I believe that gangster rap was directly responsible for the assault weapons ban. Gangster rap heavily influenced the political scene with songs like cop killa in the early 90’s. I think the anti-gun groups latched onto this phenomenon and used it to further their agenda. BUT the anti gun groups used ideas directly created with gangster rap. Such as ak’s are only for spraying, and not accurate shooting. Gangster rap created the image of the AK and Tec-9 only being used by criminals.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, interesting, berry interesting.

Not a bad hypothesis.  Soccer moms would know a lot about Gangsta Rap, their kids are the biggest consumers of the Gangsta BS.

Good theory. Probably not true. Maybe influenced the psychology of private individuals but not as a disclosed agenda af an anti-group.

I think this is complete idiotic, closed-minded, and stereo-typing thinking. That is the most rediculous thinking that I have heard of. The only thing that contributed to the ban was the bank robbery in California where they used the Assualt rifles.

and not all those "clone" action films where every criminal has an MP5, AK, Steyr AUG?

[B]"I think this is complete idiotic, closed-minded, and stereo-typing thinking. That is the most rediculous thinking that I have heard of. The only thing that contributed to the ban was the bank robbery in California where they used the Assualt rifles." [/B]

First of all, I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. Hehehe so if you are do not pay attention to this. First of all, I am talking about the federal AW ban which happened in 94. The LA bank of America shoot out occurred on Feb 28, 1997 so ir has nothing to do with the federal ban. ( [url]http://www.cnn.com/US/9702/28/shootout.update/ [/url]).


No, closed-minded thinking is when people refuse to look at different ideas. This is only a theory that’s why I used a question mark in the title of this topic.  

I think movies played a part in this, but did gun control come from westerns in the 1950’s. No it did not. BUT did occur in the 1930’s due to the first gangster craze. Gangster films, as well as real gangsters were roaming the land with automatic weaponry. This was also reflected in the gangster movies of the time. People saw on the news gangsters using guns, and this was then reinforced by the movies of the time (only multiplied exponentially). This pressure resulted in gun control.

The same thing occurred with gangster rap. The crack craze and drug gangs had just about reached their height in the early 90’s. People saw that on the news and then that idea was reinforced by the music.  

Anyway, Just a Theory.

Was drug use in the 60's and 70's a result of the music???, or was the music a result of the drug use???, hmmmmm maybe the great debate of all mankind. [whacko]


Edited for the fun of it.

[B] Was drug use in the 60's and 70's a result of the music???, or was the music a result of the drug use??? [/b]

No but you are looking at this the wrong way. To be comprable with my argument your question should be: “ Was anti-drug legislation a result of the music or a result of the actual drug use.”  To answer that I don’t know. But I think the culture of the time (music, clothing, and the actual drugs) did directly correspond to the anti-drug legislation.

[/b]

Wrong...the North Hollywood BofA robbery happened as stated above in the late 90's.

The first signs of an impending "ban" occurred in 1989 IIRC after Patrick Purdy shot a bunch of Asian kids on the grounds of a school in Stockton,CA.
He used an AK,which got a lot of negative mileage in the press.

I had heard on another board that a certain brand of pistol that might be referenced more than others in gangsta rap songs was included in Cali's "Junk gun ban" until they found out it was expensive enough that their criminals never used it and a lot of their police depts. did. Not sure of the reliability of that statement, just what I heard.


As to what 101 proof said about drug use and music, I'm in Oklahoma where everyone who is not a fundy is a a wanna-be something. I remember 93, 94ish right when Dre and Snoop were getting big, I was a 16 year old seasoned heavy-metal pothead. All us greasy longhairs noticed an EXPONENTIAL increase in those who weren't like us who suddenly began lighting up over the course of a year. By the time I graduated, My brother's class (3 years behind)it was more common than not.

Q: Why was the ban strongly supported by police?
A: While there is no reporting requirement on assault weapon incidents, [u]police across America reported that semi-automatic assault weapons had become the "weapons of choice" for drug traffickers, street gangs and paramilitary extremist groups. A 1991 survey of 835 inmates in four states by Joseph Sheley and James D. Wright found that 35% of the inmates reported owning a "military style automatic or semi-automatic rifle," and 53% of gang affiliated inmates reported owning a "military style" weapon.[/U] ATF data reveals that although [u] semi-automatic assault weapons comprise less than 1% of the privately-owned guns in America, they accounted for 8.4% of all firearms traced to crime during 1988-91.[/u] During 1986-91, 20,526 assault weapons were traced to crimes, and of those, 1,349 were specifically traced to murders in the United States and 4,031 were linked to drug traffickers. Since only about 10% of all gun crimes result in firearms traces, assault weapons were probably used in ten times as many crimes as these.


