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Posted: 12/15/2009 12:34:42 PM EDT
Ammo supply and price seems to be stabilizing, but it got me wondering...
Would a rifle that was able to be changed quickly and easily to fire mulit-calibers, even if it were a single shot, be of any use? I was thinking in calibers that are common but non-military. .243, .270, .30-30, .30-06, .357/.38 special, .44mag/special, .410, 20-gauge, etc. More for shooting if or when ammo for my main defensive rifles gets hard to find. Or when ammo in general gets hard to find. thoughts? |
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As a hunting rifle, a T/C contender or Encore is nice. I know they make a muzzle loader, but am not sure about a shotgun barrel –– plus any other cartridge in the world has a barrel available for it. Personally, i like quick follow up shot capability though ––- a single shot is usually sufficient, but everyone has "that one time" where they wished they had a follow up For the price of an Encore frame with a bag full of barrels, you could probably purchase 2 or 3 (or more) Weatherby Vanguards. There is room in my gunsafe for a Contender with the 10" .22 match Target barrel sometime though, but thats because its such a choice piece of iron ––- i have no interest in many of their other chamberings Some people swear by the Handi-rifles , i personally don't. they have a poor stock design which really thumps you with bigger calibers (the 45-70 is an ouchie) And this is me being a rifle snob, but i also don't like their appearance. Do the math on the cost of a Handi-rifle or Encore with a stack of the barrels you would want and then compare that with the price of a few single purpose built firearms ––- i know i could outfit myself with a Vanguard with a $200 scope , an 870 or Mossy shotgun, and a 10/22 for around a grand –– I'm not sure i could do that with a thompson/Center (although in fairness ––- the quality of the T/C firearms is above most discount bolt rifles and budget shotguns) |
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Ammo supply and price seems to be stabilizing, but it got me wondering... Would a rifle that was able to be changed quickly and easily to fire mulit-calibers, even if it were a single shot, be of any use? I was thinking in calibers that are common but non-military. .243, .270, .30-30, .30-06, .357/.38 special, .44mag/special, .410, 20-gauge, etc. More for shooting if or when ammo for my main defensive rifles gets hard to find. Or when ammo in general gets hard to find. thoughts? The problem is carrying all the barrels! That would get heavy if you where B.O if your B.I it might be a good idea. I'd look around your area and see what mostly on the shelves try to remember during the ammo drought what ammo was on the shelves and think of getting a rifle or pistol in that caliber! There was a pistol out back in the 1990 the Medusa Model 47 Can chamber, fire, and extract almost any cartridges in the .38/9mm/.357 ammunition range (Does not include .357 Sig) Link I was to young to buy one back them but would love one now if they made them. |
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I currently hunt with a H&R with a 22 inch bbl in 308, its also a quick change barrel with a .223 bbl as back up. the .308 will shoot honest 1/2 MOA all day long with the right load. I put a 3x12x40 Bushnell Banner on it, and a Rock solid bipod, all for right around $300.00. Its my designated heavy hitter or precision rifle. The only draw back with alot of these is you have to have a seperate scope already mounted on your spare barrel if using a scope, bipod is quick detach, so no problem there. IF I need suppressing fire I have my M1A, but for single shot work it cant be beat. just my humble opinion.
I also have the same setup in .17hmr, with a 22lr as back up. new barrels can be hand fitted at the factory for 140 or less. |
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it would be fine for hunting, but as a defensive weapon it would be a bad Idea.
if you already are not prepared for defense with a defensive weapon and several thousand rounds (in reserve) then you fail at preparedness. it should not matter what future laws or supplies are available, because you will already have what you need regardless. |
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I have a few, most in 223, one in 308, I think they are fine for teaching new shooters / hunters to make the shot count. Even more importently, it is very easy to verify that the firearm is unloaded. I do not have multiple barrels for any of mine. I plan on giving one per child as a first center fire rifle they can take on their own when they go for a walk, and so I have bought them used as I have found them.
Triggers are usually crappy, other than that, they are ok. Barrel twist is often fast in the earlier 223 models limiting you to 55 grain or less. |
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I used to have a handi-rifle in .22 hornet, and 20 gauge. I really liked it for sporting use. I use it mainly as a .22 hornet.
