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Posted: 10/10/2005 9:56:35 AM EDT

Anyone out there with experience with this rifle? Specifically the rate of twist in it's barrel. I took it to the range sunday for a first time outing and had trouble with accuracy. The gun definitely didn't like heavy bullets and even spit XM193PD stuff all over the paper at 50 yards. As a last ditch attempt I ran some PMC silver line 52 gr. match ammo thru it before I threw it over the hill and it finally started printing decent groups. This would point to a slow rate of twist but the gun didn't like the Lake City 55 gr stuff so what gives? BTW. groups got progressively worse as I went to heavier ammo. I couldn't even shoot 68 Gr match ammo at 100 yds. It didn't even pattern on the target and at 50 yards it was around12-15" spread. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Posted: 10/10/2005 10:51:12 AM EDT

[#1]

Every DR200 I ever saw had a twist of 1 in 12 inches. This should shoot anything up to around 62 grains with ease. The one I had was particularly fond of Federal 52gr JHP. The XM193 and similar should shoot just fine.

Posted: 10/10/2005 10:57:57 AM EDT

[#2]

.

Posted: 10/10/2005 12:24:21 PM EDT

[#3]

Are you the original owner? I'm wondering how many rounds have been down the barrel. Can you evaluate the throat?

My K2 loves M193, shoots it as well as my 1:12 Colt barrels. As for 62s, yes it should handle some of them. It will do best with flatbased bullets that have longish bearing surfaces. Wolf 62s seem to do OK, or even better than the 55s, in 1:12. Expecting good results with M855 in a 1:12 will be an exercise in frustration.

Sam

Posted: 10/10/2005 12:33:47 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Are you the original owner? I'm wondering how many rounds have been down the barrel. Can you evaluate the throat?

My K2 loves M193, shoots it as well as my 1:12 Colt barrels. As for 62s, yes it should handle some of them. It will do best with flatbased bullets that have longish bearing surfaces. Wolf 62s seem to do OK, or even better than the 55s, in 1:12. Expecting good results with M855 in a 1:12 will be an exercise in frustration.

Sam

I always wondered, which do you prefer, your AR-15 or the K2?

Thanks Sam.

Regards,

Justin

Posted: 10/10/2005 12:42:23 PM EDT

[#5]

If you will remember, just prior to Desert Storm they had to scramble to replace the M16A1's (1:12 twist) that many National Guard were equipped with. They were keyholing M855.

So, it won't handle 62 gr on up. There are plenty of 45 gr - 55 gr bullets to experiment with. And it is still a rugged rifle.

Posted: 10/10/2005 12:47:32 PM EDT

[#6]

I had one, it would shoot Win. 45 gr. varmint loads very well.Also, 52 gr. Match, it was like new, i traded it off, never shot it much, but it was easy to clean, just swab the bore, you were done.

Posted: 10/10/2005 1:27:36 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

I always wondered, which do you prefer, your AR-15 or the K2?

Thanks Sam.

Regards,

Justin

Well, the deck is stacked in favor of the AR. There's been little or no development of the Daewoo platform to match the AR. The Koreans like it, but it's something of an orphan as far as US citizens are concerned. Thus, the only fair comparison is between, say, a K2 and an SP1. On those limited terms, I'd take the K2 every time. Reasons: fixed ejector, and an op-rod gas system. The other differences are minor. Both are quality firearms.

But the negatives prevail in all but the world of "what if". Parts for Daewoos are pretty much unobtainium, though once in awhile you can find stuff on Ebay. Daewoos are not fragile, but sooner or later barrels get shot out, and bolt lugs can break. I suppose one can deal with parts issues if possessed of the requisite machine tools and skill.

Sam

Posted: 10/10/2005 4:37:08 PM EDT

[#8]

can I change the stock of a DR200 to a Ar type collapsible? ?w pistol grip... if so how would i do that? Thanks-

Posted: 10/10/2005 4:40:35 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
can I change the stock of a DR200 to a Ar type collapsible? ?w pistol grip... if so how would i do that? Thanks-

I doubt it can be done.

