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Posted: 3/25/2009 7:42:01 PM EDT
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/


We're about done here folks.

By "done", I mean done with the government's ability to screw around with markets, game the outcome and hide the sausage, if you will, at least to any sort of positive effect.

Today we heard from The Fed that their threatened program to start buying the long end of the Treasury curve will begin tomorrow:

That was, without a doubt, prompted by this:



Notice the highlighted area.

The big drop (this is the 10 year Treasury rate) was when Ben made his announcement.  But over the last few days the rate has crept back upward, erasing about half of the drop.  While this is expected behavior (higher rates) when the stock market is on a tear (like yesterday) as people sell Treasuries to buy stocks, both Friday and today the market was down - but the Treasury market was also being sold.

That's not supposed to happen, but it did.  It denotes selling - on a day when people should have been moving into Treasuries, not out of them.  This compelled Ben to stomp on this trend lest he be seen as a toothless tiger, and that just won't do for Sir FedsALot.

Who's selling into Ben's "expectations" and producing this?  Good question.  I don't know, but Ben does - he has real-time Fedwire information that he doesn't release. I'm willing to bet it is NOT domestic holders, and is likely foreigners - including perhaps, central banks and their minions (Heeeeelllloooo China!)

This "acceleration" is a major problem, as it appears that Ben is losing control - rapidly.  If foreigners are selling into the market we are literally nothing more than market recognition away from Armageddon in the bond market.

If you recall it was not long ago that I wrote a couple of very "Apocalyptic" Tickers.

Do not for a second believe that the fact that the stock market rallied has defused the underlying problem.  It has not.

The underlying problem is not the stock market.  It is the credit (bond) market - that is, the underlying reality that there is too much debt out there in relationship to GDP, it cannot all be serviced, and as the economy contracts it feeds a vicious spiral where a default produces unemployment which drops both spendable income (and thus income available debt service) AND tax revenues, giving it to the credit market in all orifices.  This is "deflationary destruction" and it is inevitable when government pushes off the normal cyclical cleaning out that recessions do, as our government has.

President Obama thinks he can spend $3.6 trillion this coming fiscal year (an increase of some $600 billion dollars!) while tax revenues are collapsing.  Available reports are showing anywhere from 15-25% decreases in tax revenues, depending on exactly where and what you're looking at, and the available Federal data is deteriorating rapidly.

If the bond market sells into Ben's bid for the long end then rates will immediately start to climb once Ben finishes performing his "operations".

This will force him to do it again, and again, and again, until he owns ALL of the long Treasuries.

Don't think for a minute he will let that "printed" money out into the economy.  He can't, because if the market detects that it will ramp Treasury yields (and all other yields) even harder, making his "buying" of Treasuries a self-defeating act.  Instead he will force those "excess reserves" to go where the rest have gone - into The Fed vault.

The problem with this is that once he owns all the long-term Treasuries he can't sell them without collapsing the price, and now the solvency of our government rests with the ability to roll over short-end debt.  See, that which The Fed buys and Treasury sells is a funding circle-jerk, effectively removed from the float and thus the government's funding base.

Anyone care to take the bet on whether the selling pressure will move down the curve?

If it happens, we're done - and neither Bernanke or Obama has the ability to prevent it.

President Obama has apparently summoned the big bank Presidents to the White House this Friday, for what is certain to be a major arm-twisting.

   Attendees are expected to include Goldman Sachs Group Inc., J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and Citigroup Inc.

I'm sure.  What will almost certainly be discussed is some "persuasion" related to the new PPIP, or as I might dub it, "Pee Pee In the Pot", for that's about the likely outcome.  I suspect that our Dear President will "make clear" that Geithner and this plan cannot fail, because if Congressional reaction today is any guide, there is no second act.

After all, Turbo Timmy said there was no backup plan right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GK9Rg9M6-g&feature=player_embedded

That's a problem, you see, because it won't work, and when it fails Turbo is going to get fed to the lions.  It is time to start making tickmarks on your bedpost for every day Timmy keeps his job (at best) from here, in my view; if you come to Congress with a speech like that, then fail, you're done.

There are fleeting signs of improvement in some credit markets ahead of this.  Most notably the CMBX, which came in for the second day in a row in a significant way in the "AAA" tranche, as shown right here:



That improvement, of course, is based on the theory that the PPIP will buy up a good part of this and thus put a bid floor under these assets.  Proof is found in the fact that the lower tranches, which would not be eligible, have barely moved. That is, the spread contraction you see there is predicated on the plan working.

If it doesn't....

What's worse is how the banks are marking this stuff at present.  Have a look-see here; this started circulating around this afternoon (click for a popup of a larger copy):



If this is real then these banks and other institutions are living in an absolute dreamworld.  There is absolutely no chance that Construction loans, for example, can reasonably be carried at 100 cents or even at 97, as is being done virtually everywhere.  Hell, even Bank America is only discounting by a nickel.  Wells Fargo thinks they're going to get 87 cents held to maturity and Key 98?  IMHO they're nuts and from my point of view not only should the executives be in jail but the auditors should be too.

Here's a dose of reality for you folks.

I am confident, in the 90th percentile, that none of this is going to work.

All of these clowns still believe you can treat a drunk with a case of whiskey.

We still have trillions of credit in the system that has to be defaulted or cleaned, The Fed can't print out of that without destroying the bond and currency markets and they know it, and even if they did, its the same as defaulting the debt in that the valuation hit is identical.