If I did not have alot to spend on firearms, and was just getting started, or, wanted a combo to leave somewere, the handi-rifle would be considered. If I'm not mistaken, you can only have one highpower rifle chabering per reciever, so you couldnt have one reciever for 30-06, 270 and 25-06, only one of those (or others) but then you can do about as many lower power as you want like 30-30, or 45-70, .223, .44 mag .500 s&w ect, dont forget the shotgun barrels too. If I was gonna get another, I think .308, .223, .44 mag, and 20 gauge would cover bases pretty well. wonder what that would cost? |
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As a hunting rifle, a T/C contender or Encore is nice. I know they make a muzzle loader, but am not sure about a shotgun barrel –– plus any other cartridge in the world has a barrel available for it. Personally, i like quick follow up shot capability though ––- a single shot is usually sufficient, but everyone has "that one time" where they wished they had a follow up For the price of an Encore frame with a bag full of barrels, you could probably purchase 2 or 3 (or more) Weatherby Vanguards. There is room in my gunsafe for a Contender with the 10" .22 match Target barrel sometime though, but thats because its such a choice piece of iron ––- i have no interest in many of their other chamberings Some people swear by the Handi-rifles , i personally don't. they have a poor stock design which really thumps you with bigger calibers (the 45-70 is an ouchie) And this is me being a rifle snob, but i also don't like their appearance. Do the math on the cost of a Handi-rifle or Encore with a stack of the barrels you would want and then compare that with the price of a few single purpose built firearms ––- i know i could outfit myself with a Vanguard with a $200 scope , an 870 or Mossy shotgun, and a 10/22 for around a grand –– I'm not sure i could do that with a thompson/Center (although in fairness ––- the quality of the T/C firearms is above most discount bolt rifles and budget shotguns) After owning both contenders and handi's and topper rifles I completely disagree with you on the stock design, as the poor stock design in my opinion is the contender/encore carbines. The pistol grip on the NEF/H&R's are one of the strong suits of these rifles. I own three topper rifles in 30-30 and these are light handy rifles and with a 22" barrel and a Leupold 20 mmm scope weigh in just under 6lbs. The 30-06 handi I once owned was a real accurate rifle after adding an oring to the forend stud to "sorta free float" it . This rifle always amazed people at the range with my handloads. I made a mistake in selling it to finance another project but I have always used my 30-30's for whitetail hunting anyway. I load these up with a Barnes 130 grain X bullet and a healthy charge of W748. So now my Contender is sold but my handi's and toppers remain. A real value here in Poverty Paradise where gun snobs are not tolerated |
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I should've added in the original post:
I already have rifles for defense, as well as a few rounds for them. They do need more ammo though, when money allows (I'm a full time student, working part time, and have a 4 year old.). Although, I am proud to say I just got dies and a few components to start doing .308 on my reloading press. This wouldn't be for any type of "bug out". |
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I should've added in the original post: I already have rifles for defense, as well as a few rounds for them. They do need more ammo though, when money allows (I'm a full time student, working part time, and have a 4 year old.). Although, I am proud to say I just got dies and a few components to start doing .308 on my reloading press. This wouldn't be for any type of "bug out". For each additional barrel you buy you could buy 50 to 100 rounds of good quality over the counter ammo. If you want another gun and can afford the gun the buy the gun because you want it. Get your man card out read the rules the repeat after me... I Want Another Gun. If money is tight then you probably will get the most shooting by getting ammo for the gun you got. If money is very tight and you have a place to shoot that is free then get a daisy pump pellet riffle. The pump air riffle is about the cheapest per shot you're gonna achieve. The rules for good marksmanship are the same no matter what you shoot. |
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One thing to consider is how many people can one man with an accurate rifle hold in position or decimate. not all encounters will be solved with overwhelming firepower and spray and pray, especially if resupply is not an option, Id much rather drop one or two shells and enemies then try and shoot two of them with a full twenty round mag. These guns are extremely comfortable the (NEF brands), I carry a stock ammo holder so I always have ten rounds on the gun. One in the chamber and nine in the stock sock. If you put down the people who poke their heads up or charge, well the moral and gumption goes out the rest real quick. just my humble opinion. ymmv
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+2 here on the Handi-Rifles. Have one in .30-30 and one in .308. Love them both.
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Handi rifles are excellent rifles for the money. Simple, praticle, reliable and accurate.
