H&K MR556 and MR762: Civilian HK416 and HK417 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - H&K MR556 and MR762: Civilian HK416 and HK417 (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 1/14/2009 10:47:17 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Plus, I LOVE how they call the gas system they 'borrowed' from the AR-18, "Proprietary."

It is not just a G36 style piston that pushes on the carrier. The carrier, at least for the 416, has a mechanical action that pushes forward on the bolt during unlocking like the direct gas system does.

Posted: 1/14/2009 10:51:01 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like.

ETA: IBFH&K

Do you like the fact that the 416 upper can't be used with other AR-15/M-16 typer lowers?

H&K wanted me to deliver a message: F*** YOU!

At least they decided to sell firearms that are wanted by the market.
They are under no obligation to ensure their uppers can be used on other mfg's lowers, but they should just say so instead of citing "German export regulations", after all, they are being built here, not in Germany.

Wonder what the price will be?

Posted: 1/14/2009 10:55:29 AM EDT

[#3]

I'll bet HK compatible lowers made by other manuf. are out before the rifles.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:00:22 AM EDT

[#4]

I have been trying to figure out how to buy an AR, but spend as much as i would on a decent used car.

thanks HK!!!

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:00:39 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will own a MR762. It's sad, but the choices for a high-quality mass produced .308 EBR are extremely limited. Other than the MR762 and the FN SCAR .308, what else is there?

AR10 for starters. KAC SR25, DSA SA58's?

Nearly all SR-25 rifles being produced are going toward govt contracts. Also KAC doesn't have the track record for producing mil-spec weapons that makes me feel comfortable enough to purchase one of their rifles.

The DSA rifle is not what I would classify as a high-quality weapon. DSA makes an OK weapon, but they are no where near the quality level of an HK or an FN.

A) DSA absolutely has high quality weapons. Im guessing you've never owned or shot one of their top end SA58's. DSA High End Tack Driver..................

B) POF, DSA, Armalite, Springfield, DPMS and KAC SR25's can be found. Point being, the HK's are by no means the only game in town as far as .308's go. Knock yourself out if you want one...up to you...but your premise is wrong.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:01:01 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will own a MR762. It's sad, but the choices for a high-quality mass produced .308 EBR are extremely limited. Other than the MR762 and the FN SCAR .308, what else is there?

AR10 for starters. KAC SR25, DSA SA58's?

Nearly all SR-25 rifles being produced are going toward govt contracts. Also KAC doesn't have the track record for producing mil-spec weapons that makes me feel comfortable enough to purchase one of their rifles.

The DSA rifle is not what I would classify as a high-quality weapon. DSA makes an OK weapon, but they are no where near the quality level of an HK or an FN.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you here. While I own none of them, I have friends who own all three, and have shot all three considerably. All of them are excellent rifles. I personally prefer the DSA to the G3 (albeit for ergonomic reasons), and it seems to me to be of equal quality to the FN's I have shot. It is also the only one of the three that I have not witnessed a jam occur in, although the ONE I did see in the G3 was most likely ammo related.

YMMV

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:02:07 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

They are expected to arrive in late 2009.

Yeah, Obama's security force will be carrying them when they show up outside your house to confiscate your guns.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:04:19 AM EDT

[#8]

Not interested.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:10:14 AM EDT

[#9]

What is it they changed so it can't be used on other lowers? The 416's that have been taken off dealer samples work on normal lowers....

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:11:46 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like.

ETA: IBFH&K

Do you like the fact that the 416 upper can't be used with other AR-15/M-16 typer lowers?

H&K wanted me to deliver a message: F*** YOU!

+1 i wonder wtf that is all about?

Quoted:
It says right there in the text that the no AR lower is a German government export requirement.

If they sell "assault weapons" to the public, they are ineligible for German government contracts. It is a German law issue, not a "because you suck and we hate you" issue.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:20:24 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like.

ETA: IBFH&K

Do you like the fact that the 416 upper can't be used with other AR-15/M-16 typer lowers?

H&K wanted me to deliver a message: F*** YOU!

+1 i wonder wtf that is all about?

Quoted:
It says right there in the text that the no AR lower is a German government export requirement.

If they sell "assault weapons" to the public, they are ineligible for German government contracts. It is a German law issue, not a "because you suck and we hate you" issue.

Not necessarily so.........(from another board)

So how comes that the Sabre Defence and Oberland Arms AR15 available here have standard lower receiver and "the law" only affects HK?

