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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:50:54 AM EDT
[#1]
I have no experience with this but if you built it out of materials strong enough to contain the pressure of the shell, I don't see why it wouldn't work...
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:51:57 AM EDT
[#2]
heard of it but have never seen any actual reports of it
I would think you would need some momentum to set them off than merely stepping on it and pushing the primer against a "firing pin" |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:52:33 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:52:42 AM EDT
[#4]
I'm not sure that a constant pressure such as a footstep would ignore the primer.
Doesn't it have to be more of an impact? Hopefully somebody smarter then me will address this. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:53:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Sounds like the Vietcong are mixing meth. What's next, punji pits in the middle of a trailer park?
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:53:46 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:55:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Not sure the force of a foot stepping on it would be enough to fire the primer.
Maybe if you could get some Olefson primers it would work.....  ( See that, Take a few minutes to see if it is in the " Improvised Munitions Handbook" and 7 people rwly) |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:55:45 AM EDT
[#8]
I have heard of this as well. I read it from a book from a Marine in Viet Nam. He claimed they would try to get hold of shotgun shells from American bodies when possible for this purpose. A piece of bamboo approximately the same outder diameter as the hull with a nail in the bottom. The bamboo would not need to contain the explosion, but merely facilitate it. The point was for the concussion to damage the foot. I could swear he referred to them as "foot-breakers" or "ankle-breakers" or something like that.
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:56:48 AM EDT
[#9]
I have seen several "booby traps" made from 12 ga. shells... the "step on it" type... no, you are not going to step on it and set it off.
All of the ones I have seen were set up inside pipe or tubing with a cap, the cap had a hole drilled through it to allow a nail or some type of firing pin that was attached to a spring to be able to drive through the hole and detonate the shell... they were all tripwire actuated and normally aimed toward the legs along trailsides. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:57:07 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:58:43 AM EDT
[#11]
I have seen 12 gauge traps sold before. They are spring loaded though and would require a trip wire.
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:58:56 AM EDT
[#12]
There are various "noise-makers" that take a 12ga primed shell. Of course, "not to be used with live ammo".
Basically a trip-wire type device. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 7:59:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Damn dope growers.
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:01:57 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:02:17 AM EDT
[#15]
They sharpen the nail and it works with foot pressure
They also just use a film container |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:04:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Moonshiners too |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:05:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Refer to the noisemaker reference above. Would probably require modification for live ammo, and at such point in time would become huge liability issue and likely illegal. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:06:05 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:10:27 AM EDT
[#19]
It's called a 'Toe-Popper'.
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:10:56 AM EDT
[#20]
I have seen this type. The OPs original design I have to call BS on. Whats to stop the person that is stepping on it, knocking the shotgun shell over on its side and rendering it nonfunctional? A 12 gauge shotgun shell is 2 3/4" long and about an inch in dia. You're going to set this in a 1" piece of pipe, with a base that will contain a nail, and then put it on a "trail". I am going to come along and step up on the shotgun shell and push down to set it off. I just don't buy it. There are better ways. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:17:20 AM EDT
[#21]
A trap like this can easily be made using a rat trap as the striker.
I found one about 10 years ago in the National Forest while turkey hunting. It had a trip wire, but the whole mess had been there so long there was rust all over everything, and even the wood of the rat trap had started to decay. Luckily i was looking for some turkey sign on the ground and saw the damn thing. It takes a decent impact to set off a primer, that is why we can press them in and out of primer pockets and they do not go off, and if a hammer strike is weak you get a misfire. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:18:54 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:23:29 AM EDT
[#23]
It's actually in the US military improvised munitions hand book, it is quick and easy AP mine.
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:27:59 AM EDT
[#24]
http://www.defensedevices.com/shotgun-alarm-signal1.html
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:29:24 AM EDT
[#25]
most of them are up for days on end, with nothing to do but make meth, and ways to protect thier meth. btw, some of the things they do to make meth is pretty ingeinius. One method requires hooking a metal frying pan to a car battery. You hook the positive to one side and the negative to the other. You pour the mixture of crap into the frying pan and it causes it to bind. I took a class last year about meth production. It was through my fire department. It was for evidence recognition and salvage. Since we get called out to "house explosions" that turn out to be meth labs fires. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:32:08 AM EDT
[#26]
so you blow a cops foot off while they are raiding your meth lab/trailer...what is your plan now???
I bet it wont end well for the tweaker  . i own the deuce... |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 8:36:05 AM EDT
[#27]
Meth is one drug that should always be illegal. Meth heads are not just thieves they are usually crazy. Some of the stroies about meth heads killing their children out of craziness are just fucking horrible. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:15:53 PM EDT
[#28]
What happens when the no-knock with hellfires is at the wrong address, like the ones reported in here about once a week?  IBTBL |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:17:28 PM EDT
[#29]
would require a few inches past the front of the shell to allow the pressure to build behind the wad to really "fire" the shell.
