User Panel
Posted: 9/2/2009 9:19:43 PM EDT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTTYyO_8N9M
http://www.esnips.com/web/HamblenvsUnitedStates Discussion on Facebook PLEASE LINK TO THIS THREAD IN AS MANY FORUMS AS YOU CAN! |
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Important stuff. |
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So important, that when I follow the link I still get ZERO information about what the case is.
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How'd he get the auto M16's?
Anyway, he seems to have an interesting position in the fact that he is a undeniably a member of the "militia". |
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so, a soldier is being denied proper weapons... pretty cut and dry to me
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He acquired parts kits and assembled them. The weapons were: three M1919A4 Brownings chambered for 7.62 NATO, four G3 select fire rifles in 7.62 NATO, and two MG42/MG1 chambered for 7.62 NATO.
Although he built these weapons with the intent of using them in the state guard, they were personally owned by himself and were unregistered. His argument is that he needs to be armed to the equivalent of the guard. This guy has balls. BIG HUGE FUCKING BALLS. |
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you will notice a distinct absence of K9 companionship in that video....opsec?
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He acquired parts kits and assembled them. The weapons were: three M1919A4 Brownings chambered for 7.62 NATO, four G3 select fire rifles in 7.62 NATO, and two MG42/MG1 chambered for 7.62 NATO. Although he built these weapons with the intent of using them in the state guard, they were personally owned by himself and were unregistered. His argument is that he needs to be armed to the equivalent of the guard. This guy has balls. BIG HUGE FUCKING BALLS. The unorganized militia should be able to own full auto magazine and belt fed weapons as well as anyone participating in the organized militia. |
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Idiot...
As a government agency, the Tennessee State Guard would be able to forms for machine guns, if whoever was running the show approved of it...and I really don't think that if they would be deployed to the sandbox without the Feds arming them... Heller does not protect your right to own machine guns. Hope he enjoys Club Fed. |
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I think the guy fucked up, got caught, and is trying to make this into something.
Seems like a nice guy and all but he's going to be serving some jail time. |
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I think the guy fucked up, got caught, and is trying to make this into something. Seems like a nice guy and all but he's going to be serving some jail time. Yup... |
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I think the guy fucked up, got caught, and is trying to make this into something. Seems like a nice guy and all but he's going to be serving some jail time. Yup... He already served the jail time. |
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He acquired parts kits and assembled them. The weapons were: three M1919A4 Brownings chambered for 7.62 NATO, four G3 select fire rifles in 7.62 NATO, and two MG42/MG1 chambered for 7.62 NATO. Although he built these weapons with the intent of using them in the state guard, they were personally owned by himself and were unregistered. His argument is that he needs to be armed to the equivalent of the guard. This guy has balls. BIG HUGE FUCKING BALLS. The unorganized militia should be able to own full auto magazine and belt fed weapons as well as anyone participating in the organized militia. Uh, yes. Every citizen of the U.S. should be allowed unrestricted access to firearms. |
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He acquired parts kits and assembled them. The weapons were: three M1919A4 Brownings chambered for 7.62 NATO, four G3 select fire rifles in 7.62 NATO, and two MG42/MG1 chambered for 7.62 NATO. Although he built these weapons with the intent of using them in the state guard, they were personally owned by himself and were unregistered. His argument is that he needs to be armed to the equivalent of the guard. This guy has balls. BIG HUGE FUCKING BALLS. The unorganized militia should be able to own full auto magazine and belt fed weapons as well as anyone participating in the organized militia. Uh, yes. Every citizen of the U.S. should be allowed unrestricted access to firearms. This, everyone else is wrong according to the Constitution. |
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Quoted: You're right, because that is a mere court decision. However, the 2A surely does allow for us to keep and bear arms. The rate of fire of a given firearm should not even come into the discussion of whether an given firearm is protected on the 2A.Idiot... As a government agency, the Tennessee State Guard would be able to forms for machine guns, if whoever was running the show approved of it...and I really don't think that if they would be deployed to the sandbox without the Feds arming them... Heller does not protect your right to own machine guns. Hope he enjoys Club Fed. He also makes a legitimate claim over the Hughes amendment. The Feds refuse to accept a tax payment for a firearm, then prosecutes a person for not having a tax stamp for the very same a FA firearm they refused to accept a tax for. |