I had a closer look at the MR223 at a local dealer here last week. It doesn't take Diemaco and PMAGs (don't fit the mag well) and I'm not so sure about USGI mags (I didn't have one with me that day) as the magazine lips on the HK mag look different. The MR223 has a magazine safety (because you suck in gun handling) With that price tag I buy another Sabre Defence in a heartbeat instead.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:25:35 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will own a MR762. It's sad, but the choices for a high-quality mass produced .308 EBR are extremely limited. Other than the MR762 and the FN SCAR .308, what else is there?

AR10 for starters. KAC SR25, DSA SA58's?

Nearly all SR-25 rifles being produced are going toward govt contracts. Also KAC doesn't have the track record for producing mil-spec weapons that makes me feel comfortable enough to purchase one of their rifles.

The DSA rifle is not what I would classify as a high-quality weapon. DSA makes an OK weapon, but they are no where near the quality level of an HK or an FN.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you here. While I own none of them, I have friends who own all three, and have shot all three considerably. All of them are excellent rifles. I personally prefer the DSA to the G3 (albeit for ergonomic reasons), and it seems to me to be of equal quality to the FN's I have shot. It is also the only one of the three that I have not witnessed a jam occur in, although the ONE I did see in the G3 was most likely ammo related.

YMMV

Head over to to the FAL forum and do a search. You'll see numerous issues reported with new DSA FALs.

Here's the deal: FN has gotten literally thousands of military contracts to make weapons for 3/4 of the world's nations over the last 120 years. HK has been doing the same with dozens of countries for about 50 years. To be able to successfully and consistently produce weapons for the world's military organizations, you have to have a extremely high level of quality control and quality. That means if you take 100 random rifles and test them all, 99 will work like they are supposed to and will be fitted/assembled properly and within spec. With DSA, you'd be lucky to see that with 40-60% of their rifles. Then you have the issue with DSA of parts not being heat-treated/hardened properly, which will greatly shorten the serviceable life of the weapon.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:27:21 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

A piston gun with incompatable (unique) AR parts marked up at a HUGE premium over guns of equal ability. What am I missing?

http://www.crafm.com/

H&K: German engineering with British snoobery.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:35:18 AM EDT

[#14]

IDK, I might get one if I have enough money before teh ban comes. But it's lower on my list than the SCAR, an SPR clone, and some sound suppressors.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:43:53 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will own a MR762. It's sad, but the choices for a high-quality mass produced .308 EBR are extremely limited. Other than the MR762 and the FN SCAR .308, what else is there?

AR10 for starters. KAC SR25, DSA SA58's?

Nearly all SR-25 rifles being produced are going toward govt contracts. Also KAC doesn't have the track record for producing mil-spec weapons that makes me feel comfortable enough to purchase one of their rifles.

The DSA rifle is not what I would classify as a high-quality weapon. DSA makes an OK weapon, but they are no where near the quality level of an HK or an FN.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you here. While I own none of them, I have friends who own all three, and have shot all three considerably. All of them are excellent rifles. I personally prefer the DSA to the G3 (albeit for ergonomic reasons), and it seems to me to be of equal quality to the FN's I have shot. It is also the only one of the three that I have not witnessed a jam occur in, although the ONE I did see in the G3 was most likely ammo related.

YMMV

.............Head over to to the FAL forum and do a search. (Snip)

You're wrong. Its just that simple. DSA makes the highest quality FAL's ever made, FN included, and if you want battle proven designs, the Right Arm of the Free World would be near the top of that list.

Buy whatever you want, for whatever reason...but your if your searches on ARFCOM are the extent of your knowledge on this subject, I'd suggest your information is grossly inadiquate.

And while you're at it, be sure to fire off an email to Larry Vickers letting him know he's busy endorsing a piece of shit for a gun.

Posted: 1/14/2009 11:46:32 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

At least they decided to sell firearms that are wanted by the market.
They are under no obligation to ensure their uppers can be used on other mfg's lowers, but they should just say so instead of citing "German export regulations", after all, they are being built here, not in Germany.

Wonder what the price will be?

They are using some German manufactured parts, so I think that is probably what is roping in the German export rules.

Posted: 1/14/2009 12:03:08 PM EDT

[#17]

YAWN

the correct answer is who gives a shit. honestly, I'm tired of this runaround crap of the ACR
and SCAR. Chalk this one up there.
Yes, it may actually come out late this year, but who cares?

The upper will be great, i'm sure, but not compatible with standard AR lowers.
One could easily build a magnificent upper with a piston driven system for less
and use it on all lowers.

