Quoted: To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement.  Get a fucking life and a job.  Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality.

your argument defeats you.. the fact that the drugs were illegal didna prevent your friends from dieing..

like i said laws dont prevent folks from using drugs. never have.. never will.. perhaps if we did like the mooslim countries do and execute those who possess drugs or cut off the hands or whatever.. extremely harsh and quick punishment.. they might have some impact... but the off chance you might get caught using crack in your basement stops no one from being an idiot...

Quoted: To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement.  Get a fucking life and a job.  Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality.

Huffing paint is illegal. Therefore nobody does it.

Quoted: Quoted: To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement.  Get a fucking life and a job.  Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality. Huffing paint is illegal. Therefore nobody does it.

You've never been to Flour Bluff in Corpus, have you?

There is a stigma with illegal narcotics that does, in fact keep some people from using them.  My problem with legalizing them is they are recreational, not needed.  Remove the stigma and you will get more users.  Many/most of your new users will be kids who, with the stigma gone and easy access will just want to try it "once".

Quoted: To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement.  Get a fucking life and a job.  Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality.

I'm sorry for your loss.  I have had drugs wreck the lives of a few of my friends.  They managed to get straightened back out though.  I have seen what it does first hand, and I know there is NO WAY that we can win this "war".  Supply and demand will win, plain and simple.

This proposal would however remove the power and money those markets provide to truly evil people.  That would do a lot of good in our country, and other countries world wide.

Quoted: I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs.  Could you point me to that part please?

I may not agree fully with the OP (I do for the most part); However, you need to re-read the Constitution for the United States of America, 0612Devil.

The constitution does not grant rights to the people. The Constitution describes the limited powers bestowed upon their government by the people. All rights are retained by the people.

Regardless of the topic of this post, a fundamental understanding of the Constitution is paramount to an honest discussion.

Quoted: If you make drugs legal you better also repeal ALL gun laws. I mean ALL of them as in the NFA '34, '68, '86, and '89. I'm going to need some full auto and DD for the impending disorder.  Legal hand grenades would be one of my choice weapons for CCW....good for breaking contact with the "crack hordes"

+1

I have no problem with legalizing/decriminalizing drugs, but you have to get rid of every social welfare program out there.  No Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, etc.

And if someone high on drugs is causing mischief, the police should be allowed to put them down like dogs and I shouldn't be forced to treat them in the ER/hospital.

With freedom comes responsibility.

Quoted: So tell me,  if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin? I mean, it'd be legal, so that'd mean it's OK, right? I could argue that maybe some things are illegal for a VERY GOOD REASON.  It doesn't excuse the fact that the war on drugs is a really bad joke with no punchline,  though.  I'll agree with you on THAT part of the issue.    But would you want your kids using what would be legal if we legalized drugs? Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions. It's always tough when idealism collides with reality. CJ

You got it backwards.  Now, they can do just what you say.  If it is legal, it will be controlled just like liquor.

Now, that's not to say that they won't get some adult to get it for them, but the same thing happens with booze.

Quoted: There is a stigma with illegal narcotics that does, in fact keep some people from using them.  My problem with legalizing them is they are recreational, not needed.  Remove the stigma and you will get more users.  Many/most of your new users will be kids who, with the stigma gone and easy access will just want to try it "once".

And lots of kids use it because there is a stigma attached.  Bad is cool.

Quoted: To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement.  Get a fucking life and a job.  Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality.

Weed killed a lot of your friends eh.

Quoted: There is a DRAMATIC difference and you know it. I can go to the range and shoot all day,  blowing thousands of rounds and never hurt anyone but myself. Can you think of any drug other than marijuana that you could do all day and have no harm come of it?     You can't OD on shooting.   Going to the range and doing mag dumps doesn't fry holes in your brain and turn you into a psychotic freak like LSD sometimes can or like PCP is likely to do,  or turn you into a shivering zombie like meth does. CJ

How many people die accidentally from firearms every year?  Don't try to tell me that firearms aren't dangerous, to yourself or to others.

Quoted: So tell me,  if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin? I mean, it'd be legal, so that'd mean it's OK, right? I could argue that maybe some things are illegal for a VERY GOOD REASON.  It doesn't excuse the fact that the war on drugs is a really bad joke with no punchline,  though.  I'll agree with you on THAT part of the issue.    But would you want your kids using what would be legal if we legalized drugs? Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions. It's always tough when idealism collides with reality. CJ

"it's for the CHILDREN, for the CHILDREN, for the CHILDREN........................."

Prohibitionists project their own inadequate self-control issues on completely innocent and responsible third parties.

How about this.  You worry about YOUR CHILDREN, and I'll worry about MINE.

If you can't control your own children, what makes you think you can control mine ?

Oh teh noes---REEFER MADNESS is sweeping the nation.

Repeal the CSA.  Give Darwin a greater chance.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

With out a doubt marijuana should be legalized.  To all the people who are admittley against using drugs.  I would put money on it that you know someone fairly well who is dedicated to their family and their jobs that use marijuana and other then that are law abiding citizens.

