www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/

Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ to ease relations
Roman Catholic leader stokes already heated debate on religion
The Associated Press
Updated: 8:29 a.m. MT Aug 15, 2007
AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims.

Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television on Monday that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass.

"Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? ... What does God care what we call him? It is our problem."

A survey in the Netherlands' biggest-selling newspaper De Telegraaf on Wednesday found 92 percent of the more than 4,000 people polled disagreed with the bishop's view, which also drew ridicule.

"Sure. Lets call God Allah. Lets then call a church a mosque and pray five times a day. Ramadan sounds like fun," Welmoet Koppenhol wrote in a letter to the newspaper.

Gerrit de Fijter, chairman of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, told the paper he welcomed any attempt to "create more dialogue", but added: "Calling God 'Allah' does no justice to Western identity. I see no benefit in it."

A spokesman from the union of Moroccan mosques in Amsterdam said Muslims had not asked for such a gesture.


Religious tensions on the rise
Signs of tension had already surfaced in the last two weeks after the head of a committee for former Muslims was attacked and populist anti-immigration politician Geert Wilders called for the Koran to be banned.

Bishop Muskens, who will shortly retire, has raised eyebrows in the past with suggestions that those who are hungry may steal bread and that condoms should be permissible in the fight against HIV and AIDS.

Some Dutch Muslims welcomed his comments as a valuable gesture of support coming just days after Wilders branded the Quran a "fascist book" in the vein of Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" which legitimizes violence.

Wilders, whose new party won nine seats out of the 150 in parliament in last November's elections, is well known for his firebrand remarks on Islam.

He said an attack by two Moroccans and a Somali on the head of a Dutch group for "ex-Muslims" had spurred him to write.

Issues of immigration and integration had faded from the Dutch political agenda over the last year, after a period of unprecedented social tension sparked by the 2004 murder of Theo Van Gogh, a filmmaker critical of Islam, by a Muslim militant.

Fuck that!

Negative ghostrider...

Seems like someone's been frequenting the hash bars.

I thought the title said God called Allah to ease the tensions.  

Ohhh my goodness...

There is one Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands that is not going to the "place that's the best" (to borrow a term from Norman Greenbaum)

Kick his ass Seabass!

Not the same guy so a different name seems appropriate to me.  

Over my cold, dead, body.

He need a wooden shoe placed in a swift manner against his backside.

Quoted: I thought the title said God called Allah to ease the tensions.

I read it the same way.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For #%$*@ sake!!!!!!! To #*$% with Allah.....it is "God almighty or Jesus Christ, NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!

They refuse to change so why should we change? In my opinion it would only embolden those who would do us harm.

Allah is a fictional character invented by an evil man with an evil plan. I will not be refering to my KING and CREATOR by that name.

Seems funny, but Allah is not in any of the translations of the bible I tend to read.  Jehovah shows up in one, but then again Yahweh does not show up in any either.

Fuck him to death.

never

Quoted: What does the Pope have to say regarding this heresy?

He's probably still in too much shock to answer.

Ra-men!

Tag.....


God willing.

Quoted: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/ Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ to ease relations Roman Catholic leader stokes already heated debate on religion The Associated Press Updated: 8:29 a.m. MT Aug 15, 2007 AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims. Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television on Monday that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass. "Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? ... What does God care what we call him? It is our problem." A survey in the Netherlands' biggest-selling newspaper De Telegraaf on Wednesday found 92 percent of the more than 4,000 people polled disagreed with the bishop's view, which also drew ridicule. "Sure. Lets call God Allah. Lets then call a church a mosque and pray five times a day. Ramadan sounds like fun," Welmoet Koppenhol wrote in a letter to the newspaper. Gerrit de Fijter, chairman of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, told the paper he welcomed any attempt to "create more dialogue", but added: "Calling God 'Allah' does no justice to Western identity. I see no benefit in it." A spokesman from the union of Moroccan mosques in Amsterdam said Muslims had not asked for such a gesture. Religious tensions on the rise Signs of tension had already surfaced in the last two weeks after the head of a committee for former Muslims was attacked and populist anti-immigration politician Geert Wilders called for the Koran to be banned. Bishop Muskens, who will shortly retire, has raised eyebrows in the past with suggestions that those who are hungry may steal bread and that condoms should be permissible in the fight against HIV and AIDS. Some Dutch Muslims welcomed his comments as a valuable gesture of support coming just days after Wilders branded the Quran a "fascist book" in the vein of Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" which legitimizes violence. Wilders, whose new party won nine seats out of the 150 in parliament in last November's elections, is well known for his firebrand remarks on Islam. He said an attack by two Moroccans and a Somali on the head of a Dutch group for "ex-Muslims" had spurred him to write. Issues of immigration and integration had faded from the Dutch political agenda over the last year, after a period of unprecedented social tension sparked by the 2004 murder of Theo Van Gogh, a filmmaker critical of Islam, by a Muslim militant.

NO, IT IS THEIR PROBLEM.

Tell you what....

I'll call God "Allah" when they allow us to call Mohammed "Lisa".

A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah.....


Sellout.

