Info on SDM-Rifle.

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Posted: 10/7/2006 8:13:37 PM EDT

I am new to the forum, not new to the gun industry though. I have worked for one of the larger firearms manufacturers in my state here in IL for many years. I have always enjoyed reading and learning new things from everyone here at this great web forum. "Thank God for the country we live in"! So, I have decided to make my first post after years of reading.

I have a few questions about the SDM-R (Squad Designated Marksman Rifle). I have been reading quite a bit about how it is being deployed overseas, I normally like 14.5" or 16" carbines, this platform of the AR style rifle has really put a bug in me to add another AR to my collection. I no longer have the time to assemble parts to satisfy my wants or needs in a complete rifle, So I have been looking at some of the manufactures of barrels and FF hand guards trying to come up with a package for a complete upper receiver assembly from a manufacturer to no avail! Does anyone here know of a manufacturer that makes a complete SDM-R Upper in the proper 1/8 twist barrel? Thanks for the help!

Posted: 10/7/2006 8:23:36 PM EDT

[#1]

Choose your parts and have one of the dealers (JTAC, Denny, MSTN etc.) here build it for you. Welcome to ARFCOM...

Posted: 10/7/2006 9:45:10 PM EDT

[#2]

DPMS is making a close copy... Look into that at least.

MSTN has something ludicrously close to the SDMR, so look at that.

Also, the latest special weapons has some good info on it as well.

Posted: 10/8/2006 5:36:03 AM EDT

[#3]

if i was building one, id just use a woa match service rifle barrel from adco and put a dd lite railed ff tube on. a good trigger and sling too. yeah i know its not fluted. if you called a few of the vendors in the industry section theyd have no problem putting one together for you.

Posted: 10/8/2006 6:16:01 AM EDT

[#4]

Several barrels have been used on the SDMs (Krieger, Hart, Schneider, Armalite). These have been both fluted and non-fluted and none are chrome lined. These do not use the M4 ramp extensions. Both 1:7 and 1:8 rates have been used. They all use the DD 12.0 AMU freefloat tube with the steel barrel nut. A non-folding FSB is used with set screws rather than taper pins. Standard A2 comp. Uppers are A4. Triggers have been two-stage semi only.
Steve at ADCO, Wes at MSTN, Randy at AR15barrels.com, or BMC should be able to get you whatever you need for this.

Posted: 10/8/2006 6:18:25 AM EDT

[#5]

Steve Thompson at ADCO Firearms makes a very close copy. The DPMS copy in the magazine might be functionally close, but isn't built the same nor use the same components.

www.infantryassn.com/Bugler%20issues/InfBugSp2005.pdf#search=%22infantry%20association%20USAMU%20what%20can%20they%20do%20for%20you%22

1SGA had a great series of photos in an older thread.

The last 40 weapons made in the AMU shop for Designated Marksman Mobile Training Teams started with a CMP-purchased Armalite AR with the 7/8ths inch HBAR profile stainless 1-8 barrel between the barrel nut and clamp-on front sight base. Standard optic is a TA01 ACOG on the TA-55 mount.

www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82139

Posted: 10/8/2006 6:57:01 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Steve Thompson at ADCO Firearms makes a very close copy. The DPMS copy in the magazine might be functionally close, but isn't built the same nor use the same components.

www.infantryassn.com/Bugler%20issues/InfBugSp2005.pdf#search=%22infantry%20association%20USAMU%20what%20can%20they%20do%20for%20you%22

1SGA had a great series of photos in an older thread.

The last 40 weapons made in the AMU shop for Designated Marksman Mobile Training Teams started with a CMP-purchased Armalite AR with the 7/8ths inch HBAR profile stainless 1-8 barrel between the barrel nut and clamp-on front sight base. Standard optic is a TA01 ACOG on the TA-55 mount.

www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82139

Joe, since you are new Sinsiter is from the AMU, they guys that build/train the SDM program.

Posted: 10/8/2006 9:32:36 AM EDT

[#7]

Sinister, I'd just like to thank you folks for building me a spectacular weapon to take to combat.