That is, even if they were willing to destroy the only thing they have to sell (and they're not) printing to that degree would do the same thing as defaulting the debt in terms of the actual purchasing power impact for the banks and government. This is a default by another name, and does the same thing to the people holding the debt who get paid in trashed dollars as does defaulting on them.

Meanwhile the banks appear to still think this trash is all "money good."

No amount of "easy money" will fix the system when you get to this point.  The law of exponents makes that impossible.  You can hope to get organic growth in the economy going again, but that's not going to happen either, except in the very short term by "filling in the debt cracks" - a strategy that looks nice on paper but fails in the real world.

I see a possibility of of this scheme meeting with success, but it requires absolutely everything to go right, and the odds of that happening are low enough that I discount the scenario.  I must therefore prepare for something truly ugly, whether I want to or not.

What I believe we will see instead is similar to what we got after 1929; there was a short-lived rebound in the economy and markets, and it looked like we were going to come out of it with "just" a recession.

But the debt hadn't been cleaned from the system as they tried to prevent people from having to take the loss, and as a consequence able borrowers and able expansion of credit dried up, along with able providers.  The "second leg down" was the real bone-crusher, and it will be this time as well.

I believe we will not see "666" again on the SPX this month or next, and while there will be ups and downs in the market, the general direction will be positive for the next month or so.

But by the summer into the fall, when employment hasn't materially turned around and both spending and tax receipts have continued to fall, reality will set in.

Congress is increasingly becoming aware that all of these "fixes" thus far since the summer of 2007 have been nothing more than a scam and a fraud - a ripoff of the Taxpayer and Treasury in a vain and vile attempt to keep those who committed willful blindness or even fraud from having to bear the pain of their sins.  The American people are becoming increasingly aware as well.

Come summer and fall there will be no political capital available to play games, either in the American public or the Congress.  If Congress tries to appease the Wall Street pressure groups again, they will run the risk of having the Capitol put under siege by angry citizens demanding 535 immediate resignations - or worse.

I further believe the American Public is getting damn close to the breaking point.  The tone among people I interact with daily and among what I see online and off is shifting from hope and faith to anger with each passing day, and each revelation of another 10 billion here or there that get funneled through some conduit to an offshore bank just raises the pressure another notch.  The people now want blood, and I believe the minimum they will accept are thousands of indictments, prosecutions and prison sentences along with forfeiture of these men and women's fortunes.  Madoff didn't satisfy, it further enraged.

The government is running a very real risk, as I have noted in the past, of being declared by the people as "the felon" instead of "the cop", and if that happens I don't want to be anywhere near the angry mob that makes that decision.

So for now, enjoy the general upward to sideways trend in the market, but prepare.  While the spring may bring hope and summer one of discontent, I believe there is a very high probability that come fall, the peak of Hurricane Season, a very ill wind will be blowing both in New York and Washington DC.
Facebook The End Game Approaches
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 7:49:07 PM EDT
[#1]
So the big question is,  IF we're able to once again place our elected assholes on a short leash and for once make them do the right thing and obey the will of the RESPONSIBLE people,  (Yeah,  I know, it kind of sounds like a fantasy, doesn't it?) how long will it take for our government to dig itself out of the economic and financial holes that it is currently

madly digging?



Will our grandkids be free of this burden?  Will our kids have a chance of being free of it before they're all in old age homes?
CJ


Link Posted: 3/25/2009 7:50:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Default the debt.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 7:52:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Tick, tock. We are fucked.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 7:52:43 PM EDT
[#4]
"Sir FedsALot."





Other than that,
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 7:56:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Ok I read the whole thing but will admit that it went over my head.    
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 7:58:47 PM EDT
[#6]
BTT
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:00:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Default the debt.


Brilliant, it's not like that would destroy the value of the dollar, force the world to reprice commodities in a new currency and destroy our economy. Seriously, we should totally do that!
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:02:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Ok I read the whole thing but will admit that it went over my head.    


Buy goods, dump dollars.

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:03:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Very interesting...  I knew that they were throwing money at a problem hoping it would fix itself, but this guy seems to know what he's talking about.

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:07:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
So the big question is,  IF we're able to once again place our elected assholes on a short leash and for once make them do the right thing and obey the will of the RESPONSIBLE people,  (Yeah,  I know, it kind of sounds like a fantasy, doesn't it?) how long will it take for our government to dig itself out of the economic and financial holes that it is currently
madly digging?

Will our grandkids be free of this burden?  Will our kids have a chance of being free of it before they're all in old age homes?




CJ


Grand kids?

try great, great grand kids, if from here on out we (America) does everything right from now on.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:15:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Ok I read the whole thing but will admit that it went over my head.    
We're fooked. Their games = epic fail. More and more americans are putting on the glasses. ( see THEY LIVE ) As a result they're really, really pissed. An armed populace this pissed is a dangerous thing if you're a politician.Things could really get ugly. BE PREPARED....

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:22:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Good read.

Not looking forward to the fall.

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:26:56 PM EDT
[#13]

One world goverment and one world currency. A New World Order, it's the only way.


I kid...but if it happens I am a visionary.


Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:33:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Exactly how long will it take for people to stand up and start buring tires in front of the assholes that got us here and say enough is enough.




Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:42:49 PM EDT
[#15]
At this point, it may be productive to gather your wits, sit back, listen to a tune or two, and contemplate where things may go.

We're not really in this game, it's being played by people with a heck of a lot more impact & import than us lowly peons.

Let them do what they will. Figure out how to adapt to whatever is coming down the pike.

Tunes are good fo clearing the head.

Here's one that works for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WssIhThtZoo
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:48:37 PM EDT
[#16]
i for one am sick of the end is near threads,let er ride!
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:50:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
At this point, it may be productive to gather your wits, sit back, listen to a tune or two, and contemplate where things may go.

We're not really in this game, it's being played by people with a heck of a lot more impact & import than us lowly peons.

Let them do what they will. Figure out how to adapt to whatever is coming down the pike.

Tunes are good fo clearing the head.

Here's one that works for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WssIhThtZoo


Thanks alot Merrell!

"You may be here today but..... You're gone tomorrow."



Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:53:32 PM EDT
[#18]
So what should someone who has tax qualified investments in bond markets do?  Shift them to stocks short term?  And then get out and take the hit in penalties and income taxes?
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:55:41 PM EDT
[#19]
So, holders of EE Bonds and I Bonds should................?
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:59:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok I read the whole thing but will admit that it went over my head.    


Buy goods, gold, silver, ammo –– dump dollars.



Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:02:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
So the big question is,  IF we're able to once again place our elected assholes on a short leash and for once make them do the right thing and obey the will of the RESPONSIBLE people,  (Yeah,  I know, it kind of sounds like a fantasy, doesn't it?) how long will it take for our government to dig itself out of the economic and financial holes that it is currently
madly digging?

Will our grandkids be free of this burden?  Will our kids have a chance of being free of it before they're all in old age homes?




CJ


Yep sounds like a fantasy.  obamessiah has way too much time to screw us into the ground.  We will have to wait and see what transpires, and hope for change

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:06:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/



snip

This "acceleration" is a major problem, as it appears that Ben is losing control - rapidly.  If foreigners are selling into the market we are literally nothing more than market recognition away from Armageddon in the bond market.

snip

If the bond market sells into Ben's bid for the long end then rates will immediately start to climb once Ben finishes performing his "operations".

This will force him to do it again, and again, and again, until he owns ALL of the long Treasuries.

Don't think for a minute he will let that "printed" money out into the economy.  He can't, because if the market detects that it will ramp Treasury yields (and all other yields) even harder, making his "buying" of Treasuries a self-defeating act.  Instead he will force those "excess reserves" to go where the rest have gone - into The Fed vault.

The problem with this is that once he owns all the long-term Treasuries he can't sell them without collapsing the price, and now the solvency of our government rests with the ability to roll over short-end debt.  See, that which The Fed buys and Treasury sells is a funding circle-jerk, effectively removed from the float and thus the government's funding base.

snip

We still have trillions of credit in the system that has to be defaulted or cleaned, The Fed can't print out of that without destroying the bond and currency markets and they know it, and even if they did, its the same as defaulting the debt in that the valuation hit is identical.

That is, even if they were willing to destroy the only thing they have to sell (and they're not) printing to that degree would do the same thing as defaulting the debt in terms of the actual purchasing power impact for the banks and government. This is a default by another name, and does the same thing to the people holding the debt who get paid in trashed dollars as does defaulting on them.

snip



Just to highlight for the short attention span gallery.

Having spent almost 10 years working the financial markets, imho, this will make the 1930's look like the early 90's in comparison.

The points I snipped scare the hell out of me and we are all in deep shit. This isn't tinfoil, the jig is up.

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:12:47 PM EDT
[#23]
So basically, you're saying we should buy more ammo?













(And food, spare parts . .yada yada)
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:13:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/



snip

This "acceleration" is a major problem, as it appears that Ben is losing control - rapidly.  If foreigners are selling into the market we are literally nothing more than market recognition away from Armageddon in the bond market.

snip

If the bond market sells into Ben's bid for the long end then rates will immediately start to climb once Ben finishes performing his "operations".

This will force him to do it again, and again, and again, until he owns ALL of the long Treasuries.

Don't think for a minute he will let that "printed" money out into the economy.  He can't, because if the market detects that it will ramp Treasury yields (and all other yields) even harder, making his "buying" of Treasuries a self-defeating act.  Instead he will force those "excess reserves" to go where the rest have gone - into The Fed vault.

The problem with this is that once he owns all the long-term Treasuries he can't sell them without collapsing the price, and now the solvency of our government rests with the ability to roll over short-end debt.  See, that which The Fed buys and Treasury sells is a funding circle-jerk, effectively removed from the float and thus the government's funding base.

snip

We still have trillions of credit in the system that has to be defaulted or cleaned, The Fed can't print out of that without destroying the bond and currency markets and they know it, and even if they did, its the same as defaulting the debt in that the valuation hit is identical.

That is, even if they were willing to destroy the only thing they have to sell (and they're not) printing to that degree would do the same thing as defaulting the debt in terms of the actual purchasing power impact for the banks and government. This is a default by another name, and does the same thing to the people holding the debt who get paid in trashed dollars as does defaulting on them.

snip



Just to highlight for the short attention span gallery.

Having spent almost 10 years working the financial markets, imho, this will make the 1930's look like the early 90's in comparison.

The points I snipped scare the hell out of me and we are all in deep shit. This isn't tinfoil, the jig is up.




