So my girlfriend just got a job with Fish & Game. She is in Cordova right now and will be sent out to some other island in another week. So i took her out to the range the other day and started her off with my .22 and then gave her some low brass birdshot. She took a couple shots and then after watching me shoot the buckshot would not even try it no matter how many times i said it wouldn't hurt. So she flew out yesterday and just called me today saying F&G told her buckshot will not kill bears and they are giving her birdshot to practice and slugs to carry in the gun. This might just be me but why would you give somebody who can barely fire the gun slugs with 1 projectile coming out and most likely not even be able to hit the bear, when u could give them 00 or 000 and they would have a better chance of knocking something down. I'll admit i know shit about killing bears but how big does a bear have to be that it cannot be taken down by buckshot?

Sounds like she is not qualified for her job.

Slugs, 30-06, 300 win mag, 458 Nitro, 45-70 Government, solid brass bullets for any

I'll admit i know shit about killing bears but how big does a bear have to be that it cannot be taken down by buckshot?

Ummm...........Alaska big?

Q: Why would a person take a job with the AK F&G if they couldnt handle the tools of the job?



Just askin...................

Use a Super Soaker filled with honey..

Works everytime.

Never been around bears, but I've seen many whitetail deer take a 1oz slug(s) at close ranges and keep on trucking for quite a while.

Take that for what its worth.  

3" Sabot Slugs, rifled barrel for the win.

Preferably "copper solid" or "supreme partition" slugs.

Buckshot on an angry bear will get you killed.

Make sure she does not have a sling on the rifle either and just plain iron sights.  

Quoted: I'll admit i know shit about killing bears but how big does a bear have to be that it cannot be taken down by buckshot? Ummm...........Alaska big? Q: Why would a person take a job with the AK F&G if they couldnt handle the tools of the job? Just askin...................

She is a marine biologist. She just started working there about a month and a half ago, She normally sits behind a desk but they offered her a field position to go out and do tests on fish for $20something an hour.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vvkloC-Ac

Slug. Definitely. Buckshot is not a good penetrator.

Quoted: Sounds like she is not qualified for her job.

+1

A lever gun in .45-70 would be a far better choice.  Express iron sights.

Buckshot lacks penetration.  And a lot of slugs are only slightly better on tough bear.  

I jut saw a thing on the news this morning about some guys hunting down a wounded bear in Oregon. Despite having a "large caliber handgun" and shooting the bear several times, it still attacked one of them. His buddy was able to walk up and put his "large caliber handgun" to the bear's head and finally kill it whilst it munched on the first guy.

The moral of the story is: it's not neccessarily the caliber weapon you use, but where your shots are placed. Bear in mind, (pun intended), that this bear was just a black bear....not a Grizz or Kodiak.

Its not a matter of the size of the animal.  Its a matter of the thinkness of its chest plate and skull.

I've never been impressed with buckshot even on Deer. Definately wouldnt use it for bear.

Quoted: A lever gun in .45-70 would be a far better choice.  Express iron sights. Buckshot lacks penetration.  And a lot of slugs are only slightly better on tough bear.

Yeah.....what he said.

Slugs is your answer.  Or at least a 44 mag for backup.  300 Winmag is my weapon of choice. WITH A 44mag BACKUP AT ALL TIMES.  They can out run, swim and climb any man.  
Buckshot=pissed off bear.

I would rather have buckshot and hit him with a couple then shoot slugs and not hit him at all. As far as i know they do not get to choose their guns. its just what the state gives them.

A lever gun in .45-70 or an AR in .50 Beowulf or .458 SOCOM.




ETA: To answer your question, I'd take a slug.

Quoted: Sounds like she is not qualified for her job.

Sure she is, its a Government Job.

IBTPOGOSDE
In Before the Pics of Gf or she doesnt exist

Quoted:
.

Buckshot on an angry bear will get you killed.



And just how many bears have you shot let alone seen?

