I was in Colt M16 armorer's course today and the instructor was interrupted by a phone call.  He announced to us that Colt was being bought by General Dynamics.  Just FYI for anyone who cares (other than dupe patrol).

BW

I would not be surprised, they already own Saco Defense, maker of the M240 series and former maker of the Weatherby Mark V.

Does this company give two farts about the rights of civillains to own firearms.  
If so my opinion of Colt may rise above that of a whale turd.

No doubt....Colt who?

Yes... Colt Defense was bought by GD, this happened about a month ago...

Quoted: Does this company give two farts about the rights of civillains to own firearms.   If so my opinion of Colt may rise above that of a whale turd.hr

whatever........

No announcment on either Colt's or General Dynamics website as of yet.

Quoted: Yes... Colt Defense was bought by GD, this happened about a month ago...

Does this sale include Colt Manufacturing Company LLC too?

Great........................now GD rifles will be the original, and all others will be copies.

Yep, first it was Armalite, then COLT now General Dynamics...

Honestly who cares. Colt has been about fucking the civilians for a long time, self regulating the industry as a whole, oversized pins, sear blocks, then finally cutting civy sales altogether. I sold my Colt's just because I won't support a company that doesn't support us- simple as that.  

Quoted: Quoted: Yes... Colt Defense was bought by GD, this happened about a month ago... Does this sale include Colt Manufacturing Company LLC too?

I don't know.  I posted exactly what he told us.

did'nt take long for the bashers to come out to play

I'm just waiting to see what happens next, their politics cant be much worse than Colts

Quoted: did'nt take long for the bashers to come out to play I'm just waiting to see what happens next, their politics cant be much worse than Colts

No doubt....

[sarcasm] Oh no, now what will all the Colt-Kool-Aid drinkers do? [/sarcasm]

Quoted: I would not be surprised, they already own Saco Defense, maker of the M240 series and former maker of the Weatherby Mark V.

Not to pick nits, but the M240 series is made by FNMI in Columbia, SC.  I used to live a mile or two from the plant, and every M240, M240G, and M240D I ever saw said FNMI on the side.

IIRC SACO Defense is the current producr of  the M2 HB and M60 though.

I dont want to be part of the dupe police, but it is odd that this has been posted a few times on here in the last few weeks and went without notice or comment...

GD bought Colt Defense, they also bought the XM8 and have their eye on a few other projects and companies. GD owns a lot of companies that operate totally transparent as to the parent company relation... what is in the future? I cant say...

Quoted: [sarcasm] Oh no, now what will all the Colt-Kool-Aid drinkers do? [/sarcasm]

GD Kool-Aid?

Quoted: I sold my Colt's just because I won't support a company that doesn't support us- simple as that.

Um...they already have your money so what impact did selling your rifles really have?  Would you sell your Hummer because AM General doesn't sell to civvy's?

I will be glad when C.N.C  Colt fixes my new in the box LE6920 and sends it back to me so I can enjoy it.

I suspect this, if true, will be a good thing.  First of all, General Dynamics is a larger company that carries more clout with .gov.  Thus, they have greater freedom - if they want to - to tell .gov to kiss off on civilian sales.  Secondly, I suspect that this means that either Connecticut is going to sell its shares, or GD will have enought to make Connecticut's shares irrelevant, meaning less interference from state legislature GFWs.  

Quoted: ...Secondly, I suspect that this means that either Connecticut is going to sell its shares, or ...

CT sold it's shares a long time ago (at a loss IIRC - it screwed up the pension plan).

Quoted: Honestly who cares. Colt has been about fucking the civilians for a long time, self regulating the industry as a whole, oversized pins, sear blocks, then finally cutting civy sales altogether. I sold my Colt's just because I won't support a company that doesn't support us- simple as that.

When did Colt cut out civillian sales?

It wouldnt shock me if GD was trying to position itself to replace the M16 with some fusion of XM8 technology and Colt's military savvy. Should yield some interesting results, but FN, SIG and HK are all big sharks waiting to pounce.

With any hope the Americans will strike back with some kick ass Colt branded XM8 that makes the euros wet their pants





....and wont be sold to civilians....

Quoted: It wouldnt shock me if GD was trying to position itself to replace the M16 with some fusion of XM8 technology and Colt's military savvy. Should yield some interesting results, but FN, SIG and HK are all big sharks waiting to pounce. With any hope the Americans will strike back with some kick ass Colt branded XM8 that makes the euros wet their pants ....and wont be sold to civilians....

If you believe the rumors on this site, GD is going to buy HK next.

