User Panel
Posted: 3/15/2007 2:13:05 PM EDT
Okay, I know there are alot of Fella's that are getting in their PMAG's. Although we have done a lot of in and out of house testing we'd like to get feedback from the masses. Magpul develops products based on the end users needs and requests. Sticking to this value we want to know what you guys think and/or what could be done to improve our design. Your info is important to us. That said, our testing this far has been very successful. We have beat this mag to hell and back, thrown off of buildings, dropped off of ladders, ran over by trucks and fired through every type of lower/ upper we could get our hands on, full, three round and semi. Specific information we're looking for are;
-overall feel/quality -smooth follower movement -type/ grain ammo used -total round counts -uppers used -lowers used -M4 feed ramps, yes or no -full auto/semi auto -feeding issues/ other malfuntions -drop-free issues -other clearance issues -anything else..... Please, only post feedback in this thread. Below there are four other threads to post questions or other related conversations. Thanks Fella's! PMAG thread PMAG thread PMAG thread PMAG thread |
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-overall feel/quality
Excellent. -smooth follower movement Very smooth. No binding or dragging, even when dirty and sandy. -type/ grain ammo used Mainly 55gr FMJ and 75gr TAP. -total round counts Approx. 500. -uppers used Sabre & CMT. -lowers used Global Tactical & Spikes. -M4 feed ramps, yes or no Yes. -full auto/semi auto Semi Auto. -feeding issues/ other malfuntions None. 100% perfect function under both clean and dirty/sandy conditions. -drop-free issues None. -other clearance issues None. |
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7KOPPER,
I recently received 4 Blk Pmags. Here are my first impressions: hCarbines used for testing 1) Bushmaster M4, Patrolmans carbine (M4 feed ramps, semi-auto): No feeding or lock back malfuctions, all 4 mags dropped free(loaded/unloaded), and inserted on full 30 rounds w/closed bolt w/o even a slap on the base plate, smooth and flawless. 2 mags were burried in loose dirt, another put in water, a third in sand. All were given 1 quicks shake, loaded to capacity w/dummy rounds, and then inserted, dropped, inserted again, then manually cycled w/o fail. 2) Rock River Government Model (DEA Carbine), (M4 feed ramps, semi auto): Same tests as Bushmaster, WITH SAME RESULTS heBushmaster: 1st mags were the 55gr.soft point. Ran smooth, w/o any malfunctions, cycling issues or lock back issues. Next 2 mags were the green tip, same results, except for 1 failure to feed/stuck round, traced back to a round, with what looked like, and this was unbeleivable as I have never seen this before, there was a small chunk missing from the base of the casing heckRock River: Completed same tests...with only 1 malfunction on, surprise surprise, the reloded green tip rounds, with the same problem. I guess I'll be more carefull when buying reloaded green tip next time. I checked the remainder of the gren tip and found 5 more rounds w/the same problem, this realy puzzled me. I took it to a friend of mine who looked at the rounds and he couldn't figure out what the deal was. We tried the rounds in USGI mags also w/same results hese, but if I would have done my tests with USGI mags, I would not have made it through the stomp tests. Sorry I dont have pics of my tests (My other half is out of town visiting her relatives and took the digital AND video camera hese, must have PMAGS. I plan on buying at least 6 of the Blk window mags,2 more of the Blk non window mags, and 5 each of the FDE Pmags in both window and non-window versions. Keep up the great work guys, and thanks for making an excellent product...now hurry up and crank out the MASADA |
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overall feel/quality
Excellent.[/ -smooth follower movement Very smooth. No binding or jamming -type/ grain ammo used Radway green 62gr -total round counts Approx. 800.- uppers used Bushmaster -lowers used Bushmaster, Ameetec and Colt Sp1 RR- M4 feed ramps, yes or no No -full auto/semi auto 200 rounds Semi Auto. 600 rounds Full auto- feeding issues/ other malfuntions 100% function -drop-free issues Zero -other clearance issues |
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I have not had mine long enough to run too many rounds yet, but so far they work as well as, if not better than, any other mag I own. No failures to feed, no jams, no failures to lock bolt open when empty. Mag insertion and removal is smooth and snag free. I am using using Lake City M855 ammo in 3 different custom build rifles.