Quoted: I would rather have buckshot and hit him with a couple then shoot slugs and not hit him at all. As far as i know they do not get to choose their guns. its just what the state gives them.

You just make him more pissed of if you hit him and wound him with buckshot.

Who said buckshot?

You must never have shot a slug before!

Slug ftw!

Slugs

Quoted: I would rather have buckshot and hit him with a couple then shoot slugs and not hit him at all. As far as i know they do not get to choose their guns. its just what the state gives them.

No you wouldn't a wounded bear is something you never want to deal with .

Quoted: Slugs

Quoted: Quoted: I would rather have buckshot and hit him with a couple then shoot slugs and not hit him at all. As far as i know they do not get to choose their guns. its just what the state gives them. No you wouldn't a wounded bear is something you never want to deal with .

Especialy one with a guitar in his hands.

12g slugs solve most of life's problems.

I wouldn't recommend the tactics that were employed, but talk about a MASSIVE ADRENALINE DUMP!!!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw

'nother one:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc&feature=related

I knew an Alaskan bush pilot who would come and drink at my favorite bar in Seattle from time to time.  He kept a Rem 1100 stoked with 1 oz slugs for just such occasions.  Said if a half pound of lead delivered in three seconds wouldn't stop a griz, nothing would.

DN

Slugs or largebore rifle.

Quoted: Good luck to her.

You have a lot of posts.

She probably ought to practice up with the slugs, whether she wants to or not.

Quoted: www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vvkloC-Ac

Nice.  Did you see the one poop @ 1:11 into the video?

BTW this is what happened to the videographers:

“On October 6, 2003, Treadwell and Huguenard's bodies were discovered by Willy Fulton, the Kodiak air taxi pilot who had arrived at their campsite to pick them up. Treadwell's head, partial backbone, and left forearm/hand still wearing his wrist watch were recovered at the scene. Huguenard's partial remains were found near the encampment, somewhat buried in a mound of twigs and dirt. A large, male grizzly (tagged Bear 141) protecting the campsite was killed by park rangers while they attempted to retrieve the bodies. A second adolescent bear was killed a short time later after it charged the park rangers. A necropsy showed that the first animal had consumed parts of the couple's remains. It is not clear from any evidence or the audio recording if either of these two bears killed the couple. In the 85-year history of Katmai National Park, this was the first incident of a person being killed by a bear”

.50 Beowulf.

slugs!

I would also agree that a 45/70 lever gun would be perfect. My personal choice would be an AR in .50 or .458.

Quoted: This might just be me but why would you give somebody who can barely fire the gun slugs with 1 projectile coming out and most likely not even be able to hit the bear, when u could give them 00 or 000 and they would have a better chance of knocking something down.

If she is far enough away for the buckshot to spread out enough to give buckshot a better chance of hitting then...

1. the piece that hits the bear won't have much velocity

2. it is anyone's guess what part of the bear the buckshot will hit

3. the bear probably isnt a threat at that distance and she shouldnt shoot (I know, a bear can run 1,000,000 miles an hour, spare me)

Tell her to stay in the truck.

Quoted: Is a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem, 444, 45-70 (with a brake) an option? If not, comp the damned 12ga. No matter what it costs, she NEEDS some trigger time (and confidence in the gun & her ability to use it).

They only supply you with a shotgun. She called me this morning and said they are going to give her a bunch of birdshot and slugs to practice with. I have been trying to get her to go to the range with me for over 3 years now and she finally went last sunday. She got maybe half a dozen shot in with the birdshot and it almost knocked her on her ass. The guns next to us kept looking at me like i was some asshole making a youtube video. I couldent have given her any smaller of a round for the 12ga (i dont have a 20ga)

Quoted: I would rather have buckshot and hit him with a couple then shoot slugs and not hit him at all. As far as i know they do not get to choose their guns. its just what the state gives them.

This just reinforces your earlier post, and I reference your first post:

"I'll admit i know shit about killing bears"
ETA:  Not trying to be a smartass in the above or anything, but don't use buckshot please.