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He acquired parts kits and assembled them. The weapons were: three M1919A4 Brownings chambered for 7.62 NATO, four G3 select fire rifles in 7.62 NATO, and two MG42/MG1 chambered for 7.62 NATO. Although he built these weapons with the intent of using them in the state guard, they were personally owned by himself and were unregistered. His argument is that he needs to be armed to the equivalent of the guard. This guy has balls. BIG HUGE FUCKING BALLS. Thanks for the info. Fortunately, that felony will not screw him over for life. He owns his own business, so he can go right back to work when he gets out of jail. |
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He could of easily had a Form 5 filed. He did this on purpose. Hopefully, although its a longshot, this will result in the ATF being forced to take tax payments for Form 4, and Form 1 machine guns.
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Quoted: Quoted: He acquired parts kits and assembled them. The weapons were: three M1919A4 Brownings chambered for 7.62 NATO, four G3 select fire rifles in 7.62 NATO, and two MG42/MG1 chambered for 7.62 NATO. Although he built these weapons with the intent of using them in the state guard, they were personally owned by himself and were unregistered. His argument is that he needs to be armed to the equivalent of the guard. This guy has balls. BIG HUGE FUCKING BALLS. Thanks for the info. Fortunately, that felony will not screw him over for life. He owns his own business, so he can go right back to work when he gets out of jail. And as a Felon, especially one convicted of violating the NFA, he will never be able to own another firearm, ever again. Sounds pretty screwed to me. |
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I was a member of the TNSG from 2001 until a couple of years ago, and so I have some familiarity with that organization.
Everything I say here, while based on facts and experience, is my opinion only, so take it for what it's worth. I've heard that the TNSG has custody of a few A1s from the TNG (Tennessee National Guard), but I'm not sure if the TNSG actually owns them, or if they even have a secure place to store them outside of the TNG armory. (When I was active, we used loaners from the TNG because the TNSG had no weapons of its own, and TNG personnel supervised the training.) They do shoot them at Annual Training some years, if there is any leftover ammo that the TNG feels like letting the TNSG use, which seems to be about every other year. When the "training" does take place, everybody gets to shoot a magazine or two at a 25 yard target. This is not shooting for score and qualifying as in the "real" military, but is more of a fam-fire. The so-called firearms training notwithstanding, the TNSG is not an armed force. Despite the statutory language, the State of Tennessee does not let TNSG personnel handle any weapons whatsoever except for those few minutes at AT, once a year (at best). By law, the TNSG can not be deployed overseas. The force reports to the governor and cannot be federalized. The force is not deployed, but members are to be called to respond to certain emergencies. TNSG personnel would theoretically remain at a location for 72 hours, after which the National Guard or other agency such as FEMA would take over. The TNSG has no currently defined mission. During WW2 the TNSG (which was armed during that period) guarded infrastructure and ran the NG armories while the units were deployed, but between the time it was reconstituted in 1985 and 9-11-2001 it was pretty much a coffee-and-war-story club. After 9-11, a lot of new people joined, but the leadership still wanted to remember the good old days. There was a lot of talk about becoming a security force, or search and rescue, but the no-guns policy killed the first one, and the age and physical condition of the members pretty much precluded the latter. (With few exceptions, prospective members must have prior military experience, which effectively prevents most young people from joining.) There were some useful one-time missions, such as the care and feeding of some Katrina evacuees and helping secure a university after a tornado, but no overall mission at the organizational level. Within a couple of years, the self-interested leadership, the posers, the wannabees and the empire-builders had pretty much run off a great many of the good people. There was one detachment that developed a relationship with the Air Force and was augmenting their security forces at the ANG base for a year or so, but when TNSG leadership found out they were training with actual firearms (shotguns) this came to a screeching halt and a few goats were scaped. There's always some new mission just over the horizon that never comes to pass, and most TNSG members spend their time saluting each other, playing soldier for a day, and then writing