But even without that, stepping on one would certainly not feel good. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:17:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Doubletap
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:17:39 PM EDT
[#31]
wasnt a Toe Popper a popular Warsaw pact mini mine? which would take off a few toes or just damage the foot, making it necessary for others to help the disabled person. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:18:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Doesn't have to be a sudden impact as much as a sharp, pin point impact (i.e. like a firing pin or a nail). That's why reloading presses don't set them off. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:18:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Without a barrel, the velocity would be nil.
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:21:58 PM EDT
[#34]
But the question is how nil. Enough to penetrate a shoe at point blank is "nil" compared to being fired from a shotgun, but penetrating a shoe is all they really need. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:23:28 PM EDT
[#35]
I see them at military gun shows in Wisconsin. Even comes with nylon trip wire and zip ties to secure. Neat little setup, but extremely nasty! They are designed to put a 12ga. blank inside. To string acrossed a trail that deer take TO YOUR GARDEN. At least that's what the sticker on the item says. It also says not to use a real shell as it is illegal and will more than likely destroy the device and cause personal injury (duh!). 
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:24:15 PM EDT
[#36]
like a cook off probably where the pellets just split open the casing like a burst. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:25:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Back in my misspent youth, I taped a 12 gauge shell to the muzzle of my air rifle. It made noise, the pellets traveled about 20 feet up, then fell like a gentle rain. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:25:47 PM EDT
[#38]
i think it's more that they're super obsessive, rather than smart. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:29:10 PM EDT
[#39]
But the point is not to spray pellets everywhere. The purpose is to have a large enough concussion to cause damage to the foot. I don't think that would be a problem with the powder charge of a shotgun shell and the brass encompassing the charge as potential shrapnel. With the foot within inches of the charge, I believe it would easily do a fair amount of damage. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:30:52 PM EDT
[#40]
with somebody wearing a steel shanked boot..I sort of doubt a shotgun shell not confined in a metal barrel would do much.. to much room for the force to not be contained. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:33:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Concussion? Might damage the hearing but it isn't going to much damage. Like I posted above, I have done it with shells taped to the muzzle of my air rifle. Yes, it is loud. But it isn't effective. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:34:21 PM EDT
[#42]
 You were a dumb kid, huh?
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:36:45 PM EDT
[#43]
The devices as posted would have a 99.9% failure rate and the casualty rate for the .1% would be close to zero.........
However it should be noted that there are two breeds of crank bakers: 1. The users who end up burning thmselves and often their kids and innocents who go through a lot of trouble to produce powdered sudafed with some other nasty chemicals. these people are dangerous by accident or direct violence due to being fucked in the head, these turds are the biggest threat to the outdoorsman /LE but luck for us they end up killing or stupidfying themselves and turn into drooling zombies quickly 2. The Mex/Rus/East Bloc/Far East crew, These people are very very dangerous they run this as a business DO NOT "get high off their own supply" and are often trained by their host countries military and often times were in fact counter drug units that decided when given the choice Plata O Plomo they opted for Plata. These people are extremely dangerous however to the avg woodsman /patrolman they go to great pains to avoid detection/ gunbatltles.... In the CONUS you would be very unlikely to encounter such a group taking offensive area denial operations as this is bad for the bottom line. But in border areas and overseas you do not want to come across these guys w/o a fireteam or two and air support Sorry for the minor hijack |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:37:03 PM EDT
[#44]
That's a good way to have Bubba for a roomie for 10 or 20 years. So are the mines. A concussion is required to set the shotgun shell off. How about this - rig a test and try it at home. Stack a pile of weights on a pointy object resting against a shotgun shell primer until there's a hundred pounds or thereabouts. Then, take the same rig and drop a brick from a foot or 18 inches. If you gut the contents first, the setup is simpler and you won't need to worry about blowing up the cat. Blowing up kitty is considered bad form. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:37:52 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:38:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Why do you say that? Just because I started early as a gun nut? And I liked to make things go BOOM? |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:40:59 PM EDT
[#47]
The threat is overstated, or else we would have members here who could report finding dozens of minefields with devices numbering in the hundreds, if not thousands.
For it to be effective, it would need the shell to be encased within a pipe, and a trigger device with a spring to drive the nail/striker against the primer. The mousetrap version makes a simple tripwire noisemaker, but wouldn't actually maim anyone, unless the shell was in a barrel of some sort. Until we get reports in from some fellow arfcommers in the field, It's safe to assume that the threat as described at the collage presentation is nothing more then jenkem. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:41:44 PM EDT
[#48]
That's an inqusitive kid. That needed more supervision sometimes. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:44:52 PM EDT
[#49]
** MODS - remove this link if this needed**
Since Fish post a picture... I guess okay to post this? I think you guys are looking at this? 
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Posted: 7/18/2008 12:45:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Americans used them in Vietnam as well, see google for the "M14 mine". |
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