I have power at the breaker panel, power at the relay, but the pressure tank reads ZERO and no water is flowing.

What else, besides the well pump, could it be?

*gets a nice glass of water because he gets water from Lake Michigan*.
Just messing with you, hope you find out what the trouble is.

What kind of well?  Depth?  Submersible or jet pump?  If jet, deep well or pump mounted ejector?  If deep mount, double pipe or single down the well?

how about the switch that turns on the pump.  check the contacts for corrosion after you check for power.

It's Bush's fault.

Quoted: What kind of well?  Depth?  Submersible or jet pump?  If jet, deep well or pump mounted ejector?  If deep mount, double pipe or single down the well?

<-----Slowly shakes head.


I have no idea. I bought the house over 10 years ago and I never messed with the pump, because it always worked.

Th house has been here since '83 and I wouldn't be surprised if the pump is original. The house was a vacation house before I bought it.

Quoted: how about the switch that turns on the pump.  check the contacts for corrosion after you check for power.

Yep, looks good.

Quoted: It's Bush's fault.

Goddamnit! That's the last time I vote for him!

Ok, if you can see a motor and it isn't in the casing, you have a jet pump.  But I bet it is a submersible pump if the casing is 4" ID or greater.  I bet you also have a pitless adapter which means you need a puller to get it out.  This threads into the top of the pitless adapter and you pull the string and pump from the casing adapter.

Unless you have a friend with tools, it is too much expense.  


Now if the motor is visible and outside the well casing, you have a jet pump.  Depending on depth, it will have the jet ejector in the well casing below the water table.  The smaller pressure tube has a check valve, called a foot valve that keeps water in the piping, even when the motor is off.  frequently, this valve fails.  If you can devise a jack, you can pull the string yourself and fix it with ordinary tools.  Once fixed, you need to prime the pump meaning you need a few gallons of good water.

Quoted: Ok, if you can see a motor and it isn't in the casing, you have a jet pump.  But I bet it is a submersible pump if the casing is 4" ID or greater.  I bet you also have a pitless adapter which means you need a puller to get it out.  This threads into the top of the pitless adapter and you pull the string and pump from the casing adapter. Unless you have a friend with tools, it is too much expense.   Now if the motor is visible and outside the well casing, you have a jet pump.  Depending on depth, it will have the jet ejector in the well casing below the water table.  The smaller pressure tube has a check valve, called a foot valve that keeps water in the piping, even when the motor is off.  frequently, this valve fails.  If you can devise a jack, you can pull the string yourself and fix it with ordinary tools.  Once fixed, you need to prime the pump meaning you need a few gallons of good water.

From what you posted, I have a submersible pump. The casing is probably 8" in diameter.

I have a call into the local well guy. Hopefully he'll get back to me tomorrow.

Thanks for the info.

Ok, if you have a sub pump and there is a pipe coming out of the top of the well casing (and the top of the well should have a seal to keep rats out ), you MIGHT be able to pull the pump, depending on the pipe material.  Newer use plastic which is easy, even at 100+ feet.  But steel?  You need a jack.

Be safe and pull the breaker before pulling the pump...also, DISCONNECT IT FROM THE SWITCH.  Tag out and lock out just to be sure.  240 is a killer.

Once you pull the string, don't mess with the pump.  Get a new one from Tractor Supply or equal.  Get NEW wire and connectors.  No sense losing a new pump on old wire.  And some pumps need correct size capacitors for the length of wire from the contactor.  Buy accirdingly.

Quoted: Ok, if you have a sub pump and there is a pipe coming out of the top of the well casing (and the top of the well should have a seal to keep rats out ), you MIGHT be able to pull the pump, depending on the pipe material.  Newer use plastic which is easy, even at 100+ feet.  But steel?  You need a jack. Be safe and pull the breaker before pulling the pump...also, DISCONNECT IT FROM THE SWITCH.  Tag out and lock out just to be sure.  240 is a killer. Once you pull the string, don't mess with the pump.  Get a new one from Tractor Supply or equal.  Get NEW wire and connectors.  No sense losing a new pump on old wire.  And some pumps need correct size capacitors for the length of wire from the contactor.  Buy accirdingly.

When you take the cover off of the well, all I can see is the wires going down into the casing.

Before you pull the pump, did you check to see if the relay actuates?  One person can watch with their hands in their pockets while the other flips the breaker on & off.


OTOH, we pulled a submersible of around 130' depth because it was drawing power but no pressure.  It turned out that it had come unscrewed from the end of the line of pipe and was hanging by the wires.  

Quoted: Quoted: Ok, if you have a sub pump and there is a pipe coming out of the top of the well casing (and the top of the well should have a seal to keep rats out ), you MIGHT be able to pull the pump, depending on the pipe material.  Newer use plastic which is easy, even at 100+ feet.  But steel?  You need a jack. Be safe and pull the breaker before pulling the pump...also, DISCONNECT IT FROM THE SWITCH.  Tag out and lock out just to be sure.  240 is a killer. Once you pull the string, don't mess with the pump.  Get a new one from Tractor Supply or equal.  Get NEW wire and connectors.  No sense losing a new pump on old wire.  And some pumps need correct size capacitors for the length of wire from the contactor.  Buy accirdingly. When you take the cover off of the well, all I can see is the wires going down into the casing.