reports about it and giving medals to their friends and political allies within the organization. Despite the claim of TNSG membership of 3500 made in the video, the actual number of active members is far less. There may be a couple of thousand on paper, but I'd be surprised if there are more than 500 active members, statewide. While there are Regiments, Battalions and Companies on paper, the Battalions are company sized and the Regiments usually have only one active battalion, with headquarters staff sucking up many of the available people. I would like to know how many people are active in Hamblen's unit, but I'd bet it's the size of an understrength company, at best. So, you have an unpaid, mostly untrained, volunteer member of a reserve state militia which has no mission, that is officially prohibited from touching firearms, and which cannot be activated beyond state borders, who is busted (as I understand it to have happened) showing his illegal machine guns to some folks in a public park, and who claims he needs said illegal weapons for his "State Guard duties." I wish him luck; he's gonna need it, especially if anyone fact-checks his assertions. In the interest of full disclosure: I was active in the TNSG from right after 9-11 until about 2007. I came in as a Captain, based on my prior Air Force rank, and was promoted to Major in 2005. I commanded a Battalion for a year or so, was involved in setting up the detachment mentioned above, and then went to work for a Brigadier at HQ in Nashville who wanted to turn the TNSG into an effective organization. After a couple of frustrating years at HQ watching every effort by myself and others to advance the TNSG into a capable force with a relevant mission be defeated or co-opted, I regretfully left the TNSG and moved to another military-related organization (federal, this time) which, while it doesn't use firearms, at least has a useful mission and appreciates its members. Quoted: Idiot... As a government agency, the Tennessee State Guard would be able to forms for machine guns, if whoever was running the show approved of it...and I really don't think that if they would be deployed to the sandbox without the Feds arming them... Heller does not protect your right to own machine guns. Hope he enjoys Club Fed. |
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At no point in his video did he say that Heller protects anything in regards to his machineguns. His assertion is that Miller should have been binding on his case, specifically that as an organized militia member he was entitled to own weapons that were the same as active duty military are issued. The only thing Heller is really helping with is the fact that now that Heller is out there he may be allowed to carry his civil case to the supreme court based on Hellers "2nd ammendment is an individual right" argument.
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At no point in his video did he say that Heller protects anything in regards to his machineguns. His assertion is that Miller should have been binding on his case, specifically that as an organized militia member he was entitled to own weapons that were the same as active duty military are issued. The only thing Heller is really helping with is the fact that now that Heller is out there he may be allowed to carry his civil case to the supreme court based on Hellers "2nd ammendment is an individual right" argument. Fingers crossed. |
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I have a feeling that the BATFE is going to pave a 8 lane highway right up his ass.... or would it be the Treasury Dept.
Either way... Interstate size road. No traffic signals. |
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If anyone wants to talk to Hamblen, he's actively participating in this thread: Keep your laws off my guns
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i have no idea hwo to post in that discussion. I've never use the function on facebook before. Am I retarded or something?
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Quoted: Quoted: He acquired parts kits and assembled them. The weapons were: three M1919A4 Brownings chambered for 7.62 NATO, four G3 select fire rifles in 7.62 NATO, and two MG42/MG1 chambered for 7.62 NATO. Although he built these weapons with the intent of using them in the state guard, they were personally owned by himself and were unregistered. His argument is that he needs to be armed to the equivalent of the guard. This guy has balls. BIG HUGE FUCKING BALLS. The unorganized militia should be able to own full auto magazine and belt fed weapons as well as anyone participating in the organized militia. He was a member of the STATE GUARD. That means ORGANIZED, just not "federalizable". They serve alongside the state's National Guard, only their chain of command splits at the state, reverting to the governor. |
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i have no idea hwo to post in that discussion. I've never use the function on facebook before. Am I retarded or something? You have to join the group before you can post to their discussions. |
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So what are the ramifications if/when he loses?