And I suspect it would look like a monkey and the proverbial football.

TRG

Posted: 10/10/2005 5:07:48 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I always wondered, which do you prefer, your AR-15 or the K2?

Thanks Sam.

Regards,

Justin

Well, the deck is stacked in favor of the AR. There's been little or no development of the Daewoo platform to match the AR. The Koreans like it, but it's something of an orphan as far as US citizens are concerned. Thus, the only fair comparison is between, say, a K2 and an SP1. On those limited terms, I'd take the K2 every time. Reasons: fixed ejector, and an op-rod gas system. The other differences are minor. Both are quality firearms.

But the negatives prevail in all but the world of "what if". Parts for Daewoos are pretty much unobtainium, though once in awhile you can find stuff on Ebay. Daewoos are not fragile, but sooner or later barrels get shot out, and bolt lugs can break. I suppose one can deal with parts issues if possessed of the requisite machine tools and skill.

Sam

So if the accesory development of the K2 was on par with the AR-15, then you'd prefer the K2?

Posted: 10/10/2005 5:09:19 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

I always wondered, which do you prefer, your AR-15 or the K2?

Thanks Sam.

Regards,

Justin

Well, the deck is stacked in favor of the AR. There's been little or no development of the Daewoo platform to match the AR. The Koreans like it, but it's something of an orphan as far as US citizens are concerned. Thus, the only fair comparison is between, say, a K2 and an SP1. On those limited terms, I'd take the K2 every time. Reasons: fixed ejector, and an op-rod gas system. The other differences are minor. Both are quality firearms.

But the negatives prevail in all but the world of "what if". Parts for Daewoos are pretty much unobtainium, though once in awhile you can find stuff on Ebay. Daewoos are not fragile, but sooner or later barrels get shot out, and bolt lugs can break. I suppose one can deal with parts issues if possessed of the requisite machine tools and skill.

Sam

So if the accesory development of the K2 was on par with the AR-15, then you'd prefer the K2?

I wouldn't. I own a DR-200 and several ARs.

I never reach for the DR200. It is a safe-queen nowadays.

TRG

Posted: 10/10/2005 5:44:25 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
can I change the stock of a DR200 to a Ar type collapsible? ?w pistol grip... if so how would i do that? Thanks-

I doubt it can be done.

And I suspect it would look like a monkey and the proverbial football.

TRG

Ace (www.riflestocks.com) makes an adapter.

costs $30 and attaches to the rear of the receiver

shows their $20 adapter to fit an AR stock onto the Daewoo receiver adapter.

Note that in order to keep it legal you'll also have to replace the grip and trigger group with US made parts and only use US made magazines. Ace has the parts you need but I don't know if htey package them with the above stock adapters or if they even still make the adapters.

is the Ace kit that includes the grip, trigger parts and a stock that is similar to the original Daewoo stock. I've got a (much) older version from them and it is a well made stock that is much better than the thumbhole.

There was another company that made a really nice adapter but very few were made. It had a large L shape that allowed an AR stock to be attached to the rear then came all the way down to the trigger group and used an AR pistol grip. I saw one on an online auction site a couple years ago and didn't win the auction.

Posted: 10/10/2005 6:21:56 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

I always wondered, which do you prefer, your AR-15 or the K2?

Thanks Sam.

Regards,

Justin

Well, the deck is stacked in favor of the AR. There's been little or no development of the Daewoo platform to match the AR. The Koreans like it, but it's something of an orphan as far as US citizens are concerned. Thus, the only fair comparison is between, say, a K2 and an SP1. On those limited terms, I'd take the K2 every time. Reasons: fixed ejector, and an op-rod gas system. The other differences are minor. Both are quality firearms.

But the negatives prevail in all but the world of "what if". Parts for Daewoos are pretty much unobtainium, though once in awhile you can find stuff on Ebay. Daewoos are not fragile, but sooner or later barrels get shot out, and bolt lugs can break. I suppose one can deal with parts issues if possessed of the requisite machine tools and skill.