Legalizing it would take it away from the underground and make it harder for kids to get, just like alcohol or tobacco.

I'm not sure what to think on the legalization of hard drugs.  Some arguments for it make sense to me but there are many terribly evil substances that will inevitably destroy lives.

For the record I do not use drugs besides alcohol, tobacco, and caffine.

Quoted: I think there is something extraordinarily fucked up about someone who supports the legalization of hard drugs. Speaking for myself,  I don't even smoke or drink.  I have no use whatsoever for mind-altering substances.

I support the legalization of all drugs.

I don't smoke or drink.  I abstain from caffeine.  

You seem to think the reason why people want drugs legalized is so they can use them.  There are many people who wants this war on drugs to end because it is unconstitutional.  

I own guns, but even if I didn't I wouldn't want the government to ban them.  It is wrong to do so.  Same deal.

As to "where does it say we have the right to keep and use drugs in the constitution?" I ask you to find me where it says we have the right to style our hair the way we choose.  We have many, many rights that are not enumerated on parchment with iron gall ink.

Emotional, knee-jerk responses are the same reason .gov will be able to ban your guns.  .Gov screws up everything they touch.  Legalize drugs, repeal all gun laws, get rid of social security, welfare, etc.  Let the people take care of themselves.  Those that don't know how, either learn, or tough shit.

Quoted: Emotional, knee-jerk responses are the same reason .gov will be able to ban your guns.  .Gov screws up everything they touch.  Legalize drugs, repeal all gun laws, get rid of social security, welfare, etc.  Let the people take care of themselves.  Those that don't know how, either learn, or tough shit.

I have no use for emotion in debates such as this.

As cold as it may sound I do not give a fuck about anyones friends or family members who destroyed their lives with whatever actions they did.

THEY made the choice to do those things, it's THEIR fault it happened.

Obviously the War on Drugs and prohibition didn't stop it from happening anyway, so the point is moot.

Quoted: What I dont understand is why people think Meth, Heroin and Crack should be legal, while medical drugs that solve the problem but cause other serious health problems should be banned. Do you think the FDA would approve the selling of Heroin Alcohol and Crack Tobacco ? No.

If aspirin had not been around as long as it has it would never be approved by the FDA.

Quoted: You guys are just a bunch of wanna-be dopers, that's all.   Are you going to vote for Obama, too?   You are welcome to have your own opinion on the matter.  But I think there is something extraordinarily fucked up about someone who supports the legalization of hard drugs. Speaking for myself,  I don't even smoke or drink.  I have no use whatsoever for mind-altering substances. CJ

And you wouldn't change if it was legal, so BFD.

I didn't abstain from hard drugs because they were illegal, I abstained cuz they were addictive and could kill you. I smoked a shit TON of weed in my youth though.

Education is the key, not legislation.

Quoted: There is a stigma with illegal narcotics that does, in fact keep some people from using them.  My problem with legalizing them is they are recreational, not needed.  Remove the stigma and you will get more users.  Many/most of your new users will be kids who, with the stigma gone and easy access will just want to try it "once".

Like they do with alcohol?  This

Quoted: You guys are just a bunch of wanna-be dopers, that's all.   Are you going to vote for Obama, too?   You are welcome to have your own opinion on the matter.  But I think there is something extraordinarily fucked up about someone who supports the legalization of hard drugs. Speaking for myself,  I don't even smoke or drink.  I have no use whatsoever for mind-altering substances. CJ

Way to totally ignore logic and play off of emotions.  You FEEL something should be banned, so you push for it?  That's ridiculous.  Do you not understand how your own argument you're presenting here can backfire on you when it comes to the issue of RKBA?

I don't smoke or drink, I've NEVER (let me reiterate this: never, not once, zero times, in the past I have not consumed, etc) used drugs.  I've never smoked pot, I've never done coke, I've never done any drugs.  It just wasn't a risk I was willing to take.  They can seriously harm your body.  However, I understand the basic tenant that someone should be able to do anything to their own body that they want, so long as it doesn't infringe upon anyone else's basic rights.  What's so hard to understand about that?

Quoted: You guys are just a bunch of wanna-be dopers, that's all.   Are you going to vote for Obama, too?   You are welcome to have your own opinion on the matter.  But I think there is something extraordinarily fucked up about someone who supports the legalization of hard drugs. Speaking for myself,  I don't even smoke or drink.  I have no use whatsoever for mind-altering substances. CJ

Yeah, freedom is just so "extraordinarily fucked up".  And yes, I've seen very close friends screw their lives up with drugs.  I've also had friends shoot themselves yet I don't want guns banned.  Shit, I don't even want suicide banned.

I am fundamentally against all laws that ban things, be it lawn darts, drugs or guns.

But, I have seen how drugs destroy lives of the users and how it affects their children by growing up in a drug house, I can see how this drug ban is an attempt at doing good. The problem with kids and drug houses is going to be a problem whether drugs are legal or illegal, thus making it a non-factor in the decision.