Submersible with pitless adapter.  Makes service a LITTLE easier but you need a pitless puller.  You can make one from galvanozed pipe and fittings.  But then you need something to pull the tool, adapter, pump and however many feet of pipe you have.  

Flexible poly pipe is easier as they have an electric traction winch to do the work...three pinch rollers, one driven, pull the poly pipe in one easy trip.

But if pipe is ridgid, you need big equipment.  

Quoted: Before you pull the pump, did you check to see if the relay actuates?  One person can watch with their hands in their pockets while the other flips the breaker on & off. OTOH, we pulled a submersible of around 130' depth because it was drawing power but no pressure.  It turned out that it had come unscrewed from the end of the line of pipe and was hanging by the wires.

The relay is in the on position. The contacts are touching. If you flip the breaker on and off there is no change. The arm on the relay moves freely (it is under spring pressure), it's not "welded" to the contacts or burnt.


Normally, when the pump kicks on, there is  slight dimming of the lights (for a split second) downstairs in the utility room. Now there is nothing.

Quoted: I have power at the breaker panel, power at the relay, but the pressure tank reads ZERO and no water is flowing. What else, besides the well pump, could it be?

Did you measure power at the relay coil or at the each of the relay contacts?
If you have power at the contacts, the pump (or wiring to pump) is shot, othrwise the Astronauts drink their piss while in the space (sorry could not resist).

Quoted: Quoted: I have power at the breaker panel, power at the relay, but the pressure tank reads ZERO and no water is flowing. What else, besides the well pump, could it be? Did you measure power at the relay coil or at the each of the relay contacts? If you have power at the contacts, the pump (or wiring to pump) is shot, othrwise the Astronauts drink their piss while in the space (sorry could not resist).

Who told you that?  Lisa Marie Nowak?  What does she do, squeeze it from her adult diaper?

In all my time as a plumber (given, some well experience, not a lot), I've never encountered anything BUT Poly well lines?  Why the hell, or rather where would you find steel well lines!?  It seems pretty ridiculous to me.  I take it these would be found on old systems?

In all my time as a plumber (given, some well experience, not a lot), I've never encountered anything BUT Poly well lines? Why the hell, or rather where would you find steel well lines!? It seems pretty ridiculous to me. I take it these would be found on old systems?

Typically we will only set a submersible to a depth of 500' on poly, beyond that pipe stretch becomes a major factor.  

There are some less than ethical contractors whom will only set the top 20' galvanized or rigid plastic to facilitate the need for a crane truck.

To the OP, if you have access to an amprobe and a good voltage meter, the rundown of trouble shooting is as follows:

1.  Check voltage at breaker box coming in and out of breaker.

2.  Check voltage on pressure switch coming in (typically outside posts) and voltage through  pressure switch (typically inside posts).

3.  If you have voltage at all of these locations, put your amprobe around one of the wires.  If you have a "3 wire" system, you will have a black, red, and yellow, in addition to a green ground in most cases.  If you have what is referred to as a "2 wire" motor, you will only have a red and black, plus possibly the green ground.

4.  Assuming you have a "3 wire", put the amprobe on the red wire first.  This is part of your start winding.  You should see the amperage spike up to roughly 10 to 15 amps, depending upon the HP of your motor, then drop back to zero or 1 or 2 amps.  Then put the amprobe on either the black or yellow wire and you should see roughly 4.5 to 7 amps, again depending upon HP.

5.  If you have a "2 wire", put the amprobe on either the red or black and you should see roughly the above mentioned amps.

6.  If you don't have any of the above readings, you can do an ohm test on your motor windings, as well as checking to see if any of the pump wires have continuity to ground.

7.  If your motor checks out, you could have a broken shaft on the pump or some other malady.

Keith mentioned buying a pump at Tractor Supply or some other similar outlet.  As someone who has been in the business for nearly 40 years, I would HIGHLY recommend spending an extra few hundred to purchase the highest quality you can get.  This would be a  stainless steel pump such as a  Grundfos, Aermotor, Jacuzzi, F&W, among several other brands, with a Franklin Electric Motor.  Absoulutely purchase new wire.
In the early to mid '80's, there were some major problems with several wire mfg's.  We had literally hundreds of situations where the wiring from that period would fail after 20 or 25 years.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

Good Luck.

This thread is going into my "Excellent info I have no need of now but may later" file.. You guys are good!