I have noticed that my Lula mag loader kind of wobbles around on the PMAG. As a result, sometimes the Lula cam does not depress the follower enough to be able "drop" the round in. Not a big deal, just a minor annoyance. I love them. As soon as the OD and DE windowed versions are available, I will be ordering 10 of each. If you bastards would quit dicking around and actually PRODUCE the UBR, I would send some more money your way.... Also, please make the Masada in 308. I don't need another 223. I guess I'll have to buy an FAL instead..... Seriously, keep up the great work. |
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-overall feel I've never had any polymer mags before but these impress me as far as fit and finish go. Strength is also pretty impressive as I have difficulty flexing these mags or getting them to compress in any way. -smooth follower movement Yep, smooth follower movement -type/ grain ammo used xm193 and GA canned heat 55gr reloads -total round counts 360rds so far. I bought 3 mags and ran 120rds in each -uppers used Bushmaster -lowers used Bushmaster -M4 feed ramps, yes or no no -full auto/semi auto semi -feeding issues/ other malfuntions In my bushmaster lower there seems to be a little more front to back rock than USGI mags. After noticing this I used a magwell grip and held the magazine all the way back (pulled towards the butstock). Doing this on the first few rounds in the mag would cause a FTF until 4 or so rounds had been cycled. After a few tries in this the problem seemed to smooth out and I have not had any issues with this anymore. -drop-free issues all drop free just fine -other clearance issues LULAs do sit on the mags kind of funny. the front will rock up during loading and then rounds will not drop all the way into the magazine. The last 1/8 of an inch or so of the cartridge stays on the lip of the magazine requiring me to push it in the rest of the way. As of now it is faster to hand load the mags than use the LULA. I will say that these mags hand load a lot smoother than any other mags I have though. -anything else..... M261 conversion kits will NOT work with this mag. Not an issue since I didn't really buy these to use the kit with, but for anyone considering buying them in hope of using them with the kit, it wont work. I'd say its a great product. I'll have to use them a little more though to fully understand the magazine hold issue I was having and before I make a decision on weather or not I'll buy more. |
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I have given my magazines to a military unit, which has been firing thousands rounds a day through them. Full Auto fire is no problem. Initial comments are all VERY positive. No failures of any kind as of right now. These magazines are not being treated kindly, nor did I ask them to. I figured people would be skeptical enough that I told them to beat on the PMAGs as hard as they wanted, including dropping, kicking, jumping, etc. I'll update this more as I talk to the additional LE and MIL instructors involved with my group of magazines. |
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I have 6 of the new production mags in black and 1 preproduction mag in FDE. All comments are the same across the board, except for one.
-overall feel/quality Excellent. They are the finest polymer product I have handled -smooth follower movement Excellent again. Smoother than what I have come to expect from the HK416 mags. I suspect it is the inherit lubricity of the plastic parts against one another. -type/ grain ammo used Winchester Q3131, British Radway Green M855 62 Gr. SS109, Igman M855 62 Gr. SS109 -total round counts Each mag (out of 7) has an average of 200 rounds fired -uppers used LWRC, Bushmaster, CMMG, Daniel Defense -lowers used LWRC, Bushmaster, Daniel Defense -M4 feed ramps, yes or no yes on all carbines tested -full auto/semi auto Most of the shooting has been semi. Each mag has one full-auto dump through them -feeding issues/ other malfuntions No issues yet -drop-free issues As I alluded to, the pre-production FDE mag didn't drop free from one of my lowers (Bushmaster). All of the Black Production mags drop free from all 5 of my AR lowers. -other clearance issues None -anything else..... I have also done a good bit of informal durability testing with these mags and they have performed extremely. The FDE mag was fully loaded and dropped two dozen times onto the baseplate from a height of 4 feet onto a concrete surface. There have been no signs of cracking or structural damage. At our training facility down in Florida we took turns throwing a fully loaded PMAG as high as we could onto a grass and gravel shooting bay. Again, no signs of cracking or structural damage. I buried it with the snap cover in place and it ran fine. I'm sold on these mags. Solid performers at a great price. I have one loaded with the snap cover off that I'm going to leave in the lock box in my SUV through the summer. Temps should approach or exceed 150 degrees. I'll let you know how it goes. Stephen www.atstacticalgear.com |
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overall feel/quality
