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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:00:06 PM EDT
[#1]
How often do you hear people complain that their ARs fell apart? This doesn't even happen to M16s under military abuse (such as using their rifle as a step ladder to assist other soldiers into house windows).
Seperate uppers and lowers are the single biggest ASSET of the AR15 design. -Troy |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:02:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: ...hold the gun together!?!?! wouldn't that represent possible structural integrity problems?! I have other guns, incl a MAK-90. the AK is SOLID compared to an AR... believe it! |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:06:39 PM EDT
[#3]
... Were you sleeping during your Strength of Materials - Stress Analysis, Physics classes man?
... Smoke Dope? |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:21:00 PM EDT
[#4]
my complaint is because of the "2 pins to hold entire gun together design", the top & bottom does NOT fit together TIGHTLY, it CAN'T!
try this: put one hand on the handguard, put one hand on the stock. twist in opposite directions. there is some slack/movement there. maybe I'm just "anal" but I don't like the feeling that the gun may "fall apart" ;-) |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:22:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: maybe I'm just "anal"" ;-) Now there I think that you have hit the nail on the head!!! |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:23:19 PM EDT
[#6]
your gun is not going to fall apart. it is one of the best weapon systems ever devised. FAL is 2 piece also but i dont see you griping about that. sorry if i may seem grouchy.
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:23:49 PM EDT
[#7]
You better believe it.
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:25:29 PM EDT
[#8]
sorry I have no knowledge of that weapon ;-)
Quoted: your gun is not going to fall apart. it is one of the best weapon systems ever devised. FAL is 2 piece also but i dont see you griping about that. sorry if i may seem grouchy. |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:38:23 PM EDT
[#9]
This is a trick question, right? [;D]
Lower holds the trigger group/buffer assembly, mag. Upper bolt, barrel, etc. So the hammer in lower just needs to hit firing pin in upper to work. So who cares how many pins hold it together... [frag] |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:46:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: my complaint is because of the "2 pins to hold entire gun together design", the top & bottom does NOT fit together TIGHTLY, it CAN'T! try this: put one hand on the handguard, put one hand on the stock. twist in opposite directions. there is some slack/movement there. maybe I'm just "anal" but I don't like the feeling that the gun may "fall apart" ;-) Are you sure your handguard isn't doing the moving? Maybe you're right. The AR is a POS. I'll take it off your hands and dispose of it for you. |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:53:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Do you have an Oly or something? most good AR's have very little play. It can be tightened with an Accuwedge, for a couple bucks.
I had a Desert Eagle field strip itself while shooting, but never an AR. It is an inherently accurate and dependable design. |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 6:58:00 PM EDT
[#12]
A bit of play between the upper and the lower and STILL they can punch one inch groups or less at a hundered yards. Yet an AK is lucky to punch 4 inch groups (ya I know there are the exceptions, whatever).
And the last time you heard about an AR just falling to pieces was.............? |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 7:02:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: my complaint is because of the "2 pins to hold entire gun together design", the top & bottom does NOT fit together TIGHTLY, it CAN'T! try this: put one hand on the handguard, put one hand on the stock. twist in opposite directions. there is some slack/movement there. maybe I'm just "anal" but I don't like the feeling that the gun may "fall apart" ;-) A derivative of anus would definitely be descriptive in your case, I think. Besides, every AK variant I've ever owned had enough play in the workings to more than make up for the wiggle between upper and lower in an AR. Shittiest quality of any machinings on earth. PERIOD. Gotta admit the "Build 'em cheap and stack 'em deep" method of firearms design worked for the Russkies,though. All the same...I'll take my shitty POS overengineered high tech (relative to an AK) AR15's. sorry I have no knowledge of that weapon ;-) Nor many others it would seem. |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 7:14:59 PM EDT
[#14]
... well, we kicked your ass all over this topic [b]ttman[/b], but don't give up on us newbie[B)]
Don't take it personally either! ... only the thickest of skins crawl here man! |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 7:29:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Does the lower hold the upper on? - or is it possible that the upper is actually holding the lower on? -- Gotta go now -- time for our medication -- bye --ALLONS11
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Posted: 10/11/2001 7:48:22 PM EDT
[#16]
OK here's my .02cents:
Any gun originally designed to fire a round just a tad bigger than .22 and can be coverted to fire a .50BMG and not tear it apart is OK by me. [img]http://server50.hypermart.net/50bmg/images/G001.JPG[/img] [b]And yes it is the same 2 itty bitty pins that will hold the upper to the receiver. [/b] [img]http://server50.hypermart.net/50bmg/images/G003.JPG[/img] Hey can your AK do that? |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 7:53:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Hey lordtrader, HURRY UP AND GET TO 3000 POSTS!![;)]
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Posted: 10/11/2001 8:02:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Lordtrader who makes that upper and how much is it??