Quoted: I would rather have buckshot and hit him with a couple then shoot slugs and not hit him at all. As far as i know they do not get to choose their guns. its just what the state gives them.

look at the stats...fatalities go right through the roof when you only injure the bear and dont kill it with your first shot... those fat fuckers can really move.. Buckshot will just make it rip your face off....

Hey,

Read this:

www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=153604

Ellis immediately contacts Allen Gilliland, the Park Service pilot, to get the Park Service Cessna 206 floatplane ready. Then Ellis touches base with the state troopers, as well as the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. He relays a message through Andrew Airways, asking Fulton to wait where he is. Though it's Sunday afternoon and offices are closed, Ellis is able to make contact with both agencies. He also calls ranger Derek Dalrymple and tells him to hustle in. The rangers grab first aid gear and two Remington Model 870 pump shotguns -- preferred for their sure, nonjamming actions -- and boxes of rifled slugs. Ellis is wearing his .40-caliber Smith & Wesson service pistol. There's a strict protocol to be followed. Ellis is medic and operations commander of the rescue effort. With acting park superintendent Joe Fowler out of town, chief back-country ranger Missy Epping assumes the formal role as incident commander. She'll remain in King Salmon to supervise communication, pass the word up the chain of command, and get the paperwork moving. Unlike Ellis, who is new to Katmai, Epping has a personal stake in all this. She's known Treadwell for years and considers him a friend.

The Cessna is in the air less than an hour after Ellis takes the initial call. Ellis says, "At this point we were on a rescue mission, not knowing if people were dead or alive." On the other hand, Gilliland, planning for the worst, has brought along a couple of body bags from the King Salmon Police Department.

The two men accompanying Ellis, though selected by circumstance, might have been hand-picked for what lies ahead. Gilliland is more than just a pilot. He's an avid and skilled hunter who knows the country -- as well as a certified firearms instructor. Before he became a Park Service pilot, he was a cop in King Salmon for 16 years. Dalrymple, though a seasonal ranger, has been involved in investigating three previous bear-mauling incidents in the Lower 48. He is, as Gilliland later says, "very experienced -- a steady guy to have around."

Eighty miles away in Kodiak, state troopers Chris Hill and Allan Jones are airborne. The weather between King Salmon and Kaflia is getting iffy, closing down. Another fast-moving coastal storm is forecast, which may force the Park Service plane to turn back. The troopers are in radio contact with them; if everyone makes it, they'll rendezvous after landing at upper Kaflia Lake.

The Park Service plane runs into skeins of fog and rain, ceilings below 300 feet. Gilliland isn't sure they can make it in. Fulton tells them they damn well better. Someone may be alive, and he's not leaving. With him playing the role of air controller, the Park Service plane makes it through the weather and taxis down the lake. They confer with Fulton, who by now has been waiting for nearly three hours, alone in the world of unspoken fears, unable to help or do anything for his friends. He jumps in the 206, and they taxi the half mile east toward the outlet stream and the knoll. As they coast toward shore, Gilliland points out a bear on the hill, standing by one of the tents.

Ellis recalls, "We got out of the plane, guns ready. We were in a combat-ready situation, yelling for the people." The shouting is also to alert any bears in the area and drive them away. After tying up the plane, they immediately begin to move forward, hands clenched around weapons, still calling out for Treadwell and Huguenard. Ellis, Dalrymple, and Gilliland thread single file along the steep, narrow trail rising through the alders. Fulton, "amped up" as he says, clambers ahead of them, unarmed, and has to be reminded more than once to slow down. They break into the open below the crown of the knoll and pause, spreading out so that they can all fire at once if necessary. At Gilliland's urging, they decide to wait for Hill and Jones, who are just landing. Because of a lack of space in the tiny bay and overhanging alders everywhere else, the troopers will have to moor 200 yards down the shore and muscle their way along the bank through heavy brush. Gilliland suggests the troopers might have a large-caliber rifle, and the extra firepower could make a difference. Tense and dry-mouthed, standing in the cold deluge of rain, the four men remain facing uphill toward the crest of the grass-crowned knoll, where they last saw the bear. Off to their right is a marshy, open swale; ahead, a curtain of 8-foot alder brush and chest-high grass that restricts visibility to a few arm lengths. The bear trails that snake through the growth will require them, in places, to bend at the waist.

