User Panel
Posted: 9/25/2001 2:36:00 PM EDT
Lax gun laws help terrorists
http://www.globe.com/dailyglobe2/268/oped/Lax_gun_laws_help_terrorists+.shtml By Thomas Oliphant, Globe Staff, 9/25/2001 WASHINGTON THE DAY BEFORE the United States was attacked this month, there was a revealing jury verdict in Detroit that demonstrates not only how porous this country is for terrorists but also what a genuinely bipartisan response to the serious threat should look like. On Sept. 10, in what was as close to an open-and-shut case as you can get, two brothers were convicted on a variety of federal weapons law violations plus conspiracy to ship stuff to the terrorist organization Hezbollah in Lebanon. The weapons and ammunition they almost succeeded in smuggling abroad included numerous items purchased at gun shows - the ideal shopping mall for criminals in general and terrorists in particular and one that has been used repeatedly for a decade. As if anyone needs reminding of how a crook-friendly system operates in the United States, one of those brothers (with a red-flag felony record on a previous grand theft rap) could go shopping at gun shows in Michigan because federal and state law does not require that thorough background checks on would-be weapons buyers be completed before such sales by unlicensed ''dealers.'' Just for the record, Ali Boumelhem was arrested in November of last year before he could depart with a one-way ticket back to Lebanon, along with his brother Mohamed. According to press reports and the court record, the arrest came after lengthy surveillance and the discovery on a Lebanon-bound ship of an auto parts container whose cargo included shotguns, ammunition, flash suppressors, assault weapons parts, and a police scanner. His brother, with a previously clean record, could go shopping for his mass-murdering buddies at gun stores anywhere. But Ali, operating unchecked at gun shows, was special. The government surveillance of him included an informant sighting of him in Beirut unloading previous shipments of weapons and explosive as well as video of him firing automatic weapons in Lebanon and proclaiming his Hezbollah association (he's a leader in its Amal militia). It is understandable in the wake of the mass murder here and in New York that the authorities are scrambling to begin seriously protecting American citizens (who comprise the front line in this new war) from spectacular assaults from the air or from other weapons of mass destruction. But the federal authorities mobilizing around the clock are just as worried about the solitary suicide bomber or spray-shooter, especially now that the myth of American invulnerability to terrorism has been so decisively punctured. For that kind of terrorism, the gun show is ideal. The issue now is whether ideology and politics can continue to keep it so. From the FBI and the military to local police departments, the idea now is supposed to be that any facet of life in this country that facilitates mass murder must be scrutinized with fresh intolerance; after repeated warnings, homeland defense of our citizen front line is on its way to creation. |
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But when the Justice Department made its initial legislative recommendations to strengthen law enforcement, all the proposals dealt with detention of immigrants and intelligence gathering; Attorney General John Ashcroft, a progun fanatic, left alone the swiss cheese gun laws that made the Hezbollah operation in this country so easy. The effort to close the ridiculous gun show loopholes is already bipartisan, pushed by Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman. In the negotiations over new domestic security law, McCain-Lieberman belongs in the mix. For those who have slept through the last few decades, bipartisanship is not our normal state of affairs. When it becomes essential, like right now, it doesn't simply descend from the heavens; it is constructed, painstakingly, on the ground. People who typically disagree take items off their own agendas and accept items from other's agendas for a greater, vital purpose. To work it takes a constant effort. From the progressive world, there have already been a host of concessions, most notably the end for now of frontal assaults on President Bush's missile defense plans. There is also a serious attempt to negotiate domestic security proposals that are both flexible and respectful of the Constitution. It is difficult work, and there are concerns on the right as well, but the chances of consensus remain good. It hardly endangers that consensus to add to these talks a virtual imperative to fix a ridiculous legal situation that makes it easy for terrorists to shop for the very instruments of their business. Hezbollah is big-time terrorism. From its murky ranks came mass murders and hostage-taking of Americans in the region in the 1980s. Its targeting of Israelis today is despicable, and its state sponsorship from the likes of Iran and Syria is, if anything, more nearly overt than any assistance that Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network receives. Ultimately, any worldwide assault on terror networks with international tentacles that leaves Hezbollah standing would be a joke. In the meantime, it's not too much to insist that we should make it much harder for terrorists to shop for weapons in this country. Thomas Oliphant's e-mail address is [email protected]. This story ran on page A19 of the Boston Globe on 9/25/2001. © Copyright 2001 Globe Newspaper Company |
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I'd guess most of us were wondering how long it'd take the SOBs to start this shit.......
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Oliphant has always been a anti-gun asshole. Now he thinks he can use this, words fail. He should be dead, this isnt free and open debate, this is a personal assault on gun owners. You cant even rebut this outrage, there are no words in the English language for it.
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Im writing him an email right now. I am not gonna call names Im gonna use pure logic.
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Gee whiz, what happened to all of the flag waiving "patriotism"?
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Quoted: Gee whiz, what happened to all of the flag waiving "patriotism"? View Quote Pat asshole Oliphant never had any. Don't you worry. |
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I don't believe there is a diaper head in this country that could walk out of a gun show or guns shop with a weapon ever again.
