Hello;

Anyone actually use a 125/130 grain bullet in their 30/06-308win?  if so which bullet do you use???  Accuracy????  Effective on deer????  Thanks for any input.

rp

My #1 son has killed 5 deer with a .30-30 using Remington Managed Recoil load.  My #3 son has killed two with the same load.  It fires a 125gr. CoreLokt at a nominal 2175fps.  I've never run it over a chrony so I can't verify that.  It works well on rib cage shots, but from experience I would avoid shoulder shots on big deer.

ETA there are Managed Recoil loads for .308 and .30-06 that use the same weight bullet.  I don't know if it is actually the same or just the same weight.  I also don't know if it is available for reloading.

Generally speaking I do not use 125/130's for medium game (deer) in any medium or large capacity .30 case.  It is inappropriate.

The problem is not bullet wieght but rather bullet CONSTRUCTION.  In .30 caliber almost all 125's and 130's are designed to be light for caliber rapidly expanding bullets for use on varmints and little critters.  When driven to .308/30-06 speeds these bullets over expand, do so too rapidly, and do not hold together well enough for really good use on deer.  Yes.  They will work.  No they are not recommended.

You can use a 125 softpoint in a 308/3006 in youth loads.  When these are loaded to reduced velocities (for lower recoil) the bullets expand somewhat slower, penetrate deeper, and acutally do a better job on deer.  I do load a 125 remington SP in such a youth load.  Check Hodgdon. THey have published youth loads for .308, .30-06, and others...

As a general rule you can look at any caliber that is between .243/6mm and .30/7.62.  If the bullets are light for caliber they are designed, intended and constructed for use on little critters and open too rapidly for good use on deer.  If its heavy for caliber its constructed for use on deer and similar large critters.  Thus, a 100 grain 243 bullet is likely a decent deer bullet, while a 100 grain .30 bullet isn't.  

There are exceptions to the rule.  Generally speaking, you can get away with using the light for calibers on deer.  However, they tend to work BETTER as velocities are decreased.  If you want to find some actual documented experiences using a particular bulllet, look at handgun hunters.  Many of them use a variety of bullets in Contenders.  Lower velocities mean 'regular' deer bullets are going a little too slow for good performance.  They use light for caliber bullets, drive them at modest velocities (frequently 2200 to 2400 fps) and they get the job done well.

I've only been able to achieve modest accuracy using 125 Rem PSP over H4895 in a .308 Model Seven.  Recoil was not reduced as much as I had hoped. I ended up buying the daughter a Seven Youth .260, and load a Nosler 120 Ballistic Tip over AA2520 and get 1-1.5 MOA in with lower recoil.  THese are moving 2400 fps, and are dead ringers for the much esteemed 6.5 JDJ load.  I would not dream of using these 120 BT's at typical 2700-2800 fps speeds.  They work well at 2400 but are waaaaaaaaayyyy to fast opening to be used at 2700+

I agree with frozenny. That bullet weight is a little light. I'd step up to at least 165 grains for hunting deer.

We run a Hornady or Sierra 150 BTSP at a chronographed 2800+ fps, in several different 308s.  We get exceptional accuracy and really good performance on deer.

We did try Hornady 130s, but they expanded too much.  Not that they didn't penetrate well, they just blew too big of a hole in the deer's ribcage.  Not sure what speed they were running, as we didn't have the cronograph, then.  

ETA: We are running these in two Model 7s, one with 18" barrel and one in 20".  Difference is about 50fps between the barrels.  

I also agree with frozenny.  



I would also like to add that the Barnes 130 grain TSX in .308" probably has the sectional density of a standard 150 grain cup and core bullet, and the TSX will most certainly hold together even if it is over 3000 FPS.

223 and 6.8 Barnes TSX bullets are killing deer and hogs left and right.  Take the 110 TSX - put it in your 30 cal, push it around 3500 fps, and you have one hell of a flat shooting 30 cal.  Or, download it to a soft load at 3000 fps and let the young uns get after it.


58 gr RL 15 with the 110 pill gets right at 3510 fps from my 06 with 22 in barrel.  Fills the case 88%.  
53.1 gr RL 15 with the 110 pill gets the 3K fps from same rifle.  Fills the 06 case 78%.  I have not had any ignition problems with this.

ETA:  I had the percentages backwards.

When I first bought my deer rifle in .308 (24 yrs ago) I used Sierra 125 gr SPs.  They were loaded up with somewhere around 48 gr of H4895.  I have killed numerous MI deer with that load.  There are no issues with using that type of bullet for whitetails*.

*as with any load/bullet/caliber - shot placement and knowing the range limits are critical.