I am an HK fan, make no mistake. But this weapon does nothing for me.

Ask yourself: What makes HK aluminum better than VLTOR, COLT, or
NOVESKE Aluminum?

Posted: 1/14/2009 12:08:34 PM EDT

[#18]

From what I have read, the rear take down pin has been moved back about 6mm, give or take to prevent it from mating to domestic receivers

Quoted:
What is it they changed so it can't be used on other lowers? The 416's that have been taken off dealer samples work on normal lowers....

Posted: 1/14/2009 12:09:10 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
What is it they changed so it can't be used on other lowers? The 416's that have been taken off dealer samples work on normal lowers....

I was wondering this too. They must have manufactured something in for the civilian market as HK416/7's are specifically designed to work with existing AR type lowers, that is one of their selling points, so bulk customers have the option to just replace uppers if they want to, or have whole new rifles.

I have been lucky enough to have a (too) short play with both the HK416 and HK417, and they are very impressive bits of kit. I'm not interested in politics, petty prejudices and costs...as weapons these things are damn good..

Posted: 1/14/2009 12:24:06 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like.

ETA: IBFH&K

Do you like the fact that the 416 upper can't be used with other AR-15/M-16 typer lowers?

H&K wanted me to deliver a message: F*** YOU!

Do What? Are you serious?

Posted: 1/14/2009 12:30:01 PM EDT

[#21]

HK builds high quality weapons that both function under adverse conditions and are atheistically pleasing.

However, I am afraid that they are way too expensive and impractical considering that they are not a

massive jump in capability over current ARs. Yeah, they are probably more reliable and have better

fit/finish than my MP15a. However, for an asking price somewhere beyond $2500, it is just too expensive

for my needs and I am sure many owners will follow my lead. Only HK fans (which there are quite a few)

and well heeled collectors will buy this gun. I am sure it will be an awesome gun, but I rather get an AR-10

with a nice leupold for the price of the HK gun! It won't be as reliable but I am not going to war either!

I am concerned that these rifles seem more "ban resistant" than others. The 10rd mags and uppers that don't

fit on AR lowers indicates that HK seems to be concerned that an AWB might be passed! The FN rep on

gunwritr's show stated that their lobbyists have heard rumblings of anti-gun legislation. Do the gun companies

know something more substantial than we do?

Posted: 1/14/2009 12:33:14 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will own a MR762. It's sad, but the choices for a high-quality mass produced .308 EBR are extremely limited. Other than the MR762 and the FN SCAR .308, what else is there?

AR10 for starters. KAC SR25, DSA SA58's?

Nearly all SR-25 rifles being produced are going toward govt contracts. Also KAC doesn't have the track record for producing mil-spec weapons that makes me feel comfortable enough to purchase one of their rifles.

The DSA rifle is not what I would classify as a high-quality weapon. DSA makes an OK weapon, but they are no where near the quality level of an HK or an FN.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you here. While I own none of them, I have friends who own all three, and have shot all three considerably. All of them are excellent rifles. I personally prefer the DSA to the G3 (albeit for ergonomic reasons), and it seems to me to be of equal quality to the FN's I have shot. It is also the only one of the three that I have not witnessed a jam occur in, although the ONE I did see in the G3 was most likely ammo related.

YMMV

.............Head over to to the FAL forum and do a search. (Snip)

You're wrong. Its just that simple. DSA makes the highest quality FAL's ever made, FN included, and if you want battle proven designs, the Right Arm of the Free World would be near the top of that list.

Buy whatever you want, for whatever reason...but your if your searches on ARFCOM are the extent of your knowledge on this subject, I'd suggest your information is grossly inadiquate.

And while you're at it, be sure to fire off an email to Larry Vickers letting him know he's busy endorsing a piece of shit for a gun.

I own 3 FALs, all made in Belgium.

Here's a few posts from FAL File Forums on DSA issues:

__________________________________________________________________

January 15, 2006 02:29

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
ive put a few hundred rounds through my DSA SA58 tactical carbine now and it still consistently has problems chambering rounds from the magazine, especially the first round. What gives? I read all these stories about how reliable fals are and I can't get through one magazine without like 5 malfunctions.

February 08, 2008 01:05

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
hello everybody, fng here, i ordered a new para elite compact from dsa last
april ,got it eight mo's later, fired three shots and shazzamm! the guide rod
broke and spring did a 360 inside the reciever cover. called'em up and they
said they had a bad batch of rods. don't get me wrong,i think they are doing
every thing they can, but has any body out there expierenced this phenom?: they said it could take another mo for parts, i hate being out of action!

