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Posted: 10/29/2009 6:20:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:21:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Fuck New Jersey.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:22:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
October 28, 2009 7:50 PM
N.J. Court Says Americans Have No Right To Buy Handguns
Posted by Declan McCullagh
(AP Photo/Judi Bottoni)A New Jersey appeals court has concluded that Americans have no Second Amendment right to buy a handgun.

In a case decided last week, the superior court upheld a state law saying that nobody may possess "any handgun" without obtaining law enforcement approval and permission in advance.

That outcome might seem like something of a surprise, especially after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled last year in the D.C. v. Heller case that the Second Amendment guarantees "the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation."

But New Jersey Appellate Division Judge Stephen Skillman wrote on behalf of a unanimous three-judge panel that Heller "has no impact upon the constitutionality of" the state law.

That's because, Skillman said, the Supreme Court did not strike down the District of Columbia's de facto handgun ban but instead simply ordered the city to issue a permit. In other words, while Americans may have the right in general to possess arms, the exact contours of that right have not been mapped, especially as the Second Amendment applies to state laws. (The court's majority opinion last year said: "We therefore assume that petitioners' issuance of a license will satisfy respondent's prayer for relief and do not address the licensing requirement.")

Look for the Supreme Court to revisit this question in a few months when it hears a case called McDonald v. Chicago. It's a constitutional challenge to Chicago's restrictive gun laws, which prohibit anyone from possessing firearms –– even in their homes –– "unless such person is the holder of a valid registration certificate for such firearm."

New Jersey's laws are similar. They say: "No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, nor receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire a handgun unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder... has first secured a permit to purchase a handgun as provided by this section."

Another section dealing with licensing says: "No person of good character and good repute in the community in which he lives, and who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in this section or other sections of this chapter, shall be denied a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card, except as hereinafter set forth." Some of the exceptions involve criminal records, for instance.

What prompted the current lawsuit was a request for a handgun purchase permit that Anthony Dubov submitted to the East Windsor Chief of Police. The police chief denied Dubov's request without giving any reason, in what the appeals court later ruled was a violation of state law. The current East Windsor police chief is William Spain.

Oddly, the trial judge upheld that denial, without asking the police chief to testify to explain himself (another violation of state law) and after taking the unusual step of contacting Dubov's previous employers to ask about his background.

Dubov's attorney, Michael Nieschmidt, argued that the state licensing scheme was unconstitutionally vague and therefore violated the Second Amendment.

Skillman concluded that while the Second Amendment doesn't apply, state law and precedent nevertheless required that Dubov receive more due process than he did. The appeals court wrote: "Accordingly, the trial court's affirmance of the police chief's denial of appellant's application for a firearms purchase permit is reversed, and the case is remanded for an evidentiary hearing in conformity with this opinion."
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/28/taking_liberties/entry5440647.shtml

This is going to get interesting.

This is a good thing I hope that this gets pushed up the chain.

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:22:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Sweet!  Another possible test case for incorporation!
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:23:03 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.


Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:24:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.



I can get behind that.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:24:43 AM EDT
[#6]
My prediction:

NJ will get bitch slapped.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:25:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Sooner or later the Court is going to have to address these Poll Taxes.
 



Of course, I always love how courts suddenly decide that rights the people have exercised for hundreds of years are suddenly not rights anymore.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:26:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.



I can get behind that.


+1
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:27:16 AM EDT
[#9]
FUCK NJ AND THE HORSE THEY ARE RIDING. THEY CAN GO ROT SOMEWHERE AS FAR AS I CARE.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:28:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Bill Clinton plays games with the definition of terms.

Far too many see that as an acceptable practice.

"shall not be infringed" seems pretty clear to me.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:28:55 AM EDT
[#11]



wow. what were the chances that one of the most anti-gun states in the nation, with one of the highest percentage of liberal/socialist voters, would decide that the second doesn't apply...? i never would have guessed.


Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:29:58 AM EDT
[#12]
It sounds like all this douchebag judge was doing is back up the draconian state law.



The fact that he added his little communist opinion really means nothing.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:30:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.



I can get behind that.


my inlaws are there. im down for the FU NJ!!!
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:30:11 AM EDT
[#14]
A comedian once said:

"I was banned by the mayor of Newark (NJ) from the Newark airport.  Now I'll have to get there the way everyone else does - through a series of bad decision."


I guess they should start buying their 'assault rifles' then.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:30:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Taking a case to the appellate level to get a pistol permit- an expensive piece of paper.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:34:07 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
This is going to get interesting.


Especially for the anti's.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:37:41 AM EDT
[#17]
That handgun law is basically the same here in Michigan.  You must either possess a valid CPL or obtain a Pistol Purchase Permit in order to acquire a handgun.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:38:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.



I can get behind that.


my inlaws are there. im down for the FU NJ!!!


My wife is from there , and I concur... FOAD, NJ.

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:40:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.


Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:43:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.


Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:43:57 AM EDT
[#21]
OST
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:47:42 AM EDT
[#22]
NJ is the next Michigan.
their net population loss over the last 10 years is pretty high, according to the fat guy running for governor. He sounds antigun, too, so he can go pound sand just like Corzine.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:48:03 AM EDT
[#23]
The appellate court basically kept to the current law. Basically the police chief and the trial judge f`ed up. They know the USSC is going to revisit the issue.   They`re not going to change until the Bill of Rights is rammed down their throats
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:51:22 AM EDT
[#24]
You mean there's people that still live in nj.........FUCK NJ and fuck your courts....
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:51:57 AM EDT
[#25]
It isn't a RIGHT...........IF, one has to fill out an application to own an item.

Then...........have you ever noticed that you don't need to fill out an application to "voice an opinion" (i.e. free speech)?

Aloha, Mark


Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:51:58 AM EDT
[#26]




Quoted:

Sweet! Another possible test case for incorporation!




Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:52:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Fuck NJ State Gov't, politicians, special interest, liberal douchbags, democrats, etc etc but not all NJ residents automatically fall under the aforementioned categories. Some of us are gun owners and are sick and tired of this shit and will fight tooth and nail against this typical NJ political style of bullshit.

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:52:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Taking a case to the appellate level to get a pistol permit- an expensive piece of paper.


What prompted the current lawsuit was a request for a handgun purchase permit that Anthony Dubov submitted to the East Windsor Chief of Police. The police chief denied Dubov's request without giving any reason, in what the appeals court later ruled was a violation of state law. The current East Windsor police chief is William Spain.


Its not like he had a choice.  We have the same problem in MA, a CLEO can deny for being 'unsuitable', which is undefined in law.  Which means he can deny you for whatever reason he comes up with.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:52:51 AM EDT
[#29]
I don’t spend my money in NJ.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:53:08 AM EDT
[#30]
Can someone explain to me the appeal of living in the People's Democratic Republic of New Jersey?
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:55:06 AM EDT
[#31]
Time to saddle up and invade that communist shithole and occupy it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 6:58:36 AM EDT
[#32]
funny thing is many battles of the American revolution were fought in NJ and even stranger is that many of the patriots were lead by their local pastors.

from Patriots to Communists in less then 300 years
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:00:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
NJ is the next Michigan.
their net population loss over the last 10 years is pretty high, according to the fat guy running for governor. He sounds antigun, too, so he can go pound sand just like Corzine.


no duh. they all move here.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:00:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
The appellate court basically kept to the current law. Basically the police chief and the trial judge f`ed up. They know the USSC is going to revisit the issue.   They`re not going to change until the Bill of Rights is rammed down their throats


My guess is that the USSC is going to stuff it up a different orifice.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:04:41 AM EDT
[#35]


A highly-restrictive permit requirement does not enable one to exercise of an explicit constitutional "right", but rather allows one to enjoy a privilege granted by the state.



IOW, New Jersey is simply saying that the 2nd Amendment is a privilege granted by the state, not a right protected by the Constitution.



And if such a similarly highly-restrictive permit requirement granted by the state were first needed in order to attend the church of one's choice or to buy a book or to print a newsletter or to be secure from unreasonable search and seizure or to speak publicly or to petition gov't - no such permit requirement would be deemed constitutional.  




Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:05:39 AM EDT
[#36]





Quoted:



Can someone explain to me the appeal of living in the People's Democratic Republic of New Jersey?



Apparently it's not New York City.





Close, but not quite.
 
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:06:44 AM EDT
[#37]



Quoted:


Can someone explain to me the appeal of living in the People's Democratic Republic of New Jersey?


For many people, it is "the evil that you know", as well as the fact that it is 'home'.  



When you are born and raised somewhere, grow up and get a job close to you parents, and put down roots, it is a difficult thing to relocate to a foreign part of the world.  



How many of us would flock to, say New Zeland, if they were to become a firearms owner's utopia?  Not many, I dare say.  Much of what we love about our home state has little to do with shooting.  How many say, "If it weren't for the awesome gun laws, I would bounce out of this shithole in a heartbeat!"



Voting with your feet is not something that most are capable of, unless the offenses are egregious on more than one front.



 
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:14:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.




Oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry.  What I meant to say was:

FUCK NEW JERSEY !!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:15:25 AM EDT
[#39]
NJ doesn't even allow its residents to pump their own gas.

It's a fucking nanny-state to the bone, and Newark smells like shit.

Fuck that cesspool.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:16:06 AM EDT
[#40]
As stated, another good candidate for incorporation.

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:16:11 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Can someone explain to me the appeal of living in the People's Democratic Republic of New Jersey?

For many people, it is "the evil that you know", as well as the fact that it is 'home'.  

When you are born and raised somewhere, grow up and get a job close to you parents, and put down roots, it is a difficult thing to relocate to a foreign part of the world.  

How many of us would flock to, say New Zeland, if they were to become a firearms owner's utopia?  Not many, I dare say.  Much of what we love about our home state has little to do with shooting.  How many say, "If it weren't for the awesome gun laws, I would bounce out of this shithole in a heartbeat!"

Voting with your feet is not something that most are capable of, unless the offenses are egregious on more than one front.
 