However good the bans intentions are, the ban is just making drug lords richer. Economics 101, when the govt steps in and bans a market, it opens up a black market and the price goes up.  The "war on drugs" can be won, but only by making drugs legal and taxed, much like alcohol and cigarettes.  

Let people have the decision to ruin their lives, the US is a free country right   But I dont ever see drugs being legal in my lifetime because the govt makes too much money off of enforcing drug laws in the courts and lawyers and the fine folks at the DEA dont want to lose their jobs.

For what its worth, I made these conclusions through logic and education.  Not because Im a druggie and want drugs. I have never done drugs before and dont intend to, but I believe people should have the freedom to make that choice.

Here's the problem:  Guns aren't an unknown quantity.   What they will do is well-defined and the conditions under which they will do specific things are well known.    The bullet only
goes where the gun is pointed and it only fires if someone squeezes the trigger, or rarely,
it get dropped or something.  There's no ambiguity about what it does or how it does it,
and anyone who is at all knowledgeable about them will be able to figure out what will
happen when a gun is part of a defined set of conditions.


Narcotics, on the other hand,  are unpredictable.  You not only don't know how a given
person will respond to them,  you can't even know how a regular user will respond to the
SAME drug he's taken before,  the next time he takes it.   Maybe he'll take a nap, or
maybe he'll snap and go permanently insane.  You just don't know and you CAN'T know.


NOBODY can use hard narcotics in a responsible recreational manner because the outcome
CAN NOT BE PREDICTED.   The inability to achieve a predictable outcome guarantees that
responsible use of that substance is impossible.    


When a substance can't be used recreationally in a responsible manner, logic, reason,
and common sense dictates that that substance has no place in society and should be
under total ban.


CJ

YES!!!!


Because we all know the first step to freedom and smaller government is to legalize drugs.


Never mind that it is just the big .gov liberals that came up with this plan. I promise they have no hidden agenda, they just want freedom.

Quoted: When you watch someone you once respected, admired, or even loved, turn from a fine upstanding human being into a quivering lump of flesh that could not be trusted with anything for any reason,  due to the overwhelming desire for nothing but another fix, then MAYBE you will begin to understand. CJ

Thank GOD that drugs are illegal so this sort of thing won't happen!

Whew!

For a second there I thought we were throwing all this time, money, and these Constitutional rights at a solution that wasn't even fixing the problem!

Thank goodness our overlords had the sense to see that banning objects prevents their use.

Quoted: Here's the problem:  Guns aren't an unknown quantity.   What they will do is well-defined and the conditions under which they will do specific things are well known.    The bullet only goes where the gun is pointed and it only fires if someone squeezes the trigger, or rarely, it get dropped or something.  There's no ambiguity about what it does or how it does it, and anyone who is at all knowledgeable about them will be able to figure out what will happen when a gun is part of a defined set of conditions. Narcotics, on the other hand,  are unpredictable.  You not only don't know how a given person will respond to them,  you can't even know how a regular user will respond to the SAME drug he's taken before,  the next time he takes it.   Maybe he'll take a nap, or maybe he'll snap and go permanently insane.  You just don't know and you CAN'T know. NOBODY can use hard narcotics in a responsible recreational manner because the outcome CAN NOT BE PREDICTED.   The inability to achieve a predictable outcome guarantees that responsible use of that substance is impossible.     When a substance can't be used recreationally in a responsible manner, logic, reason, and common sense dictates that that substance has no place in society and should be under total ban. CJ

You're still missing the point.  Let me make it big and red for you:

THEY DID IT TO THEMSELVES.  IF THEY HAVE AN UNFORSEEN REACTION, IT IS A CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR ACTIONS.  NO ONE FORCED THEM TO TAKE THESE DRUGS.  THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE GETTING INTO WHEN THEY TOOK THEM.

The same logic could be used against alcohol and tobacco.  You never know how quickly someone is going to get cancer from smoking/dipping and you never know if someone is going to be allergic to alcohol.  Hell, you never know if someone is going to be allergic to anesthesia and die.  Should we ban all of these substances?

Quoted: So tell me,  if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a . . .  shot of heroin?

Well, it will cut down on childhood obesity.  

Quoted: NOBODY can use hard narcotics in a responsible recreational manner because the outcome CAN NOT BE PREDICTED.   The inability to achieve a predictable outcome guarantees that responsible use of that substance is impossible.     When a substance can't be used recreationally in a responsible manner, logic, reason, and common sense dictates that that substance has no place in society and should be under total ban.

Hitler used methamphetamines safely for years  Shit, that's probably a bad example.

Quoted: Quoted: NOBODY can use hard narcotics in a responsible recreational manner because the outcome CAN NOT BE PREDICTED.   The inability to achieve a predictable outcome guarantees that responsible use of that substance is impossible.     When a substance can't be used recreationally in a responsible manner, logic, reason, and common sense dictates that that substance has no place in society and should be under total ban. Hitler used methamphetamines safely for years  Shit, that's probably a bad example.