_______________________________________________________________________________

September 06, 2006 23:55

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
(This is being posted on both the FAL Files and M-14 Forums.)

LET ME START BY SAYING THAT THIS IS NOT AN M-14 VS. FN FAL THREAD!!!!!!!!

I FINALLY got a chance to put both my .308s on paper at 50 and 100yds yesterday (both rifles had only been fired at 25yds. for basic functionality).

I started off with my Springfield M1A Scout/Squad…
After some minor windage/elevation adjustments I was able to group (3 shot groups) 2MOA at 50 yds. and 4MOA at 100yds. using South African surplus ammo.
I am convinced that this rifle shoots much better than I can and I am VERY pleased to say the least. With some more skill on my part and good ammo this will become a great shooter. Kudos to Springfield and an A+++ recommendation to anyone thinking about purchasing this rifle!

Next I moved to my DSA Para/Congo (Para folding stock w/18in. barrel)…
My first observation was the trigger pull which I can only describe as HORRIBLE. I lost sight picture 2-3 times during her elongated trigger creep and was only grouping 4-6MOA at best at 50yds. This is certainly not what I would expect from a rifle that I paid 2000USD for!

My friend fared no better than I with her and the whole experience was only exacerbated by the fact that we had just finished with the M1A whose trigger had little creep and broke CLEANLY!

The next issue was that while my friend was firing her she had two misfires. One round had an indented primer and the next showed no mark from the firing pin. I placed both rounds in the next mag and they fired without a hitch (?). Random???
Because of the two misfires I ran about another 100rds. through the rifle and she functioned flawlessly. Go figure…

________________________________________________________________________

May 08, 2006 13:03

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
I got a DSA STG-58 Para at the begining of this year, 16" barrel. I have had just a ton of problems.

First off the thing would not go into battery about 50% of the time, I worked the hell out of it and lubed the hell out of it, and still didn't work right. I replaced the recoil spring with a Falcon Arms and that seemed to do the trick.

Then as I was shooting it I broke the guiderail out of the topcover. Took DSA about 3-4 weeks to get me a new topcover (and only a few days for Falcon Arms to send me a new spring WAY TO GO FA) .

I figured I battered the hell out of the topcover with my gas setting too high ( it was on 4) and that might be why it broke. Now the gas is on 7 (full open) and it seems that it is working though I still see some dented cases and sometimes brass is being tossed pretty far, but it seems to be working as it should.

Anyone have any idea why this would still function with the gas open all the way , any suggestions on how to dial it down some , I am still worried I may have too much gas and break another topcover.

_____________________________________________________________________________

April 26, 2006 18:54

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
I hate to say this but my DSA FAL is not only the most expensive firearm that I own but is also the least reliable.

I took it out last weekend to the range with some South African that I bought.
It failed to extract on every round even when adjusting the gas to 1!

I keep this rifle clean and don't shoot it very often. Could it be that the gas vent is clogged somehow or maybe the return spring is too stiff?

I am at a complete loss as asthetically this is my favorite rifle. But frankly It is the worst firearm that I have ever purchased.

The gas plug is turned correctly by the way.

It simply seems that not enough gas is venting to the piston.

Any ideas?

____________________________________________________________________

May 07, 2006 12:18

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
I have a stainless SA58 Carbine that has the occasional (yet predictable) Failure to Eject after the gun gets heated up with 2-3 mags. The empty round will paritally eject with the primer end stuck in the gun between the boltcarrier and upper receiver. I have already drilled out the gas hole with a #31 bit and have the gas regulator in the completely closed position. Is it safe to drill the hole with another size up bit (or maybe 2 sizes up)? Is there any negatives to doing this? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Posted: 1/14/2009 12:37:16 PM EDT

[#23]

Fire up the damn HK 94, Semi UMP (not the gimped USC), and Semi G36 (gimped SL8) production lines too!

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:16:16 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They are expected to arrive in late 2009.

Yeah, Obama's security force will be carrying them when they show up outside your house to confiscate your guns.

Well Obama wants to even arm his "SS" with these rifles, So i guess i could beat one up and take it from them.

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:30:45 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like.

ETA: IBFH&K

Do you like the fact that the 416 upper can't be used with other AR-15/M-16 typer lowers?

H&K wanted me to deliver a message: F*** YOU!

+1 i wonder wtf that is all about?

Quoted:
It says right there in the text that the no AR lower is a German government export requirement.

