User Panel
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:18:07 PM EDT
I heard you used one of the new S&W M&P 15-22 .22LR AR lookalikes at your recent Portland class. How did you like it, and what are your thoughts on it as a training tool?
I was looking to get one for the wife and kids to use as they learn to shoot. Okay, I would put a few rounds through it also Thanks for any input. |
|
absolutly awsome peice of kit. goes hand and hand with the M&P 15 for training. As long as you know how to properly train back and forth with both 5.56 and .22 then you simply cant go wrong on the savings it gives you. more later...
|
|
Do they plan on releasing the upper as well or just the stand alone rifle that they have right now.
|
|
That was one of my biggest regrets at our class, i.e getting more photos of that little gun and/or handling it.
Lately S&W is just synonymous with "awesome". |
|
So will .22 be acceptable caliber these days for schedule MPD courses?
|
|
Quoted:
So will .22 be acceptable caliber these days for schedule MPD courses? Yes, we have a new course this year called: Magpul Dynamics .22 Transistion. or MD22 course It is a combo of .22 and 5.56 to show people how to properly transistion back and forth between the systems properly and get the most our of a deticated system or conversion kit. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
So will .22 be acceptable caliber these days for schedule MPD courses? Yes, we have a new course this year called: Magpul Dynamics .22 Transistion. or MD22 course It is a combo of .22 and 5.56 to show people how to properly transistion back and forth between the systems properly and get the most our of a deticated system or conversion kit. That is very exciting, as is your endorsement of the 15-22. I have been looking for a good, reasonably priced .22 AR training option, and this sounds like it is it. Now if only Glock would come out with a dedicated .22LR trainer ... Your class sounds innovative and pioneering (it would make a great DVD also). I think lowering the cost of training is important to pull new and younger shooters into the fold. |
|
I forget exactly which 'can' Travis was using with that 15-22, but it was basically set to "whisper mode" that entire weekend.
I think the buzzing in our ear pro from the high tension power lines was louder than that gun. |
|
Yah that buzzing at first made me think my hearing protection was busted.. then realized it was the high voltage towers.
The can was an AAC Aviator. |
|
Quoted:
In for why I need to spend more money... To bad you can't get OT for IAD visits.... but you can always work a few off duty details for funding and use it as a tax write off for training equipment. |
|
Now that I've seen the S&W in action it kinda pisses me off I spent money on a dedicated Spike's .22 upper.
Reason 1: I bought it for training in prep for MD Carbine 1 and it sat in the safe for 3 months because I couldn't find ammo. Cabela's filled the order 8 days before the class! Reason 2: I can't get the damned thing to digest more than 5-6 rounds in a row without jamming - no matter what I feed it. And I KNOW the Value Pak ammo is GTG because it's what Spike's says to use AND Travis ran the brick I supplied him to use in the S&W at the Portland class. And, "Yes" I am aware of the ARFCOM links on how to spit, polish, dremel, adjust, hone, buff and f*ck with it to make it work. I even bought another lower with standard LPK for it - still no luck. The good news with all that is that it give me LOTS of practice clearing jams and it's a great way to get familiar with the weapon. BETTER news would be that the damned thing worked out of the box... (end mini-rant) |
|
Quoted: Now that I've seen the S&W in action it kinda pisses me off I spent money on a dedicated Spike's .22 upper. Reason 1: I bought it for training in prep for MD Carbine 1 and it sat in the safe for 3 months because I couldn't find ammo. Cabela's filled the order 8 days before the class! Reason 2: I can't get the damned thing to digest more than 5-6 rounds in a row without jamming - no matter what I feed it. And I KNOW the Value Pak ammo is GTG because it's what Spike's says to use AND Travis ran the brick I supplied him to use in the S&W at the Portland class. And, "Yes" I am aware of the ARFCOM links on how to spit, polish, dremel, adjust, hone, buff and f*ck with it to make it work. I even bought another lower with standard LPK for it - still no luck. The good news with all that is that it give me LOTS of practice clearing jams and it's a great way to get familiar with the weapon. BETTER news would be that the damned thing worked out of the box... (end mini-rant) I'd just send it back to Spike's for a refund/replacement. IIRC, they have a liberal return policy. My CMMG kit runs like a top, but I don't have a crappy throw-a-away upper to use it with. Which AR to run my .22 conversion kit? My Noveske? BCM? SPR-ish rifle? LOL!!! |
|
IIRC, they have a liberal return policy.
