I am looking into getting me a high powered pistol.  Right now I don't care what caliber it is as long as it is at least a 9mm.  I want something in a medium to full frame.  No compact pistols.  I have been looking around and been doing a little reading.  My question is, Do I want a single action, single/double action, or double action?  I understand what each one is, but what is better and why.  I do not have a lot of pistol experience.  I have had much more rifle time than pistol time.  comments or suggestions would be helpful.  It will probably be used for concealed carry if I ever get a permit, but for now it would be a fun gun.   Thanks

HS2000 and i've already typed "why" too many times to do it anymore.

Go to

[url]www.hs2000talk.com[/url] and let them tell you.
Oh yeah. If you want a "high powered pistol". may I reccomend Thompson/Center arms.

Repeat after me:

"I want a 1911"

Get a Springfeild or a Kimber.  

DO NOT get a 1911.The only reason they are so popular is becasue it's all the reactionary American shooting public knows.
If they were as good as they claim, every millitary and police force would be using them.

"High Powered" + "Pistol" = Glock Model 20 10mm.

And that's all that I have to say about that...

Umm... then why was it the US Military's side arm for 80 years?  Mine's as reliable as heck, and will hit anything I shoot it at.  Ain't no reason to go with anything else, now is there?

Amen brother. Amen.
My favorite pistol on the planet. I own one with 7 FML Full Caps.
Outclasses everyother hand fired arm ever divised-
But you gotta admit- It's a bit much for many shooters.

How long was the 03 Springfield in US Service?
Does that make it the best, most viable weapon in the modern age?

Sure, why not?

There's nothing your pistol does that mine doesn't.  Unless you can get yours to cook dinner and clean the dishes!

I'd recommend, in order:

1. H&K USP -- in .40S&W or .45ACP.
2. M1911 variant -- in .45ACP by Kimber or Springfield
3. Glock 22 or 23 (.40S&W) or 21 or 30 (.45ACP)

Glocks are nice because every trigger pull is always the same. Although it's not technically a DAO (double action only), most would classify it as such. They're also reliable and relatively indestructable.

1911's are great guns. Single action only. Same trigger pull every time. But they can get finicky over ammo. But it's a design that's withstood the test of time.

USP's are my personal favorite. Technically a DA/SA pistol (like most what are traditionally called DA autos). However, as far as I know, it's the only one that can be locked and cocked like a 1911. It's indestructability and reliability are the stuff of legends.

I recently read that .40S&W is the most common round issued to state police agencies. The nine's primary advantage used to be high magazine capacity. Since the ban on hi-caps, that avantage is gone so I'd stay away from it. More power from the .40 & .45. The .40 allows you to go to the max allowable capacity (10 rounds) while 10 round 45's can get unwieldy.

Most important. Make sure whatever pistol you choose (a) fits your hand and (b) reasonably suits your natural point of aim. No use in getting a great pistol if it's just too big (or small) or if you have to contort your wrist to get it to point where you want it.

I love 1911's particularly Kimbers, however because you are new to handguns, all of the safeties and stuff on SA's you would be hard to get used too.

Buy DA/SA or DAO as a first gun

If money is no object, get a Sig p229

Beautiful gun! [:)]
Great round! [:)]
Love to shoot it! [:)]

Hate to shop for ammo!  [:(]

If your 1911 has 16 rounds of 600+ FPE, i'll kiss your ass.

Glock 20. What the 1911 Wishes it could be....

well,  _I_ don't need 16 rounds.  If you do, consider it a handicap.

Carrots, how easy is it for you to find full power 10mm loads in FL?  They're scarce around here in anything but self defence specific ammo.  The only stuff I can find in decent quantities is the 10mm FBI loads, which are balistically equivalent to the .40S&W and are still pretty scarce.  Eric the ammoman doesn't have much of a selection either.