It's too bad we've never outlawed a mind altering substance for a while and then legalized it again.

Oh well, I'm off to the speakeasy to drink some bathtub gin cooked up by some tweaker. Or possibly some moonshine distilled using a car radiator. Or whatever the local organized crime syndicate could most profitably smuggle in this week. No need to worry though, only narcotics are unpredictable.

Quoted: Quoted: So tell me,  if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a . . .  shot of heroin? Well, it will cut down on childhood obesity.

And make "family time" for the assholes easier.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So tell me,  if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a . . .  shot of heroin? Well, it will cut down on childhood obesity.   And make "family time" for the assholes easier.

dat shor be mah boy.  He be smok'in da chronic wit his old man.  Damn.  

Quoted: Quoted: NOBODY can use hard narcotics in a responsible recreational manner because the outcome CAN NOT BE PREDICTED.   The inability to achieve a predictable outcome guarantees that responsible use of that substance is impossible.     When a substance can't be used recreationally in a responsible manner, logic, reason, and common sense dictates that that substance has no place in society and should be under total ban. Hitler used methamphetamines safely for years  Shit, that's probably a bad example.

Yeah, because drugs made Hitler kill millions of people.

Quoted: Quoted: I took a look through The Constitution and couldn't find the amendment that stated we have the right to keep and bear drugs.  Could you point me to that part please? How about the converse: where does the government have the power to ban drugs? Hint: You have be an FDR-styled liberal to believe the government has this power.

+1
In addition, wasn't there some document that spoke of "Pursuit of Happiness"?
A little reefer on occasion would definitely put a smile on my face.
Not to mention all the uber-successful drug users that were able to achieve their status without "help" from the criminal justice system.
G.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Cindy McCain, etc...

Quoted: So tell me,  if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin? I mean, it'd be legal, so that'd mean it's OK, right? I could argue that maybe some things are illegal for a VERY GOOD REASON.  It doesn't excuse the fact that the war on drugs is a really bad joke with no punchline,  though.  I'll agree with you on THAT part of the issue.    But would you want your kids using what would be legal if we legalized drugs? Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions. It's always tough when idealism collides with reality. CJ

The fact that you Freedom & Liberty hating Drug Warriors refuse to accept is that any individual who wishes those substances can obtain them today.  It just costs a crapload more thanks to the black market.  As a result, vast criminal networks have sprung up and support product manufacture, transport and sale.  Thanks for the no-knock raids!  

It will never cease to amaze me, how a group of people so pro-gun as to call for the complete deregulation of squad based weapons, or light artillery, will at the same time tell others how good of a reason it is that drugs are illegal.

I know, there's no amendment in the BOR protecting them.  Still, your logic seems flawed.  Every argument you use against drugs, is one that the Brady Bunch uses against us.

Quoted: It will never cease to amaze me, how a group of people so pro-gun as to call for the complete deregulation of squad based weapons, or light artillery, will at the same time tell others how good of a reason it is that drugs are illegal. I know, there's no amendment in the BOR protecting them.  Still, your logic seems flawed.  Every argument you use against drugs, is one that the Brady Bunch uses against us.

But...they love freedom!  Well, as long as that freedom is doing what they think is ok.

Quoted: There is a DRAMATIC difference and you know it. I can go to the range and shoot all day,  blowing thousands of rounds and never hurt anyone but myself. Can you think of any drug other than marijuana that you could do all day and have no harm come of it?     You can't OD on shooting.   Going to the range and doing mag dumps doesn't fry holes in your brain and turn you into a psychotic freak like LSD sometimes can or like PCP is likely to do,  or turn you into a shivering zombie like meth does. These drugs can NOT be used in a responsible manner!  You can NOT use them and avoid coming to eventual harm!   I would only argue that other than the addiction itself, heroin isn't as destructive as the others i've mentioned, so long as you keep your addiction fed.   I guess you might even be able to argue that cocaine use doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability of SOME people to use it AND have fairly normal and productive lives.   But only a fool would believe that some drugs aren't HIGHLY destructive and have NO legitimate place or use in our society. CJ

That's right.  We all need the government to protect us from ourselves.

Sorry, I what someone does with their own body is a matter for them with whatever higher power they believe in, not me, backed up by the lethal force of government.

Quoted: To those who want to legalize drugs, Put a couple of friend in the dirt from narcotics, the review your arguement.  Get a fucking life and a job.  Go huff some paint if you need to escape from reality.

Sounds like your couple of friends failed at life.

