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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:05:55 PM EDT
[#1]
The Bible itself is nothing more than a collection of important writings considered to be authoritative on doctrine in Christian Orthodoxy. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:07:00 PM EDT
[#2]
....  You're kidding, right? |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:07:15 PM EDT
[#3]
In fact, that comparison was not made at all. The comparison was between the methods Christians are using to get Bibles into China and the methods used by Neo-Nazis to get their filth into Germany. The methods are evidently very similar, if not identical. Please try to keep up, particularly if there is a chance that you are going to get upset about something. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:10:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Ahem.... From The Declaration Of Independence We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:18:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Double.
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:18:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Did they not lie? They told the Chinese that their bible were not bibles. Is this not a lie? I just dont think that is a very good Chrstian thing to do. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:19:29 PM EDT
[#7]
He despises what you stand for and just wants to argue. He's the type that attempts to invalidate your convictions by pointing out what appears to be contradictions. For instance, you could say your grandfather was a Christian in WWII Germany, and in relating a story of how he hid Jews from the Nazi's and how he told them there was no one in his basement, he would say "Soooo, he LIED to the Nazi's! THAT wasn't very CHRISTIAN of him, now WAS IT!" See, you can't be a REAL Christian and be less than truthful to the Communists, now can you? It's just word games and quite easily dismissed. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:20:04 PM EDT
[#8]
I think alot of you missed the fact that this has nothing to do with religion...
Christians are free to worship jesus or who ever else they want to they just have to do it at a place that is approved by the goverment.. secondly all books there are state approved.. it didnt matter if it was the new testiment the koran a playboy or harry potter... No state seal no passthru this checkpoint.. they are comminist not the antichrist... you jesus freaks need to get off the China is opressing my religion thing. as i remmeber correctly more people have been slaughtered in the name of christianity than any other religion so get off your high horse... Nor are these missionaries out to overtly tring to covert people, as i read the story they are trying to supply these underground churches with materials... Now if thats not legal than thats up to the chinese. Sucks to be them glad i dont live there. Bottom line is you are in their country you have to play by their rules, end of story.... |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:20:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Even David pretended that he was crazy when he was in danger of being killed by an enemy once, and Paul deliberately started a fight between the pharisees and saducees to save his neck on one occasion.... Christians in general are not supposed to lie, that's true....but there is no requirement in scripture to walk up to a government that has slaughtered countless people for the cause of the Gospel and announce your intentions to them. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:21:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Sounds quite a bit like the superstition about Muslims all lying to further their jihad, except for real. If an officer of the Chinese customs asked you whether you had any bibles in your bag, and you said "no," that would be what is called "false witness" in the ten commandments and a sin that you're liable to go to hell for. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:24:17 PM EDT
[#11]
No, no, there is no possible way that this can end well...    |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:24:19 PM EDT
[#12]
...with doctrine that is approved by the government and messages that are approved by the government.... In other words, it's the Chicom's edited version of Christianity, which is edited according to the preferences and ideas of jackasses like Chairman Mao. No thank you.
Please review items 1 and 6 of the ARFCOM code of conduct.
You do not, in fact, remember correctly. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:27:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Serious historical question - which religion has the highest body count on its' hands ? My guess is Islam or Roman Catholicism. Please correct me if I'm wrong. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:28:56 PM EDT
[#14]
You misunderstand. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" means exactly what it says. Do not lie (commit purjory) against your neighbor. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:29:19 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:29:31 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:30:29 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:30:44 PM EDT
[#18]
That depends on whom you ask and what sources you use and how far back you want to go. That's the sort of question Eric The Hun (RIP) would have done an excellent job with. What I can tell you for absolute certainty is that practically every conflict blamed on religion was really about other issues, with religion being no more than a contributing factor. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:32:12 PM EDT
[#19]
My interpretation of the bible is different then yours. Neighbor means all fellow man. You cant bear false witness to any other human. Unless of course you are going to say that my interpretaion is wrong, and I dont think you can do that. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:33:18 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:34:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Communism is not a religion... differnet numbers. now if you asked who killed more christians or communist then you could compare.. my question was in regards to body counts stricly about religion. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:34:59 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm quoting this from page 1 of this thread. If ARFCOM GD was populated with sane, rational people, this would have been the thread-ending reply. [off-topic]
Odd....I taught on that passage a few weeks ago. [/off-topic] |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:35:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Clandestine acts against tyranny, are A-OK!