The fact that you can switch the barrels out for multiple calibers is a bonus. Everyone should have one. |
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So now my Contender is sold but my handi's and toppers remain. A real value here in Poverty Paradise where gun snobs are not tolerated I understand –––– my business is having a pretty slow year as well –– I still would rather have a couple of budget bolt rifles though . Heck, for th cash of a Handi rifle and 2 additional barrels –– the OP could just about get the base model Savage Tac rifle in .308 ––- since he is new to handloading for the 308 –– that would be a seriously fun gun to work up loads for due its out of the box potential –––– I know i know –– (holding my hands in the air) If the OP had wanted my unvarnished opinion, he would have PM'ed me though |
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So now my Contender is sold but my handi's and toppers remain. A real value here in Poverty Paradise where gun snobs are not tolerated I understand –––– my business is having a pretty slow year as well –– I still would rather have a couple of budget bolt rifles though . Heck, for th cash of a Handi rifle and 2 additional barrels –– the OP could just about get the base model Savage Tac rifle in .308 ––- since he is new to handloading for the 308 –– that would be a seriously fun gun to work up loads for due its out of the box potential –––– I know i know –– (holding my hands in the air) If the OP had wanted my unvarnished opinion, he would have PM'ed me though I have one of the said Savages...it's one of the main reasons I purchased the dies. (that an .308 is a $1+ a pop around here.) |
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also, another thought...
How good would something like this be for a youngster? I was thinking: .22 barrel, .410/20 gauge barrel, maybe .223 or something for later on. my little one needs to start shooting sometime in the near future, but I don't have a .22 for her. I don't really want to get one of those chipmunks because I think she'd outgrow it too fast, and it would have no value for me. |
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also, another thought... How good would something like this be for a youngster? I was thinking: .22 barrel, .410/20 gauge barrel, maybe .223 or something for later on. my little one needs to start shooting sometime in the near future, but I don't have a .22 for her. I don't really want to get one of those chipmunks because I think she'd outgrow it too fast, and it would have no value for me. Shop around. The local dicks sporting goods sells combo packs 243 22lr 20 gauge around $300. To the OP once you have the necessities in defensive firearms, your plan may be viable. Some of the factors determining that include bug in or bug out pre-positioning at a BOL or trying to hump it there etc. Another factor/use is arming the hire hand type deal. It is common (or was) for low level perimeter bodyguards in many third world countries to be given single shot shotgun and two shells. Why? Most folks don't want to suck a round. But if the guy goes postal or deserts or gets killed and the bad guy takes his gun well he has a single shot shotgun and two rounds. Potentially deadly but not real high on the "man we're fucked" list. Also, another possibility (though they are hard to find) would be a savage 24 (22lr/20gauge not hard to find) and some chamber inserts for the shotgun barrel (30-30, 357, 44 and I think 22 hornet among others––-those are the hard to find parts, and a gauge reducer to 410.). |
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So now my Contender is sold but my handi's and toppers remain. A real value here in Poverty Paradise where gun snobs are not tolerated I understand –––– my business is having a pretty slow year as well –– I still would rather have a couple of budget bolt rifles though . Heck, for th cash of a Handi rifle and 2 additional barrels –– the OP could just about get the base model Savage Tac rifle in .308 ––- since he is new to handloading for the 308 –– that would be a seriously fun gun to work up loads for due its out of the box potential –––– I know i know –– (holding my hands in the air) If the OP had wanted my unvarnished opinion, he would have PM'ed me though Actually streetstar, we are pretty much in agreement and think the OP should purchase more firearms. The bottom pic of what you posted is how all my handi's, Trackers(shotguns), and toppers are stocked like. The sharps style and the survivor style are not my cup of tea neither. The H&R line of single shots are not the value they used to be, but before the value of the dollar plummeted, they were a great shooting rifle that was more accurate than a cheap rifle oughta be |
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Light is good.....except when it comes to recoil. A Handi Rifle in a major caliber kicks like a jackass on steroids. NOT a good gun for new shooters in my opinion unless it's in a fairly minor caliber.