Very Nice -smooth follower movement Good no issues -type/ grain ammo used Guat surplus -total round counts 0 function check only -uppers used Del-Ton 16" middy -lowers used DPMS -M4 feed ramps, yes or no NO -full auto/semi auto N/A -feeding issues/ other malfuntions YES:copied from other post So I got my two black PMAGs today. Loaded them up with 30rds of Guat. played with the dust covers etc. figured I'd do a function check bolt locked back PMAG inserted bolt release pressed clunk!!! charging handle pulled to the rear released clunk!!! a few more times finally the bolt goes foward. Pulled charging handle back to eject round/load next. Round ejects next round jams again. the tip of the ejected round is all messed up. as a sanity check i put in a few different D&H and CP mags 20 and 30 rd no problems both PMAGs do this the tip of the round is slammed into the reciever just under the feed ramp. though maybe the springs are just tight NOPE does it even with only a few rounds in the mag if i had M4 feed ramps i think it would work better but i have no issues with other mags and have never had a jam or feeding issue with this rifle just under 1000rds of everything including wolf suggestions??? -drop-free issues No -other clearance issues No -anything else..... see above |
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-overall feel/quality Great
-smooth follower movement Yes -type/ grain ammo used 55gr Wolf FMJ -total round counts 0, failed to feed everytime -uppers used Factory Armalite M15A2 -lowers used Factory Armalite M15A2 -M4 feed ramps, yes or no No -full auto/semi auto Semi -feeding issues/ other malfuntions Will NOT feed in my Armalite at all -drop-free issues none -other clearance issues none -anything else..... It would not feed in my Armalite, but when I got home it chambered fine in my Bushmaster which has their version of extended feed ramps |
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Email just sent to me from one of the MIL guys regarding PMAGs. While PMAGs wandered the line for several days, this is the only written commentary I've gotten.
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Thanks for the feedback everybody. We are going to do a little tweaking of the feed lip geometry as we get more feedback. It some cases we have to tighten the tolerances and in others we have to loosen them, but the tweaks seem to fix the feeding issues listed above. We will replace the mag bodies of anyone having issues once the modifications are complete,
The Olympic Arms issue was a new one but probably not something we will address with a mold change. |
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I had the same issues as you with my four mags. I tried hand cycling rounds through several AR/M4 carbines. I had HARD impacts into both M4 and standard feed ramps. It was severe with 75gr TAP, both NATO velocity canulared and steel cased practice ammo. It was slightly less with LC M193. Bullet tip deformity was HEAVY with the TAP rounds. Im waiting for some range time. |
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Rich/Drake... for what its worth, when Lumpy and I were discussing his issues lst night, I loaded some of my 75gr TAP rounds in my mags including my initial test mag, and cycled them by hand through one rifle, and they fed and chambered with zero issues. No damage to the bullets either. Dont know if thats of any help to you or not, knowing when I got my mags and the ones Lumpy just recieved.
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This issue can vary with receivers used. We have identified the exact issue and have a fix for it which we tested in house with TAP ammo. The mold is currently apart and this is one of the changes we are making. |
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I loosened the mag catch a full turn out as it seemed too tight on my Armalite. It started feeding with no trouble by hand. Ill let you know when I take it back to a range for sure if the problem is solved, may have been a fluke and not a mag issue
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I had a problem feeding with 62gr. Golden Bear HP's. The tips being a bit flatter than FMJ would get caught up in the middle bar of the feedramp. This would happen on the right side bullet only.
Gun used: home made CMT M4 cut upper 16" middy barrel Superior Arms lower-snug mag fit but very exceptable-would not drop free when mag empty Standard bolt The funny thing is this ammo feed perfectly on my second rifle and Pmag combo with no probs at all. CMT M4 cut upper 18" middy barrel Stag Lower- perfect mag fit - Mag would fall free when empty LMT enhanced bolt Other ammo I was shooting feed perfectly on both rifles. 75gr. HPBT ammo-norinco 55gr FMJ-remanufactured 55gr FMJ ammo. Overall excellent Mags - Tough as nails - I will try different HP ammo in the future to see if other HP's also have the same problem. |
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-overall feel/quality: Great overall feel. Exudes Magpul quality. -smooth follower movement: Slick as goose shit. -type/ grain ammo used: M193/55 gr FMJ -total round counts: 20 mags.....lost count... -uppers used: Bushy, Stag, LMT -lowers used: Bushy, Stag, LMT -M4 feed ramps, yes or no: Both -full auto/semi auto: Don't I wish...semi only -feeding issues/ other malfuntions: None whatsoever. -drop-free issues: None whatsoever. -other clearance issues: None whatsoever. -anything else.....: PMAGS ARE FREAKIN' AWESOME!!! Thanks guys, you rock! |
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I have faith |
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The Pmags I just got won't load 75 grain hornady loads either. Is there any kind of exchange policy? Sorry, didn't see this:
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Question: Does he mag release lever wear down the slot on the mag?