Quoted: Here's the problem:  Guns aren't an unknown quantity.   What they will do is well-defined and the conditions under which they will do specific things are well known.    The bullet only goes where the gun is pointed and it only fires if someone squeezes the trigger, or rarely, it get dropped or something.  There's no ambiguity about what it does or how it does it, and anyone who is at all knowledgeable about them will be able to figure out what will happen when a gun is part of a defined set of conditions. Narcotics, on the other hand,  are unpredictable.  You not only don't know how a given person will respond to them,  you can't even know how a regular user will respond to the SAME drug he's taken before,  the next time he takes it.   Maybe he'll take a nap, or maybe he'll snap and go permanently insane.  You just don't know and you CAN'T know. NOBODY can use hard narcotics in a responsible recreational manner because the outcome CAN NOT BE PREDICTED.   The inability to achieve a predictable outcome guarantees that responsible use of that substance is impossible.     When a substance can't be used recreationally in a responsible manner, logic, reason, and common sense dictates that that substance has no place in society and should be under total ban. CJ

Society is always going to have stupid people who do stupid things to themselves.  Drugs are between 10,000% and 20,000% marked up thanks to the black market.  Druggies, to support their expensive habits, turn to crime to get money.  Drug pushers stake out turf, which results in gang violence as it is extremely profitable.  People kill over money.  Government, thanks to emotional knee-jerk Liberty-haters, is only too happy to pass laws allowing them to curtail freedoms, all for our own protections from ourselves.

Prior to the 1930s, when this stuff started getting outlawed (I think marijuana was the first), the percentage of population who used drugs regularly was about the same as today.  

In summary, the War on Some Drugs has resulted in:

1) Curtailment of freedoms
2) No knock raids by the police and innocent deaths thanks to cop fuckups or lying sources
3) Fishing expeditions when one encounters a cop
4) Extreme suspicion, even downright hatred of police by segments of the populace
5) Higher prices
6) Gang violence that spills over into the streets and now the suburbs
7) MS-13 empowerment
8) Mexican gang empowerment
9) Huge federal/state government agencies
10) Enormous cost for detaining upwards of 750,000 non-violent drug offenders
11) Little or no reduction in the % of population who uses drugs.

The winners:

Drug sellers & government

The losers:

Drug users and non-drug users.

Yeah, good fight!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a DRAMATIC difference and you know it. I can go to the range and shoot all day,  blowing thousands of rounds and never hurt anyone but myself. Can you think of any drug other than marijuana that you could do all day and have no harm come of it?     You can't OD on shooting.   Going to the range and doing mag dumps doesn't fry holes in your brain and turn you into a psychotic freak like LSD sometimes can or like PCP is likely to do,  or turn you into a shivering zombie like meth does. These drugs can NOT be used in a responsible manner!  You can NOT use them and avoid coming to eventual harm!   I would only argue that other than the addiction itself, heroin isn't as destructive as the others i've mentioned, so long as you keep your addiction fed.   I guess you might even be able to argue that cocaine use doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability of SOME people to use it AND have fairly normal and productive lives.   But only a fool would believe that some drugs aren't HIGHLY destructive and have NO legitimate place or use in our society. CJ Why does it bother you so much what other people do to their body?  As long as it isn't harming you, what does it matter? That response tells me two things:  You have not witnessed a close familiy member or friend destroy himself (or herself) with drugs. And Thomas Jefferson did not have knowledge of modern-day narcotics and their effects, and if he had, he would undoubtedly have seen their extreme dangers and taken a distinctively different stance on them. When you watch someone you once respected, admired, or even loved, turn from a fine upstanding human being into a quivering lump of flesh that could not be trusted with anything for any reason,  due to the overwhelming desire for nothing but another fix, then MAYBE you will begin to understand. Those who have never seen what's in the sewers think they're just big clean pipes with water in them.   Absolutely disconnected from reality.   You've got to at least visit the world of the plumber to see what it's really like down there. CJ

I have seen several former friends die from drug abuse. I'm expecting to get the same news about my brother in law any day. I've seen it first hand several times, and involving people I once respected and considered a good friend.

Conversely I've seen a couple of friends return to reality an rebuild their lives without drugs and we're friends again.

If the drugs were legal or not, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have made the same choices.

Here's the one main reason drugs will never be legal. There's a lot of money made by the court system on drug offenses.

ETA: For the record, I'm not now nor ever have been a drug user. Seeing addicts up close and how they act is the best prevention there is.

Quoted: Here's the problem:  Guns aren't an unknown quantity.   What they will do is well-defined and the conditions under which they will do specific things are well known.    The bullet only goes where the gun is pointed and it only fires if someone squeezes the trigger, or rarely, it get dropped or something.  There's no ambiguity about what it does or how it does it, and anyone who is at all knowledgeable about them will be able to figure out what will happen when a gun is part of a defined set of conditions. Narcotics, on the other hand,  are unpredictable.  You not only don't know how a given person will respond to them,  you can't even know how a regular user will respond to the SAME drug he's taken before,  the next time he takes it.   Maybe he'll take a nap, or maybe he'll snap and go permanently insane.  You just don't know and you CAN'T know. NOBODY can use hard narcotics in a responsible recreational manner because the outcome CAN NOT BE PREDICTED.   The inability to achieve a predictable outcome guarantees that responsible use of that substance is impossible.     When a substance can't be used recreationally in a responsible manner, logic, reason, and common sense dictates that that substance has no place in society and should be under total ban. CJ

Huh.