I've got a bad feeling this case is gonna set a precedent we do not want if he loses... |
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to any layman, this is pretty cut and dry (whether you agree with it or not, it is in the constitution, and thus either the constitution must be followed, or this "living breathing document" must be altered as to fulfill the interests of the politicians in power)
First, read the second amendment. now people like to argue that it does not grant the right of firearm ownership to inividuals but military (militias). first, Heller proved that it does infact grant this right to individuals. Second, read the constitution, specifically title 10 section 311which states (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. thus, all able bodied men between 17 a and 45 who are citizens of this country are members of a militia, be it formal or informal... organized and unorganized. the founders wrote this for a reason. it was not only the american army which fought the british but also minute men... militia men... farmers, shop keepers, black smiths, ect who won us our independence from the british. |
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This could end badly Fuckin A it could. Although, my understanding of the US v Miller decision is that arms used by the military are protected under the 2A. And DC v Heller protect and individual right to keep arms, not associated with the militia. But, even SCOTUS and the Feds were REAL worried about how far the Heller decision would go. The Fed brief that supported the DC gun an mentioned machine guns quite often. |
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*
* disclaimer: Actual right subject to infringement. Government entities may add additional hurdles at whim, including but not limited to: taxes, forms, background checks, identification cards, more taxes, asset forfeiture, pointless prosecution designed to bankrupt you, door kicking, dog shooting, spouse shooting, prostate exams and federal prison (soap on a rope provided for a small fee). Disclaimer disclaimer: Your shoestrings are machine guns and the ATF has banned them, enjoy your Velcro bitches. |
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This could end badly what do you mean "could"? He's making an assertation that because he is in the state guard, he needs military-equivalent weapons...despite the fact that the state guard, as an organization, is prohibited by the very state law that formed it from having/using weapons. He has no more rights than any other citizen in any other social club...which is what the officially unarmed state guard amounts to. I agree...ATF and/or Treasury are going to pave an 8-lane freeway up his ass. |
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This could end badly what do you mean "could"? He's making an assertation that because he is in the state guard, he needs military-equivalent weapons...despite the fact that the state guard, as an organization, is prohibited by the very state law that formed it from having/using weapons. He has no more rights than any other citizen in any other social club...which is what the officially unarmed state guard amounts to. I agree...ATF and/or Treasury are going to pave an 8-lane freeway up his ass. But what will it mean for the rest of us when they do pave that 8-lane freeway up his ass? |
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.* * disclaimer: Actual right subject to infringement. Government entities may add additional hurdles at whim, including but not limited to: taxes, forms, background checks, identification cards, more taxes, asset forfeiture, pointless prosecution designed to bankrupt you, door kicking, dog shooting, spouse shooting, prostate exams and federal prison (soap on a rope provided for a small fee). Disclaimer disclaimer: Your shoestrings are machine guns and the ATF has banned them, enjoy your Velcro bitches. Well, since everything belongs to the .gov in communist countries they are free to do with it what they want. |
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Wish full auto ownership didn't have so many restrictions. I'd conceal carry a glock 18 and have an mp5k or three for zombies.