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-overall feel/quality Awesome!
-smooth follower movement Yes -type/ grain ammo used RG ss109 and LC M855 -total round counts 300 -uppers used RRA 20" bullbarrel, and a LaRue Stealth with Noveske Barrel -lowers used Bushmaster and STAG -M4 feed ramps, yes or no Both -full auto/semi auto Semi -feeding issues/ other malfuntions ZERO -drop-free issues ZERO -other clearance issues ZERO -anything else..... Both guns were new builds and these were the first rounds fired through them. Although both guns were cleaned before shooting, I ran them very dry, just a drop or two of CLP to the bolt, no lube was applied to the out side of the carrier assembly at all. I love these Mags. |
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I bought ten for use in mine, did a small test, and did find two mags with issues. I will run more rounds this week. - I love the feel, they seem really tough. - 80 rounds, handloads. 55gr VMAX, win brass. Functioned 100%. Another shooter put a few rounds of Remington through it, but I don't know how many, but they functioned 100% as well. - Bushy Upper, A1 20" barrel. - Cav arms MKII lower. - No M4 ramps. - Semi Auto - Two mags act up when locking the action back. Neither lock the action properly, and it locks up on the follower. Only way to drop the action is to drop the magazine. Followers are getting seriously gouged in those two mags. Only happens with two mags. -All mags drop free properly. - No other issues. I think I will need to have those 2 mags replaced. Other than that, I love em. |
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-overall feel/quality
Very good positive lock up. Nice and grippy. I like the wide baseplate which eliminates the need for a rubber magpul -smooth follower movement Smooth when the mag is empty. Somewhat slow and sticky when loaded to 28rds. -type/ grain ammo used 55gr Guat surplus. Runs fine in Okay industries mags. -total round counts 500+ rounds spread over 5 mags, randomly. Used in Failure Drills and other drills. Mags were continually topped off and run about 50-60 times. -uppers used Bushmaster 14.5" carbine -lowers used Bushmaster -M4 feed ramps No -full auto/semi auto Semi -feeding issues/ other malfunctions Failure to feed first round off mag loaded up to 28-20rds. Bolt release was a NO-GO. Charging handle on a locked bolt failed to feed 90% of the time. Closed bolt charging on a full mag (28rds) was a GO about 90% of the time. After a round was chambered, the PMAG would run 100% -drop-free issues Dropped free easily from my bushmaster which has a tighter magwell than my other AR-15's. -other clearance issues Tight and hard to load. Especially for the last 10 rounds into the mag. -anything else..... Rounds were hard to depress by hand, even when loaded to 28rds. If one round was removed, I could watch the rounds push up *slowly* In all my other mags rounds snap up into place. Maybe they are bulging? One mag didn't exhibit this behavior. That specific mag was used less... See my After Action Report from the 10-8 class where I used these. -Here- |
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Other.......