OK, give the immediate actions appropriate for a couple of common scenarios:

1) No debt, Not much cash on hand but can leverage (buy crap on credit)

2) No debt, cash on hand - what to buy - what to liquidate?

3) Debt, long-term (real estate) but otherwise OK - what to do?

4) Debt, short-term (credit cards) - banks go TU - who owns the debt?

5) Long & Short term debt - swamped - go ch 11 or ???



Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:18:01 PM EDT
[#25]
hmmm i wonder if revolution is in the cards..
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:18:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/


We're about done here folks.

By "done", I mean done with the government's ability to screw around with markets, game the outcome and hide the sausage, if you will, at least to any sort of positive effect.

Today we heard from The Fed that their threatened program to start buying the long end of the Treasury curve will begin tomorrow:

That was, without a doubt, prompted by this:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w161/PantherArms/10y-5m.png

Notice the highlighted area.

The big drop (this is the 10 year Treasury rate) was when Ben made his announcement.  But over the last few days the rate has crept back upward, erasing about half of the drop.  While this is expected behavior (higher rates) when the stock market is on a tear (like yesterday) as people sell Treasuries to buy stocks, both Friday and today the market was down - but the Treasury market was also being sold.

That's not supposed to happen, but it did.  It denotes selling - on a day when people should have been moving into Treasuries, not out of them.  This compelled Ben to stomp on this trend lest he be seen as a toothless tiger, and that just won't do for Sir FedsALot.

Who's selling into Ben's "expectations" and producing this?  Good question.  I don't know, but Ben does - he has real-time Fedwire information that he doesn't release. I'm willing to bet it is NOT domestic holders, and is likely foreigners - including perhaps, central banks and their minions (Heeeeelllloooo China!)

This "acceleration" is a major problem, as it appears that Ben is losing control - rapidly.  If foreigners are selling into the market we are literally nothing more than market recognition away from Armageddon in the bond market.

If you recall it was not long ago that I wrote a couple of very "Apocalyptic" Tickers.

Do not for a second believe that the fact that the stock market rallied has defused the underlying problem.  It has not.

The underlying problem is not the stock market.  It is the credit (bond) market - that is, the underlying reality that there is too much debt out there in relationship to GDP, it cannot all be serviced, and as the economy contracts it feeds a vicious spiral where a default produces unemployment which drops both spendable income (and thus income available debt service) AND tax revenues, giving it to the credit market in all orifices.  This is "deflationary destruction" and it is inevitable when government pushes off the normal cyclical cleaning out that recessions do, as our government has.

President Obama thinks he can spend $3.6 trillion this coming fiscal year (an increase of some $600 billion dollars!) while tax revenues are collapsing.  Available reports are showing anywhere from 15-25% decreases in tax revenues, depending on exactly where and what you're looking at, and the available Federal data is deteriorating rapidly.

If the bond market sells into Ben's bid for the long end then rates will immediately start to climb once Ben finishes performing his "operations".

This will force him to do it again, and again, and again, until he owns ALL of the long Treasuries.

Don't think for a minute he will let that "printed" money out into the economy.  He can't, because if the market detects that it will ramp Treasury yields (and all other yields) even harder, making his "buying" of Treasuries a self-defeating act.  Instead he will force those "excess reserves" to go where the rest have gone - into The Fed vault.

The problem with this is that once he owns all the long-term Treasuries he can't sell them without collapsing the price, and now the solvency of our government rests with the ability to roll over short-end debt.  See, that which The Fed buys and Treasury sells is a funding circle-jerk, effectively removed from the float and thus the government's funding base.

Anyone care to take the bet on whether the selling pressure will move down the curve?

If it happens, we're done - and neither Bernanke or Obama has the ability to prevent it.

President Obama has apparently summoned the big bank Presidents to the White House this Friday, for what is certain to be a major arm-twisting.

   Attendees are expected to include Goldman Sachs Group Inc., J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and Citigroup Inc.

I'm sure.  What will almost certainly be discussed is some "persuasion" related to the new PPIP, or as I might dub it, "Pee Pee In the Pot", for that's about the likely outcome.  I suspect that our Dear President will "make clear" that Geithner and this plan cannot fail, because if Congressional reaction today is any guide, there is no second act.

After all, Turbo Timmy said there was no backup plan right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GK9Rg9M6-g&feature=player_embedded

That's a problem, you see, because it won't work, and when it fails Turbo is going to get fed to the lions.  It is time to start making tickmarks on your bedpost for every day Timmy keeps his job (at best) from here, in my view; if you come to Congress with a speech like that, then fail, you're done.

There are fleeting signs of improvement in some credit markets ahead of this.  Most notably the CMBX, which came in for the second day in a row in a significant way in the "AAA" tranche, as shown right here:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w161/PantherArms/cmbx-09-03-24.png

That improvement, of course, is based on the theory that the PPIP will buy up a good part of this and thus put a bid floor under these assets.  Proof is found in the fact that the lower tranches, which would not be eligible, have barely moved. That is, the spread contraction you see there is predicated on the plan working.

If it doesn't....

