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Posted: 11/30/2008 8:30:20 AM EDT
So began the invasion of tiny Finland by its superpower neighbor, the USSR, which ended in Finland's surrender –– though astonishingly, still independent and mostly intact –– and the loss of nearly 1 million Soviet troops. It was an amazing display of what motivated, skilled defenders can do with next to no weapons in the face of overwhelming odds.

Basic Wiki info on the conflict

For VERY detailed technical info

From a friend of mine's personal photo collection
























Link Posted: 11/30/2008 8:39:37 AM EDT
[#1]
For you guys interested in this war, check out the movie "The Winter War". It's Finnish made, from 1990. The home-brew version is simply called "Talvisota". It's slightly cheesy, but it's good look into what the war was like. My dad bought me a copy years ago and I've wanted to go to Finland since, they have a great culture.

Because of that movie, I have a dog named "Paavo"
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:15:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for posting this. The Finn's are badass warriors.  

What's with the casket with the arm sticking up?




Edited in the interest of respecting the dead.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:16:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Get some...
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:24:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Thanks for posting this. The Finn's are badass warriors.  

What's with the casket with the arm sticking up?




Edited in the interest of respecting the dead.




Died while holding rifle? Then frozen.

Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:26:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Lotta dead people there.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:29:32 AM EDT
[#6]
"A Frozen Hell" by Trotter is a good book on the subject.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:34:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Any breakdown on Russian deaths via Finns vs weather?

They make neat knives, too.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:56:25 AM EDT
[#8]
No pics of Simo Hayha.....


Confirmed Kills
Simo Hayha W.W. II  Finland   500+



He was born in the municipality of Rautjärvi near the present-day border of Finland and Russia, and started his military service in 1925. Before entering combat, Häyhä was a farmer. During the Winter War (1939–1940) between Finland and the Soviet Union, he began his duty as a sniper against the Red Army. Working in temperatures between −20 and −40 degrees Celsius (−4 and −40 degrees Fahrenheit), and dressed completely in a white camouflage suit, Häyhä was credited with more than 500 confirmed kills against Soviet soldiers. [2]
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:03:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
No pics of Simo Hayha.....


Confirmed Kills
Simo Hayha W.W. II  Finland   500+



He was born in the municipality of Rautjärvi near the present-day border of Finland and Russia, and started his military service in 1925. Before entering combat, Häyhä was a farmer. During the Winter War (1939–1940) between Finland and the Soviet Union, he began his duty as a sniper against the Red Army. Working in temperatures between −20 and −40 degrees Celsius (−4 and −40 degrees Fahrenheit), and dressed completely in a white camouflage suit, Häyhä was credited with more than 500 confirmed kills against Soviet soldiers. [2]





Did it with mostly Irons, too...  

"The unofficial Finnish frontline figure from the battlefield of Kollaa places the number of Häyhä's sniper kills at 542. A daily account of the kills at Kollaa was conducted for the Finnish snipers. Häyhä used a Finnish variant, M/28, of the Soviet Mosin-Nagant rifle (known as "Pystykorva" rifle, meaning "spitz"), because it suited his small frame (5 ft 3 in/1.60 m). He preferred to use iron sights rather than telescopic sights to present a smaller target (the sniper must raise his head higher when using a telescopic sight), to prevent visibility risks (a telescopic sight's glass can fog up easily), and aid concealment (sunlight glare in telescopic sight lenses can reveal a sniper's position). Another tactic used by Häyhä was to freeze the snow in front of him so that the shot wouldn't puff the snow, thus revealing his position.

Besides his sniper kills, Simo Häyhä was also credited with as many as two hundred kills with a Suomi M-31 SMG, thus bringing his credited kills to at least 705. However, the latter claim has never been substantiated. All of Häyhä's kills were accomplished within 100 days, prior to injuries caused by an enemy bullet. Häyhä's record of an average of 5 kills a day, almost one kill per daylight hour of the short winter day, is unique, and he was called unstoppable by the Russian Army."
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:15:55 AM EDT
[#10]

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hayha.html
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:22:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
"A Frozen Hell" by Trotter is a good book on the subject.



Thank you.
Runs off to Amazon.com
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:26:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:26:31 AM EDT
[#13]
My father was there.

Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:27:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Also google Lauri Torni [Larry Thorne].

Served as a Fin Soldier, then German soldier, and finally as a Green Beret.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:35:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Thanks for posting this. The Finn's are badass warriors.  





Edited in the interest of respecting the dead.