God Bless Texas

Not to 1911 bash, but you do notice that you said "was" right?  Of course, I'm sure the reason the military went with a 9mm pistol was because it was easier to provide ammunition for, since 9mm is pretty ubiquitous, but still.  I have nothing against the .45ACP, but it may be a bit intimidating for a beginner.

I personally would get the HS200 in .40S&W if you're looking to get a pistol on a budget, but starting with a 9mm might not be a bad idea.  Their .40S&W is not as proven as their 9mm, but I'd be willing to bet that it would not be a bad pistol given their reputation so far.

God Bless Texas

Well, "I don't need 8 rounds" and that's why I carry a revolver-

You still can't compare your 1911 to a Glock 20.

Didn't the military go with the M9, so they could use standardized NATO 9mm ammo?  Some military, lots of police and law enforcement agencies still use the 1911.  

So if I got a 10mm barrel and slide, and fed the SAME ammo you use, with the same accuracy and reliability, but get a few less rounds per mag, you Glock is still better than my 1911?  

Texas- I handload.

Georgia Ammo loads a Full House 10MM load for those who don't handload.

RCBD has an 80gr specialty 10MM that generates 1000+ FPE per swat.

The 10MM wasn't embraced by the American shooting public because they choose to cling to the arcane .45ACP, just as they cling to the single action, single stack, 1911- claiming the "trigger" as the sole reason they selected the gun...

Or maybe intangiables like "Well, it just fits my hand better"..

My favorite is calling the design "Proven"..
The easiest way to see how flawed a design is, is look in a brownells catalog, and see how many "improvment parts" or "upgrade parts" are offered.

From what I understand, it was a decision (pronounced "mistake") made to appease NATO -- since they used 9mm's. The .45ACP was developed primarily because the .38SPL rounds being used by the Army were insufficient at stopping bad guys. Along comes the .45 and problem solved. The 9mm, on the other hand, was developed to mimic the ballistics of the .38SPL in an autoloader. So as far as I'm concerned, the 9mm was a step backward for the US Military that had [b]nothing[/b] to do with how good the sidearm was. You all [b]do[/b] notice that we haven't seen anyone recommending the 1911's replacement?

My dad owned strictly 1911's when I was growing up-

I personally have built 3 1911's (My first when I was 17 years old)- and I will be building a 1911 in 460 Rowland once I get up the $$$...

I have shot more 1911's than I can count since I was a little kid-

In no way shape or form is the 1911 design nearly as reliable as the Glock design. Period.
My Glock can't be killed.

Get a damn feed ramp and call me later.

I agree PY. It was indeed a step backward. I hate the 9MM for anythig other than a pocket gun, or a play toy.

Well, my gun goes BANG every time I squeeze the trigger, with ANY ammo I can get.  How much more 'reliable' can it be?

As long as a pistol does go BANG every time, and the user can HIT what he shoots at, it don't matter what he's got.  It ain't 'BETTER' than anyone else's that can do the same darn thing.  End of arguement.  

You like Glock, I like 1911.  Mine ain't better than yours, yours ain't better than mine.  

I'll throw my Glock in the Mud, in the water, in the ocean, in the sand, in the freezer, feed it any ammo, and it'll crack when I squeze the trigger.
You just can't do that with a 1911.
A 1911 is a "Best case scenario" weapon.

BTW, a friend had a Glock 23 in .40.  Couldnt' get through a mag without jamming.  All factory loads, any kind, and factory mags.  Two different bbls (one stock, and one ported)

He sold it and got a 1911

hehehe

R-O-T-F-L-M-A-O

It's getting to the point where it looks like some of you guys are going to have to meet on the field of honor and settle this thing.

Let's be serious here. We each have our preferences. I love my USPs. Beer Slayer thinks they're "but ugly" and recommends a Walther. Carrots loves his Glock 20. AR15Fencer loves his 1911's. Guess what; they're all good guns. In fact, I'm willing to bet that for the most part, they're better guns than we are shooters (i.e., the limiting factor in ANY of these guns isn't hardware but rather the guy holding them). Quite honestly, I wouldn't want to get hit by ANY of them. Others may think differently, I suppose.