What's worse is how the banks are marking this stuff at present.  Have a look-see here; this started circulating around this afternoon (click for a popup of a larger copy):

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w161/PantherArms/toxicassetsserendipityThumb.jpg

If this is real then these banks and other institutions are living in an absolute dreamworld.  There is absolutely no chance that Construction loans, for example, can reasonably be carried at 100 cents or even at 97, as is being done virtually everywhere.  Hell, even Bank America is only discounting by a nickel.  Wells Fargo thinks they're going to get 87 cents held to maturity and Key 98?  IMHO they're nuts and from my point of view not only should the executives be in jail but the auditors should be too.

Here's a dose of reality for you folks.

I am confident, in the 90th percentile, that none of this is going to work.

All of these clowns still believe you can treat a drunk with a case of whiskey.

We still have trillions of credit in the system that has to be defaulted or cleaned, The Fed can't print out of that without destroying the bond and currency markets and they know it, and even if they did, its the same as defaulting the debt in that the valuation hit is identical.

That is, even if they were willing to destroy the only thing they have to sell (and they're not) printing to that degree would do the same thing as defaulting the debt in terms of the actual purchasing power impact for the banks and government. This is a default by another name, and does the same thing to the people holding the debt who get paid in trashed dollars as does defaulting on them.

Meanwhile the banks appear to still think this trash is all "money good."

No amount of "easy money" will fix the system when you get to this point.  The law of exponents makes that impossible.  You can hope to get organic growth in the economy going again, but that's not going to happen either, except in the very short term by "filling in the debt cracks" - a strategy that looks nice on paper but fails in the real world.

I see a possibility of of this scheme meeting with success, but it requires absolutely everything to go right, and the odds of that happening are low enough that I discount the scenario.  I must therefore prepare for something truly ugly, whether I want to or not.

What I believe we will see instead is similar to what we got after 1929; there was a short-lived rebound in the economy and markets, and it looked like we were going to come out of it with "just" a recession.

But the debt hadn't been cleaned from the system as they tried to prevent people from having to take the loss, and as a consequence able borrowers and able expansion of credit dried up, along with able providers.  The "second leg down" was the real bone-crusher, and it will be this time as well.

I believe we will not see "666" again on the SPX this month or next, and while there will be ups and downs in the market, the general direction will be positive for the next month or so.

But by the summer into the fall, when employment hasn't materially turned around and both spending and tax receipts have continued to fall, reality will set in.

Congress is increasingly becoming aware that all of these "fixes" thus far since the summer of 2007 have been nothing more than a scam and a fraud - a ripoff of the Taxpayer and Treasury in a vain and vile attempt to keep those who committed willful blindness or even fraud from having to bear the pain of their sins.  The American people are becoming increasingly aware as well.

Come summer and fall there will be no political capital available to play games, either in the American public or the Congress.  If Congress tries to appease the Wall Street pressure groups again, they will run the risk of having the Capitol put under siege by angry citizens demanding 535 immediate resignations - or worse.

I further believe the American Public is getting damn close to the breaking point.  The tone among people I interact with daily and among what I see online and off is shifting from hope and faith to anger with each passing day, and each revelation of another 10 billion here or there that get funneled through some conduit to an offshore bank just raises the pressure another notch.  The people now want blood, and I believe the minimum they will accept are thousands of indictments, prosecutions and prison sentences along with forfeiture of these men and women's fortunes.  Madoff didn't satisfy, it further enraged.

The government is running a very real risk, as I have noted in the past, of being declared by the people as "the felon" instead of "the cop", and if that happens I don't want to be anywhere near the angry mob that makes that decision.

So for now, enjoy the general upward to sideways trend in the market, but prepare.  While the spring may bring hope and summer one of discontent, I believe there is a very high probability that come fall, the peak of Hurricane Season, a very ill wind will be blowing both in New York and Washington DC.
Facebook The End Game Approaches


BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE . .. It's happening even sooner/faster than expected.  The following was later written by the author of the OP's post.

Posted by Karl Denninger  in Monetary   at 15:12
(Page 1 of 279, totaling 836 entries) » next page
Bond Market To Bernanke and Obama: F&$k You

Good luck Ben:

   NEW YORK (AP) –– Stocks lost ground after a weak auction of U.S. government debt stirred worries about how easily Washington will be able to raise money to fund its economic rescue program.

   Investors gave an unexpectedly cool response to a $24 billion auction of 5-year Treasury notes Wednesday, which also sent prices for Treasurys lower.

You wouldn't think that would happen on the day that Ben came into the market to buy Treasuries, but it did.  Ben had roughly three times the amount he took submitted to him: SOLD TO YOU BEN, and oh by the way, we're not interested in buying any more of this trash either!

Worse, indirect bidding (foreign interest) essentially collapsed, down by some 50% from last month.

As if that's not bad enough the BOE (England) actually had a failed Gilt auction, with insufficient bids for the amount pushed out.

That's coming to America and soon Ben.

I and a few other astute people who actually believe the market is bigger than any loudmouth with a title (like Bernanke) tried to warn both him and our President that neither of them are capable of forcing people to buy that which they do not wish to buy or fund.

Well Ben?

When I wrote my Ticker from this morning, which I actually penned last night, I had no clue that the first piece of this dislocation was going to happen today.

It did.

Ben came into the market and bought Treasuries today, and in response yields moved.... up?

Oh, and the stock market sold off hard too, down some three hundred DOW points from where it was before these bond "operations."

A blunt, clear warning was issued by the market today Mr. President and Mr. Fed:

   Cut that crap about "borrow and spend", along with playing "circle jerk" and "I'm gonna threaten to print money!" out right here and now, or run the risk of the Treasury market imploding in your face, taking what is left of the American economy and our capital markets with it.