I understand that, I meant it as a rhetorical question.  I lived in Brooklyn/NYC for a couple years.  I hated living there, but that's where my job took me at the time.  I couldn't wait to leave and the first chance I got I took it.  I then moved to Virginia.  I'd go back to VA. I was born and raised in Florida.  I moved back to Florida at the request of my parents, as they are elderly and wanted me close to help out.  Once they are gone (which I hope isn't anytime soon, but my dad is 89) I will probably consider moving elsewhere.  I still go back to NYC once a month to visit my daughter who lives there with my ex-wife.  But, I won't ever move back to the NYC metro area.  

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:16:58 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
FUCK NJ AND THE HORSE THEY ARE RIDING. THEY CAN GO ROT SOMEWHERE AS FAR AS I CARE.


Well, I hope not.  The few remaining good states don't need their rotting, locust carcasses (their failed policies) littering our grounds.

They should stay there and enjoy the fruits of their complacency.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:20:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Taking a case to the appellate level to get a pistol permit- an expensive piece of paper.


I don't know the details of this case, but generally speaking, a lone citizen is not footing the bill.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:39:40 AM EDT
[#44]
This is nothing new, and one of the reasons I left NJ...

if you read NJ state law, they specifically BAN GUNS, then define a process to make "exceptions" (aka FID card and handgun purchase permits) which is constantly violated by local police departments.

for instance, according to state law, as cited in the article the FID card and handgun purchase permits should be issued to any citizen in good standing there is also a caveat for within 30 days... my FID card took 7 months to receive and several phone calls to both my township PD and the NJ state police to get it resolved, turns out on top of the already atrocious gun laws the state has, local police chiefs institute their own form of gun control by routinely violating the 30 day provision and refusing to sign off on the permits once the background check is complete. Same thing happened with handgun permits until they realized i wasn't just going to lay down and take it...

the other thing that my township liked to do was try and charge you for fingerprinting EVERY TIME you went to get a handgun purchase permit at like $55 a pop... my FID card cost me something like $90 for state background check, fingerprinting, and card fee. they wanted that much everytime i wanted a handgun. on top of it, gun shops in NJ routinely charge $20+ for NICS. I've been to a couple places that wanted $20 PER GUN b/c they claimed they needed to do a separate NICS call for each firearm. I don't know many people that can afford $100 in ridiculous fees (half the price of an NFA tax stamp) every time they want a gun.
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:42:02 AM EDT
[#45]
God, a lot of fucking hate here. By the sentiment here you would think that NJ was another Iran or some other fundamentalist shithole.
Some of us are stuck here for various reasons, other choose to stay for their own reasons, shit some would even simply rather stay and fight than to move another state who, by the looks of the comments here, resents us moving to there anyway...
Like I said, hate the NJ state govt, hate the liberals who infest this place, hate the corruption etc etc just keep in mind that when you say "fuck NJ let it rot in hell or someone blanket statement, there are still a lot of good people left here.
Flame away at the n00b now I can take it, shit I live in NJ, if I can stomach the bullshit I see every day here, I can certainly take anything you guys throw at my sorry ass

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:43:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
NJ is the next Michigan.
their net population loss over the last 10 years is pretty high, according to the fat guy running for governor. He sounds antigun, too, so he can go pound sand just like Corzine.


Yep I heard him on the news yesterday. Pretty cut-and-dried and unapologetic anti.

Quoted:
Quoted:
Taking a case to the appellate level to get a pistol permit- an expensive piece of paper.


What prompted the current lawsuit was a request for a handgun purchase permit that Anthony Dubov submitted to the East Windsor Chief of Police. The police chief denied Dubov's request without giving any reason, in what the appeals court later ruled was a violation of state law. The current East Windsor police chief is William Spain.


Its not like he had a choice.  We have the same problem in MA, a CLEO can deny for being 'unsuitable', which is undefined in law.  Which means he can deny you for whatever reason he comes up with.


We here are also a "May Issue" state, but I haven't heard of any problems getting a CCW, and have not personally had an issue. However, it appears NJ is a "Shall Issue" state,

Another section dealing with licensing says: "No person of good character and good repute in the community in which he lives, and who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in this section or other sections of this chapter, shall be denied a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card, except as hereinafter set forth."


so the applicant shouldn't have had to go thru this BS. My guess is the original Chief figured he wouldn't go thru the crap to get what he should have been issued with no hassle.

Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:46:27 AM EDT
[#47]
LOL - Make all cops carry a long gun every where they go
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:48:57 AM EDT
[#48]
So was this case brought by the "good guys" in order to get the good parts of heller incorporated? Or is this case being orchestrated by the "bad guys" in order to get so called "resonable restrictions" incorporated?



Which side is playing this fiddle?
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 7:48:57 AM EDT
[#49]
My girl friend told me to kiss her where it stinks....
 
So I took her to New Jersey! Oh!
Link Posted: 10/29/2009 8:00:02 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Fuck New Jersey.


This.

Fuck all of those liberal socialist shitholes.
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