Sam

So if the accesory development of the K2 was on par with the AR-15, then you'd prefer the K2?

I wouldn't. I own a DR-200 and several ARs.

I never reach for the DR200. It is a safe-queen nowadays.

TRG

Thanks TRG.

Care to elaborate on why?

Posted: 10/11/2005 5:41:33 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

I always wondered, which do you prefer, your AR-15 or the K2?

Thanks Sam.

Regards,

Justin

Well, the deck is stacked in favor of the AR. There's been little or no development of the Daewoo platform to match the AR. The Koreans like it, but it's something of an orphan as far as US citizens are concerned. Thus, the only fair comparison is between, say, a K2 and an SP1. On those limited terms, I'd take the K2 every time. Reasons: fixed ejector, and an op-rod gas system. The other differences are minor. Both are quality firearms.

But the negatives prevail in all but the world of "what if". Parts for Daewoos are pretty much unobtainium, though once in awhile you can find stuff on Ebay. Daewoos are not fragile, but sooner or later barrels get shot out, and bolt lugs can break. I suppose one can deal with parts issues if possessed of the requisite machine tools and skill.

Sam

So if the accesory development of the K2 was on par with the AR-15, then you'd prefer the K2?

I wouldn't. I own a DR-200 and several ARs.

I never reach for the DR200. It is a safe-queen nowadays.

TRG

Thanks TRG.

Care to elaborate on why?

It's heavy. The safety requires moving your hand and positioning the rifle off-target. With the AR, the Safety is just a flick of the thumb to release.

I like my Dr200 for its creative use of a gas piston. It is reliable and accurate, but it just does not have the 'user friendly' features of my ARs.

I am not *real* concerned about replacement parts, but... it is a small factor in my decision to grab an AR, instead of the DR.

I have a 10.5" Ar15 that is so damn handy, that everything else just gets left in the safe these days.

TRG

Posted: 10/11/2005 8:13:53 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

I always wondered, which do you prefer, your AR-15 or the K2?

Thanks Sam.

Regards,

Justin

Well, the deck is stacked in favor of the AR. There's been little or no development of the Daewoo platform to match the AR. The Koreans like it, but it's something of an orphan as far as US citizens are concerned. Thus, the only fair comparison is between, say, a K2 and an SP1. On those limited terms, I'd take the K2 every time. Reasons: fixed ejector, and an op-rod gas system. The other differences are minor. Both are quality firearms.

But the negatives prevail in all but the world of "what if". Parts for Daewoos are pretty much unobtainium, though once in awhile you can find stuff on Ebay. Daewoos are not fragile, but sooner or later barrels get shot out, and bolt lugs can break. I suppose one can deal with parts issues if possessed of the requisite machine tools and skill.

Sam

So if the accesory development of the K2 was on par with the AR-15, then you'd prefer the K2?

I wouldn't. I own a DR-200 and several ARs.

I never reach for the DR200. It is a safe-queen nowadays.

TRG

Thanks TRG.

Care to elaborate on why?

It's heavy. The safety requires moving your hand and positioning the rifle off-target. With the AR, the Safety is just a flick of the thumb to release.

I like my Dr200 for its creative use of a gas piston. It is reliable and accurate, but it just does not have the 'user friendly' features of my ARs.

I am not *real* concerned about replacement parts, but... it is a small factor in my decision to grab an AR, instead of the DR.

I have a 10.5" Ar15 that is so damn handy, that everything else just gets left in the safe these days.

TRG

Understood. Thanks TRG.

Regards,

Justin

Posted: 10/11/2005 8:21:07 AM EDT

[#16]

Why do we have a Daewoo DR200 thread in the AR Discussion Forum?

Posted: 10/11/2005 9:13:17 AM EDT

[#17]

Samuel_Hoggson,
No I'm not the origional owner. As a matter of fact I have no info on the history of the rifle. I did go over the rifle looking for problems as I have never shot any rifle that performed that poorly. I didn't see any marks in the bore or wear on the muzzle. Overall the gun is in very good condition with little signs of use in general.