80fl, has it all right but the biggest problem I have seen is the start capacitor if it is in the control box going bad, or even had a few that the well caseing goes bad and gets sand in the pump and runs but wont pump any more, so like 80fl said you really need to clamp the wires to see for sure it is drawing power,good luck

UPDATE:

It is the pump. I had the well guy come and check it out and oh joy, I need a new pressure tank, too. This one has a bad diaphram. He said I could leave it for now and he'd get the well working this afternoon, but I said might as well replace it while the water is turned off.

I'm going to the local Friends of the NRA dinner tonight. Luckily, they have an open bar.

Looks like it's going to be an expensive weekend.

Wells always go out on Friday at around 4:00...it is like they know when to die

Yeah, this kind of stuff only happens on a Friday afternoon so you are forced to spend the weekend with broke shit.

Pressure tanks-

I went with a new wound plastic tank

Less sweat, less fittings to leak and no rusty!!!!!

No more expensive either

Buy the correct size for the pump-not wha the "builder" wanted to pay for.....

There is a 7 day waiting period on purchases of new well pumps.

Yep --never a good time I replaced mine myself last year it was 165ft down. the pump was about $400.00 but I upgraded to a higher volume pump in the process. the worst part is pulling it out.  If yours is not deep its not usually too hard but if its 100-200 feet it can be a royal bitch.
watch your ratings on your new pump --specs on the box are usually like 10 GPM or some such but are computed at 10 feet of depth if you look closely most will only do half that at 100ft or more.
and get all of the pump warranty info and registration most of em are only warrantied for two to five years and they are prorated on mine I paid the extra $39 for two years of full replacement coverage just in case something did go wrong with it
Ask you well guy if he warrantties the INSTALLATION for say 30 days in case a problem develops you dont have to pay to have it pulled up again (if there is any kind of problems it will be apparent within a few days)

I replaced my 2" well with a 4" last year, it was $2400, consider your self lucky.

Quick UPDATE:

The wire was broken off just above the pump. The pump was the original one, date coded '82. I had him replace the pump and wire, there was no sense putting the old pump back down the well.

          Sounds like you made the right choice, Look at it this way-pump installed right could last up to 20 years and if the SHTF and you have a genny you are in the catbird seat for bugin.

Quoted: Quick UPDATE: The wire was broken off just above the pump. The pump was the original one, date coded '82. I had him replace the pump and wire, there was no sense putting the old pump back down the well.

What did the whole thing cost if I can ask?

Quoted: Quoted: Quick UPDATE: The wire was broken off just above the pump. The pump was the original one, date coded '82. I had him replace the pump and wire, there was no sense putting the old pump back down the well. What did the whole thing cost if I can ask?

I don't know yet, he's still working. I intend on posting the amount, just to give an idea on what this costs in my neck of the woods.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quick UPDATE: The wire was broken off just above the pump. The pump was the original one, date coded '82. I had him replace the pump and wire, there was no sense putting the old pump back down the well. What did the whole thing cost if I can ask? I don't know yet, he's still working. I intend on posting the amount, just to give an idea on what this costs in my neck of the woods.

Thanks George.
My well is as new as the house, two years , but it's still good to know what stuff costs.

Quick UPDATE:

Ok, he's done and I just took a shower. The pump is 190' down the well.

I didn't get a bill, but I got a quick over view, pump $400, pressure tank $700, fitting kit (gauge, pressure release, shut-off, all new conections from the water line to the tank and out to the house plumbing etc etc) $100, new relay switch and wire from switch to top of well, labor and wire down to the pump $400 (approx).

So around $1600 to $1650 is what I'm expecting when the bill comes.

I did a quick looksee on the web and it appears the mark-up on parts is about double. Oh well, it's a Saturday and he came out and go my water working, he earned his money, it cold and damp outside today.

I did a quick looksee on the web and it appears the mark-up on parts is about double.

Believe me, if a Contractor can't make 100% on materials he won't make much at the end of the year.

The 100% probably equals about 10% by the time expenses are paid.

Glad you were able to have it taken care of this weekend.

Did you have to take a shower because you felt "Dirty" after getting butt raped that hard on parts?

j/k. Glad to see you got it fixed. I need to replace the well pump on my old house before I sell it. It will cost me about $400 to do it.

Quoted: That must be one hell of a pressure tank. do you mind post the model # for it ?

Goulds (G'oauld?   )

26 Gal (6.7 Drawdown) Hydro-Pro Pressure Tank w/Base Stand-Model: V80
Color: Blue Gallons: 25 Dia. 15.38" Height: 39.56" Lbs: 43
Product #: 0490-035  

Quoted: I did a quick looksee on the web and it appears the mark-up on parts is about double. Believe me, if a Contractor can't make 100% on materials he won't make much at the end of the year. The 100% probably equals about 10% by the time expenses are paid. Glad you were able to have it taken care of this weekend.

Oh no, please understand, I don't really begrude him his markup, I'm just relating the story.

Well, alright, it bugs me a little.

I'll pay the bill and I won't bitch anymore, as I said he got everything working in about 3 hours. My family is in retail and I know all about the markup.