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:35:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Lied?? How do you figure? By putting a different cover on a Bible? By putting a different cover on a CD? By putting a different cover on religious books? They are still books, literature, and Cds. That is not lying. That is called concealing. Even if one had to lie, to a suppressive govt., in order to spread the word of Jesus, you could look at several areas of the Bible where Christians had to operate in secret to avoid persecution. No different than modern day China |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:35:48 PM EDT
[#25]
While I don't consider the comments I quoted to be a violation of the COC, others may well be offended by terms that are as "charged" as those are and might be inclined to report you. I dismiss invalid reports all the time as a moderator, but as a general principle I would advise finding verbage that doesn't get the report button clicked in the first place when it comes to discussions that touch on religion. It's a pretty touchy subject around here and I think every topic that has even touched on religion in the last couple of weeks has had to be locked.
I'm familiar with the Crusades. I'm also familiar with the fact that there were two parties fighting in the crusades, not just one. How many people did the Japanese kill during WWII? You do know that their emporer was a living god, right?
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:36:00 PM EDT
[#26]
So your saying the crisades never happend? I wasnt there so please tell me... |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:37:04 PM EDT
[#27]
How many times do you guys have to post this silly nonsense and have it refuted, before you give it rest? The Crusades were an answer to Muslim aggression. The number of people killed in the Crusades were a very small number compared to those killed by Atheist Communism in the last centuries. The Socialists/Communists/Athiests killed far more people than any in the name of "god" so far. China (Mao Soviets) 1923-1949 3,465,000 China (KMT) 1928-1949 10,075,000 China (PRC) 1949-1987 77,277,000 U.S.S.R 1917-1987 61,911,000 Germany 1933-1945 20,946,000 Cambodia 1975-1979 2,035,000 Vietnam 1945-1987 1,670,000 Vietnam 1975-1987 1,500,000 "boat people" North Korea 1948-1987 1,563,000 Poland 1945-1948 1,585,000 Yugoslavia (Tito) 1944-1987 1,072,000 Occupied Tibet 900,000+ dead or "missing" since 1953 Democide Bloodiest dictators for the millennium. Mao Tse-tung 1923-1976 77,000,000 Joseph Stalin 1929-1953 43,000,000 Adolf Hitler 1933-1945 21,000,000 Khubilai Khan 1252-1279 19,000,000 Qing Dynasty, mainly Empress Dowager Cixi 1859-64 Tai Ping Rebellion 12,000,000 Chiang Kai-shek 1921-1948 10,000,000 Leopold II of Belgium 1885-1908 10,000,000 Genghis Khan 1215-1233 4,000,000 Vladimir Lenin 1917-1924 4,000,000 Hideki Tojo 1941-1945 4,000,000 Pol Pot 1968-1987 2,000,000 Learn some history. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:37:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Dude, Adolf Hitler was a Christian and was known to share Christian/Catholic views and he killed 6 million Jews. To argue that Christianity is NOT responsible for the most human deaths means that you dont read. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:38:54 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:40:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Survey says.....either atheism or communism, depending on whop's keeping score. Christianity - not Roman Catholicism, but Christianity, has a very, very low body count - and NONE of those should have occured....except one, of course. 
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:40:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Hitler was not a Christian. The term "Christian" is defined as "One that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ". Did Hitler follow the teachings of Jesus. Of course not. You only make yourself look silly by posting nonsense like this. If you want to debate, make meaningful debating points. Saying Hitler was a Christian is just silly. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:40:57 PM EDT
[#32]
So vietnam was a religous war? Your confusing relgion and polital cause for war... I will check out th ehwo crusade thing.. this is my first thread hearing it was a lie... i will have to check it out. and whats upo with getting called a moron.. I was taught the oposite of what you think. jsut present your idea and let others do the research... geeze you guys are touchy with this christian thing... 
