User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 10:11:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Keep It Simple. You won't regret that!
I like a basic M4 carbean with a weapon mounted light of some sort. I use the M3 light rail from GG&G. Iron sights only for me. And an Israeli sling to finish it off. I hate 3 points slings they are too limiting. The Israeli sling offers the same method of carry, but with versitility of the two point attachment. Simple is good in these classes. w00t! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 10:16:50 AM EDT
[#2]
You're going to Blackwater next month and you're going to try to buy the carbine now? There's a pretty nasty backlog on most AR stuff.
Assuming you can find it I agree that an M4 type carbine from one of the big name manufacturers is the way to go. In addition to a weapon light I'd put either an aimpoint or eothingie on it. edit I'd get the thing and start shooting and make sure it works properly If you already have an AR that you know works I'd take that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 10:20:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Just buy basic now - no matter what you think you want now, you'll probably leave the course with a different configuration.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 10:35:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Out of the box, Colt LE6920.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 10:37:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Blackwater also has a complete Pro-Shop on site. If there is something you need for or during the class, there is a likely chance the Pro-Shop will have it.
Keep us posted on the class and what you gained from the experience. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 11:33:51 AM EDT
[#6]
+1 It's lighter than an HBAR, customizable with the flattop, comes with the carry handle (learn to use the irons for now), and comes from the company that makes the most reliable-out-of-the-box ARs. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 11:34:58 AM EDT
[#7]
My primary defensive carbines were "born" as a result of my reality being shattered at my very first carbine class. I came out of that first class not only a more capable shooter, but also with a better understanding that I only know a fraction as much as I think I do.
If you have the option, get a basic carbine (or two preferably) and bring it. The Blackwater crew will help you outfit your rifle appropriately for your mission parameters and abilities. Whatever you end up buying put a few cases of ammo through it before you take the class to make sure it's reliable-especially when hot. There is nothing worse than troubleshooting on the ready line, particularly when you're paying good money for instruction. My defensive guns are a pretty low tech compared to most. I ditched my adjustable triggers and resisted the urge to freefloat. Simple is good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 11:46:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Same here. The only gun more simple than mine was the instructors. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 12:06:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Damn! 5 days?! You may want an AK after all that!! or Golf clubs!...j/k That would be an awesome experience, and I for one, hope you share the experience with us afterward. Nice gift...............if there is a connection to this, and the BD you mentioned |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 12:43:01 PM EDT
[#10]
+1 colt 6920. I have a 6920HB and love it!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 12:48:30 PM EDT
[#11]
KISS is definitely the best way to go right now. I totally agree with markm: get an Israeli sling for your first. Here's a link to DSG Arms; they're great to deal with and sell a ton of Israeli slings.
After the class you'll have a better idea if you want a magnified optic (like an ACOG) or an Aimpoint/EOTech, and if you want to hang a vertical foregrip on it, plus if you want to free float the front or go with simpler solutions (aka, my miserly way). Best of luck with all. Enjoy your class and be sure to give us a full report when you get back! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 3:32:27 PM EDT
[#12]
This is precisely why I ended up with two first line defensive carbines. The instructors were big on extolling the virtues of not only the Aimpoint/EOTech, but also for low magnification optics for longer distances. Oddly enough most of the instructors didn't care for the 2x Aimpoint. I asked if it would be a decent compromise between an unmagnified Aimpoint and an ACOG. The consensus was that it was a good idea in concept, but Aimpoint really screwed the pooch in the execution. I was ready to buy one, but after hearing the chorus of negativity I didn't. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2005 4:32:32 PM EDT
[#13]
+1 on keeping it simple--less dohickies to break on you
i would get a 14.5in +perm phantom m4 bbl M4 type w/ an A3 upper--BUSHMASTER stock rifle or get an upper and put it on a lower (cmmg, lmt uppers are nice for the price) good optics (aimpoint), perhaps a tac light (surefire), BUIS backup sights, and a good sling would help out too |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 6:31:05 AM EDT
[#15]
How simple and low tech are we talking? I've not gone to a class or to war, but I do have an ongoing debate with a few guys who like to hang all kinds of stuff on their guns. My real world experience with stuff in general is that anything that sticks out will catch, bang, snag, break, bump, clang, poke and/or rattle. The more things you have the more clanging, banging, snagging, bumping, catching, poking your stuff will be doing. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 6:53:56 AM EDT
[#16]
This is my non-professional interpretation of simple:  Every shooter has a different interpretation of what they need, and some things that work for me are despised by others. My carbines with optics are more complicated than the rifle above, but they still lack the FF forends etc sometimes found on other peoples 'ideal' defensive carbines.  I'm certainly not knocking FF forends, vertical foregrips etc-there are scores of people here who use them on their fighting carbines. For what I use/need my rifles for they aren't necessary. While they aren't for me-that doesn't mean that they don't enhance the capabilities of someone elses weapons. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 10:02:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for all your suggestions. Looks like the resounding opinion is to get somthing stock without optics take the class and than decide. I am leaning towards the Stag Arms 2l (its aleft handed setup) would anyone caution me against that?
