User Panel
Sounds very nice. Can we see the innards of the system?
It'll be interesting to pit the KKF gas piston up against this one. |
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Cap'n I and a friend are very interested. We have been looking at the HKSl8 becasue of it's clean and reliable action, and had about given up hope on a gas piston AR system. I do have several questions from both of us: 1) will the upper be available only in 5.56 or will other calibers be available. 2) what parts will be interchangable with a standard AR15 3) what warranty will be offered 4) what type of steel is used for barrel/steel components (4140, 4150?) 5) are all aluminum parts forged, or are there any cast parts, if so, what are they? 6) will the barrel definitely have a chrome lined bore and chamber? 7) will a 1:7 twist ratio be offered. 8) what is the piston made of (4140 steel, stainless steel etc). 9) will the standard buffer spring system be used, or is there a forward operating rod? 10)how will the piston impinge upon the bolt assembly 11) can you provide photos of the actual gas system, both external and disassembled? 12) does the system shoot clean (ie keep carbon and residue out of the chamber/upper receiver/mag well) 13) what finishes will be offered? 14) will spare parts be available for purchase if a rifle is purchased? Thanks! |
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Cool review! When we tested the first POF handguard on a standard AR upper, it came equipped with that same muzzle brake. I also noticed how effective the brake was durring the full auto testing we did. It was the first time I had seen that brake, and I havent seen many since.
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Thanks, Capn, I'm excited, in general, about the whole gas-piston movement. Will be interesting to see if any of the various vendors becomes a stand out performer. I'll also be interested to learn how many SCAR submissions, if any, were gas-piston designs.
By the way, did you test this for accuracy? John ----------------- 6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body www.65grendel.com |
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Knowing the configuration of the SCAR submissions would provide a good point of comparison. That said, I'm not really a fan of POF'sPredator rail (no offense), & would interested to know if any other aftermarket rail units would be compatible w/ this new uppper? Also, how accurate is the current iteration of this design?
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My thoughts exactly on other after market rail systems working with this upper. Also, let me ask a stupid question here. ACOGs were originaly designed to be mounted on top of a carry handle right? How is the Predator rail giving a worse cheekweld than that? Or, is it only a bad cheekweld when compared to a regular flat top |
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I dont think any current rail systems would work. The pistion and gas tube are quite bigger than a standard tube. I think the M4 handguards on the HK are bigger.
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Will post updates Monday, we've got electical problems at the house so online time until then is limited.
Strobe, got your IM, will update accordingly tomorrow. BTW, glad to see you on the board! -Cap'n |
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great review Cap'n, now to get Frank to give me one for a few weeks of testing...................
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The ability to order one and have it here next week? Seriously, it is not much different than the Shrike. Looks good, but can't seem to get delivery of. I am waiting on a lot of things from POF to become orderable - MP5 part sets, MP5 Magazines, G3/MP5 Navy Lowers, etc. |
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Ive never had any trouble ordering things from POF, I guess ive had good luck to get stuff before its sold out and waiting for more
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Take it back to 300yds, against a real M4, and see which gun makes smaller groups...
Unless you manage to add accuracy by chaning the operating system, this is a solution looking for a problem. The normal AR system is functionally reliable (eg it can shoot a full combat load of ammo (far less than 5200 rds) without jamming due to lack of cleaning... It's also more accurate than any comparable piston-op gun (note, COMPARABLE. A $3000 'match' M21 is not 'comparable' to a rack grade M16A2)... |
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I dunno, Dave; the Daewoo DR200 I had was as accurate as any AR I've ever seen (as long as you used 55grn ammo in it, with it's 1-in-12 barrel).
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Frank has ADD and has long since forgotten about this project. |
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ian187,
You may want to look at the latest Shotgun News. We will begin our sale of this patent pending gas-piston uppers at the 2004 SAR (Small Arms Review), in Phoenix, AZ., December 3-5. The test mule Capn_Crunch tested was one of our first test units that was on display at the 2004 Shot Show. We have made great enhancements to the current gas-piston uppers for the AR15/M16. Best regards, Frank POF-USA |
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Please continue to keep us posted. There are those of us who would very much like a piston upper for our A15s. |
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Cost? If it isn't public yet, shoot me an IM. |
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I personally have met Frank and have fired one of his full auto ARs with his gas system and they run beautifly, they help keep all the crap out of the chamber and really keep the bolt almost spotless. Only thing that I hated was that the range I met him at only allowed full autos to be fired while sitting.
