I'm considering an AR pistol for a trunk gun.  I currently have a Kel-Tec 9mm folding carbine, but I would prefer the 5.56 round to 9mm.  Obviously space is at a premium, so that is why I'm considering a pistol.

The purpose of this gun would be to fill the niche for a short range rifle for emergency, SHTF, or otherwise immediate need situations when I cannot go home to get my real AR.  Something compact to extend beyond the reach of my 1911 .45ACP handgun that I also carry.

The ideal solution for me would be a 11.5 inch carbine with a telestock, but for obvious legal reasons I do not want to go the short barreled rifle route.

My two concerns are this:

1.shootability- accurate beyond pistol range, probably out to 100 yards.
2.caliber- preferably centerfire rifle (5.56)



The Kel-tec fits #1.  I'm happy with the size and shootability of the Kel-Tec.  It fits into a 16" briefcase- very discrete, and has an actual stock which allows me to shoulder the weapon.  I can easily make head shots at 25 yards and can hit a man sized target at 100.  But the caliber is anemic.  A possible upgrade would be a KT in 45 to match my pistol and simplify logistics, but they have yet to make one.

But I would prefer a 5.56 cartridge, so what I need to know is this:  what kind of accuacy/shootability can I expect from a 11.5" AR pistol? Obviously I cannot shoulder the weapon, so does this offer a significant improvement over my 1911?  Or is it just a high powered pistol? I'm aware of the ballistic concerns of a short barrel, but since it is really a close range weapon (under 100 yards, probably 20-50) I'm comfortable with it.  I hadn't really considered an AR pistol until I watched "Clear and Present Danger" again, and noticed that Clark (Wm Defoe's character) carried an AR pistol (sans sights?).  But I realize of course that Hollywierd can be out of touch with reality...  So I ask here

Does the AR pistol satisfy both requirements?  Or just #2?

Any insight you can provide would be helpful!

Ya know, I kept meaning to mention the SU-16, and that it was high on the list for consideration.  I forgot.  Yeah, I was about ready to buy a standard one until I saw pics of the B version.  I'll probably wait a bit and buy a B one anyway. They fold down to what, 26"?

I would not go under 11.5' for a 5.56 barrel, for the reasons you mentioned.  I suppose you could offset the ballistic problems with shorter barrels by using soft point or HP ammo, but then you are having to rely on specialty ammo, which is outside the parameters of a SHTF gun.  I need to be able to use any ammo available, especially ball.

I like the pistol concept because it would be a really small package, but if it won't meet the criteria, then I'll have to abandon it.  I was also wondering if I would be able to get a postban pistol for cheap and rig a handguard on it.



Maybe I'll get a 11.5 pistol and throw a cheapie telestock kit and wrench in the trunk in case I ever need a buttstock and nobody cares about the legalities...

Quoted: how about an ...AR w/ M-4 stock and 14.5 bbl w/ a perm phantom?

That's my regular AR :)

Here is the concept.  Get an upper with an 11.5" barrel, and make sure the pistol lower has a single point sling mounting point. You use the firearm by griping the pistol grip - with your other hand wrapped around the magazine well.  You will need the single point sling attached.  Now push the weapon away from your body (to put tension on the sling) - this is the method used by the Europeans to shoot SMG's w/o using the stock. With a red-dot optic it should be able to give you enough stability for COM hits out to 100y, and with the 75gr OTMs you should have decent terminal performance for 50-75 yards. I'd still rather go with the Kel Tec...

Well, that was EXACTLY the set-up and method I had in mind.  Although I would still go with M193.  it hits the 2500 fps limit at about 50 yards, which is all I need it to do in a pinch.


but it may be more of an exercise in frustration, and simpler just to keep the Kel-Tec...

Quoted: my ar pistol does great for accuracy to 100+ yards using 75 grain ammo will make a big difference in wound capability also shoot it like a rifle, nose on charging handle, the extension weld is right between the jaw and cheek, works great

That's a thought... !

What kind of pistol do you have (bbl length) and what kind of accuracy do you get?

Thanks!


BTW, I'd like to read the thread on the PDW, if there is one.  Forest, could you point me to it? and what's AR15-L?

Thanks!  waiting for membership...

PLEASE get back to me when your project is complete and let me know how it shoots, both accuracy wise and your prefered presentation method!

Thanks!

so my wish list right now is for a 11.5 upper mated to a lower with a long pistol buffer, or a short CAR buffer that has been shaved to remove the stock attachment.  

I think I like the buffer tube to cheek method better than the sling method.  I took the stock off my M4 and the cheek weld style seemed remarkably solid (for short range, which is what the PDW is for anyway), but the sling method was still a bit shakey.  3 points of contact instead of 2.

I like the gas block mounted sight on the SU-16C, but the stock redesign is way too flimsy for my tastes.  Plus I like the mag carrier ooption.

so the -16B will be the way I go if I switch

question for those with a pistol buffer- does the edge of the cap dig into your face when you shoot it?  The one pictured above looks like it would leave a mark if you tried to get a cheek weld.

anybody?