Thanks again for everyones advice. I will be sure to take some digital photos and let the group know about the class. Regards, John |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 10:16:31 AM EDT
[#18]
All these accessories should be banned 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 10:18:30 AM EDT
[#19]
All the lefties in the Army and Marines shoot with regular M16s. While the Stag may work great, I would not buy a leftie eject AR this close to the class.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 10:22:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Shoot a basic AR now.....buy accessories later.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 10:24:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Take a drive to Virginia Arms in Manassas and buy a Bushy M4
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 10:28:20 AM EDT
[#22]
The number one reason for problems/failures I saw at Blackwater was due to brand new, unproven equipment.
Get yourself a Colt, Bushmaster, RRA or Armalite...new in box and get at least 1000-2000 rounds through it before you show up. Get your iron sights and optic (if you have one) sighted in and make sure you have 12-15 proven mags to take with you. If anything should go wrong while you are there Blackwater will have everything you'll need and their armorer is one of if not the best in the country. Just make sure you get a carbine ASAP and get some rounds through it first! I'd try these to places first as they seem to have carbines in stock and can get one out to you ASAP. ADCO Firearms Eagle Firearms |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 10:30:05 AM EDT
[#23]
.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 10:36:50 AM EDT
[#24]
3 point slings are limiting??? How so??? ikold I agree keep it simple. You don't need a ton of crap hanging off the rifle. A light and a vert fwd grip are nice to have, but no need to go overboard. I'd take a dot site over plain irons, and a low poer variable over the dot or irons, but that like pretty much everything else is personal preferance. Being that you are new to the AR i'd say keep it as simple as possible and worry about learning to use it first over the cool factor stuff. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 1:33:05 PM EDT
[#25]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 1:33:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Wow- this kid has his priorities straight!! I agree on the simple setup, yet I would outfit the carbine with stuff which makes it more ambi- a Norgon Ambi Mag Catch and an ambi safety. This way you can concentrate on the class and are not handicapped by being a lefty. No optics may be fine, but for a 5day class, I would at least try to borrow an optic for one or two days to get to know the difference. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 1:36:27 PM EDT
[#27]
hard to argue with that........ 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 6:56:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Totally. I shoot long arms lefty (I'm right-handed, but left-eyed), and I shoot a standard setup Bushie and Colt, w/o any ambi-dohickies and I've never felt "left behind". (pun intended)  The M-16/AR-15 is so well-designed, IMO, it's already setup as an ambidextrous weapon right out of the box.Unless someone is extremely left-side biased, I don't see a need for purchasing the Stag Arms leftie model. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 7:09:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Words to live by. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2005 7:22:17 PM EDT
[#30]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2005 3:49:29 AM EDT
[#31]
ikold - I see several people here mentioning weapon lights. Check with BW first but you may not need to spend the money on a light right now...it will depend on what class you're taking.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2005 4:37:20 AM EDT
[#32]
Well.....mine is'nt the simplest or the most "pimped" out but it works fine for me.
The only thing I'm considering to add to this is a good light and mount.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2005 4:56:39 AM EDT
[#33]
.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2005 5:54:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Colt LE6920 or Bushmaster M4A3 with 14.5" barrel and permanently attached Phantom 5c1 + Hogue grip (you can have your FFL dealer order this setup directly from Bushmaster).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2005 8:25:11 AM EDT
[#35]
John - Listen to USMC03. He knows whereof he speaks.