Finland has produced some great F1 drivers. I guess that goes along with the warrior mind set.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:36:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Those Finns sure put a smack down on  Ivan!
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:45:23 AM EDT
[#17]
The Winter War in it's entirety is on youtube in 20 or so parts.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 1:07:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Re: the arm sticking out of the coffin,

The winter of 1939-1940 was the coldest recorded in nearly 100 years. Temps approaching and passing 40 degrees Farenheit below zero were common. It doesn't take a human body long to freeze solid at those temps. And at that point the only way to get an arm to bend the way you want is to thaw it or cut it with a saw.

The photos in my original post are some that were released by the Finnish Defense Forces only last year as part of a large declassification. They are some of the most personal and disturbing images from the war that I've seen. The extreme cold freezes dead men as they died –– and that's how they'll stay until thawed.

Re: Simo Hayhaa:

Here is a link to an interview with Simo conducted by Tuco of gunboards.com:

http://mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

I do believe that some portion of his kills were taked while using the kp/31 rather than "sniping" in the fashion we are used to. Still an astounding feat.

Link Posted: 11/30/2008 1:13:52 PM EDT
[#19]
No way !  It's almost comical

Link Posted: 11/30/2008 1:18:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Re: the arm sticking out of the coffin,

The winter of 1939-1940 was the coldest recorded in nearly 100 years. Temps approaching and passing 40 degrees Farenheit below zero were common. It doesn't take a human body long to freeze solid at those temps. And at that point the only way to get an arm to bend the way you want is to thaw it or cut it with a saw.

The photos in my original post are some that were released by the Finnish Defense Forces only last year as part of a large declassification. They are some of the most personal and disturbing images from the war that I've seen. The extreme cold freezes dead men as they died –– and that's how they'll stay until thawed.

Re: Simo Hayhaa:

Here is a link to an interview with Simo conducted by Tuco of gunboards.com:

http://mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

I do believe that some portion of his kills were taked while using the kp/31 rather than "sniping" in the fashion we are used to. Still an astounding feat.




When I worked on a commercial fishing boat, we'd have huge cod tails that sometimes froze "outside" the pan, making them impossible to fit in bags.   We couldn't waste time, so we took a huge mallet and broke off the offending tails, then shoved the frozen block into the bag.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 1:23:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Finns are badass, They make badass guns also, Valmets are great!
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 1:38:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Finns are badass, They make badass guns also, Valmets are great!


And why do you suppose Finland has one of the largest standing European militaries?

Those Valmets were made to point East...
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:03:51 PM EDT
[#23]


Seriously?  Did he talk about it much?
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:08:06 PM EDT
[#24]
They pretty much handed the Russians their ass.


The "White Death".









Why we fight.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:14:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Great post, thank you.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:15:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Fighting any major battle in sub zero cold must be sheer hell for the participants.



The Battle of the Bulge was also fought in terrible cold - the winter of 1944/45 was one of the coldest Europe had ever recorded.



Ditto these guys (picture below), fighting at the Chosin Reservoir in Korea in 1950.  There were an estimated 7,500 frostbite casualties on the American side alone, and our guys did not have proper footwear for the conditions.



Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:18:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Thanks for posting!
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:19:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Out of the ten or so Russians I know and work with only one knows what the Winter war was.  Soviet History Rewriting at its best.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:46:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:


Seriously?  Did he talk about it much?


He said it was very cold, and very little food.  He got a cup of rice pudding to celebrate Christmas eve, and thought he should save it for breakfast when he was hungriest. He said when he got up in the morning, he opened the chow tin he'd wrapped in cloth and used as part of an improvised pillow in his tent, and found the rice pudding frozen solid.

He was one of four from his family to fight in the war.  I was named after his brother who was killed in the war.   The last letter his mother ever got from the brother stated he was real excited as he was joining a new unit that was very aggressive in fighting the Russians.  They never knew what happened to him.

I recall he used to say the Russians had very little regard for age,  they'd send soldiers who hadn't even reached puberty, along with men with gray hair, mixed with their optimum fighting age troops.




Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:47:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I do believe that some portion of his kills were taked while using the kp/31 rather than "sniping" in the fashion we are used to. Still an astounding feat.



It was 500+ with the Mosin, and 200+ with the submachine gun.
He would ski down through the Soviet column with a sub-gun in each hand.  10 seconds and 60 rounds later he would disappear into the trees on the other side.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:57:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I do believe that some portion of his kills were taked while using the kp/31 rather than "sniping" in the fashion we are used to. Still an astounding feat.



It was 500+ with the Mosin, and 200+ with the submachine gun.
He would ski down through the Soviet column with a sub-gun in each hand.  10 seconds and 60 rounds later he would disappear into the trees on the other side.


This is info I have not heard before. Do you have a source for it? Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 2:58:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I do believe that some portion of his kills were taked while using the kp/31 rather than "sniping" in the fashion we are used to. Still an astounding feat.



It was 500+ with the Mosin, and 200+ with the submachine gun.
He would ski down through the Soviet column with a sub-gun in each hand.  10 seconds and 60 rounds later he would disappear into the trees on the other side.