Quoted: Here's the problem:  Guns aren't an unknown quantity.   What they will do is well-defined and the conditions under which they will do specific things are well known.    The bullet only goes where the gun is pointed and it only fires if someone squeezes the trigger, or rarely, it get dropped or something.  There's no ambiguity about what it does or how it does it, and anyone who is at all knowledgeable about them will be able to figure out what will happen when a gun is part of a defined set of conditions. Narcotics, on the other hand,  are unpredictable.  You not only don't know how a given person will respond to them,  you can't even know how a regular user will respond to the SAME drug he's taken before,  the next time he takes it.   Maybe he'll take a nap, or maybe he'll snap and go permanently insane.  You just don't know and you CAN'T know. NOBODY can use hard narcotics in a responsible recreational manner because the outcome CAN NOT BE PREDICTED.   The inability to achieve a predictable outcome guarantees that responsible use of that substance is impossible.     When a substance can't be used recreationally in a responsible manner, logic, reason, and common sense dictates that that substance has no place in society and should be under total ban. CJ

Bullets are an unknown quantity.

In your analogy, the gun is the pipe or needle, and the bullet is the drug.

You suck at argument.

Quoted: You can't OD on shooting.   Going to the range and doing mag dumps doesn't fry holes in your brain and turn you into a psychotic freak like LSD sometimes can or like PCP is likely to do,  or turn you into a shivering zombie like meth does. These drugs can NOT be used in a responsible manner!  You can NOT use them and avoid coming to eventual harm!   I would only argue that other than the addiction itself, heroin isn't as destructive as the others i've mentioned, so long as you keep your addiction fed.   I guess you might even be able to argue that cocaine use doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability of SOME people to use it AND have fairly normal and productive lives.   But only a fool would believe that some drugs aren't HIGHLY destructive and have NO legitimate place or use in our society. CJ

One could write a book on what you don't understand about drugs and freedom.

And BTW I have had a family member take themselves out (slowly) with drugs--this time it was AZT)

Quoted: Quoted: What I dont understand is why people think Meth, Heroin and Crack should be legal, while medical drugs that solve the problem but cause other serious health problems should be banned. Do you think the FDA would approve the selling of Heroin Alcohol and Crack Tobacco ? No. If aspirin had not been around as long as it has it would never be approved by the FDA.

Can you honestly compare Heroin to alcohol and crack to tobacco? Crack and Heroin are highly addictive. They also cause serious health problems. Yeah tobacco and alcohol arent good for you, but they are not hard drugs.

I find it disturbing that so many are comparing guns to narcotics in this thread.  Did you really think that through before doing it?  You are making a case for the freedoms, and have completely forgotten the articles you are comparing to each other.  Anyone here think an 8-ball is comparable to an AR?  The ultimate use of these two items are drastically different.  It's a very flawed arguement, and very dangerous for gun rights.  Anyone here want to put their gun rights at risk to ensure illegal narcotics are legalized?  This is exactly what some of you are essentially doing.

Many of you are arguing that controlled substances essentially only hurt the individual who gets addicted.  So, if that's what they want to do, it's their right to have the freedom to do it.  Are you serious?  Drug addicts will commit more crime to get another fix than any other class of felon out there.  Drugs are not a victimless crime.  Drugs are a catalyst for crime.  Go head and legalize drugs and watch Rome burn.  Too many of the illegal narcotics cause uncontrollable dependency at an alarming rate.  It takes more than a day to become an alcoholic.  Heroine, Meth, Crack...  In a day, it's over.  

Many of you are arguing that this "war on drugs" is a useless waste of money.  In some ways, I can agree.  I can agree there is too much time and money wasted in this endeavour, but I can hardly agree that these shortcomings alone constitute a complete 180 on the issue.  "Shit, we can't stop all the drugs from getting into the streets.  Fuck it, lets just give up.  We can call it individual freedom. Ya that's it.  That's the answer."  

I suspect a much better answer is somewhere in the middle.  More border control to stop the drugs entering the country, and legalization of Marijuana.  Legalizing marijuana has enough advantages for society as a whole to not hurt the country in the long run.  I find no redeeming qualities in legalizing any of the other narcotics.

Lastly, those of you who are using the Constitution of the US as part of your arguement to legalize all narcotics obviously are taking what you believe it says over what it actually represents and says.  I have a copy of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and it's ammendments on my desk.  And I quote:  

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establisht this Constitution for the United States of America.

I didn't see I, me, mine, or any other pronoun of the individual.  Ultimately, the Constitution is about everyone benefiting from a common freedom.  Proposing legalization of all narcotics will NOT benefit common freedoms, but deteriorate domestic Tranquility and destroy the general welfare.  So STOP using the Constitution as part of your arguement for lunacy.