Quoted: Quoted: I would not be surprised, they already own Saco Defense, maker of the M240 series and former maker of the Weatherby Mark V. Not to pick nits, but the M240 series is made by FNMI in Columbia, SC.  I used to live a mile or two from the plant, and every M240, M240G, and M240D I ever saw said FNMI on the side. IIRC SACO Defense is the current producr of  the M2 HB and M60 though.

You're right, of course.  I meant to type M60 series, and for some reason fingers got ahead of brain.

Quoted: Quoted: Honestly who cares. Colt has been about fucking the civilians for a long time, self regulating the industry as a whole, oversized pins, sear blocks, then finally cutting civy sales altogether. I sold my Colt's just because I won't support a company that doesn't support us- simple as that.   When did Colt cut out civillian sales?

Back in '87!

If this is true I am wondering what the hell WON'T GD buy?  They bought our Defense Systems ( TRW ) not all that long ago.....and we had LOTS of stuff going on there.....

12-12-2005


This is straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak). Yesterday, I sent the following question to the Director of Sales and Marketing for Colt Mfg:




Hello,

My name is motown_steve. I was given your e-mail address by a user on 1911forums.com who said that you may be able to answer a couple of questions for me about Colt. As you may or may not be aware, there are some stories from credible people on AR15.com stating that Colt's policy regarding the sale of LE AR-15s is to require that Colt dealers and distributors obtain an LEO letterhead (stating that the rifle is being purchased for official use) from anyone attempting to purchase a Colt LE AR-15. Can you shed any light on this situation? Is it Colt's policy to require Colt dealers and distributors to obtain a letter on letterhead from a Law Enforcement organization stating that an LE model rifle is going to be used for official purposes before selling that rifle?  

As you probably are aware, the features that seperate the Colt LE rifles (specifically the LE6520, LE6920, LE6921 and AR6721) from the rifles manufactured by Colt Mfg. are no longer prohibited by federal law. This makes these rifles highly desirable by citizen firearms enthusiasts and shooters. I look forward to your response.

With Regards,

motown_steve




Here is the response that I got from





When the ban was in effect we did have that policy, with the sunset of the band Colt no longer requires that practice. Colt has elected not to retro the MT product line. The LE products are still being sold to our LE distributors, they may have there own policy in place but it is not driven by Colt.

Mark Roberts
Director, Sales and Marketing
Colt's Manufacturing Co. LLC




I officially take back all of the nasty things that I've ever said about Colt, and I am going to start buying their ARs.

For once, I don't mind being proven wrong.

Y'all might want to tack this thread to prevent any future misconceptions.



                                                                                                 

                                           

Colt's has been bought and sold many times.  I don't see this recent sale as being noteworthy.  Do I need to consult the crystal ball?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Honestly who cares. Colt has been about fucking the civilians for a long time, self regulating the industry as a whole, oversized pins, sear blocks, then finally cutting civy sales altogether. I sold my Colt's just because I won't support a company that doesn't support us- simple as that.   When did Colt cut out civillian sales? Back in '87!

It was actually 1989.  Sales resumed the next year.

Quoted: Colt's has been bought and sold many times.  I don't see this recent sale as being noteworthy.  Do I need to consult the crystal ball?

I can you tell me when I will find a great deal on a Colt?

Does that mean they will own Diemaco too..didnt colt aquire them about 4 months ago?

Quoted: Does that mean they will own Diemaco too..didnt colt aquire them about 4 months ago?

longer than that... Diemaco is Colt Canada and the people that I know there told me "we are part of Colt, we will go whever Colt goes" -- make from that what like.

Quoted: Quoted: It wouldn't shock me if GD was trying to position itself to replace the M16 with some fusion of XM8 technology and Colt's military savvy. Should yield some interesting results, but FN, SIG and HK are all big sharks waiting to pounce. With any hope the Americans will strike back with some kick ass Colt branded XM8 that makes the euros wet their pants ....and wont be sold to civilians.... If you believe the rumors on this site, GD is going to buy HK next.

Colt made a genuine effort to purchase Heckler & Koch not long ago and was unsuccessful.


As others have offered, I believe the General Dynamics purchase will be a good thing.

They will be able to invest heavily in R&D, and advance related military products with Colts history and experience.

As for the sophomoric Colt bashing......... . Its gotten old

Colt never stopped civilian sales. For many years now, they have been the primary target for the anti-gunner's litigation, and held the point in the war against gun-grabbers on our behalf.

If it weren't for Colt- there would be no AR15, or M16, or AR15.com for that matter.