Here's the kicker guys....while it didn't like the Lake City 55 gr. stuff, it did shoot some PCA 55 gr. FMJ loads well. Roughly 1-1/2" groups. And the 52 gr match stuff produced one 100 yd 3 shot group so small I covered the holes completely with a dime. So I don't think the barrel is damaged. I just can't believe it wouldn't run with military issue 55 gr. stuff. Isn't that what the rifle was designed to shoot? Could it be the chamber configuration (.223 vs. 5.56)? Would 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber cause poor accuracy?

Posted: 10/11/2005 2:29:27 PM EDT

[#18]

Scheirere, it's reassuring that you can get at least one 55 gr fmj load to shoot well. This suggests that the barrel is not toast. Do not have any ideas as to why you can't get at least decent accuracy with the LC. Again, mine likes SA, Norinco, whatever in 55s.

Cityslicker, it's a very tough question. We're all biased b/c we have seen the AR develop. We even have several pistons systems. But none of us have any idea how perceived problems with the Daewoo might have been addressed. Controls? Maybe they could have been refined. Then again, consider the success of the G3. Weight? Dunno, I think 20" A2s are too heavy. My 16s with 11.5s feel real nice, though.

That's the nice thing about ARs: if you don't like some configuration, you can change it. I'm not selling my K2, though.

Sam

Posted: 10/11/2005 5:01:11 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Why do we have a Daewoo DR200 thread in the AR Discussion Forum?

We are comparing it to the AR and AR type features, owned by AR-15 users, supporting ar15.com.... so don't worry about it....

Posted: 10/11/2005 6:52:53 PM EDT

[#20]

I don't own a DR200 so I can't say anything on the quality or operation of one. The one suggestion I do have is to check for excessive buildup of copper fouling in the barrel. If the gun shows little usage it's possible that it has a buildup and the good groups that you did get were more luck than anything. Maybe try some "Sweets 7.62" bore cleaner to break down any fouling and give it another try. I've had similar experiances with ar barrels, even chromed ones. The minor differences in the bullet dimensions was enough to give erratic performance. Once the barrels had been cleaned and lubed a few times the bores smoothed out and the guns setteled down and started shooting most everything I fed them.
It might be worth a shot.... (no pun intended).

Posted: 10/11/2005 8:07:40 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Why do we have a Daewoo DR200 thread in the AR Discussion Forum?

You're right, I vote that we move it into the Religion Forum.

Posted: 10/12/2005 11:31:34 AM EDT

[#22]

Sam,
I agree...it's reassuring that the gun will shoot something well! Unfortunately it didn't run with the polymer stuff, jamming itself up tight. So I ended up turning off the gas system and manually cycled the bolt for each shot. PITA but at least it shot resonable groups. The PMC stuff ran fine and as I said made some really pretty groups. I recently went down to the local Gander Mountain and raided their ammo section for some of just about every brand of cheap to moderately priced light weight ammo (45-55 gr stuff). $112 later and I have some options to try this saturday! I'll keep you posted.

1jackel,
The night before I shot the rifle I ran a patch with some Butch's bore-shine through the bore and it came out deep green. So I proceeded to hit it with some Sweets and it was definitely dirty. Came clean pretty quickly though. I'll have to do a couple more shoot/clean cycles to see if it helps. Maybe the gun only had a few rounds through it and the barrel hadn't broken in yet?

Thanks all for the input and I'll keep you posted.

Posted: 10/12/2005 8:31:10 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Sam,
I agree...it's reassuring that the gun will shoot something well! Unfortunately it didn't run with the polymer stuff, jamming itself up tight. So I ended up turning off the gas system and manually cycled the bolt for each shot. PITA but at least it shot resonable groups.

Most ARs don't shoot the polymer stuff very well either.