Gilliland, the pilot, channels his jitters into his eyes, scanning the brush in all directions. The threat, as it turns out, comes from the rear.

"Bear!" he shouts. It's less than 20 feet away, head low, moving silently toward them, its outline blurred by the alders. All four men yell repeatedly, throwing all their pent-up emotion into it, trying to haze the big male away. Instead of retreating -- as almost any bear would, from a tightly packed, aggressive, loud group of humans -- it stares straight at them and steps forward. In his official Incident Report, Ellis will write, "I perceived the bear was well aware of our presence and was stalking us. I believe that."

Gilliland concurs. "We were between the bear and its carcass, but it didn't charge us to defend it like most bears would do. It had circled around us and was coming quietly from the rear."

Fulton adds, "He had that same look in his eye. I think he meant to kill all of us."

The first movement toward them is enough of a signal to the men, whose nerves are stretched like piano wire. Ellis says, "We didn't confer. We all just started shooting." Fulton, who is between the men and the bear, finds himself literally in the crossfire.

"I just remember gun barrels swinging toward me," he says. With the bear a dozen feet away, he dives to the ground and the fusillade explodes overhead.

A half-ton brown bear, as experienced hunters know, can be almost impossible to stop, especially worked up, coming straight in. There are tales of magnum-caliber rounds -- slugs damn near the size of a thumb -- deflecting off the thick, sloped forehead, and charging animals absorbing incredible punishment, dead on their feet but still coming. Gilliland says he never saw one go down once and stay down. But the barrage unleashed by the rangers is staggering: five rounds each of one-ounce rifled shotgun slugs from Dalrymple and Gilliland, and 11 soft points from Ellis' .40 caliber semiautomatic handgun -- 19 shots in under 15 seconds, the booming crash of shotguns overlaid with the sharp, rapid crack of pistol fire.

Troopers Jones and Hill are just tying off their plane when they hear the volley. "I thought it was some sort of fancy multiple-report cracker shell the Park Service guys had," recalls Jones, referring to the shotgun-fired noisemakers often used to scare off aggressive bears. "It was a continuous series of shots, quite a racket."

Gilliland's report reads, "I fired five rounds ... with one hit to the head below the eye and four hits to the neck and shoulder." In retrospect, Gilliland feels his first shot killed the bear instantly. But given his experience and the extreme close range, he didn't take chances.

Ranger Dalrymple's version is more laconic: "I shot until the threat was stopped."

The big bear drops in his tracks, twitches, sighs out one last breath, and is dead. The men stand stunned in the rain, wrapped in a cloud of acrid powder smoke, their ears ringing and their breath steaming into the air. They're alive. Ellis paces off the distance separating him and the bear: 12 feet. Gilliland says later, "If it was an all-out charge, he would have taken down one of us."

Pilot Willy Fulton is back on his feet. "I want to look that bear in the eyes," he says. He studies the blood-spattered face, the small, rapidly glazing pupils, and says he's sure it's the same bear that chased him to the plane, the same one he saw on the knoll. The four men continue the last 30 yards to the campsite, no less on edge. Below, the troopers are in sight, making their way through the brush along the lakeshore.

The tents are tucked back in the alders, both crushed down but intact; either a bear has walked over them or someone has fallen against them, but the fabric's neither ripped up nor bloody. In front of the sleeping tent is a large mound of mud, grass and sticks. Several metal bear-resistant food containers are scattered on the north side of the camp in some disarray, but sealed and unmarked by claws or teeth. However, it's the mound in front of the first tent, where the bear had stood, that captures the would-be rescuers' attention. There in the muck is what lead ranger Ellis later calls, his voice tight, "fresh flesh" -- fingers and an arm protruding from the pile.