This is from hanguncontrol.org

The same role as they played in a ban on the interstate commerce of switch-blades.

You might be talking about Glock.  I saw in the San Jose Mecury News that several Ca. state legislators were demanding the banning of Glocks, because they were, according to them, unsafe and generally used by criminals.  For a while, they were scheduled to be banned.  Since then, the scheduled ban on Glocks has been reversed.  I think it's funny that the idiots almost outlawed the new sale of the handguns that many of their own officers carry.  What idiots.z

From warwolf on ak-47.net

[b]The Switchblade Menace

In 1958, after a five-year campaign by politicians and the
media, Congress enacted a ban on interstate commerce in
switchblade knives, which President Eisenhower signed into law.
Even the backers of this ban admitted that it would accomplish
little in the way of curtailing crime. They acknowledged that it
was largely symbolic, but empty symbolism wins more votes than
genuine reform. Moreover, it was politically safer for our
representatives to criminalize the actions of a few small
manufacturers and mail-order dealers, than to punish the juvenile
delinquency of the children of some of their constituents.
The real motivation of some proponents of the ban is
revealed in the Congressional Record. For a few, such as U.S.
Senator Frederick G. Payne of Maine, the motive was ethnic
prejudice. During a committee hearing Payne asked a witness,
"Isn't it true that this type of knife, switchblade knife, in its
several different forms, was developed, actually, abroad, and was
developed by the so-called scum, if you want to call it, or the
group who are always involved in crime?"
Not just ethnic anxiety, but sexual anxiety, too, seemed to
motivate some proponents of the ban. Representative Sidney R.
Yates of Illinois proclaimed, "Vicious fantasies of omnipotence,
idolatry... barbaric and sadistic atrocities, and monstrous
violations of accepted values spring from the cult of the weapon,
and the switchblade knife is included in this. Minus switchblade
knives and the distorted feeling of power they beget--power that
is swaggering, reckless, and itching to express itself in
violence--our delinquent adolescents would be shorn of one of
their most potent means of incitement to crime."
Another outspoken advocate of banning switchblades at that
time (and also of banning firearms and ammunition) was New York
State Senator Frank J. Pino from Brooklyn. In his testimony
before Congress Mr. Pino stated, "these knives are... inherently
dangerous, they have only one purpose. They are just deadly. They
are lethal weapons, and they are suited for crime, that is all
they are suited for."
The most persistent advocate of a switchblade ban was
Representative James J. Delaney of New York City, author of the
first federal anti-switchblade bill back in 1954. On April 17,
1958, he stated, "Every day our newspapers report numerous
muggings and attacks, most of them involving knives. Can we sit
by complacently and ignore the bloodshed in our streets? Doing
away with switchblades will not be a cure-all for the crime wave
sweeping the nation, but it will remove one of the favorite
weapons of our juvenile and criminal element... it was not until
about 1949 or 1950 that these things came into common usage. In
the gathering of juvenile gangs and clans, nearly every one of
them has a switchblade. It is a ritual with some of them to carry
switchblades. It is not only the boys, but I was surprised to
find that a great number of the girls carry them also." [/b]

IMO, it wasn't gangster rap that influenced the ban on "assault weapons", but the entertainment industry and I can point to one television show in particular: Miami Vice. The show glamourized Drug Lords and their use of automatic weapons. The american sheeple think they whatever they see on t.v. is fact, believing that "assault weapon" use was rampant on the streets and they were machineguns. VPC used this ignorance to fuel their anti-gun propaganda campaign.

"Assault weapons... are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully-automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons." -Josh Sugarman of the VPC

I would agree that "Miami Vice" and shows like it had some influence on gun culture in America at the time - but to get back to the original post:

Hypothetically, couldn't the passing of CCW laws in more than half of the States be attributed to a learned fear response by Middle America courtesy of the same "Media" outlets that found ratings by televising pictures of every gang member in the world brandishing a SKS?

What I am saying is just my theory and not intended towards anyone who posted.

You may be in the right state, buy not quite in the right city.  I think the real problem is a lot of people cannot separate real life from what they see on TV or listen to on their radio. I also think a lot has to do with that fact that no one ever took the time to explain the difference to them as they were growing up ( or not growing up can also be a way to look at it )

Whether or not gangster rap had any effect on the AW laws is irrelevant to me - I think ALL rap "music" SUCKS!!!!!  [puke]

according to the FBI uniform crime report. "assault weapons" account for less than 1/4 of 1 percent of the weapons used in the commision of a felony. i trust the FBI more than the ATF. also traces on automatic weapons would likely receive quicker and more scrutinous attention then RG's and the like. also according the the UCR is that a person is six times more likely to be killed by being beaten to death with the use of no weapons at all then by "assault weapons". that means that a martial arts student is six times more likely to cause death in an assault of a persons life then an automatic firearm. silly is'nt it [:)] those people who know Kung Fu are pretty scary; it should be banned; then now one will know how to punch and kick someone. [:D]haha

inmates like most US citizens do not know what exactly a "military style" weapon is. heard a gangmember brag once about his "rapid fire" .25 auto pocket pistol.



karate lib

"the problem is tyring to convince crazy people that im not crazy"

Just my $0.02, but I think Imbroglio hit the nail squarely on the head.