Yep, one of the most bad-assed warriors of all time.

Link Posted: 11/30/2008 3:04:40 PM EDT
[#33]


Great photos, Colonel! If you don't mind me asking, where did you find those "Sea Bird Publishing" ones?

Incedentally, this one:


...is a Swedish volunteer aiming a M1896 Swedish Mauser. Approx. 20K M96s were send to Finland as aid and 5-6K Swedes volunteered to fight.

There are a few of the Finnish [SA]-marked M96s out there still, like this one:

Link Posted: 11/30/2008 3:07:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Great read!  Tell us about Finnish gun laws!
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 3:21:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I do believe that some portion of his kills were taked while using the kp/31 rather than "sniping" in the fashion we are used to. Still an astounding feat.



It was 500+ with the Mosin, and 200+ with the submachine gun.
He would ski down through the Soviet column with a sub-gun in each hand.  10 seconds and 60 rounds later he would disappear into the trees on the other side.


This is info I have not heard before. Do you have a source for it? Thanks in advance.




I don't remember where I read it.  The numbers are mentioned above in the thread.
The skiing through the column is in one of the books I read; he wasn't the only one who did it.  After they cut a motti out they would work it over like this and with the Mosins.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 3:26:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Random Google search from some time ago.
I was looking for some info on the Battle of Suomussalmi.

The Finn babe caught my attention.
IIRC the bare-chested soldier is back home on summer leave.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 3:35:08 PM EDT
[#37]

Finland rocks!
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 3:45:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
The Winter War in it's entirety is on youtube in 20 or so parts.


whatching now!
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 3:56:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks for the post and history lesson
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:40:37 PM EDT
[#40]
In a way I feel bad for the Russian conscripts who were sent out as cannon fodders.  In the book "A Frozen Hell", it described how after the Fins did a tactical retreat, the Russians swarmed their abandoned field kitchen and started gorging themselves.  The Fins wiped them out, with many still have food in their hands and mouths.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:45:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Funny the Fins were able to hold the Russians off while Germany got its ass kicked.  I'm sure geography has a lot to do with that though.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:55:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Funny the Fins were able to hold the Russians off while Germany got its ass kicked.  I'm sure geography has a lot to do with that though.


I think the climate was the deciding factor in both instances.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 9:59:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Funny the Fins were able to hold the Russians off while Germany got its ass kicked.  I'm sure geography has a lot to do with that though.


I think the climate was the deciding factor in both instances.



The Russians did fine in the Russian winters against Germany, not so much against the Finns.  Then again Germany got its ass kicked out of Russia and right back into Berlin through the Spring and Summer as well.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:00:57 PM EDT
[#44]
good topic and replies, thanks
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:03:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Funny the Fins were able to hold the Russians off while Germany got its ass kicked.  I'm sure geography has a lot to do with that though.


I'm not sure about this, but I would speculate that the Soviet Officer Corps probably suffered from the purges, and the Finns were able to take on Soviet troops who were poorly led.  Combine that with the fact that the Finns were defending, not attacking, and the battlefield would seem to favor the Finns.  

To look at and hold an M39 compared to a M91/30 would explain why that war didn't go as well for the USSR as they hoped.
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:05:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Makes me proud to be a Finn, even if only partially.

Also, "Ambush" is a good movie, but I can't remember if it's set in the Winter war or the Continuation war.

More good fun: KevOs 4
Link Posted: 11/30/2008 10:16:59 PM EDT
[#47]
This makes me want an M39 again you bastards...
Link Posted: 12/1/2008 8:16:59 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Funny the Fins were able to hold the Russians off while Germany got its ass kicked.  I'm sure geography has a lot to do with that though.


I think the climate was the deciding factor in both instances.



The Russians did fine in the Russian winters against Germany, not so much against the Finns.  Then again Germany got its ass kicked out of Russia and right back into Berlin through the Spring and Summer as well.


The Soviet's skill in winter fighting against the Germans was based largely on the lessons learned during the winter of 39-40 against the Finns.
Link Posted: 12/1/2008 8:18:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
This makes me want an M39 again you bastards...


The M39, while officially adopted in 1939, did not go into production into 1941. They were busy fighting instead.

The VAST majority of Finn soldiers were armed with Imperial Russian M1891 rifles... inferior even to the M91/30. The Finns scooped up 91/30s wherever possible and pressed them into immediate service.
Link Posted: 12/1/2008 8:27:09 AM EDT
[#50]
A thought about the arm sticking out of the coffin.

If they cared enough to put the dude in the coffin, why not do it properly and boil some water to thaw that arm instead of cutting a hole  in the casket so that it will stick out for everyone to see before burial.
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