JMHO

With the extra speed of a lighter bullet, the Barnes TSX in 130 would be a hammer & would absolutely hold together. I use a 150 TSX in my .308, but only because the 130 didn't shoot as well. The construction of premium bullets like Barnes takes the worry of a light for caliber, higher speed bullet failure being possible. They will not fail.



I am a bit leery of using a heavy for caliber Barnes at slower speeds. Maybe not an issue, but in that situation, the old school bullets do a wonderful job, as they have for so many years.

My father used the Remington light loads last year, not sure what grain they were but they worked great!
He had to use them because he had eye surgery a week before season and the Dr was concerned the recoil from a 30-06 was too much right after surgery.

I have a similar question.  I'm looking for a light .308 bullet that will work well for deer at lower velocities.  I've got a 300/221 (300 Whisper) and a 7.62x40 wildcat.  The case size of these rounds limits them to using fairly light for caliber bullets (110-125) or you lose too much case capacity.  The 300/221 will push 110's to around 2100 fps and the 7.62x40 will push a 110 to around 2600 fps.  Are there any good .308 bullets that would work well in that velocity range in the light for caliber weights?  The 7.62x40 makes similar velocity and energy to the 30/30, which has been used for deer for decades, so I know it makes enough energy but it won't feed the stubby bullets typically used in the 30/30.

I looked at the 110gr Speer Hot-Cor, which is supposed to be designed to prevent core and jacket separation to promote penetration.  Would that be a suitable round for my application?

I would say yes.  But personally, I would use the Speer's for practice and use the Barnes TSX in 110gr to hunt with.  If I hit a shoulder, or two, I want something that will still hold together and possibly still punch through.  It may tear more up if you hit bone, but I would rather have that than lose a wounded animal.  Just my .02.  

Plus, what if a big a$$ hog walks out?  

My concern with the TSX is will the monolithic bullets open up at the lower velocities?  I figured they would behave like an FMJ at the velocities I can get from the two calibers I listed.

Oh, and hogs aren't much of a concern in my neck of the woods.

Aim for the head or a very precise shot to the neck.

If you are planning on using light bullets at lower velocities to get reduced recoil then you are going to give up something and that is effectiveness on bigger animals. When my kids use light bullets at lower velocity the rule is to avoid shoulder shots on big deer.

I certainly don't expect either of these calibers to perform like a .308.  The 7.62x40 has very similar ballistics to a 30/30, which has been taking whitetail for years, and there seem to be alot of proponents for using .223 for deer on this site (I'm not saying one of them) so I figured surely a smaller .30 could adequately do the job.  I understand they will have limitations compared to the larger .30's but I think they would be fun to use within those limitations.

Here's another thought, what about the Hornady FTX bullets (the LeveRevolution bullets)?  They only come in 150gr and up but I get ballisitics similar to a 30/30 from my 7.62x40.  Since the FTX bullets are designed for lever actions like the 30/30 they should work well at those velocities right?

My experiences with the Barnes TSX bullets do not lead me to believe that the bullet weight/construction combination of these bullets is not effective on deer/hogs at nominal ranges (300yds and under) at the velocities I have posted for my loads.  

Granted we don't hunt beanfields in E Tx, so our woodland shots are typically closer than what is common in other parts of the state, minus the pipelines and high lines.  Tx deer are not the biggest, but Pineywood hogs are not the Pekinese sized collared peccary's either.

I have had excelent results with the Barnes TSX bullets. I run them in my 25-06. I suspect a 308 or 30/06 with the 130 grain TSX would be an exceptional round on any whitetail under 300lbs and probably do fine for even giant whitetails. It would shoot flight, recoil lightly and still retain excelent terminal ballistics. It's important to realize with the solid copper barnes bullets that it is just fine to run one weight lower then you would with a standard bullet. This is because weight retention is typicall at or very near 100%. Standard cup and core bullets are typically close to 70-80%. The added weigth retention means superioir penetration even with lighter bullets. No question the 130grs will open up rapidly at the expected velocities.

I've considered trying the 130gr TSX in my 300wsm for that very reason. I suspect it would put whitetails down like a lightning bolt and shoot VERY flat out to 300 yards.

My uncle used a 300 savage loaded with 130 gr. Hornady sp. loaded to max velocity  for 30 years . Trust me it worked well. Never chronoed the load but the loading manual put it at 2900 fps.

If you want some definitive answers regarding what bullet works at low impactg velocities, try googling for any of the appropriate JDJ handgun rounds.  enough of 'em are out there, and have been used with enough frequency that people have figured out what works at low speeds...

As a general rule one of the 'go to" bullets for these applications is the Nosler Ballistic Tip.  These are somewhat 'explosive" at regular rifle speeds.  The open hard and fast.  I know I've been using them in a .308 at .300 Savage speeds for years.  They penetrate about 3 inches, open up and vaoprize a cantaloupe sized area of flesh, then taper off, punching out the far side with a small exist wound.  I would not want to use these at 3000 fps!!!  However, even nosler acknowledges that these (the hunting variety) will open up reliably at about 1800 fps impact speeds.  