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I'll be there, I look forward to meeting you in person. By the way, I hope you didn't take what I said seriously. |
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I'm interested if the cost has come down now that the system is in actual production?
"Happiness is a warm gun" -John Lennon |
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Got a chance to meet Frank last weekend and try out his 11.5" system. In auto it has about 2/3 the recoil impluse of a 20" M16 and in semi about 2/3 the recoil impulse of the M4 system. the 11.5" was cycling around 645rpm in auto...a little more than half of what a standard full auto 11.5" carbine runs.....nice an controllable. The other benefits of the system is it runs super clean and cool, even in auto it doesn't seem to get very hot or retain heat.
Can't wait to see the next revision Frank brings out, once some of the kinks are worked out...this will be one bad ass system. The price quoted was not too bad either.....substantially less than other systems. |
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Where can I find more information about the KKFpiston upper?
Tsh77769 |
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Nice review but NO way in heck is that handguard to the M1913 spec.
1) Groove down the middle is not spec and precludes the use of KAC type foward grips. 2) Rails look like they are missing the 'neck' (area from the underside of the angle to the where it connects to the tube or receiver. (see the diagram on page 4 of MIL-STD 1913). I take it you can clean the gas piston by removing the FAL gas plug? That is a neat feature. You mentioned the welding of the gas key - can you post a pic of the final design of the bolt carrier when it comes out? Since the gas key is designed to direct gas into the bolt carrier I'd imagine they could redesign the key to better work with the piston. |
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Frank hasn't brought the first model out yet so I would be more excited to just see something...anything...really. |
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The 11.5" carbines we were shooting used Rock River Lowers with RRA/BM 6 postions stocks. The Bolt carrier has been modified to work with the piston and though it resembles a standard M16 Bolt assembly, it has some unique features....not going to let the cat out of the bag.... Frank was working on adjusting the gas system so it cycled better in Auto.....ran fine in semi..but had some hang ups in auto.
The Predator handguard covered in MAGPUL Rail Protectors stayed cool to the touch after dumping several mags down range full-auto. Not a bad system and from pics I've seen, stong enough to hold up a car. According to Frank the upper will us a standard 1913 spec gas block so any detachable front sight can be used. He said he plans to use Troy flip up front and rear sights as standard when the upper comes to market. He said he planned to have around 50 units ready for the SAR show in Dec. Also said he was thinking about making lowers and would mark them with the pictogram feature found on newer HK's. All in all a pretty neat system. Might just have to get one when they come out. |
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Here is the copy of the e-mails between Frank and myself. hopefully this will answer some others questions also.
Sent : Thursday, October 14, 2004 12:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject : AR15.Com Email :: Dwimmerlaik :: Gas Piston Upper What is the price of the gas piston system now that it is in production? Will there be kits available for the do it yourself type? FROM: "POF-USA" <[email protected]> | Save Address DATE: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:58:44 -0700 TO: [email protected] SUBJECT: re: AR15.Com Email : Gas Piston Upper The Price is ONLY: $975.00 This includes: POF-USA M4 heavy fluted chrome lined barrel Mil-spec flat top upper receiver and charging handle Vortec flash hider Predator free floating tactical rail system with sling/bi-pod attachment Magpul rail covers Removalable front site Troy Ind. rear flip up site POF-USA Gas-Piston system (Picatinnay gas block/tube, gas plug, gas piston, op-rod) POF-USA Gas-Piston Bolt Carrier assemble w/mechanical key (NO Gas Ring/Exhaust Holes) Our gas-piston upper come standard using C.R.O.S (tm) (Crossion Resistant Operating System) Chrome plated and chrome lined: Barrel Picatinny gas block/tube Gas plug Gas piston Bolt Extractor Cam Pin Firing Pin Bolt Carrier We will build and sell complete uppers only. We are proving our customers a very rugged system with MANY options as STANDARD, at a conservative price. Thanks for the inquiry. Let us know if we can assist you. Best regards, Frank POF-USA www.POF-USA.com [email protected] 623-561-9572 wk 623-321-1680 fax Now, $975.00 may be a "conservative price" for an upper with all that stuff on it to some but I won't be in that line for quite some time unfortunately. "Happiness is a warm gun" -John Lennon |
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