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Posted: 10/11/2001 8:09:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Here ya go
[url]server50.hypermart.net/50bmg/001.htm[/url] Its about $1500 |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 8:14:04 PM EDT
[#20]
thanks lordtrader
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Posted: 10/11/2001 8:21:32 PM EDT
[#21]
OH and lets not forget a .458SOCOM conversion. Otherwise know as the shoulder buster. Check it out here. [url]www.tromix.com[/url]
And yes. Same 2 itty bitty pins holding it together. [;)] |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 8:48:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: my complaint is because of the "2 pins to hold entire gun together design", the top & bottom does NOT fit together TIGHTLY, it CAN'T! My Lord ttman is right!! I just looked at my AR and found this to be true!! But it gets worse!! While checking my other guns I found out that my Sig Sauer pistol is also flawed!! [i]Upon inspection I found that there is only [b]ONE[/b] pin that holds the slide (read: upper) on!![/i] I spent alot of money on these firearms and I would think that the manufacture would have built them a hell of a lot stronger than this!! [size=3][red]These defects are probably why so many guns go off by themselves.... killing 14 children everyday!![/red][/size=3] |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 9:37:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Don't dare scrutinize a Glock, by God. The little spring-catch takedown might drive you nuts.
And honestly, i'd trust the two 1/4 inch pins in an AR a hell of a lot more than the shitty pop rivets i've seen used in some of these stamped AKs running around. ;P |
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Posted: 10/11/2001 10:17:49 PM EDT
[#24]
DEAR GOD! I had always read everyone's comments on the .458 but I never went and looked. I HAVE TO HAVE ONE! THE BULLETS FIT IN THE MAG TOO! I AM IN LOVE! I will be having a fund drive...
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Posted: 10/11/2001 10:41:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: ...hold the gun together!?!?! wouldn't that represent possible structural integrity problems?! I have other guns, incl a MAK-90. the AK is SOLID compared to an AR... AND an AR will outshoot your MAK-90 any day of the week! or are AK's filling the ranks a Hi Power mathces these days??? |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 4:41:07 AM EDT
[#26]
oh I don't take anything personally ;-) I'm in a TON of forums (cars, fish, computers, guns, etc), so I've grown very THICK SKIN =)
Quoted: ... well, we kicked your ass all over this topic [b]ttman[/b], but don't give up on us newbie[B)] Don't take it personally either! ... only the thickest of skins crawl here man! |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 4:48:22 AM EDT
[#27]
DAYUM!!!
Quoted: [img]http://server50.hypermart.net/50bmg/images/G001.JPG[/img] [b]And yes it is the same 2 itty bitty pins that will hold the upper to the receiver. [/b] [img]http://server50.hypermart.net/50bmg/images/G003.JPG[/img] Hey can your AK do that? |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 4:52:35 AM EDT
[#28]
ah so that is how guns (by themselves) kill people :-)
Quoted: My Lord ttman is right!! I just looked at my AR and found this to be true!! [red]These defects are probably why so many guns go off by themselves.... killing 14 children everyday!![/red][/size=3] |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 4:54:35 AM EDT
[#29]
I wouldn't dream of buying a glock, they're just TOO UGLY, lols.