Quoted: I find it disturbing that so many are comparing guns to narcotics in this thread.  Did you really think that through before doing it?  You are making a case for the freedoms, and have completely forgotten the articles you are comparing to each other.  Anyone here think an 8-ball is comparable to an AR?  The ultimate use of these two items are drastically different.  It's a very flawed arguement, and very dangerous for gun rights.  Anyone here want to put their gun rights at risk to ensure illegal narcotics are legalized?  This is exactly what some of you are essentially doing. Many of you are arguing that controlled substances essentially only hurt the individual who gets addicted.  So, if that's what they want to do, it's their right to have the freedom to do it.  Are you serious?  Drug addicts will commit more crime to get another fix than any other class of felon out there.  Drugs are not a victimless crime.  Drugs are a catalyst for crime.  Go head and legalize drugs and watch Rome burn.  Too many of the illegal narcotics cause uncontrollable dependency at an alarming rate.  It takes more than a day to become an alcoholic.  Heroine, Meth, Crack...  In a day, it's over.   Many of you are arguing that this "war on drugs" is a useless waste of money.  In some ways, I can agree.  I can agree there is too much time and money wasted in this endeavour, but I can hardly agree that these shortcomings alone constitute a complete 180 on the issue.  "Shit, we can't stop all the drugs from getting into the streets.  Fuck it, lets just give up.  We can call it individual freedom. Ya that's it.  That's the answer."   I suspect a much better answer is somewhere in the middle.  More border control to stop the drugs entering the country, and legalization of Marijuana.  Legalizing marijuana has enough advantages for society as a whole to not hurt the country in the long run.  I find no redeeming qualities in legalizing any of the other narcotics. Lastly, those of you who are using the Constitution of the US as part of your arguement to legalize all narcotics obviously are taking what you believe it says over what it actually represents and says.  I have a copy of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and it's ammendments on my desk.  And I quote:   We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establisht this Constitution for the United States of America. I didn't see I, me, mine, or any other pronoun of the individual.  Ultimately, the Constitution is about everyone benefiting from a common freedom.  Proposing legalization of all narcotics will NOT benefit common freedoms, but deteriorate domestic Tranquility and destroy the general welfare.  So STOP using the Constitution as part of your arguement for lunacy.

I find no redeeming qualities in legalizing any of the other narcotics.

Well damn, there you have it, lets keep them banned!  Government knows best!  Is there anything else you don't think has any "redeeming qualities"?  We might as well ban those too.  Are we still allowed to eat red meat?  Or has that been deemed "without quality" by our overlords?

What I'm getting at here is that it doesn't matter what you deem worthy.  This is supposed to be a free country where if you don't infringe on others' rights, you are free to do as you please.  If someone is high on drugs and robs a pizza place, their crime is robbing the pizza place.  Prosecute to the fullest.  Would it matter if that same person was stone sober and robbed the joint?  How about if he was drunk (the vast majority of perpetrators, by the way)?

Also, since you have the Declaration of Independence in front of you, what would the phrase "...that they are endowed with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" mean to you?

Your last few lines about "will NOT benefit common freedoms, but deteriorate domestic Tranquility and destroy the general welfare" sure seems to ring of "the common good" bullshit that's thrown around by the left.  It doesn't matter if it harms the common good, freedom is more important than what's best for the "common good".

And by the way, Rome is already burning.

Quoted: So tell me,  if drugs are legalized, what will you think or say when your own kids run down to the 7-11 for a couple hits of crack and a shot of heroin? I mean, it'd be legal, so that'd mean it's OK, right? I could argue that maybe some things are illegal for a VERY GOOD REASON.  It doesn't excuse the fact that the war on drugs is a really bad joke with no punchline,  though.  I'll agree with you on THAT part of the issue.    But would you want your kids using what would be legal if we legalized drugs? Think about the consequences of actions...not just YOUR actions, ANYBODY'S actions. It's always tough when idealism collides with reality. CJ

Probably wouldn't kill him any deader than this shit that you can buy legally. I suppose as long as it has plenty of warnings on the label, it;s all good.

Quoted: With out a doubt marijuana should be legalized.  To all the people who are admittley against using drugs.  I would put money on it that you know someone fairly well who is dedicated to their family and their jobs that use marijuana and other then that are law abiding citizens. ...

If you are fairly familiar with anyone who runs a convenience store that sells rolling papers, just for fun, ask them sometime what kind of people buy rolling papers. And they will probably tell you "all kinds"----doctors, lawyers, people who otherwise appear TOTALLY straight-laced.

... Legalizing it would take it away from the underground and make it harder for kids to get, just like alcohol or tobacco. ...

As for making it harder to get, I don't know about that. I don't remember high-school kids having much problems getting their hands on liquor, especially if it was for a party that was planned in advance. I've seen parents who bought kegs for their teenager's 16 ~ 20th birthday parties.

The main benefit that legalizing it would have is to take away the huge profits that drug gangs are currently benefiting from. Street gangs would sell lawn chairs if they could make a decent profit at it--but Wal-Mart sells lawn chairs for five bucks, and no street gang can beat that price.