If you launch the nosler 125 grain BT (hunting type) out of a Whisper it should perform near ideally.  They'll open up reliably and get it done..

Thanks for the tip on the Nosler 125.  I've been looking around and it seems to be an excellent bullet in this weight range that will work in my velocity window.

I spoke with a rep at Nosler today about the 125 hunting Ballistic Tip.  He said that as long as the impact veloicity was at least 1600 fps then the bullet would reliably expand and be effective on deer sized game.  According to my ballistics program that bullet would still be over 1600 at over 150 yards from my 300/221 and at over 300 yards from my 7.62x40.  I think the Nosler will be the way to go.

altair:

The Nosler rep echoed what the Tompson Contender crowd has known for some time:  The ballistic tips are just about the perfect lower velocity bullets....

The usual soft point is relatively tough.  They need to be humming along to open up well.  Handgun hunters have to typically contend with lower velocities.  The usual bullets don't open up fast enough at slow speeds, and minimal expansion makes for poor killers.  

The ballistic tips are soft.  They open hard and fast at 'normal speeds', sometimes too hard and too fast (they are damned grenades at speeds over 2800, and I would refuse to use em in anything hotter than an '06).  However, this tendency to expand really quickly (say at 2700-2800) means that these same bullets open up really nicely at modest 2200-2000 fps speed.  

I'm a real stickler for 'humane' hunting.  I believe I have an obligation to ensure my quarry does not suffer unnecessarily.  Over the years and a whole lotta deer I have come to the conclusion that the Nosler BT's are really quite effective at modest speeds.  I shoot a .308 Model Seven, and my handloads are actually relatively sedate (.300 Savage equivalent).  95% of my deer are dead right there.  The other 5% never go far. BOOOOM! plop.  Its over.  The wound track on a BT and just about another other soft point are totally different animals altogether.   The BT's at .300 savage speeds are totally liquifying very large grapefruit/small melon sized volumes of internals about 6-10" deep inside my deer.  I get pinhole exit wounds because the bullet is pretty much tapped out.  This is all at 2600 fos.

At 2200-2300 i'd expect that BT to act just like a conventional softpoint at normal speeds:  Decent expansion, modest wound tracks, complete penetration, and a decent exit...

This isn't my discovery.  I simply followed the many many years of accumulated experience of the handgun hunting crowd.  They did the hard work.  The BT works good at these speeds.  The Nosler BT's are the only bullet I seriously considered for my daughter's .260.  I wanted a reduced velocity/reduced recoil load.  I'm pushing 120 6.5mm BT's to just a tad over 2400.  I'd hunt any whitetail out there with this combo and do so without reservation.  It's not a 300 yard load, but then again, I don't shoot deer at 300 yards with any load....

SD is a mathematical relationship between diameter and weight. The 150 cup and core and the 130 TSX probably share similar length and penetrating ability though, and that would be my choice if using light for caliber bullets.

This has not been my experience.I often shoot a Sierra soft point in a .30-06 and have had very satisfactory results on deer.I choose my shots carefully and intend to hit the heart/lungs.Once the bullet has penetrated in to the chest cavity I really don't care if it comes apart or expands" too quickly".I have NEVER had a bullet fail to make it in to the chest cavity....Deer are not really very big and they are not hard to kill.......

I agree with the discussion on the Nosler 125 Ballistic Tips. At the 300-221 Fireball/300 Whisper velocities (muzzle velocity ~2200 fps from a 16 inch barrel) they work very well.  Another bullet to consider is the Speer 125 TNT. They also work like a regular expanding huntin bullet at the reduced velocitiy of the 300-221 Fireball.

Basically, at reduced velocities varmit bullets work like regular hunting bullets.

320pf

The other issue is what does you rifle shoot the best? I don't use the lighter bullets because my 30-06 really shines with the 165 GameKings. I tend to buy into the idea of find a load your rifle shoots well & dedicate it to that purpose. (ie if you have a really good deer set up leave it alone and buy another rifle for varmints etc) If $$$ are really tight then I understand having to make do but if you can do it, single purpose rifles using a single load makes sense to me.

Well I've been playing around with the 125gr Nosler and I'm getting 2400fps from a 16" AR with about 1.5 MOA accuracy in my 7.62x40 wildcat.  I think that will do just fine.  I could probably get another 100 fps if I pushed it but I think this will work well as is.

I've also gotten up to 2550 with 110's and I'm thinking the Barnes TSX would work at that velocity.  According to Barnes the 110 TSX expands down to 1800fps and the TTSX expands down to 1900fps.