Are you listening to investors both here and abroad Mr. Obama and Mr. Bernanke?

You can't force China, Japan and Saudi Arabia to buy our debt.  You can only ask, and the results of the bond auction today makes clear that their answer so far can best be described as "Bite Me!"


Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:19:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
i for one am sick of the end is near threads,let er ride!



This seems rather fitting; LINK



Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:27:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
i for one am sick of the end is near threads,let er ride!



This seems rather fitting; LINK





holy crap! you guys need to suck it up and get over this shit!
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:35:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Just to highlight for the short attention span gallery.

Having spent almost 10 years working the financial markets, imho, this will make the 1930's look like the early 90's in comparison.

The points I snipped scare the hell out of me and we are all in deep shit. This isn't tinfoil, the jig is up.




OK, give the immediate actions appropriate for a couple of common scenarios:

1) No debt, Not much cash on hand but can leverage (buy crap on credit)

2) No debt, cash on hand - what to buy - what to liquidate?

3) Debt, long-term (real estate) but otherwise OK - what to do?

4) Debt, short-term (credit cards) - banks go TU - who owns the debt?

5) Long & Short term debt - swamped - go ch 11 or ???






OK, I've been out of the loop for almost 8 yrs now so I don't follow this everday like I used too but to say this is unprecedented would be an understatment.

As far as individual debt goes, someone(institution) will always own it until you default/bankruptcy.

The problem, in summary, is we are out of options and the only ones we have left leave the $ worth much less (or worthless). The Fed will not default on their debt(never gonna happen), then what, pay the debt with "printed" $'s (i.e worthless because of the grand scale)

I honestly don't know what to do myself, i've never seen or studied anything like it. Normally the markets favor equities or debt but usually not both at the same time nor are they in disfavor together, but there will be no place to go if this all comes to pass. The bond markets and currency will be destroyed and equities will get clobered without funding for operations and expansion. I would stick with equities of well established companies that provide the bare essentials for living.

I honestly don't know, that's why this freaks me out.

eta: from the other article posted above.......

Ben had roughly three times the amount he took submitted to him: SOLD TO YOU BEN, and oh by the way, we're not interested in buying any more of this trash either!

Indicating that the phrase "backed by the full faith and credit of the USA" is starting to come into doubt, which translates to deep shit for this country






Link Posted: 3/25/2009 9:48:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Excellent, excellent, absolutely excellent post!

You sir, are one to be listened to.

Quite a bit more eloquent than my "Obama is a Nazi" rants.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:09:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
i for one am sick of the end is near threads,let er ride!



This seems rather fitting; LINK





holy crap! you guys need to suck it up and get over this shit!


There isn't much you or I can do as far as push-back towards the avalanche of shit heading this way, but I'm not about to bury my head in the sand like 90% of the country has done.

"get over this shit!"     This shit-party hasn't even gotten started yet.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:14:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Just to highlight for the short attention span gallery.

Having spent almost 10 years working the financial markets, imho, this will make the 1930's look like the early 90's in comparison.

The points I snipped scare the hell out of me and we are all in deep shit. This isn't tinfoil, the jig is up.




OK, give the immediate actions appropriate for a couple of common scenarios:

1) No debt, Not much cash on hand but can leverage (buy crap on credit)

2) No debt, cash on hand - what to buy - what to liquidate?

3) Debt, long-term (real estate) but otherwise OK - what to do?

4) Debt, short-term (credit cards) - banks go TU - who owns the debt?

5) Long & Short term debt - swamped - go ch 11 or ???






OK, I've been out of the loop for almost 8 yrs now so I don't follow this everday like I used too but to say this is unprecedented would be an understatment.

As far as individual debt goes, someone(institution) will always own it until you default/bankruptcy.

The problem, in summary, is we are out of options and the only ones we have left leave the $ worth much less (or worthless). The Fed will not default on their debt(never gonna happen), then what, pay the debt with "printed" $'s (i.e worthless because of the grand scale)

I honestly don't know what to do myself, i've never seen or studied anything like it. Normally the markets favor equities or debt but usually not both at the same time nor are they in disfavor together, but there will be no place to go if this all comes to pass. The bond markets and currency will be destroyed and equities will get clobered without funding for operations and expansion. I would stick with equities of well established companies that provide the bare essentials for living.

I honestly don't know, that's why this freaks me out.

eta: from the other article posted above.......

Ben had roughly three times the amount he took submitted to him: SOLD TO YOU BEN, and oh by the way, we're not interested in buying any more of this trash either!

Indicating that the phrase "backed by the full faith and credit of the USA" is starting to come into doubt, which translates to deep shit for this country








Cash out the 401K?

No offense, but for those of us whose sum-total involvement with the markets is buying mutual funds and such, a couple of pointers would help.

Any good basic references on all this stuff? (acknowledging that this is unprecedented)
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:17:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
i for one am sick of the end is near threads,let er ride!



This seems rather fitting; LINK





holy crap! you guys need to suck it up and get over this shit!


There isn't much you or I can do as far as push-back towards the avalanche of shit heading this way, but I'm not about to bury my head in the sand like 90% of the country has done.