Guardian started this post by asking for advice. I think he (sexist assumption) can see that we're all staunch advocates of one thing or another. So, going back on point, Guardian, if you get something that suits you for practical, physical, economical, ballistic, [add your criteria] reasons, you'll end up being just as much an advocate as the rest of us loonies.

Oh shut up [:p]

BTW- Did you ever get a Valtro?

Nope.
I'm going to get someone
to build me a 9X23 Glock**.[;)]
**Just a joke
Inference being the
tossing out a G20
stock barrel.


But a better argument,
other than which one will always go bang,
is which one will go bang
over the long haul without needing to
replace
worn out springs, slide stops, slides
or other
parts.
Say at least 10,000 rounds.

Get a .45ACP  1911 type  You won't regret it.

Or go to the gun shops, and get the gun that fits you.  If you have the opportunity to shoot a few first, that is recommended.

Police trade ins are a good value if money is an issue.

Avoid the really cheap, sub $200.oo guns

The Beretta 92's are very good, and the "pre-bans" can be had with 15 rd mags.

Definetly consider tritium nightsights.  They are worth it when you consider that nighttime is when most of the bad guys come out to play

I AGREE WITH THIS COMPLETELY!!

Fencer, you owe me a new keyboard. I just sprayed coke all over this one. LMAO[:D]

I agree with fencer, why go for quantity when you can have quality.  I will carry my springfield and put it up against any other gun, even the plastic ones.  I carry an 8 rnd mag with one in the tube.  This can take out any hostile threat.  I keep my loaded with Hornady 185 factory XTCs.

Yeah this is coming from a guy who baught a charles daly and thought he could "CUSTOMIZE" it. LOL BTW the TRUTH about why the military dropped the 1911 is because women couldnt handle the recoil. And i know of many LE agencies that carry 1911's single and double stack. But for a newbie in handgunning Get a GLOCK 17. Its simple accurate reliable and has alot of hi-caps out there for it. Later on Get a Kimber or springfield 1911.

Er, the frame and slide are fine. That's all I used.
IAI match BBL, McCormick internals... You apparently didn't get the point.
(BTW- Go read my other reply- I have 3 others I built and fitted from Caspian kits- dumbass)
Good little gun for the money, and fun project.

Aw, man, tell me you guys did NOT go there...!

Seriously, let me offer some advice as someone who has carried M1911, M1991, HK USP45, HK Mk23 SOCOM, and G19...

My current carry piece is the M1991A1 Stainless.  I like the fitment of the grip into my left paw, the location of the controls (RIGHT under my fingertips!) and the ease of finding parts.  Also, the M1991/1911 is remarkably easy to tune, lends itself well to experts and novices, men and women.  And, if you are like me (square paws and stubby fingers) you should be VERY comfortable holding it...

If you like the double stack and can keep a good grip on the thing, I recommed the USP45 or (if you can find it) the Mk23 SOCOM.  Both are OUTSTANDING pistols, I just don't feel right trying to hold onto the thing with my shortish fingers.  However, I do appreciate the accuracy and reliability of the HK pistols.

Glock?  No thanks.  It takes a "New York" trigger to begin to be acceptable, and good luck finding the metal-lined mags.  If you don't have the metal liners, you will have to pull the mag out by hand.  The all-plastic mag bodies tend to bulge under the stress of being loaded, and don't always recover enough to fall out when you hit the release on an empty mag.

All three pistols are otherwise utterly reliable in my experience.  I have even taken them under water and fired them (making sure they were fully flooded!) and watched them cycle.  I still haven't figured the flight and terminal ballistics of the .45ACP 230grain ball ammo under water, but it is on my list of things to accomplish.  I see no reason why any quality .45 would not make a decent close-range shark gun...