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:41:11 PM EDT
[#33]
How about the Thirty Year's War (basically Protestants vs. Catholics) whose death toll wasn't exceeded in Europe until WWII? |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:42:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Firstly, the slaughter of 6 million Jews precludes someone from being a Christian. "Christian" is a term for someone who holds the beliefs and practices advocated by Jesus Christ...and liquidating the entire Jewish population of Europe doesn't even begin to come close to the teachings of Christ or His Apostles. To claim that Hitler was a "christian" is to make claims that are ignorant of the fact that the Nazi regime persecuted many Christian churches, especially those who didn't go along with the Nazi plan. If you'll look, you won't see a whole lot of Christian symbolism used by the Nazis...but their symbols have LOTS of occult influences. Louis Farakahn shares some views that are in line with Christian orthodoxy...but that doesn't make him a Christian either. (Not that Farakahn is on par with Hitler, but he helps illustrate the point.)
To attempt to blame Christianity for Hitler is just silly, bro. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:42:39 PM EDT
[#35]
I did no such thing. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:43:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Thanks for the info ! |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:43:20 PM EDT
[#37]
"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice". -Adolf Hitler Who looks silly now???? Oh, and for the record Hitler spoke of a "Positive Christianity", one where Jesus killed the Jews. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:43:48 PM EDT
[#38]
   Hitler wasn't a Christian. Please, learn some history. I get tired of DAILY seeing people who have no clue whatsoever about Christianity demand that we consider Hitler and Joel Osteen to be true-blue Christians, with no regard whatsoever for what Jesus Himself said....You will know them by their fruits'. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:44:11 PM EDT
[#39]
...anyone seriously trying to argue that Hitler was a good Christian. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:45:20 PM EDT
[#40]
...and was that strictly about religion? Did things like money or political power have ANY role in that?
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:45:34 PM EDT
[#41]
I bet you're more likely to find middle-Easterners slaughtering each other before, during, and after the Crusades and simply signing on with the Westerners to advance their faction's interests. Oh wait, that might actually require thinking on delemorte's part instead of just spouting drivel straight off Democrapic Underground. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:45:35 PM EDT
[#42]
You do. If Obama says, "I am a Conservative", does that make him one? What one "says" doesn't mean anything. What one "does" is what matters. Hitler was nor a follower of Jesus. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:45:36 PM EDT
[#43]
You do. homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html Hitler wasn't a Christian - but he was a good liar. Get this: 'You will know them by their fruits' -Jesus Christ, ~33 AD |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:46:29 PM EDT
[#44]
...which demonstrates the point quite nicely. Jesus never killed anybody. Jesus wept over Jerusalem...He didn't start stabbing people in Jerusalem. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:46:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Just because Hitler doesnt fit YOUR definition of a Christian doesnt make it true.
Dont worry though, I know what you guys are doing. If I was a Christian I wouldnt want to believe that some like Hitler was a Christain either......even though he believed in Jesus and CALLED HIMSELF A CHRISTIAN.
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:47:57 PM EDT
[#46]
that was KlubMarcus. i guess he thinks all of us went to the same school and same teachers and same churches coming up. It is impossible for someone even him self ot have wrong information and instead of helping other understand something better he would rather ritacule them and call names like a 4th grade girl... Ill check the whole crusade thing but Hitler was a christian. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:48:01 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:48:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Your ignorance of true Christianity is only surpassed by your hard-headedness. I give up. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:49:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Sorry, I should have said fought against the Jews. The fact that Hitler singled out the Jews to begin with should be your biggest clue. |
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Posted: 8/18/2008 12:51:54 PM EDT
[#50]
....That's honestly got to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard. "Christian" is not a racial identity like being a white dude. It's not a national identity like being a German. The term applies to someone who holds a certain pattern of beliefs. While there can be some debate about what constitutes orthodox Christian belief, there isn't a serious scholar on this PLANET who would argue that the industrial slaughter of Jews is within the scope of that system of belief. You can't be a murdering Christian anymore than you can be a materialistic Bhuddist.
I can call myself the President of the United States....but that doesn't mean anybody is gonna salute me, pilgrim. |
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