"get over this shit!"     This shit-party hasn't even gotten started yet.


if you cant stop it or control it, then worrying about it is a waste of time!
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:25:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Just to highlight for the short attention span gallery.

Having spent almost 10 years working the financial markets, imho, this will make the 1930's look like the early 90's in comparison.

The points I snipped scare the hell out of me and we are all in deep shit. This isn't tinfoil, the jig is up.




OK, give the immediate actions appropriate for a couple of common scenarios:

1) No debt, Not much cash on hand but can leverage (buy crap on credit)

2) No debt, cash on hand - what to buy - what to liquidate?

3) Debt, long-term (real estate) but otherwise OK - what to do?

4) Debt, short-term (credit cards) - banks go TU - who owns the debt?

5) Long & Short term debt - swamped - go ch 11 or ???






OK, I've been out of the loop for almost 8 yrs now so I don't follow this everyday like I used too but to say this is unprecedented would be an understatement.

As far as individual debt goes, someone(institution) will always own it until you default/bankruptcy.

The problem, in summary, is we are out of options and the only ones we have left leave the $ worth much less (or worthless). The Fed will not default on their debt(never gonna happen), then what, pay the debt with "printed" $'s (i.e worthless because of the grand scale)

I honestly don't know what to do myself, I've never seen or studied anything like it. Normally the markets favor equities or debt but usually not both at the same time nor are they in disfavor together, but there will be no place to go if this all comes to pass. The bond markets and currency will be destroyed and equities will get clobbered without funding for operations and expansion. I would stick with equities of well established companies that provide the bare essentials for living.

I honestly don't know, that's why this freaks me out.

eta: from the other article posted above.......

Ben had roughly three times the amount he took submitted to him: SOLD TO YOU BEN, and oh by the way, we're not interested in buying any more of this trash either!

Indicating that the phrase "backed by the full faith and credit of the USA" is starting to come into doubt, which translates to deep shit for this country








Cash out the 401K?

No offense, but for those of us whose sum-total involvement with the markets is buying mutual funds and such, a couple of pointers would help.

Any good basic references on all this stuff? (acknowledging that this is unprecedented)



I have no specific investment advice, I've been far to removed for too long.

I've lost my ass like everyone else. I would want to know at the very least the top 10 holdings of a mutual fund and that those companies have long, proven track records. Also, I would prefer that none of those companies have large portions of there business tied to luxury items. I hate to say it  but take a page from recent Soros's playbook and move to and stick with quality.

We need to get the hedge fund guy in here, I'd like to know his take on this. I think his username was Austrian, maybe?
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:27:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Excellent post.
Some of these people can't come to grips with their inability to fix it.  The more they medle, the worse it gets.
Others involved deserve far less credit than that.  They have every intention of destroying capitalism.

Hopefully you are familiar with Cloward-Piven (if not, google it).
There is very strong evidence that it has moved well beyond an academic theory now.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

You know most of the isolated info in this article, but how it links together will startle you.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:31:25 PM EDT
[#36]







Cash out the 401K?

No offense, but for those of us whose sum-total involvement with the markets is buying mutual funds and such, a couple of pointers would help.

Any good basic references on all this stuff? (acknowledging that this is unprecedented)


Your sig line asks who is John Galt? It is Alan Greenspan, an Ayn Rand follower, who liked the gold standard, saw it taken away and decided to bring the whole thing down. You are seeing the whole thing coming down now.

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:33:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Just to highlight for the short attention span gallery.

Having spent almost 10 years working the financial markets, imho, this will make the 1930's look like the early 90's in comparison.

The points I snipped scare the hell out of me and we are all in deep shit. This isn't tinfoil, the jig is up.




OK, give the immediate actions appropriate for a couple of common scenarios:

1) No debt, Not much cash on hand but can leverage (buy crap on credit)

2) No debt, cash on hand - what to buy - what to liquidate?

3) Debt, long-term (real estate) but otherwise OK - what to do?

4) Debt, short-term (credit cards) - banks go TU - who owns the debt?

5) Long & Short term debt - swamped - go ch 11 or ???






OK, I've been out of the loop for almost 8 yrs now so I don't follow this everday like I used too but to say this is unprecedented would be an understatment.

As far as individual debt goes, someone(institution) will always own it until you default/bankruptcy.

The problem, in summary, is we are out of options and the only ones we have left leave the $ worth much less (or worthless). The Fed will not default on their debt(never gonna happen), then what, pay the debt with "printed" $'s (i.e worthless because of the grand scale)

I honestly don't know what to do myself, i've never seen or studied anything like it. Normally the markets favor equities or debt but usually not both at the same time nor are they in disfavor together, but there will be no place to go if this all comes to pass. The bond markets and currency will be destroyed and equities will get clobered without funding for operations and expansion. I would stick with equities of well established companies that provide the bare essentials for living.

I honestly don't know, that's why this freaks me out.

eta: from the other article posted above.......

Ben had roughly three times the amount he took submitted to him: SOLD TO YOU BEN, and oh by the way, we're not interested in buying any more of this trash either!

Indicating that the phrase "backed by the full faith and credit of the USA" is starting to come into doubt, which translates to deep shit for this country






I think Denninger under estimates our government's ability to completely fuck other countries with CIA shady business when it really needs to.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:36:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:

I think Denninger under estimates our government's ability to completely fuck other countries with CIA shady business when it really needs to.