First, I'm no rap music afficionado, but look at the timeline of gun control.  The first major piece of legislation is the NFA of 1934, followed by the CGA of 1968.  No rap music then.  The next piece of legislation is the FOPA of 1986.  Just the beginnings of rap music (RUN-DMC) at that point, and pretty tame stuff.  Miami Vice and Hollywood are in full swing pushing the envelope with violence on the silver screen.  The 1989 import restrictions tightened things up about this time, but keep in mind, this was soon after an assination attempt on the president, so the gun control issue still appealed to quite a few.  Sara brady started pushing her bullshit too.  There was rap music, but nothing close to the gangsta rap spawned by Public Enemy, NWA, Ice-T, etc.  Even so, soon after these guys came out with their versions of gangsta rap, there were sharp public criticizims of the tone of the lyrics, and MTV (and later VH1) soon moved to pull video play on any video featuring guns, gunplay, or violent activity.  Gangsta rap got as big as it did because it sold a lot of albums, but without video support, a lot of these albums wouldn't have sold as well as they did.  I think a lot of artists toned it down to appease the MTV gods and insure the financial success of the records.  Its still out there, but not as high profile as it was.  Hollywood is still pushing the envelope on violence with bigger budgets for bigger special effects, explosions, and scenes involving gunplay.  The video games are starting to come into full swing at this point too.  So while gangsta rap is going underground (somewhat), other media outlets are playing up violence in a big way.  194 rolls around and voila' - you've got the AWB.

Gangsta rap may have played a part, but nothing near what Hollywood did.  "Assault weapons" are not really a problem, but perception is reality in politics and public relations.  The public perceived them to be a problem because the public saw them in movies and video games.  The vast majority of the public didn't listen to gangsta rap or get their perceptions about these types of guns from Ice-T.  They got it from Miami Vice and big box-office hits like Die Hard, Terminator, Commando, Rambo, etc.

my 2 cents

i grew up in california in the san fransico bay area and  graduated high school in 1989 and then went off into the military. i remember back then that rap music had alot of gangster type lyrics in it,there were groups like nwa,ice-t,too-short,whoodini,rodney-o and joe-cooly, rundmc,2-live-crew,and various up and coming artists that raped about gangster type life and life in the hood,and if i remember right the movie colors came out back then also. i went to school with and hung around quite alot of people that were in gangs mainly the bloods, and i had friends who dealt drugs. many of them had ak-47's,mac-10's,ar-15's, and various types of shot guns,and handguns. in my own experience i think that the 1994 ban had alot of influence. one is that drug dealing was becoming more and more popular for the fast cash and status symbol,gang violance was increasing such as drive by shootings and cold blooded murders,people were becoming more anti-police,(NMW had a song that was called F*#K THE POLICE)hollywood was and still is producing movies that glorified violance with assault weapons,rap music was anti police, and had lyrics which spit out alot of lawlessness,then on top of all that the attempted assasination of reagon(which did not include an assault type weapon,but fuilded the fire). i remember that in a lot of drive by shootings assault type weapons, high capacity shot guns,and high capacity semi-automatic hand guns were easier to use for the amount of bulletts one could distribute faster, so i think that public outcry,and political pressure had a lot to due with the 1994 brady bill. although i truely believe that this bill did nothing to take weapons out of criminals hands, for if one had to one could puchase a black market weapon if one did the necessary digging.i think that clinton was looking for away to make himself look good,he had alot of friends and finacial backing from groups that were against guns.personally i think that the ban went to far,it did make getting weapons a little harder for crimanals,but if one wants something they will find away to get it and alot of criminals do. i think that rap music is only one piece of the puzzle and i think that clinton capitalized on appeasing the public with the ban and not really addressing the social issues of gang violance and drug dealling. instead the ban made it harder for law abiding citizens to have legall firearms and use their rights under the 2nd ammendment. i think politics,and the views of the administration played more into the ban than anything else. for gang violance is still an issue, and drug dealling is still an issue, gang members still have weapons that they used years ago, and drug dealers still have the weapons that they used before.

My opinion coincides with Imbroglio's statement.