There is also a chunk of organ Gilliland believes is a kidney. Digging into the bear's cache will reveal further horror. At least one person is gone, but there's still the possibility of a survivor.

While Gilliland goes down to the lake to meet troopers Hill and Jones, Fulton and Ellis explore the tents. Dalrymple stands guard with his shotgun. Since both tents are flattened, Ellis decides the quickest way in is to slash the fabric with his knife. Someone could still be inside, unconscious and torn up, but alive. But they find only clothing and camping and camera gear, most of it stowed neatly. Food in small Ziploc bags, ready to be eaten, as if lunch had been interrupted. Sleeping tent unzipped. Gear tent zipped shut.

By this time, Jones and Hill are on the scene. With unmistakable evidence of at least one fatality, the investigation is officially handed over to the Alaska state troopers. Hill is the officer in charge. The troopers brief everyone on crime scene protocol -- the same rules apply here -- and begin documenting the area. Hill takes a couple of minutes of shaky videotape of the wreckage. Ellis and Dalrymple backtrack to the Park Service plane to bring up notebooks and cameras as well. Meanwhile, Gilliland, ever vigilant, spots a bear -- an enormous dark male drifting silently up the same trail he and the troopers have just used. Vision screened by the brush and grass, Gilliland doesn't see it until it's practically on top of them. The animal seems equally unaware -- just traveling the same trail it has for years, every step locked in memory. This guy is bigger than the last one. Just before denning, his muscular frame sheathed in fat, he's at his maximum weight, maybe 1,200 pounds. Bear! Gilliland shouts.

Jangled as everyone's nerves are, it's a miracle no one shoots. Fulton, Gilliland and the troopers shout and wave. The bear seems nonplussed by the commotion. He considers briefly and shifts into a lumbering lope, off down the hill -- leaving, but with his dignity intact. Just another Katmai bear. Gilliland shouts a heads-up to Ellis and Dalrymple. They stand on the Cessna's floats and watch the bear stroll off to the west, then walk up the hill to join the others. For a time, everyone is busy with shooting photos and jotting notes, freezing the scene in time. Ellis asks if someone should do a perimeter check. Gilliland volunteers. He backtracks to where the dead bear lies in the alders. Skirting the edge of the knoll, weaving on a search pattern through the brush he's a stone's toss from the others, yet totally cut off.

Gilliland is about halfway around his circle when he finds what's left of Timothy Treadwell -- a head missing most of its scalp; part of a shoulder, some connecting tissue, and two forearms. The face, recognizable and uncrushed, is caught in a grimace. Fulton accompanies Hill down to photograph and collect the remains. Washed by the steady rain, everything is surprisingly bloodless. The wrists and face are pale, like wax. While they're working, Gilliland hears a bear popping its jaws, a clear signal of stress and possible aggression. The animal is close, but the brush is too thick to see anything. Fulton and Hill make their way up the knoll with the body bag, and Gilliland, despite the bear, continues his circling of the knoll. He finds nothing more and returns to the camp.

The others, excavating the cache, have discovered another head with face intact -- Amie seems peacefully asleep -- as well as some flesh-stripped bones, miscellaneous scraps, and portions of a torso.

Describing the remains, Ellis sounds like he's struggling for the right words, something to mitigate the horror. "It was way past the initial stages," he tells me. "One or more bears had time to eat most of two bodies and cache the remains. There was no clothing attached to any part. There wasn't much left of anything. We could not tell male from female." When I ask for more detail, he repeats, "We could not tell male from female." Then he says, after a pause, "One part had a watch on it."

Four men break camp and collect Timothy and Amie's gear. Each makes several trips down the now-familiar bear trail to the lake. Meanwhile, Gilliland taxis Fulton back to his plane at the other end of the lake. His Beaver will carry the remains and gear to Kodiak, where the troopers will continue the investigation. (The body bags are so light -- 40 pounds at the most between them -- that the medical examiner meeting the plane will ask for the rest.)