Also, the hammer makes it a poor choice for new shooters. If they get it cocked can they safely UNCOCK it? To "old hands" it's not that big of a deal but to kids or new shooters it can be problematic. I've seen more than one kid touch off a round accidently out of a single barrel shotgun trying to decock it on pheasant hunts with big gloves on etc.....I'll pass on Handi Rifles. I've found plenty of really good rifles at the pawn shops for not alot of money- bought a Winchester 70 in .243 last week for $180 with a 3x9 Weaver on it...... |
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By the time military calibers have dried up, hunting calibers will be even worse. At least a lot of folks keep a lot of 223, 308, 7.62x39 on hand, and most shops have a lot more of it one the shelves. Your average 30-30 owner or .270 owner might have, at best, 2 boxes of 20 at home left over from last hunting season. They will be scrounging up ammo long before you will be if you have done any basic preps, so buying extra barrels in those calibers would not seem wise to me. I think I would rather buy more ammo for what I already have, and add to that some inexpensive Mosin-Nagants and a few hundred rounds for them. A complete functional Mosin run the same price as a Handi-Rifle barrel, and surplus 7.62x54 ammo is very cheap. Since you handload, you can also load up some gallery style light laods for them that will work for small game at 50 yards. Complete guns > extra barrels. |
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My "multi-caliber" guns are Savage 24's, rifle over a shotgun. They break down easily and are pretty compact. I can choose from 222 Rem / 20 ga, 30-30 / 12 ga, 22 mag / 20 ga, 22L / 410 bore or 223 / 12 ga. All of the shotgun barrels will shoot up a 3" shell, all can be used with iron sights or with a scope w/ see thru rings. The Savage 24 is a simple break open design, very few parts to go bad and are compact enough to carry on a back pak or in a BO bag.
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I like the Handi-rifle style guns. My 9 year old son saved up his chore money, and birthday $ and we ordered a Rossi single shot .243 youth model for him for deer season. His first large caliber rifle. Good, reliable, and well built. Kind of bullet proof in my oponion and that can be a big plus for a survival weapon. The fanciest gun just becomes a club if it breaks, or jams.
Accuracy is average and 2"-3" at 100 yards is what his shoots with a decent simmons 3x9x40 scope on it. And for deer sized game in our area it works perfect for him. If I needed something for an inexperienced shooter, or as a backup in the truck, i would think this style would be perfect, or if the main use would be taking game for food, then a really good option. If you needed something for defense or even offense for the 2 legged variety then I would hope to have something with a little better rate of fire. And if I was looking at some long shots I have several bolt actions that would easily out shoot them at the longer ranges (300-500 yds) But you can't beat them for the price and reliability factor. |
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My experience is that the T/C system comes apart, and not necessarily when you want it to. Modularity comes at a price; it will not stay together as well as something that is permanently affixed, because it is not supposed to.
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Quoted: Outstanding post Sir.Quoted: I should've added in the original post: I already have rifles for defense, as well as a few rounds for them. They do need more ammo though, when money allows (I'm a full time student, working part time, and have a 4 year old.). Although, I am proud to say I just got dies and a few components to start doing .308 on my reloading press. This wouldn't be for any type of "bug out". For each additional barrel you buy you could buy 50 to 100 rounds of good quality over the counter ammo. If you want another gun and can afford the gun the buy the gun because you want it. Get your man card out read the rules the repeat after me... I Want Another Gun. If money is tight then you probably will get the most shooting by getting ammo for the gun you got. If money is very tight and you have a place to shoot that is free then get a daisy pump pellet riffle. The pump air riffle is about the cheapest per shot you're gonna achieve. The rules for good marksmanship are the same no matter what you shoot. I never understand this "need" to justify a gun purchase as survial related. |
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Here's a better idea... 5.56 and a Ciener or CMMG .22 conversion.
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Outstanding post Sir.