I can return liberals? So that's what I've been doing wrong. |
|
Quoted: I sent mine back to Tom after I was having similar problems. When I got it back it runs like a damn Swiss watch. I can literally go a full 550 bulkpack without malfunction. Call up Spikes and they'll set you right.Quoted: Now that I've seen the S&W in action it kinda pisses me off I spent money on a dedicated Spike's .22 upper. Reason 1: I bought it for training in prep for MD Carbine 1 and it sat in the safe for 3 months because I couldn't find ammo. Cabela's filled the order 8 days before the class! Reason 2: I can't get the damned thing to digest more than 5-6 rounds in a row without jamming - no matter what I feed it. And I KNOW the Value Pak ammo is GTG because it's what Spike's says to use AND Travis ran the brick I supplied him to use in the S&W at the Portland class. And, "Yes" I am aware of the ARFCOM links on how to spit, polish, dremel, adjust, hone, buff and f*ck with it to make it work. I even bought another lower with standard LPK for it - still no luck. The good news with all that is that it give me LOTS of practice clearing jams and it's a great way to get familiar with the weapon. BETTER news would be that the damned thing worked out of the box... (end mini-rant) I'd just send it back to Spike's for a refund/replacement. IIRC, they have a liberal return policy. My CMMG kit runs like a top, but I don't have a crappy throw-a-away upper to use it with. Which AR to run my .22 conversion kit? My Noveske? BCM? SPR-ish rifle? LOL!!! I'm not saying it shouldn't have worked out of the box, just that they'll get it running for you. |
|
Not rubbing in here... but we have ran about 2000 rounds strait on the M&P 15-22 and I havent seen it malfunction yet. I did however simulate all the M4 platform malfuntions with it to varify that it can even be used to work on malfs,... not ideal but it will simulate which says that much more about the system.
The can was a AAC AVIATOR |
|
Nice.. I was looking at Spike's 22 upper.. glad I didn't get it. Now the M&P looks like a winner.
|
|
To keep it in perpective, the Spike's upper gets pretty good reviews overall (I did a LOT of research before I threw down the $$) but I apparently got one that's out of balance a bit. Figures! There are also many folks giving Spike's high marks for customer service.
The problem with me is that I have already waited months to use it (ammo availability) + missed the primary opportunity to use it for the intended purpose (training for C-1) so my patience/aggravation quotiant has already been used up. That being said, I should have questioned a piece of kit that has numerous threads on how to make them run and more threads with guys bragging they finally got theirs to "eat anything I feed it". YMMV |
|
I personally can't wait to get one of these. I've been in love since I saw it for the first time...
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: So will .22 be acceptable caliber these days for schedule MPD courses? Yes, we have a new course this year called: Magpul Dynamics .22 Transistion. or MD22 course It is a combo of .22 and 5.56 to show people how to properly transistion back and forth between the systems properly and get the most our of a deticated system or conversion kit. any word on when/where the class will be |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So will .22 be acceptable caliber these days for schedule MPD courses? Yes, we have a new course this year called: Magpul Dynamics .22 Transistion. or MD22 course It is a combo of .22 and 5.56 to show people how to properly transistion back and forth between the systems properly and get the most our of a deticated system or conversion kit. any word on when/where the class will be It's tentative, but you can get the list of classes on Magpul's Industrial Forum. There's a pinned up topic about requirements for Magpul Dynamics classes. |
|
I don't want to take away from this topic but that you'd like to see my 15-22 with my Magpul supplies on it. OD Green ladders, MIAD, CTR. MBUS are on back order and should be in next week or so. My question for travis is, what are you using for a sling attachment to it?? Also for those that have one and plan on using the MIAD grip, the backstraps B2 and B3 will not work, they will but they don't set on the gun where it curves up towards the buffer tube, there is a large gab and looks terrible so I just used the straight backstrap
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/b_hamman0512/CIMG0757.jpg http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/b_hamman0512/CIMG0754.jpg http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/b_hamman0512/CIMG0756.jpg http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/b_hamman0512/CIMG0755.jpg |
|
Believe it or not, and Travis is sneaky that way, it was a simple zip tie.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8396760@N02/3787181286/sizes/o/in/set-72157621813443937/ |
|
When is magpul officially realeasing the AZSM (Ambidextrous Zip Tie Sling Mount ) ?
|
|
Quoted:
Believe it or not, and Travis is sneaky that way, it was a simple zip tie. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2556/3787181286_a9b7473305.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photos/8396760@N02/3787181286/sizes/o/in/set-72157621813443937/ Technically Travis only placed his hand on that weapon at the OR class. He never placed his eyes on it until the that day. You got to do what you got to do. |
|
And I think at around 3 pounds that zip tie would get the job done haha
|
|
"Also for those that have one and plan on using the MIAD grip, the backstraps B2 and B3 will not work, they will but they don't set on the gun where it curves up towards the buffer tube, there is a large gab and looks terrible so I just used the straight backstrap"
Hamman0512 do you think the MAGPUL AR-10 Gap filler for the MIAD would fill this? I've got a 15-22 coming and much prefer the large MIAD backstraps. Thanks. |
|
WOW. this thread is awesome. I got a CMMG conversion kit a while back to be able to practice a lot more while saving money and still using the same exact AR. I thought it was kinda ghetto, even tho I had a blast with it, UNTIL I saw this thread. It is great for a lot of drills so you dont have to waste "good" ammo, but it is kinda harder on others (rapid fire, malf drills, others, etc.). Didn't think I would be able to afford a MD class for a while, but an actual .22LR class? that cuts the cost in half or more. nice.
|
|
Quoted:
"Also for those that have one and plan on using the MIAD grip, the backstraps B2 and B3 will not work, they will but they don't set on the gun where it curves up towards the buffer tube, there is a large gab and looks terrible so I just used the straight backstrap" Hamman0512 do you think the MAGPUL AR-10 Gap filler for the MIAD would fill this? I've got a 15-22 coming and much prefer the large MIAD backstraps. Thanks. I actually was looking at that last night on their website. I think I'm going to order it and try, it does look like thats what it needs. I'll try and get a picture of how the backstraps fit sometime this afternoon |
|
Are those LMT sights it comes with? The rear looks just like the LMT. I'm not sure about the front sight, but the rear looks just like a LMT.