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This could end badly what do you mean "could"? He's making an assertation that because he is in the state guard, he needs military-equivalent weapons...despite the fact that the state guard, as an organization, is prohibited by the very state law that formed it from having/using weapons. He has no more rights than any other citizen in any other social club...which is what the officially unarmed state guard amounts to. I agree...ATF and/or Treasury are going to pave an 8-lane freeway up his ass. But what will it mean for the rest of us when they do pave that 8-lane freeway up his ass? Maybe "pay your $200 tax to get your select-fire goody"? |
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Wish full auto ownership didn't have so many restrictions. I'd conceal carry a glock 18 and have an mp5k or three for zombies. It doesn't. It's a $200 tax and a form signed off by your local sheriff. |
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This could end badly what do you mean "could"? He's making an assertation that because he is in the state guard, he needs military-equivalent weapons...despite the fact that the state guard, as an organization, is prohibited by the very state law that formed it from having/using weapons. He has no more rights than any other citizen in any other social club...which is what the officially unarmed state guard amounts to. I agree...ATF and/or Treasury are going to pave an 8-lane freeway up his ass. How are they going to do that, exactly? He has already been to prison for this, what are they gonna do, send him back? |
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It did end badly for Rich Hamblen. He spent 14 months in a federal penitentiary!!!!
The worst outcome would be for his case to forever remain in obscurity. That's why it must be spread around and discussed. Light must be shown and attention given to this situation because it does effect every one of us. |
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Wish full auto ownership didn't have so many restrictions. I'd conceal carry a glock 18 and have an mp5k or three for zombies. It doesn't. It's a $200 tax and a form signed off by your local sheriff. That's a bit...obtuse. |
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Wish full auto ownership didn't have so many restrictions. I'd conceal carry a glock 18 and have an mp5k or three for zombies. It doesn't. It's a $200 tax and a form signed off by your local sheriff. No, it's a $200 dollar tax, paperwork, local sheriff, $20,000 each for the MP5K, and no G18 because they were made after 1986... Yeah, very easy! No problem at all for us normal people. |
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Great. So say he wins his case... so the Sate Militias get to have MGs...
In what way does that help us 'non' state militias? The court will surely make it very clear that the ruling only applies to State Militias.... and you can't say we would be considered the same thing as the TN State Guard has the seal of the state... normal non militas do not. So how is this helpful to us again? I mean I'd love to see the 86 shit go away... but did he even mention that? I' honestly ok with the $200 tax stamp, as that is an incentive for the govt to provide it, they get money. One more reason to allow these NFA purchases... |
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This could end badly what do you mean "could"? He's making an assertation that because he is in the state guard, he needs military-equivalent weapons...despite the fact that the state guard, as an organization, is prohibited by the very state law that formed it from having/using weapons. He has no more rights than any other citizen in any other social club...which is what the officially unarmed state guard amounts to. I agree...ATF and/or Treasury are going to pave an 8-lane freeway up his ass. But what will it mean for the rest of us when they do pave that 8-lane freeway up his ass? Maybe "pay your $200 tax to get your select-fire goody"? I'm talking about when he loses... What if they say "Heller does not protect 'machineguns'" thereby establishing that certain classes of guns are not protected, which open precedent for the anti-gunners to say heller doesn't protect ARs/AKs etc... |
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There are better ways to challenge a law than to violate it. You can sue because the government has rejected your application or because their stated laws/regulations/policies have chilled your actions.
Frankly, building MGs and claiming 2A hurts our cause more than helps it. I hope he enjoys prison, because thats where he's going. Kharn |
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Quoted: I'm talking about when he loses... What if they say "Heller does not protect 'machineguns'" thereby establishing that certain classes of guns are not protected, which open precedent for the anti-gunners to say heller doesn't protect ARs/AKs etc... Not going to happen. There is the "In common use" standard and right now the semi auto AR15 is the most "in common use" centerfire long gun in the country. No way they could get past that. |
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There are better ways to challenge a law than to violate it. You can sue because the government has rejected your application or because their stated laws/regulations/policies have chilled your actions. Frankly, building MGs and claiming 2A hurts our cause more than helps it. I hope he enjoys prison, because thats where he's going. Kharn Read it first––-he has already been to prison for this. |
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