The number of "improvement" parts available for a design does not necessarily point up any raw defects in a design, but will also attest to the popularity of the design.  Also, the 1911 dates all the way back to the initial JM Browning design in 1903, and the HK and Glock date only to the 1980's.  Of course, there are improvements made over an 90-year lifespan, but note that it took 80 years for a major revision of the design (M1991.)  Even then, the only real change was the addition of an automatic safety and the change in material and treatment processes used on some critical parts...  It is also easier to tune a 1911 to just about any level of shooter with less than $50 worth of parts - and you can find them at any decent gunshop...

I do not actively belittle the Glock (I just don't like it.)  I DO like the H&K, but it don't fit my paws well.  I stick to the M1991 out of sheer bloody-mindedness and because it fits well in my hand (and I like the trigger - 30 minutes with a Dremel gives me 2.5# trigger with a break like glass...)

FFZ

if you consider the nightsights you may want to check out a weaponlight as this can illuminate the target area allowing you to see what is infront of you rather than just the sight

Let me give you the best advice someone gave me:  Aside from the cheap junk,wether or not a gun is good depends on what you like.  I personally own over 7 pistols and revolvers.  Each one of them works differently and serves a different purpose.  Here is my break down of plusses and minuses of each.

1911 - tones of cheap parts (you will need spares if you use it tones, just like any vehicle, especially when regulations start to change), trigger is fully adjustable, drawback is that it doesn't work well for those of us with large hands.  Can be in any price range and is like an IBM clone when upgrading

Glock - Easy operating system. Drawback - Hi-cap mags are rare and $$$.  Not the most accurate.  Just as good if not better than 1911.  Most clips are compatable with pocket sized ones.

CZ75.  Great trigger pull for my hand, Not easy to accurize.  Hi-caps are verrrrry rare.

HK USP- Great all around.  Over priced. Not super accurate if need better.  Versitile.  Hi-caps very rare. Spare parts are $$$.  Safeties not as easy to manipulate as others.  High $$$

Beretta - Very good gun.  Lots of high cap clips and spare parts.  Accurate.  Safety isn't that ergonomic.  Good for the price.  Fits my hand great.  Good trigger.

In general, get a gun that you can afford to by parts to last your kids.  By only a calibre that is plentiful unless you want to be at the mercy of suppliers.  Don't overpower, most 10mm semis are not built on a life lasting frame.  Any 10mm should be on a ss or better frame.  Not titanium or aluminum.  10mm are good only for a submachinegun in my opinion.  The most important feature is one that many ignore.  Buy one that fits your hand like a good pair of shoes and has sights that work for you.  You will know how well the gun fits by how it feels when you pull the trigger.  Remember when in comes to price versus accuracy.... How much accuracy do you really need in a pistol versus spending that extra $900 for just .5" more accuracy.  I hope you find what you want.

G19/G23

any number of SIGS

A Springfield or Kimber 1911

It was certainly defective then.  My Glock 27 has only failed to feed completely once, and that was during the break-in period, I believe on shot 12.  Several hundred rounds later and there have been no problems using several different types of FMJ and JHP ammo.

God Bless Texas

This thread looks like Pandora's Box--open wide!

Make life simple and go [b][blue]GETTA BERETTA[/blue][/b] [b]92[/b]  in 9mm.
Get a couple of extra 15-round used factory mags; get a case of ammo and a couple of holsters.  Then go shoot, shoot, shoot.

This gun is reliable; accurate; big; plentiful; the Military's sidearm; the most tested gun in History; and, it was the only pistol to unfailingly shoot the BAT ammo (BAT stands for Blitz Action Trauma) in a test that included some of the above mentioned pistols.
The only other gun that shot the BAT ammo without fail is the H&K MP5 subgun.
The other pistols in the test were a Browning Hi-Power; SIG P226; GLOCK 17; H&K USP; and a Browning MKIII Hi-Power.