This is a dupe of a post in this thread:

dupe

Quoted: Seems funny, but Allah is not in any of the translations of the bible I tend to read.  Jehovah shows up in one, but then again Yahweh does not show up in any either.

You've been educated beyond your intelligence.

Quoted: Quoted: Seems funny, but Allah is not in any of the translations of the bible I tend to read.  Jehovah shows up in one, but then again Yahweh does not show up in any either. You've been educated beyond your intelligence.

You should have posted, "Allah your page 2s are mine."

Quoted: They refuse to change so why should we change? In my opinion it would only embolden those who would do us harm.

+1

Not religious myself but this is nothing more than appeasement, pure and simple.

Fuck that!  

Quoted: Allah is a fictional character invented by an evil man with an evil plan. I will not be refering to my KING and CREATOR by that name.

My feelings exactly.

Quoted: This is a dupe of a post in this thread: dupe

Shut up.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Seems funny, but Allah is not in any of the translations of the bible I tend to read.  Jehovah shows up in one, but then again Yahweh does not show up in any either. You've been educated beyond your intelligence. You should have posted, "Allah your page 2s are mine."

No, I was helping one that seeks to find.  And, the lesson has not ended.

Quoted: Ra-men!

I'm praying for rain
I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way
I wanna watch it all go down
Mom, please flush it all away
I wanna see it go right in and down
I wanna watch it go right in
Watch you flush it all away...

Well hell, why don't we go ahead a face mecca when we pray, if it really doesn't matter?

The Dutch people freakin hate those Islamic parasites with a passion.  

SECRETARY: "Bishop, the Pope is calling again on line 1"

BISHOP: "Tell him I just stepped out."

Well folks this will explain why the bishop said what he did. He is following Catholic Doctrine. Sick as it is.
Is the Catholic Catechism's view
on the Muslim god wrong?

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841, Muslims together with the Catholics, "adore the one, merciful God."  This cannot be true.  The Muslims and Catholics do not adore the same God.  In order to provide sufficient context for the quote from the Catechism, I have cited 2 paragraphs before and after paragraph 841.

   * 839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."[325]  The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] "the first to hear the Word of God."[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews 'belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ,'[328] 'for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.'[329]
   * 840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
   * 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]
   * 842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:  All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]
   * 843 "The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as 'a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.'"

If the Catholic Church is stating in paragraph 841 above, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that there are those within the Muslim community who may find salvation by becoming Christians and not remaining Muslims, then I would agree.  But, it does not appear to be saying this.

What is disturbing is the statement that "together with us they [Muslims] adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."  So, Catholics and Muslims both "adore the one, merciful God."  Quite frankly, it would seem that the Roman Catholic church has a faulty understanding of the God of Islam.

Islam acknowledges that it serves the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  But in so doing it is stating that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were Muslims!  Furthermore, Islam denies that God is a Trinity.

   * "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them" (Quran 5:73, Yusufali).
   * "They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve" (Quran 5:73, Pickthal).  See Chapter five of Online version of Quran.

Since the Trinity is the true biblical doctrine of God, how can the Muslims who deny the Trinity "adore the one, merciful God?"  They cannot.  Furthermore, in Christianity, Jesus is divine in nature (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9).  Yet, the Quran states that Jesus is not divine:

   * "They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things," (Quran 5:17, Pickthal).
   * "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!" (Quran 5:30, Pickthal)

Obviously, the Muslims do not adore the one true merciful God because they serve a false god.  They deny the Trinity and the deity of Christ.  Quite simply, they deny the true God and are not capable of adoring the true God as long as they hold to the false teachings of Islam. Therefore the paragraph in the CCC cannot be correct.

   "The Church's relationship with the Muslims. 'The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.'" (CCC 841).

Let me think 'bout it...
Mmmm! NOPE!!!

Someone should inform the good Bishop Muskins that he would still be considered an apostate by those  he wishes to appease.

And they would still want him forcibly converted or dead.

Or perhaps he would be happy to live as a dhimmi.

I've got a much better idea: lets all invite the moslems to refer to their god as Jehova and the holy spirit to foster understanding.

Then they can call their mosques churches.

And we can all live together in harmony forever and ever.

That would be nice.

Hey what would Jesus do?

Allah is not the same God that Christians and Jews worship. Allah is the impostor. Satan.

Quoted: What is disturbing is the statement that "together with us they [Muslims] adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."  So, Catholics and Muslims both "adore the one, merciful God."  Quite frankly, it would seem that the Roman Catholic church has a faulty understanding of the God of Islam.

No, the problem is that the Catholic Church has reached the point we WISH Islam would get to.

The RC Church has figured out that killing people over religion is generally a bad thing, and to be avoided at all costs. I believe my hierarchy has decided it would rather sound off some weak comparative theology than go on the record "encouraging religious strife".

The Papacy has lost sight of the idea that there is "a time for war".

But I don't worship Allah. In fact, of the many Hebrew names of G-d, Allah isn't on the list.

Yaweh is.
Elohim Adonai is.

I have yet to see Allah there.

No.

I will not call Him Allah.

Allah's true name... <Removed: COC vialation>


GM

Screw That! Muslims can ease relations by no longer using the word Allah and using the word JESUS instead.