If they sell "assault weapons" to the public, they are ineligible for German government contracts. It is a German law issue, not a "because you suck and we hate you" issue.

Not necessarily so.........(from another board)

So how comes that the Sabre Defence and Oberland Arms AR15 available here have standard lower receiver and "the law" only affects HK?

I had a closer look at the MR223 at a local dealer here last week. It doesn't take Diemaco and PMAGs (don't fit the mag well) and I'm not so sure about USGI mags (I didn't have one with me that day) as the magazine lips on the HK mag look different. The MR223 has a magazine safety (because you suck in gun handling) With that price tag I buy another Sabre Defence in a heartbeat instead.

Do Oberland and Sabre have German government contracts?

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:37:00 PM EDT

[#26]

An AR that is pretty much an exact copy of a "regular" AR, but with a gas piston (like tons of other manufacturers make), much more expensive AND it's NOT COMPATIBLE with other uppers and lowers.

Seriously, HK - fuck you.

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:40:35 PM EDT

[#27]

"Glock makes a better one!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist the irony.

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:41:05 PM EDT

[#28]

ost

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:42:08 PM EDT

[#29]

I think the consensus is the MR556 = no go for incompatibility except maybe for parts (barrel, piston, handguard)

Anyone thinking they might as well not offer the MR556?

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:42:10 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Already available in Canada........

http://www.crafm.com/

$4200 CAD. = $3427.06 in USD

HK can lick a ball.

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:50:52 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Not necessarily so.........(from another board)

So how comes that the Sabre Defence and Oberland Arms AR15 available here have standard lower receiver and "the law" only affects HK?

I had a closer look at the MR223 at a local dealer here last week. It doesn't take Diemaco and PMAGs (don't fit the mag well) and I'm not so sure about USGI mags (I didn't have one with me that day) as the magazine lips on the HK mag look different. The MR223 has a magazine safety (because you suck in gun handling) With that price tag I buy another Sabre Defence in a heartbeat instead.

Doesn't take 30 round mags + magazine safety = I take back my previous comment about wanting one. The receiver thing is retarded, but I can live with that. But if you can't even fire that last one in the chamber at the zombie who popped up while changing your dinky little 10 round mags, fuck it.

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:53:15 PM EDT

[#32]

"German export regulations"

.

I don't believe that bullshit for one second.

They are planning on building it in the U.S. !!!

They can easily call it a different name, or other slight differences to differentiate it from any govt. contract model. It's pure B.S. on HK's part. They KNOW that since only the upper is different, NOBODY (other than hard-core fanboys) will want to buy an HK lower. So they are deliberately designing it so you cannot just buy the upper.

Posted: 1/14/2009 1:55:42 PM EDT

[#33]

Seems about as popular as a "large hole" Colt AR.

Kinda unbelievable that they claim to make these things in the USA, yet they were still "required" to render it incompatible with other civilian legal guns??

Someone should have told them ahead of time: "Incompatible? Don't bother."

Quoted:

An AR that is pretty much an exact copy of a "regular" AR, but with a gas piston (like tons of other manufacturers make), much more expensive AND it's NOT COMPATIBLE with other uppers and lowers.

Seriously, HK - fuck you.

Posted: 1/20/2009 7:11:11 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like.

ETA: IBFH&K

Do you like the fact that the 416 upper can't be used with other AR-15/M-16 typer lowers?

H&K wanted me to deliver a message: F*** YOU!

+1 i wonder wtf that is all about?

Quoted:
It says right there in the text that the no AR lower is a German government export requirement.

If they sell "assault weapons" to the public, they are ineligible for German government contracts. It is a German law issue, not a "because you suck and we hate you" issue.

Not necessarily so.........(from another board)

So how comes that the Sabre Defence and Oberland Arms AR15 available here have standard lower receiver and "the law" only affects HK?

I had a closer look at the MR223 at a local dealer here last week. It doesn't take Diemaco and PMAGs (don't fit the mag well) and I'm not so sure about USGI mags (I didn't have one with me that day) as the magazine lips on the HK mag look different. The MR223 has a magazine safety (because you suck in gun handling) With that price tag I buy another Sabre Defence in a heartbeat instead.

Sabre Defence and Oberland Arms make semi automatic sporting rifles unlike HK which makes weapons of war. HK as a maker of weapons of war is not allowed by german law to offer semiautomatic weapons versions of their weapons of war to civilians. That's the reason for the modification made to the civilian rifle they sell that are based on their weapons of war.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - H&K MR556 and MR762: Civilian HK416 and HK417 (Page 2 of 2)

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