The Beretta 92 also has second-strike capability whereas some pistols do not (GLOCK does not).

The source of this information is the SPECIAL WEAPONS FOR MILITARY AND POLICE 1999 issue by Harris Outdoor Publications.

Is that convincing, or what?

Ok, how about we list the qualities of a "good" pistol.

1. Fit in the shooters hand.
Control is very important.  You don't want a gun that is so unwieldy that you can't control it when firing.  It should be comfortable to hold.  I'm 6'3", but my grip on a Glock 20 doesn't seem that secure because of it's wider frame.

2. Caliber Recoil/muzzle flip.
Same as #1.  10mm full-power loads are harsh, but provide a heck of a lot of KE.  I personally like .40S&W, which is similar to the 10mm FBI load and less powerful than the original 10mm.  .45mm is pretty powerful, but decently less so than the 10mm full power.  .357sig is a nice cartridge too.

3. Ammo availability and cost.
Some calibers, like the 10mm and .357sig are harder to locate and more costly in some areas.  Mail-order may help [plug][url]http://www.ammoman.com[/url][/plug], but even with 10mm you mostly find the 10mm FBI loads which are not the same as full power 10mm loads.  .45ACP is pretty easy to come by domestically, as are .40S&W and 9mm.  This is probably because of previous and current LEO usage of those calibers.  .357sig is kind of hard to locate for me, but maybe not for you.  Ammoman only had two varieties of .357sig last tiem I checked.  Same with 10mm, and one was CCI/Blazer, which I think is crap.

4. Sights
If it's hard to acquire a sight picture, it's going to be hard to shoot.  I won't ever buy another pistol without some form of low-light sights.

5. Replacement parts
Some would argue a Glock doesn't need them, and from what I've read a Glock can run for thousands and thousands of rounds without problems.  .40S&W Glocks kabooming has been known to happen with lead bullets and factory barrels.  1911's are generally a "you get what you pay for item," and the sky is the limit with the 1911.  H&K parts aren't cheap.

6. Magazines
High cap single stack 1911 magazines are expensive and hard to come by.  Same with H&K USP magazines.  Glock hi-cap magazines are expensive, but pretty easy to locate.  Post-94 Glock magazines are generally less than $20.  Other brands can get as high as $40 or more for a 10-shot magazine.

7. Price
the HS2000 is pretty reasonably priced at ~$300.  A decent factory 1911 generally starts around $500, with good factory models in the four figure range.  H&K USP's are also pricey.  Glocks are generally $460-560 at local gun shows wo/w night sights.  Baretta 92's run around the same prices as a glock, but I'd personally rather have a glock.

I'm too tired to think of other areas.

I personally own a G27 w/ night sites and Pearce +1 magazine extensions and a SW99.  The ergonomics of the SW99 are top notch (it's almost identical to the Walther P99, and S&W's politics suck), but I'd trust the G27 as it's infinitely more reliable.

God Bless Texas

If you have to ask, nether 1911 or Glock would be perferble. Try something in DAO.

[b]Guardian[/b],

About 3 months ago, I asked everybody the exact same question:  "I'm getting a first pistol, for fun and for carry, what should I get?".
I ended up coughing up $300 for an HS2000 - was the BEST decision I've made in a long time.  Not only is it accurate, but it's an absolute blast (no pun intended) to take out to the range.  If you don't believe me, ask Beer_Slayer  or I_Luv_McUzi how much I rant and rave about the HS2000 (considering they do it about as much as I do).

It's the perfect 1st sidearm.

One of the handgun rags I read did a survey and found the Glock 22 to be the most popular handgun (by far) with law enforcement. I know this means something other than Glock gives the best LEO discount.

Here try these folkes, i burned up alot of this stuff in my 20 before i started rolling my own. its more fun that way. ive got an VV N105 load that will realy light up your life!             [url]www.georgia-arms.com/index.htm[/url]