Quoted: Don't dare scrutinize a Glock, by God. The little spring-catch takedown might drive you nuts. ;P |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 8:04:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: I wouldn't dream of buying a glock, they're just TOO UGLY, lols. Yeah you would be much better off with a chrome plated pearl handle Lorcin. |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 8:10:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: my complaint is because of the "2 pins to hold entire gun together design", the top & bottom does NOT fit together TIGHTLY, it CAN'T! It doesn't have to! |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 8:20:19 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: ...hold the gun together!?!?! wouldn't that represent possible structural integrity problems?! I have other guns, incl a MAK-90. the AK is SOLID compared to an AR... If you're that worried, I'm sure we can find [b]somebody[/b] here that would be willing to take that worrisome, structurally unsound AR off of your hands. That way you'll be able to be comforted by the solid nature of your Eastern Bloc weapons. Seriously though, of all the problems that have ever been reported regarding the AR-15/M-16, I'm reasonably sure that the upper & lowers separating does not rank high on the list. Is your concern the result of something really happening or just a general (and largely unfounded) fear? |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 8:44:31 AM EDT
[#33]
Ask some old Huey driver what the "Jesus Nut" is, and why it's so named.
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Posted: 10/12/2001 9:00:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: OK here's my .02cents: Any gun originally designed to fire a round just a tad bigger than .22 and can be coverted to fire a .50BMG and not tear it apart is OK by me. [img]http://server50.hypermart.net/50bmg/images/G001.JPG[/img] [b]And yes it is the same 2 itty bitty pins that will hold the upper to the receiver. [/b] Hey can your AK do that? Does anybody out there actually [b]have[/b] one of these things? I'm curious as to how the lower stands up to the beating from a 50BMG round. I'd hate to lose a lower for other use (especially since here in California, I [b]can't[/b] get another one to replace it). |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 9:44:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: I'd hate to lose a lower for other use (especially since here in California, I [b]can't[/b] get another one to replace it). Sure you can. DPMS makes a CA legal lower that would work great with the 50 BMG upper. |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 9:55:56 AM EDT
[#36]
The AR15 design is one of the most flexible designs when it comes to possible configurations. As you can see the AR15 lower with it's two pin design can accomodate .50 cal uppers and everything else from pistol calibers on up. This weapon does get a little loose from time and high mileage, but it doesent have any bearing on it's reliability or it's accuraccy for that matter. The first M16 that I was issued in boot camp was so loose that it would wiggle and flex every way posssible, but it never failed and I shot high expert with it. You gotta love the AR15 design for all it can do, it has so many applications, far more than most modern military small arms.
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Posted: 10/12/2001 10:39:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: DPMS makes a CA legal lower that would work great with the 50 BMG upper. Interesting. Where might I find info on this lower. I visited dpmsinc.com but I couldn't find anything about a CA legal lower. Also, I was wondering if anybody has actually had any experience with the .50BMG upper. |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 10:45:05 AM EDT
[#38]
PYamasaki, My old FFL in CA had one of these on a Bushmaster receiver. Worked great. Its one shot only though. When I left CA he has put thru about 200rds in the rifle. Yes the upper is still legal in CA. YOu can buy all the uppers you want its just the receiver thats been banned(since the recvr is an AR recvr).