Joe, the SDMR is a great configuration, after carrying one for a year, I can tell you that you'll like it a lot.

Posted: 10/8/2006 1:32:00 PM EDT

[#8]

Phoebus, God Bless You. Good luck on future rotations.

The guys responsible for the DMR:

Mr. Gene Clark (Chief, Service Rifle Section, main designer),
Mr. Mark Palmer
Mr. Phil Crider
SFC Shawn Waller
SFC Chuck Gartland
SFC Rick Merrill
SFC Kevin McMahon
SSG Tom Grieve
SSG "Pookie" Haidu

Posted: 10/8/2006 2:47:33 PM EDT

[#9]

Heres the clone that most people like.

This one has a AAC M4-2000 suppressor - the real ones have A2 flash hiders.

I use a standard SS RRA NM barrel with 6 flutes and the standard pinned in place FSB.
Trust me, there are many High Master shooters with RRA rifles/uppers - the barrel is more than good enough.
I can also get the real Douglas barrels w/12 flutes. I dont think they are worth the extra money, but if you want the same thing the Army uses its an option.

Oh, and of course - Dont forget to put a Geissele trigger in your lower

Posted: 10/8/2006 3:06:30 PM EDT

[#10]

Is the front sight post visible through a magnified optic's FOV?

Just trying to figure out why the Army went with a standard fixed FSB and the USMC decided on a folding arrangement for their SAM-R.

Justin

Posted: 10/8/2006 3:09:36 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Is the front sight post visible through a magnified optic's FOV?

Just trying to figure out why the Army went with a standard fixed FSB and the USMC decided on a folding arrangement for their SAM-R.

Justin

No different than the M4 w/ACOG TA01NSN. You barely see it, and its not enough to bother you.

Posted: 10/8/2006 3:16:27 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is the front sight post visible through a magnified optic's FOV?

Just trying to figure out why the Army went with a standard fixed FSB and the USMC decided on a folding arrangement for their SAM-R.

Justin

No different than the M4 w/ACOG TA01NSN. You barely see it, and its not enough to bother you.

I imagine it's even less visible with the more powerful optics, no?

Posted: 10/8/2006 3:20:36 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

I imagine it's even less visible with the more powerful optics, no?

5X and up you cannot see anything

Posted: 10/8/2006 4:56:57 PM EDT

[#14]

On the front sight A-frame, 1) they're cheap (the rifle comes with 1), and 2) for all intents you can't see it in a scope.

Alternate choice would be something like a Yankee Hill flip-down, or a GG&G if you have a railed gas block.

A Front sight on the rail was unsatisfactory for the 3rd Ranger Battalion's SPRs.

Posted: 10/8/2006 5:13:09 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
On the front sight A-frame, 1) they're cheap (the rifle comes with 1), and 2) for all intents you can't see it in a scope.

Alternate choice would be something like a Yankee Hill flip-down, or a GG&G if you have a railed gas block.

A Front sight on the rail was unsatisfactory for the 3rd Ranger Battalion's SPRs.

i agree with them. sights go on the barrel, not handguard. i like the new style round sights anyhow; pri, troy, samson, mi. i prefer standard a2 fsb with fixed rear and eotech, but flipups with mag optics.

Posted: 10/8/2006 7:26:59 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
A Front sight on the rail was unsatisfactory for the 3rd Ranger Battalion's SPRs.

Why is that Sir; durability concerns?

Justin

Posted: 10/8/2006 7:32:56 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A Front sight on the rail was unsatisfactory for the 3rd Ranger Battalion's SPRs.

Why is that Sir; durability concerns?

Justin

More likely because putting sights on a FF rail creates some of the same problem you have with a barrel and a non-FF rail. If you change between, for example, resting on a bipod or not, your front sight will shift with the FF tube while your barrel remains in the same place.

The counter-arguement to this is that irons on something like this are just backup, so accuracy is not crucial.

Posted: 10/9/2006 7:48:07 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A Front sight on the rail was unsatisfactory for the 3rd Ranger Battalion's SPRs.