I've long thought that it was Miami Vice that brought the worlds' attention to semiauto firearms (handguns and rifles), large capacity magazines and drug dealers armed to the teeth because "they always carried cash."

Cop Killa was a song by Ice-T's metal side project, "Body Count."  It was NOT gangsta rap.



How many accurate AK's have you seen? [:D]



Wasn't the Tec-9 labelled as the most used gun in crime in it's own manual?

It doesn't matter though.  Congress did their own study that found that assault weapons were rarely used in crimes, but it didn't matter.

God Bless Texas

Shaggy, just as a point of order, Public Enemy were not ever Gangsta rap and don't belong being lumped in with violent acts like NWA and Ice-T.  I know, because I've met them, and was a fan throughout my misguided youth.  They were more militant and politically active than anything else, but never gangstas.

God Bless Texas

I wish I could find the back of this album. The guys all have mac-10's behind their backs.

[img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002LF6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg[/img]

Public Enemy wasn't "Gangsta" but it was violent and scary to soccer moms.

The switchblade law came about because of movies like Rebel without a Cause and other renegade teen movies.  Also, manufacturers of non-automatic knives backed the ban to get rid of some of the competition.

The assault weapon ban results from more of the TV and movies, people watch it all the time, but when it comes to letting their neighbor own one, they are scared.  Hollyweird sucks.

Start writing your senators and represenatives about resigning it, we need to build momentum, not try and do a last minute effort.  Get your shooting buddies to do it to.  What is 10 to 15 mins compared with being able to purchase new mags and put collapsible stocks and bayonet lugs back on?

Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

Ok, you graduated from high school a full 5 years before me, yet I seem to have a better memory of the 1980's...  Then again, there may be something to that. [:D]

Whodini, Run-DMC, and Rodney O and Joe Cooly are what are commonly referred to as Old School rappers.  They pre-date gangsta rap by several years, being pioneers of the Rap and Hip Hop communities.  You will find no gangster rap lyrics in anything ever done by Run-DMC, past or present.  I cannot say the same for Whodini or Rodney O and Joe Cooly, but their works during their prime were both straight hip hop.

Even Ice-T has old school non-gangsta rap hip hop roots.  Check out Breakin Two, Electric Boogaloo, and he's rapping at the end.  It's funny stuff.

2 Short, NWA, and Ice-T were indeed gangsta rappers, but gangsta rap came about much later than the other bands mentioned, in 1987/88.

God Bless Texas
Your Hip Hop Historian [:D]

[b]Public Enemy wasn't "Gangsta" but it was violent and scary to soccer moms.[/b]

Yep

[img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000024IQ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg[/img]

[b]"You will find no gangster rap lyrics in anything ever done by Run-DMC, past or present"[/B]

Oh no, what do you call this. It is from their song "the ave." I think it was from 1990(could be wrong)

was chilling on the corner with a quart in our hands
A beef broke out, at Soul Kitchen spot
It was crazy Baby Pop, someone got shot
I seen him drop - then came the cops
Sayin, "Nobody run - everybody stop"
[B]I wanted to run, cause I was carryin my gun
Darryl Mack packin mine, strapped with my nine
Everyone on the wall, that's what the cop said
Everyone complied, except Bald Dread, he said,
"Blood claat boi me nah hafa deal wit dat[/B]
Yo I'm a superstar for de world dem call 'im Darryl Mack"
I turned around and said, "Word up cop!"

OH NO!  I STAND CORRECTED!  THE HORROR!

[:D]

I guess I missed that one, since I wasn't a fan of theirs after their 80's stuff.

God Bless Texas

hehehe I have their greatist hits album.

.
.

.
Unless he had his CCW permit LOL

What????

Hell, now that I think about it, Vanilla Ice had references to a 9mm and a 12 gauge in "Ice Ice Baby."  Would that qualify for it being Gangsta Rap? [:D]

God Bless Texas

Thank you for your opinion. That's all it is and nothing more. I'm sure that no one asked you  your opininon though and it was probably better off not stated.

I have to agree that PE is not and was not Gangsta Rap.  
No way.
They were Political Rap.

"Catch that sucker who shot that gun...
...whip his monkey-ass 'til it ain't no fun..."

Translation - F@!! you boy, me no have to deal with that.

Thanks...

Well, actually, Klinton and his goons in Congress and the Senate were [b]directly[/b] responsible for the Assault Weapons Ban.  Everything else just happened to influence people's opinions/misconceptions about so called "assault weapons."

I think the media played a big part in influencing people though.  I can remember seeing the news talk about "assault weapons" while showing a person firing a full auto AK or M16.  We all know that there is a very real and powerful liberal establishment in the media that completely ignores any ideas of objective reporting.