Quoted: ... You seem to think the reason why people want drugs legalized is so they can use them.  There are many people who wants this war on drugs to end because it is unconstitutional. ...

If you believe in the concept of personal liberty, then the government has no business telling you what you can and can't put into your own body. The government does not own your body.

And it is plainly stupid for the government to spend your taxpayer money trying to prevent you from using a drug that you want to use. Government policy is supposed to follow "the will of the people", not the other way around.

-----

Also along that subject, all medicinal drugs should be reverted to OTC as well--no prescriptions required.
The only thing that the drug prescription law consistently does is end up keeping medicine from poor people who can't afford both a doctor visit and the medicine itself.
~

Quoted: Quoted: I find it disturbing that so many are comparing guns to narcotics in this thread.  Did you really think that through before doing it?  You are making a case for the freedoms, and have completely forgotten the articles you are comparing to each other.  Anyone here think an 8-ball is comparable to an AR?  The ultimate use of these two items are drastically different.  It's a very flawed arguement, and very dangerous for gun rights.  Anyone here want to put their gun rights at risk to ensure illegal narcotics are legalized?  This is exactly what some of you are essentially doing. Many of you are arguing that controlled substances essentially only hurt the individual who gets addicted.  So, if that's what they want to do, it's their right to have the freedom to do it.  Are you serious?  Drug addicts will commit more crime to get another fix than any other class of felon out there.  Drugs are not a victimless crime.  Drugs are a catalyst for crime.  Go head and legalize drugs and watch Rome burn.  Too many of the illegal narcotics cause uncontrollable dependency at an alarming rate.  It takes more than a day to become an alcoholic.  Heroine, Meth, Crack...  In a day, it's over.   Many of you are arguing that this "war on drugs" is a useless waste of money.  In some ways, I can agree.  I can agree there is too much time and money wasted in this endeavour, but I can hardly agree that these shortcomings alone constitute a complete 180 on the issue.  "Shit, we can't stop all the drugs from getting into the streets.  Fuck it, lets just give up.  We can call it individual freedom. Ya that's it.  That's the answer."   I suspect a much better answer is somewhere in the middle.  More border control to stop the drugs entering the country, and legalization of Marijuana.  Legalizing marijuana has enough advantages for society as a whole to not hurt the country in the long run.  I find no redeeming qualities in legalizing any of the other narcotics. Lastly, those of you who are using the Constitution of the US as part of your arguement to legalize all narcotics obviously are taking what you believe it says over what it actually represents and says.  I have a copy of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and it's ammendments on my desk.  And I quote:   We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establisht this Constitution for the United States of America. I didn't see I, me, mine, or any other pronoun of the individual.  Ultimately, the Constitution is about everyone benefiting from a common freedom.  Proposing legalization of all narcotics will NOT benefit common freedoms, but deteriorate domestic Tranquility and destroy the general welfare.  So STOP using the Constitution as part of your arguement for lunacy. I find no redeeming qualities in legalizing any of the other narcotics. Well damn, there you have it, lets keep them banned!  Government knows best!  Is there anything else you don't think has any "redeeming qualities"?  We might as well ban those too.  Are we still allowed to eat red meat?  Or has that been deemed "without quality" by our overlords? If you find the current Govt overlords so distasteful, I doubt anyone will infringe on your freedom to leave.  Red meat has redeeming qualities in abundance, Crack does not.  Faulty logic. What I'm getting at here is that it doesn't matter what you deem worthy.  This is supposed to be a free country where if you don't infringe on others' rights, you are free to do as you please.  If someone is high on drugs and robs a pizza place, their crime is robbing the pizza place.  Prosecute to the fullest.  Would it matter if that same person was stone sober and robbed the joint?  How about if he was drunk (the vast majority of perpetrators, by the way)?  What you are getting here is personal.  But I don't take it to heart.  It's what's left when your opinion on an issue is rice-paper thin.  However, I can resoundly state that my stance on this issue is more than just what I deem worthy.  Crime's have motive.  In your example, the fact that this person robbed the pizza place to obtain money to support his narcotic addiction would be relevant to both prosecution and defense.  His drug use would matter. Also, since you have the Declaration of Independence in front of you, what would the phrase "...that they are endowed with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" mean to you?  Actually, what you are quoting is from the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution of the US, and you quoted it incorrectly, proving my previous point.  The correct quote is: We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government....  Are you insinuating that the Govt should be overthrown because they made narcotics illegal, because that is what the section you were trying to quote is about...   Your last few lines about "will NOT benefit common freedoms, but deteriorate domestic Tranquility and destroy the general welfare" sure seems to ring of "the common good" bullshit that's thrown around by the left.  It doesn't matter if it harms the common good, freedom is more important than what's best for the "common good".  I can agree that the common good must be overlooked for the long-term betterment of any nation, Slavery comes to mind, but on the majority Democracy (Federal Republic's too) are based on multiple ideologies, the common good being one. And by the way, Rome is already burning.  No it's not.  Travel outside the US to some craphole for a couple of months.  It's enlightening.