Why is that Sir; durability concerns?

Justin

More likely because putting sights on a FF rail creates some of the same problem you have with a barrel and a non-FF rail. If you change between, for example, resting on a bipod or not, your front sight will shift with the FF tube while your barrel remains in the same place.

The counter-arguement to this is that irons on something like this are just backup, so accuracy is not crucial.

I have it that way on mine and it still shoots pretty well. I don't know if there's that big of a difference. But I don't beat mine like a grunt, soooo that probably makes a difference.

These were shot with that prone and rested with those irons. (Troy rear and LMT front on the rail) It's about as good as it gets for me.

Obviously it's not great shooting, I'm sure alot of that is me. But it also wasn't match ammo. ADCOM, WWB, and 1 with BHblue 68's. Which actually shoots very well with a scope on it. Personally for me, the sight on the rail is good enough.

Posted: 10/9/2006 8:18:07 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A Front sight on the rail was unsatisfactory for the 3rd Ranger Battalion's SPRs.

Why is that Sir; durability concerns?

Justin

More likely because putting sights on a FF rail creates some of the same problem you have with a barrel and a non-FF rail. If you change between, for example, resting on a bipod or not, your front sight will shift with the FF tube while your barrel remains in the same place.

The counter-arguement to this is that irons on something like this are just backup, so accuracy is not crucial.

I have it that way on mine and it still shoots pretty well. I don't know if there's that big of a difference. But I don't beat mine like a grunt, soooo that probably makes a difference.

images1.snapfish.com/348364442%7Ffp347%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3EWSNRCG%3D3233%3A29769537nu0mrj

These were shot with that prone and rested with those irons. (Troy rear and LMT front on the rail) It's about as good as it gets for me.

images1.snapfish.com/348364442%7Ffp357%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3EWSNRCG%3D3233%3A5%3A35%3B%3B2%3Cnu0mrj

images1.snapfish.com/348364442%7Ffp347%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3EWSNRCG%3D3233%3A5%3A35%3B%3B34nu0mrj

render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup60Pn%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKxgXPPG%3F87KR6xqpxQQQ0xPlQxQoQxv8uOc5xQQQPe0ePonaPGqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPPG%7CRup6JaQ%7C/of=50,294,443

images1.snapfish.com/348364442%7Ffp353%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3EWSNRCG%3D3233%3A5%3A35%3B%3B3%3Bnu0mrj

Obviously it's not great shooting, I'm sure alot of that is me. But it also wasn't match ammo. ADCOM, WWB, and 1 with BHblue 68's. Which actually shoots very well with a scope on it. Personally for me, the sight on the rail is good enough.

I too have such a setup, and it works well enough for me

But, then, I'm not from the AMU (working on it!).

Also, remember that the problem isn't so much the opening of groups, but that a POI shift can occur between using a bipod and shooting unsupported, for example.

Posted: 10/9/2006 7:10:20 PM EDT

[#20]

Thank's for all of the great info everyone!

Posted: 10/22/2006 6:29:25 PM EDT

[#21]

Are the U.S. Marines using the same rifle?

Posted: 10/23/2006 3:31:05 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Are the U.S. Marines using the same rifle?

No, the USMC uses what they refer to as a SAM-R (Squad Advanced Marksmen - Rifle). Same concept, somewhat different execution. I personally like the Marine's version better (well the East coast version - There's an East and West coast version of the SAM-R). Do a search, both on this site and google and you will find plenty of info and pics.

Posted: 10/27/2006 3:15:50 PM EDT

[#23]

SDM rifle with a Douglas S.S match barrel works for me ----

Posted: 10/28/2006 1:49:06 PM EDT

[#24]

I think I'll go with the "the backup irons are just that, backups" argument. I'm looking at a Troy F-BUIS to go with the KAC rear BUIS I used on my Iraq tours, put them fore and aft of the ACOG I bought, and I think it'll be good. Now I just need the money from the Webley I sold to afford the upper...

Sinister, thanks to AMU for all the good work. We couldn't get ours done before we deployed, but then we DID get M14's as a consolation prize