Found this....

www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/mk47.htm

A ways down the page....

"On 21 May 2000 General Dynamics (NYSE:GD) and New Colt Holding Corp. announced that they have entered into a definitive agreement for General Dynamics to acquire Saco Defense Corp., a subsidiary of New Colt Holding Corp., for an undisclosed amount of cash. Saco Defense, based in Saco, Maine, had 225 employees. Upon completion of the acquisition, Saco Defense became part of General Dynamics Armament Systems, and will be known by that name."

"The company formerly called Saco Defense operated in Saco, Maine, for at least 30 years. Saco Defense is one of the world's leading producers of small and medium caliber machine guns, cannon barrels and complementary equipment. It is the sole producer of the MK-19 40mm automatic grenade launcher for the US armed forces, and by 2000 was in the final stages of development of a next-generation automatic grenade launcher called Striker. Saco Defense products are in the inventories of more than 40 countries; they complement the high-rate-of-fire Gatling-type weapons produced by General Dynamics Armament Systems."

So thier buying intelectual properties of the rifle FN makes.  Do you really care who gets the dividends check?

[deep breath]  I want to help shed a bit of factual light on the  "Colt Sux" and "I hate Colt because Colt Politics Suck" argument - if that is possible.

Colt is the target of the Brady campaign, and anti-gunners fights, and I offer the following as evidence of this:

From Worldpolicy.org, a well financed anti-gun, gun control, left wing, liberal group:

....... In a move to distance itself from the lawsuits and blame for gun violence, Colt bid for competitor Heckler and Koch, and later FN Herstal, proposing that the "combined company would be in a strong position to compete for military rifles and grenade launchers in the U.S. and Europe." When those deals fell through, Colt purchased Saco Defense, maker of grenade launchers and light military weapons, and Ultra Light Weapons, a small West Virginia maker of expensive hunting rifles. Colt sold Saco to General Dynamics in May 2000 for an undisclosed sum of cash, but the company is continuing to market to the military. One of Colt’s new weapons is the M4A1 Carbine with accessory kit, for U.S. Special Operations Forces, "designed to enhance [their] lethality." The fact that Colt no longer produces handguns did not exclude it from this latest round of suits. This summer, Attorney General Eliot Spitzer made New York the first state to sue the firearms industry, following on the heels of more than 30 city and country lawsuits. Spitzer offered a carrot along with the stick in the form of a "Code of Conduct" for the gun industry. Most refused, including Colt, Beretta, Sturm Ruger and Co, and responded with their own suit, charging that "self appointed gun control politicians" were trampling the U.S. constitution in their effort to "legislate gun control by economic sanction." They claimed that "if these politicians are not stopped, our democracy will be undermined.".......................

Note the section that quotes Eliot Spitzer. For those who do not know Eliot Spitzer, get to know him. He is our enemy. He is a vehemently anti-gun New York State Attorney, who targets the likes of Colt and other gun makers - not to mention his political foes and law abiding types like Dick Grasso because he makes too much money, but thats for another day....

Spitzer clearly targeted Colt and others in the gun industry, and threatened them with "out of business sized litigation over liability issues in gun ownership

Well Colt wasn't backing down. They instead, and in an effort to survive, made changes to the AR15 - for example - to make some gesture to the government that they were 'good partners" and would do their part in making the AR a safer product.

In the end, it didn't matter (sear blocks, larger FC parts, bayo lugs, etc) since we could still have the AR and enjoy it

People don't stop to think that when the government targets your company - and you need the government to carry your business (see M4 M16), then you must do something and maintain your civilian following at the same time.

so next time you think of bashing Colt remember they took one for the team, and the team is anyone who enjoys our gun ownership rights, and the right to own the AR15.


[sigh]

Quoted: Quoted: Honestly who cares. Colt has been about fucking the civilians for a long time, self regulating the industry as a whole, oversized pins, sear blocks, then finally cutting civy sales altogether. I sold my Colt's just because I won't support a company that doesn't support us- simple as that.   When did Colt cut out civillian sales?

Yeah....I'd like to know the answer to that one too.

The issue was about civilian sales of "law enforcement" targeted rifles-those that were "no ban" during the ban.

I'm concerned about General Dynamics owning ANYTHING.  They own THE company that builds U.S. military submarines.  They used to build F-16s.  They own THE company that builds U.S. tanks.  Now they own the company that owns all the intellectual property on the AR?  Unless their policies are pretty "hands off," I can see this getting pretty screwy for the Colt product lines.

Maybe they only bought "Colt Defense?"  That would make a lot of sense...

Tag.

WIZZO