I have read elsewhere that you plan to stop production of the non-window version once the window versions come out.....please keep offering the non-window version. I like the less then $15 price and don't need a window. |
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This is a known issue and is a QC problem with those magazines. If you can please send the mags showing this issue back to us and we will send replacements. We would like to see these as they are the only production units we have seen do this. |
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We have NEVER said that. The PMags will be offered in windowed, non windowed and smoked see through (for the TPD AUG but can be used in the AR15). |
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Please send the two problem mags back to us so we can take a look at them. We will send you replacements ASAP. |
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Not to disagree with you, but...here's probably where HK_DUDE got his info:
7KOPPER's response in blue... Does this mean I get a free case of Black windowless PMAG's? |
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Last night I pulled all these magazines apart. Then cleaned them. I checked each followers fit to the inside of each magazine. Nearly every single one would bind *slightly* as they were pushed through. I then beveled the inside edge of the four runners that are on the follower. (A similar bevel to the outside edge) I also filed material off these runners so that they would have more clearance to the side of the magazine. I then test fit them to see if the would still bind. Binding was reduced. 2 of the mags were loaded up to 30rds by hand, then downgraded by 2. Rounds snapped up as they were removed. A depress check also showed that they snapped up. Things I noticed: -After a day of sitting and drying out, the rounds snapped up faster than previously. Still they were slow and took much force to depress. There is a possibility that I had loaded them up past 30, but even still each one was downgraded by 2. -When pulling apart these mags, some of them exhibited a sort of repetitive ripple inside the mag body. Maybe 3/4 of an inch apart. Some had a more distinct ripple than others. I assume this is some sort of articulated piece of the mold, made so that it can be removed from the mag body after it's been created? Do you still want these mags even though I modified them slightly? |
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Yes, please send them back. It sounds like you have a few mags that missed the cooling cycle so we'd like to confirm. THx.
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Any idea when the mold will be finalized and you will be offering the body exchange? I just bought ten of these on Monday. I'm really sorry to hear about the feeding issues folks are having. I thought the product was in its final form. Oh well. I hope mine run okay.
Not a bash. You're a stand-up company and I know you guys are just making a great product perfect. I can't fault you for that. |
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Spectre1...that is exactly what I was referring to. NEVER say NEVER I am glad this was an error....I am not causing a he said she said either...just wanted to know for sure. Thanks! |
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Ok I remember he posted that now. Let me just put it this way, we have always intended to sell both window and windowless mags. I think 7Kopper was confused on the question. All our products go through initial issues as we move into production. Making 10 good parts of anything is one thing 10,000 is a completely different story. These mags are no different. Anyone having issues with these first run of mags can rest assured we will make things right as we have done in the past. |
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Would you guys pay for shipping? |
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Yes we will refund your shipping. It is important for us to confirm if the mags missed the cooling cycle or were not on the jig long enough. |
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Sorry about that. I thought he was asking if we had the capability of making both windowed and non windowed mags at the same time. There are different manufacturing processes for both mag versions. What I meant was the windowless will cease while the non windowed is going and vise versa. We will indeed continue to make both versions.
Quoted: Quoted: 7KOPPER: I'll gladly try these out as soon as they become available. Like a dozen or two. OMG these are so fuckin' HOT!!! To clarify, the first batch will be without windows?Correct Does that mean that when the windows version goes into production, the windowless will cease?Affirmative Thanks... |
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Will do. I am going to do a little more checking on the other 8; one of them exhibited the same issue. I should clarify though, that the magazines function 100% perfectly when loaded. It is only during dry fire or chamber checking, if the charging handle is not pulled back 100% of the distance, there is a spot where the action locks up, and won't release with the bolt release. Also, at this point, even pulling the charging handle back won't fix the issue, since the bolt is lock on the magazine, and won't retract. The only way to release the bolt is to drop the magazine. How fast do you think I will get replacements? Thanks. |
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Love the mags, nice design only one problem with me, will the replacement program also apply to the no fit in the FS2000? I got 9 of the no go's in the FS2000.
Thanks |
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Here is a pic of the problem I am having with HP ammo. As you can see the shell angles too far inward and gets caught up in the middle. FMJ and ammo that is more pointed work perfectly. i171.photobucket.com/albums/u317/kel3at/snow007.jpg Sure enough, I got mine today and have the same problem with my Colt 6920 loaded with BH 69gr. HP. The right bullet in the stack would catch in the exact same place on the edge of the feed ramp toward the middle of the extension. The left bullet in the stack, for some reason, would load okay albeit much further toward the center of the barrel extension than how my GI mags load them. Even the left-loading bullets just miss catching the edge of the feed cut. Otherwise, GREAT! Will the body geometry tweaks that you are working on cause mold adjustments to any of the other mag components? In other words, will any of the other components need to be exchanged along with the mag bodies so the unit is completely current and functional? |
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Took my P-mags out to test drive today. Same problem as above. Won't feed the top (30th) round. If I load 29, not an issue.
These were 62gr FMJ though. I seems like others are having trouble with HPs. I didn't have any 55gr to try, so I don't know if the same thing would have happend. Other than that, I dig 'em. If there is a remedy for the feed issue, I buy MANY, MANY more. Over. |
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