While Fulton is warming up his plane, Gilliland taxis back.

As he's hiking up the knoll one last time, he hears trooper Hill yell, Bear! Gilliland can see it moving in the brush, circling from the right toward Ellis and Hill, who are to his left. Dalrymple and Jones are to the right and behind, standing by the pile of gear on the lake shore. About 30 feet separates the three men in front and the bear. It's a much smaller animal, probably a 3-year-old -- the kind of bear that most often gets in trouble with people.

Driven off by their mothers and on their own for the first time, some are timid and uncertain; others curious and apparently eager for company; a few aggressive, testing the boundaries, seeing how far they can push things. Teenagers, in other words. There's nothing abnormal about the bear's approach, but its timing couldn't be worse. The men have all had enough -- all of them tired and raw-nerved. Still, they hold off. Everyone waves and yells the by-now-familiar mantra, their voices low and forceful: Hey, bear! Ahhh! Get outta here!

Vision obscured by a clump of alder, Gilliland circles to his right. He yells to the others that he's going to take a warning shot. There is little reaction from the bear, which continues closing the distance between itself and Ellis -- then turns to go, but circles back, ears forward and staring. It's far too persistent -- either overly curious or aggressive That's it. Ellis shouts for Gilliland to take a shot if he has one. Gilliland replies that he doesn't. The bear moves into a window in the brush, still closing the distance, and Hill and Ellis open fire with their slug-loaded 12-gauge pump guns -- once each. The bear turns, giving Gilliland a momentary opening. He shoots twice. The bear falls and struggles to get up. Gilliland moves in and makes a killing shot to the base of the skull. Four dead now -- two people, two bears. No one takes comfort in the grim mathematical symmetry.


/end

These are Rangers, up in Alaska, shooting real bears.

Kevin "Slugs."

Does she have to use the issued shotgun?

If not, I would buy a .50 or .458 AR15 in a heartbeat.  Hell, you could write it off on your taxes!

Quoted: Quoted: Is a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem, 444, 45-70 (with a brake) an option? If not, comp the damned 12ga. No matter what it costs, she NEEDS some trigger time (and confidence in the gun & her ability to use it). They only supply you with a shotgun. She called me this morning and said they are going to give her a bunch of birdshot and slugs to practice with. I have been trying to get her to go to the range with me for over 3 years now and she finally went last sunday. She got maybe half a dozen shot in with the birdshot and it almost knocked her on her ass. The guns next to us kept looking at me like i was some asshole making a youtube video. I couldent have given her any smaller of a round for the 12ga (i dont have a 20ga)

Get her one of those Knoxx cop stocks, apparently you can shoot magnum slugs one handed with one.    

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem, 444, 45-70 (with a brake) an option? If not, comp the damned 12ga. No matter what it costs, she NEEDS some trigger time (and confidence in the gun & her ability to use it). They only supply you with a shotgun. She called me this morning and said they are going to give her a bunch of birdshot and slugs to practice with. I have been trying to get her to go to the range with me for over 3 years now and she finally went last sunday. She got maybe half a dozen shot in with the birdshot and it almost knocked her on her ass. The guns next to us kept looking at me like i was some asshole making a youtube video. I couldent have given her any smaller of a round for the 12ga (i dont have a 20ga) Get her one of those Knoxx cop stocks, apparently you can shoot magnum slugs one handed with one.

Has anyone ever tested one of these first hand?  I seen them in a cabela's catalog and they advertise a huge reduction in felt recoil.  I didn't even think of this for her, but, assuming it works, might be just the answer.

Its a state issued gun. I have dont know what kind or what it has. most likely its just a plain old 870. She has only fired a gun once or twice before i took her and that was probably 10-15 years ago. I finally got her to shoot a air rifle about a week ago and then the trip to the range.

Slugs