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Posted: 10/12/2001 11:17:05 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: DPMS makes a CA legal lower that would work great with the 50 BMG upper. Interesting. Where might I find info on this lower. I visited dpmsinc.com but I couldn't find anything about a CA legal lower. Also, I was wondering if anybody has actually had any experience with the .50BMG upper. Unassembled: [url]http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=1278345&St=8254&St2=-367665696&St3=199380098&DS_ID=9&Product_ID=11135&DID=90[/url] Assembled: [url]http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=1278345&St=8254&St2=-367665696&St3=199380098&DS_ID=9&Product_ID=11128&DID=90[/url] |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 11:27:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: [size=3][red]These defects are probably why so many guns go off by themselves.... killing 14 children everyday!![/red][/size=3] Yeah, I have been waiting for some time for this S&W to kill somebody: [url]http://www.frenchu.com/gun/guns_watch.html[/url] Nuckles. [smash] |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 12:10:21 PM EDT
[#41]
PYamasaki, My old FFL in CA had one of these on a Bushmaster receiver. Worked great. Its one shot only though. When I left CA he has put thru about 200rds in the rifle. Unassembled: [url]http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=1278345&St=8254&St2=-367665696&St3=199380098&DS_ID=9&Product_ID=11135&DID=90[/url] Assembled: [url]http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=1278345&St=8254&St2=-367665696&St3=199380098&DS_ID=9&Product_ID=11128&DID=90[/url] Thanks for the info! That means even if I put one together from scratch, it's a sub $2000 .50BMG rifle. It's still a lot of money but compared to a Barrett M99 listing at over $3000 and a Barrett M82A1 listing for over $7000, it's a bargain. I'll have to break open my piggy bank when I get home and see if it's all just a pipe dream... |
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Posted: 10/12/2001 12:54:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Ask some old Huey driver what the "Jesus Nut" is, and why it's so named. The company I work for makes a tool to tighten down the Jesus Nut (it's capable of 9000 lbf.ft.). So, seeing as our tool is responsible for keeping that thing on I know exactly where it got its name from! [:O] |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 8:35:05 AM EDT
[#43]
I just did a search on accuwedge. I can't believe the reciever is made fr, *grasp* aluminum!!! I'll have to get an Accuwedge, cause the the gun just does not feel like a solid unit...
www.fulton-armory.com/AccuWedge.html |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 8:46:51 AM EDT
[#44]
ttman,
I can run up some plans for a reciever and get them over to the machine shop, titanium bar stock is going to run you about 500 to 700 and then the machine work is going to be pushing 3000 but I can make it for you if you want. Ice |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 8:55:37 AM EDT
[#45]
HEY MAN I AM BY NO MEANS AN EXPERT BY I THINK YOU ARE WORRYING ABOUT A PROBLEM THAT DOES NOT EXIST. DURING THE LAST ELEVEN YEARS I HAVE USED THEM I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANY M-16/AR-15 OR ANY VARIANT THERE OF FALLING APART. THE M-16/AR-15 IS HAS MORE THAN PROVEN ITSELF A RELIABLE, EFFECTIVE, AND ACCURATE WEAPON SYSTEM. JUST TRY AND TAKE A 500 YARD SHOT WITH YOUR MAK-90! GOD BLESS AMERICA! [MARINES]
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Posted: 10/23/2001 8:58:30 AM EDT
[#46]
LOLs, a titanium AR15 would be very nice... but I bet that still does not solve the problem of the upper & lower fitting TIGHTLY ;-)
Quoted: ttman, I can run up some plans for a reciever and get them over to the machine shop, titanium bar stock is going to run you about 500 to 700 and then the machine work is going to be pushing 3000 but I can make it for you if you want. Ice |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 9:04:00 AM EDT
[#47]
On all but 2 of the AR15s and Bushmasters and Armalites and especially DPMSs I have handled, they haven't rattled as much as the SKS, the Mak 90 and the one Russian AK in the group I go shooting with. And honestly, pop the pin, flip it up and look. The feed ramp and bolt is designed to feed with the wobble there is.
My advice to you is take a good AR15 and go do some quality range time. Have fun with it, they aren't designed to put all 30 rds thru one hole at 300yrds, but heh, they are fun and darn accurate. Ice |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 10:47:12 AM EDT
[#48]
I just bought an accuwedge & have put it in. it helped a little... I've come to the conclusion that maybe Olympic Arm AR15s are just made sh***y, or is this a "problem" w/all AR15s? do BMs also exhibit this?
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Posted: 10/23/2001 10:59:28 AM EDT
[#49]
Not really, go to the local gunstore and try some different rifles.
Ice |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 11:53:02 AM EDT
[#50]
Well if 2 pins holding an M16 together bothers you then you are REALLY going to hate the M1911, CAL45 because its only held together by 1 pin. [rolleyes]
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