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I should've added in the original post: I already have rifles for defense, as well as a few rounds for them. They do need more ammo though, when money allows (I'm a full time student, working part time, and have a 4 year old.). Although, I am proud to say I just got dies and a few components to start doing .308 on my reloading press. This wouldn't be for any type of "bug out". For each additional barrel you buy you could buy 50 to 100 rounds of good quality over the counter ammo. If you want another gun and can afford the gun the buy the gun because you want it. Get your man card out read the rules the repeat after me... I Want Another Gun. If money is tight then you probably will get the most shooting by getting ammo for the gun you got. If money is very tight and you have a place to shoot that is free then get a daisy pump pellet riffle. The pump air riffle is about the cheapest per shot you're gonna achieve. The rules for good marksmanship are the same no matter what you shoot. I never understand this "need" to justify a gun purchase as survial related. before we start attacking the man card... there isn't a need to justify. There are many more firearms I'd rather have than a cheap handirifle, but they look rather practical. I'd sooner have a Garand, M1A, lever actioin .30-30, a few more bolt guns, an ar-10, and a bunch of uppers in different calibers for my ar...but that just isn't a possibility for at least 5 more years. (probably just in time for them to be banned). i've got my ducks in a row defensively, I was thinking more as a hunting/plinking rifle. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Outstanding post Sir.Quoted: I should've added in the original post: I already have rifles for defense, as well as a few rounds for them. They do need more ammo though, when money allows (I'm a full time student, working part time, and have a 4 year old.). Although, I am proud to say I just got dies and a few components to start doing .308 on my reloading press. This wouldn't be for any type of "bug out". For each additional barrel you buy you could buy 50 to 100 rounds of good quality over the counter ammo. If you want another gun and can afford the gun the buy the gun because you want it. Get your man card out read the rules the repeat after me... I Want Another Gun. If money is tight then you probably will get the most shooting by getting ammo for the gun you got. If money is very tight and you have a place to shoot that is free then get a daisy pump pellet riffle. The pump air riffle is about the cheapest per shot you're gonna achieve. The rules for good marksmanship are the same no matter what you shoot. I never understand this "need" to justify a gun purchase as survial related. before we start attacking the man card... there isn't a need to justify. There are many more firearms I'd rather have than a cheap handirifle, but they look rather practical. I'd sooner have a Garand, M1A, lever actioin .30-30, a few more bolt guns, an ar-10, and a bunch of uppers in different calibers for my ar...but that just isn't a possibility for at least 5 more years. (probably just in time for them to be banned). i've got my ducks in a row defensively, I was thinking more as a hunting/plinking rifle. I'm sorry but the post below (your original post) looks like your looking for justification to buy a gun and call it survival related........ But i'll try to play nice and give you my honest opinion of them as i know several people that have them....... they are an ok cheap~ gun relatively accurate from what i've seen I don't know anyone who's had one fail so from what i've seen they appear to be reliable. I'm not saying don't buy it buy two and all the brls you want if thats what you want...... I buy guns all the time i just dont try to say they are all survival related Ammo supply and price seems to be stabilizing, but it got me wondering... Would a rifle that was able to be changed quickly and easily to fire mulit-calibers, even if it were a single shot, be of any use? I was thinking in calibers that are common but non-military. .243, .270, .30-30, .30-06, .357/.38 special, .44mag/special, .410, 20-gauge, etc. More for shooting if or when ammo for my main defensive rifles gets hard to find. Or when ammo in general gets hard to find. thoughts? |
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before we start attacking the man card... there isn't a need to justify. There are many more firearms I'd rather have than a cheap handirifle, but they look rather practical. I'd sooner have a Garand, M1A, lever actioin .30-30, a few more bolt guns, an ar-10, and a bunch of uppers in different calibers for my ar...but that just isn't a possibility for at least 5 more years. (probably just in time for them to be banned). i've got my ducks in a row defensively, I was thinking more as a hunting/plinking rifle. ––- purchase a pistol caliber levergun, then you will have a "Handy-rifle". The 357 mag carbine is a neat little tool. More power than a pistol due to the extra barrel length, –– 8-10 round capacity, fast follow up shot capability with training, compact –––– if you handload, .357 /.38 plinking loads can be loaded for pennies. Load it up, and deer size game are a definite go at reasonable ranges. The lever guns are fun –––––––––– if you already have an AR and a surgical bolt rifle, i'd skip the switch barrel single shot rifles and get something fun instead . A compact levergun fits into a vehicle easilly and has an understated appearance compared to an aR (nothing to be afraid of here folks, just an old huntin' rifle) Your child is 4 right now –––– i dont know when you want to start her out, my nephew is 7 and he is not ready for a firearm yet. But id deal with that when the time comes and not worry about filling my closet with compromised firearms thinking she will grow into them . Chipmunks are easy to re-sell though. Henry also makes a compact lever action .22 scaled down for a child that an adult can still use. |
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