Posted: 10/17/2005 6:58:26 AM EDT

[#24]

Well after spending a few hours on the range saturday I have mixed results to report. On the good side, I didn't have any outrageous groups with the worst being about 3" (Wolf 55gr fmj). But nothing really good either. The best being Black Hills 52 gr match and the 55 gr. soft points. Both going about 1". Overall, most groups went 1-1/2" to 2". Nothing to write home about but what one would expect from a service rifle. It was rather gusty so that may have contributed to things as I would get some groups with a couple close to each other then a flyer that opened things up. Overall I'm a bit happier as it seemed to like the XM193 today. Not really that accurate at about 2-1/2 to 3" but nothing like before. Perhaps it needed some shooting/cleaning cycles to settle down?

Posted: 10/17/2005 7:16:00 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Well after spending a few hours on the range saturday I have mixed results to report. On the good side, I didn't have any outrageous groups with the worst being about 3" (Wolf 55gr fmj). But nothing really good either. The best being Black Hills 52 gr match and the 55 gr. soft points. Both going about 1". Overall, most groups went 1-1/2" to 2". Nothing to write home about but what one would expect from a service rifle. It was rather gusty so that may have contributed to things as I would get some groups with a couple close to each other then a flyer that opened things up. Overall I'm a bit happier as it seemed to like the XM193 today. Not really that accurate at about 2-1/2 to 3" but nothing like before. Perhaps it needed some shooting/cleaning cycles to settle down?

1" groups from a stok DR200 is pretty good. Most are about 1.5"-2"

Mine is a great shooter, but, the gas-piston system seems to affect accuracy. As the barrel heats up, the point of impact begins to crawl upwards. Very distinct pattern of impacts climbing the target after a several 30 round mags.

TRG

Posted: 10/17/2005 12:01:09 PM EDT

[#26]

I think you're doing fine, too. It's a service rifle, not an accuracy build. Mine does no better. And 1 MOA in a breeze is darn good.

Sam

Posted: 10/17/2005 1:28:29 PM EDT

[#27]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Pretty good for what it was intended to do. It was kinda fun going back to the iron sights and shooting torso targets at various ranges which is within it's capabilities out to a few hundred yards. But still, I'm used to the accuracy that I get with my AR's. Even the service rifles are fantastic when fed top quality ammo. But again, I'll just use it for what it's capable of .

Posted: 10/17/2005 4:09:36 PM EDT

[#28]

Geez, all I can say is that when the SHTF I want you on my side. I have never been able to get 3MOA with Wolf poly through any chrome-lined Colt upper......or the Daewoo. And using irons? I get 4 to 5 MOA with the 55s..........and am quite happy with that. I can get 2.5 to 3 MOA with SA M193...........and am quite happy.

And if I could shoot 1 MOA with irons through any gun...........any gun............well, I did it once with a M54 in 30-06. Still have the target somewhere. I was alot younger. To do it at my age would be better than sex. Heck, it was better than sex even then.

"Pretty good".........I'd say for just about any purpose. Dare I ask what you consider "good" performance with irons in your ARs?

All kidding aside, I think we can safely say there is absolutely nothing wrong with your Daewoo!

Sam

Posted: 10/17/2005 5:49:44 PM EDT

[#29]

Sam,
Sorry to mis-lead you but the results I listed were not with iron sights! Those were best condition results with a high powered target scope from sand bags. I just wanted to determine the rifles potential. I didn't shoot the gun to obtain particular group sizes with the irons. Merely fun shooting after I did the testing with scope on. With iron sights I probably couldn't do much better than 3" with good ammo either. Unless we are talking target type iron sights with specific 100 yrd. rifle targets.

Posted: 10/17/2005 6:13:48 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Sam,
Sorry to mis-lead you but the results I listed were not with iron sights! Those were best condition results with a high powered target scope from sand bags. I just wanted to determine the rifles potential. I didn't shoot the gun to obtain particular group sizes with the irons. Merely fun shooting after I did the testing with scope on. With iron sights I probably couldn't do much better than 3" with good ammo either. Unless we are talking target type iron sights with specific 100 yrd. rifle targets.

Well, a sandbagged gun, of course is going to affect harmonics.

Still 1-2 MOA is about average for a DR200.

TRG

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