How much are new magazines and what's availability like? |
|
Travis, what type of ammo did you use for that 30k session that worked so well?
|
|
|
Seems to me like this is fertile ground for another S&W/MagPul MOE collaboration. How about one of these from the factory with MOE grip, MOE stock and MBUS?
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Travis, what type of ammo did you use for that 30k session that worked so well? I will find out tomorrow if the MAGPUL AR10 Gapper fits havent tried it yet. as for the ammo its cerainly likes to eat this: (and was recommended by S&W) http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/magpuldynamics08/CCI.jpg Good stuff. I use the Mini Mags or Stingers in of my 22 guns. |
|
Quoted:
What about mags? Are they proprietary S&W mags? Yes they are. |
|
Quoted: Travis, what type of ammo did you use for that 30k session that worked so well? The first 500 rnds he used was the 525 Federal ValuPak I gave him to use in Portland. I was impressed with how flawlessly it ran, even though S&W recommends CCI. (I wish it ran tht well in my Spikes) |
|
Quoted:
Seems to me like this is fertile ground for another S&W/MagPul MOE collaboration. How about one of these from the factory with MOE grip, MOE stock and MBUS? There is much 'win' in this post. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems to me like this is fertile ground for another S&W/MagPul MOE collaboration. How about one of these from the factory with MOE grip, MOE stock and MBUS? There is much 'win' in this post. I would definitely buy one. It would save me some money as I would be doing it anyway. |
|
Quoted:
Do they plan on releasing the upper as well or just the stand alone rifle that they have right now. this |
|
Quoted:
Now that I've seen the S&W in action it kinda pisses me off I spent money on a dedicated Spike's .22 upper. Reason 1: I bought it for training in prep for MD Carbine 1 and it sat in the safe for 3 months because I couldn't find ammo. Cabela's filled the order 8 days before the class! Reason 2: I can't get the damned thing to digest more than 5-6 rounds in a row without jamming - no matter what I feed it. And I KNOW the Value Pak ammo is GTG because it's what Spike's says to use AND Travis ran the brick I supplied him to use in the S&W at the Portland class. And, "Yes" I am aware of the ARFCOM links on how to spit, polish, dremel, adjust, hone, buff and f*ck with it to make it work. I even bought another lower with standard LPK for it - still no luck. The good news with all that is that it give me LOTS of practice clearing jams and it's a great way to get familiar with the weapon. BETTER news would be that the damned thing worked out of the box... (end mini-rant) FWIW, I have both an Model 1 Dedicated 22LR upper and a Spike's Tactical 22LR upper. I haven't had a jam with the Model 1 in 5,000 rounds or so. My Spike's upper is newer, but I haven't had a jam since the first magazine. I shoot Federal 525 round bulk packs or CCI Mini-Mags. All I do is put Slide Glide from Brian Enos on the rail flats where the bolt moves back and forth, and on the hammer face. When I come home from the range, I clean out the chamber only with bore cleaner and several 6" Q-Tips and leave the rest of the gun dirty. Takes 2 minutes max. 22LR fouls chambers quickly in any gun. I pull the bolt slide assembly every 1,000 rounds and do a normal full cleaning then. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do they plan on releasing the upper as well or just the stand alone rifle that they have right now. this Its proprietary. The upper and lower are not AR compatible as they are made out of polymer and different sizes. |
|
Any word on the when and where of the 22class? This would be a perfect opertunity to put my rifles through their paces. My Spikes setup is well beyong 5k rounds now of federal automatch and federal bulkpacks. They both work outstandingly well. This is a great idea as ammo cost seems to be a lot of peoples biggest limiting factor.
My rifles |
|
Quoted:
"Also for those that have one and plan on using the MIAD grip, the backstraps B2 and B3 will not work, they will but they don't set on the gun where it curves up towards the buffer tube, there is a large gab and looks terrible so I just used the straight backstrap" Hamman0512 do you think the MAGPUL AR-10 Gap filler for the MIAD would fill this? I've got a 15-22 coming and much prefer the large MIAD backstraps. Thanks. I installed my MIAD last night and i'm not as concerned about the gap as I am the rear take-down pin spring. For those of you that haven't taken one apart, the selector switch spring is in the normal postion but the rear takedown pin and spring are right next to it. The way the MIAD is molded it doesn't have a flat and solid seat for the rear takedown pin spring. I used some epoxy putty to fill up that little area and then flattened it. Now the spring sits on something solid. I'll take pics tonight. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.