Yeah, I was going to add that this is a macro scenario and that there are "other" micro variables that could come into play
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:37:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:







Cash out the 401K?

No offense, but for those of us whose sum-total involvement with the markets is buying mutual funds and such, a couple of pointers would help.

Any good basic references on all this stuff? (acknowledging that this is unprecedented)


Your sig line asks who is John Galt? It is Alan Greenspan, an Ayn Rand follower, who liked the gold standard, saw it taken away and decided to bring the whole thing down. You are seeing the whole thing coming down now.



Quite. But I am not a man of economics & investments. Heaven knows I poke my nose in everythin else, but I am (somewhat) intelligent enough to stay out of field outside my realm. Finance is one.

So what is the most prudent option at this point for the general run-of-the-mil schmuck who has his future tied up in Fidelity et al...

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:39:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
hmmm i wonder if revolution is in the cards..


Link Posted: 3/25/2009 10:59:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Excellent post.
Some of these people can't come to grips with their inability to fix it.  The more they medle, the worse it gets.
Others involved deserve far less credit than that.  They have every intention of destroying capitalism.

Hopefully you are familiar with Cloward-Piven (if not, google it).
There is very strong evidence that it has moved well beyond an academic theory now.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

You know most of the isolated info in this article, but how it links together will startle you.


This is intense. Why would our intelligence services permit this to happen from within?

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 11:09:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Excellent post.
Some of these people can't come to grips with their inability to fix it.  The more they medle, the worse it gets.
Others involved deserve far less credit than that.  They have every intention of destroying capitalism.

Hopefully you are familiar with Cloward-Piven (if not, google it).
There is very strong evidence that it has moved well beyond an academic theory now.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

You know most of the isolated info in this article, but how it links together will startle you.


This is intense. Why would our intelligence services permit this to happen from within?



They gotta suck the .gov cock to get a paycheck.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 11:33:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Excellent post.
Some of these people can't come to grips with their inability to fix it.  The more they medle, the worse it gets.
Others involved deserve far less credit than that.  They have every intention of destroying capitalism.

Hopefully you are familiar with Cloward-Piven (if not, google it).
There is very strong evidence that it has moved well beyond an academic theory now.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

You know most of the isolated info in this article, but how it links together will startle you.


Thanks for the link....

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:19:05 AM EDT
[#44]
I just did a quickie double check of tnx and just don't see any indication of end game as described....

linkie
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:19:45 AM EDT
[#45]
You are right.  Only some of the outer trappings of the financial system remain.  The financial structure of this country (and the global financial structure) is gone.  Within the financial system as we have all known it, there is no place to hide.  It was a house of cards all along.  The stock market, the bond market, currency, derivatives, were/are all smoke and mirrors.   The only reason they functioned at all was the investment in credibility that was made by the public.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:30:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Yup.  
Good post.

Way too much debt.  There is NO way to EVER pay it off for the simple reason that productivity would have to skyrocket for us to ever be able to earn our way out.  And productivity cannot skyrocket, Hell we prolly cannot even get back to a "growth economy" no matter how modest the goal for the reasons that we're out of credit and cheap energy;  Credit + Cheap Energy = the Growth Economy.

We'll prolly stumble our way forward to a "pseudo-recovery" and then there will be another crash.  At that point, it's OVER.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:36:56 AM EDT
[#47]
heres the short version as i see - fed buys/monetizes the debt, dollar devalues,good and services cost more and your dollar isnt worth shit! on a bright note dont be to overly concerned as the government will take your dollars at a reduced rate and exchange for the 4th reichs currency which will be coming shortly, can you say G20 summit?

i have seen alot of people on this thread asking what to do with money that they have available, well here you go.  take a look at history, look at any times during wars,conflicts, uprisings, etc. - take your money and invest in gold, silver, hard assets, bare land, liquor, tools, personal care items, guns, ammo,copenhagen( can any of you iraqi vets chime in here, i know i was sending copenhagen to baghdad by the case and it was worth more than gold !)  

me thinks another good idea would be to spend your money to get offf the grid and install alternative energy to power your home, not only will you get a tax credit for doing so but there are grants available and in the long run you will come out ahead and reduce your monthly energy bills .

Hell anymore, just buy all the ammo you can find, sit on it until the ammo id crap goes into effect and you will be doing far better than the sheeple down the street.

my 2 cents ...



Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:41:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Ok, I admit it, im scared.  

Wish someone would give some clear advice as to what we can do to survive this.  Right now I am paying off debt like crazy ( is this a good idea?), stocking up on everything I can think off.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:59:05 AM EDT
[#49]




Quoted:

Ok, I admit it, im scared.



Wish someone would give some clear advice as to what we can do to survive this. Right now I am paying off debt like crazy ( is this a good idea?), stocking up on everything I can think off.




You know, I wonder about that myself. Everyone will say to pay off all the debt. I did and only have a small amount left (less than $2K). But was that the thing to do? I'm contemplating paying off that and using any of my savings to do so. Sounds to me like the best thing to do is to use my cash to buy things we'll need and pay the minimum on the debt for now. I'm not advising. I'm sure I have no idea WTH I'm talking about. But I wonder if I couldn't bear a bit of debt and get more of my needs covered.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:59:13 AM EDT
[#50]
For those looking for advice...

Look for a financial professional who was in the business on Black Monday.

Look at banks who didn't take TARP money. You'll likely find a few there who just recently moved from another firm.

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