And apply the same principles to your handgun. You are taking a handgun., right? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2005 5:06:28 AM EDT
[#36]
.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2005 5:18:10 AM EDT
[#37]
I'm not so sure I would take a 14.5" carbine back to Blackwater. For one, a 16" is only giving up an inch in overall length to a 14.5 w/perm Phantom and second, those of us with 14.5s had a harder time knocking down some of the man sized poppers. We had to make direct head shots and get them rocking in order to get them down. The guys with 16" carbines had a little easier of a time and a couple with 20" rifles had no problems what so ever. I love my little 14.5" carbines but the 16" barrels are starting to make a little more sense. Of course Shivan with his .458 had no problems getting them down with the first shot 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2005 6:06:44 AM EDT
[#38]
USMC03 Thank you for all your advice I appreciate your lending your expertise.
It sounds like I should get a right handed setup and not mess with the Stag Arms leftie setup, and that I should go with either Colt, RRA, or Bushmaster in an M4 with 16" chrome barrel, tactical stock, and USGI mags, as for slings I already placed an order for the sling that someone in this thread had posted about. What does the group think of the RRA M4 Entry tactical (or their Government model?), someone at a shop had mentioned the Bushmaster Carbon 15, what are you thoughts? As for pistols, I have a Kimber Custom II with ambi safety in .45. a Glock 17 or a CZ in 9mm. Not sure which to take. Thoughts? What is the best holster for the pistol? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2005 6:56:38 AM EDT
[#39]
If you are wearing a vest, probably a Safariland 6004. If not, what do you have that you have trained with? Have you had any training with a handgun? If not, do you have a preference on which you would use if you were in a fight. Think: Train the way you think you would fight. We just replaced two 6004's for Glocks with the model for a Glock/M3 light because we put SF X200's on two Glocks. YMMV. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2005 12:25:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Good CQB weapon = simple + light + compact: Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol turned SBR.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2005 3:32:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Take the Glock or the Kimber. Unless you are already VERY handy with the Kimber, then take the Glock. It will be dead on reliable and simple to function and clean. As for holsters go with a Safariland as mentioned above and PRACTICE the draw over and over again. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2005 6:44:19 PM EDT
[#42]
.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2005 2:50:42 AM EDT
[#43]
Read this. Read it again. It is very good counsel. Better than what I wrote, even. Safariland makes a Universal Belt Loop on which you can mount the holster from the 6004. Pick which one works better but have both available in the tool box. BTW, Jeff, my first classes were with Yeager. (After Jeff's excellent 2001 posts on why if we could spend $300 on an accessory we SHOULD spend $300 on training.) If it were not for that, I today would not own any Glock 19's (only one worth having, IMVHO). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2005 3:35:39 AM EDT
[#44]
just buy some bushmaster 14.5 barrel.. throw it on a CMT upper.... stick with normal handguards for now.... get a flatop... get an aimpoint... and get some type of collapsing stock
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2005 4:52:38 AM EDT
[#45]
.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2005 5:09:14 AM EDT
[#46]
My iron sights work just fine if I don't have time to turn on my aimpoint. I kind of question whether someone who is not in the same room as you is gonig to hear the click of aimpoint turning on, but maybe you're still young and have better ears than me.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2005 5:38:29 AM EDT
[#47]
ikold - I really can't add much to what USMC03 & Submariner have said but I do want to make a comment about the carbon Bushy; don't take it! If for no other reason I doubt Blackwater's Armorer has parts to support it in case something breaks. I know they probably stock more Bushmaster parts than anyone in the world but I doubt they do anything with the carbon Bushmasters.
If you are in the Tidewater area The Armory has a standard 16" Bushmaster M4 carbine on the shelf. That would be the perfect little rifle to take to Blackwater; simple, reliable and dependable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2005 5:57:28 AM EDT
[#48]
IKold, just to add something to think about concerning what has been said here about gear.
Prior to my very first carbine I did the exact same thing you did-I asked the community how I should configure my carbine for the class. I got tons of responses, but at the time I didn't really know how to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. I outfitted my carbine based on the consensus of what I had been told. The last thing I wanted to do was to show up to class with inferior, not enough, or inappropriate gear. To make a long story short I ended up with a $3000 carbine that was completely overbuilt and totally inappropriate for the course being taught. By the end of that first class most of the stuff had been stripped off my gun, and I finished the course with a flashlight, backup irons, and a stock trigger. At least my base carbine was reliable, and I had taken care to bring good ammo and reliable magazines. Don't make the same mistakes I did for my first class. Earlier in the thread when I talked about my reality being shattered, this is what happened. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2005 6:14:24 AM EDT
[#49]
Great post. Good information... making that distinction is exactly what this site is all about. FITTER |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2005 6:57:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Tag so my brain can return for better absorption.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