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Howie Carr, a host on 680 AM radio, and a LONGTIME Boston Herald reporter/columnist ripped this guy a new one today. Howie's the real deal. Show airs 1500-1900 EST and is syndicated. After the last few reporter/columnist scandals of the Globe, their credibility, never high except among the kennedyophiles, has reached a new low.
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Gun shows are a hotbed for box cutter sales.
PS---what do you expect from a dickhead with a name like Oliphant...? |
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Quoted: On Sept. 10, in what was as close to an open-and-shut case as you can get, two brothers were convicted on a variety of federal weapons law violations plus conspiracy to ship stuff to the terrorist organization Hezbollah in Lebanon. View Quote HA HA HA HA HA HA YEAH! Like Hezbollah needs to shop at American gun shows!!!! HA HA HA HA |
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I am surprised that Chuck Schumer & Co haven't
budded up to Bush and tried to slip new gun grabbing laws already. Just up their slippery alley. The nice guy stuff is so phoney. A week before the attack, Daschle & Gephardt were trashing Bush and calling him an idiot. As soon as Bush's poll numbers drop, they will be all over him. Ditto Dan Rather, who really would have Gore in the White House. Case in point: the image of Hillary Clinton at the Bush speech. What a gruesome broad. John |
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Quoted: Im writing him an email right now. I am not gonna call names Im gonna use pure logic. View Quote Logic? With him? How? |
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Dear Mr. Oliphant,
What ever happened to the bill of rights, the 2nd amendment. By decreasing our freedoms we are actually allowing the terrorists win. The only thing gun laws have succeeded in doing is keeping firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens. All gun laws are unconstitutional. The second amendment was written to preserve the rest. An oppressive government stands no chance against an equally armed populace. You types of folks often dismiss the 2nd amendment by claiming that it only applies to the national guard and you also often misquote the US vs. Miller case. 12 articles of amendment were proposed on September 25, 1789 before the Congress of the United States. Except for the first two amendments all were ratified by the required number of states by December 15, 1791. The national guard was created right around World War 1 in the mid to late teens. The 2nd amendment says "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. " -Thomas Jefferson A well regulated militia is a term that has been debated but I believe once again Thomas Jefferson describes it best: "Every able-bodied freeman, between the ages of 16 and 50, is enrolled in the militia. Those of every county are formed into companies, and these again into one or more battalions, according to the numbers in the county. They are commanded by colonels, and other subordinate officers, as in the regular service. In every county is a county-lieutenant, who commands the whole militia of his county, but ranks only as a colonel in the field. We have no general officers always existing. These are appointed occasionally, when an invasion or insurrection happens, and their commission determines with the occasion. The governor is head of the military, as well as civil power. The law requires every militia-man to provide himself with the arms usual in the regular service." -Thomas Jefferson (Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781) Another thing that tends to upset me is the the lefts tendency that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." "No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." |
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"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence." "In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law." "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." all apply to the individuals as rights, and that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. " is the only one in 10 that applies to the state. This is hogwash, the state is not referred as a person, it is just another chapter in Sarah Brady's and the Million Mom March's plan for civilian disarmament. Here are a few of the myths of gun control: -Gun Control Saves Lives In Switzerland law dictates all male household members possess and maintain a military rifle and ammunition. In 1995 Switzerland had a murder rate 40% lower than Germany. Gun control also saved all those lives of 6 million Jews in the holocaust! How many of them would have been hauled off had they been armed? -The family gun is more likely to kill you or someone you know than to kill in self-defense. Not true at all. Honest studies show that just the displaying of a gun usually is enough to make a criminal run away. -13 kids a day are killed by guns Strangely enough the word kid refers to kids as old as 19-24. -In England, where handguns are banned or heavily regulated, the murder rate is a fraction of what it is in the U.S. In England handgun crime has risen more than 50% since the ban of these weapons showing no impact on murder rates or crime. |
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-The police are there to protect us. It's too dangerous for the average citizen to try to apprehend criminals.
The Supreme court has ruled that the police have no obligation to protect you. A police officer who only shoots twice a year to qualify is 5.5 times more likely to hit a civilian than a criminal. A civilian with a high knowledge of firearms, shoots often, and is an average marksman is much more likely to hit a criminal with a bullet. -No One Needs An Assault Weapon The term assault weapon/assault rifle means a rifle capable of selective fire (safe/semi/full auto). Even bolt actions, hunting rifles, shotguns, and handguns are even referred to as "assault weapons" or ".50 caliber military sniper weapons capable of taking out an armored car". Or the false term "cop killer bullets" as one single cop has never been killed by such type of bullet which mostly consist of copper/bronze/brass/steel/tungsten alloys. Assault Weapons regardless are protected by the 2nd amendment. One does not stand a chance of defeating a tyrannous government if they do not have at least somewhat equal weapons (semi-automatic at least) -Noone needs an Ak-47/Ar-15 or machine gun with 30 round magazines to hunt deer The second amendment is not about hunting, it is about protecting the citizens from a tyrannous government and acting as a last resort if the US should be invaded. All small-arms are protected by the 2nd amendment regardless, this includes Machine Guns, Assault Rifles, Pistols, Sniper Rifles, Hunting Rifles, and flintlocks. It was only a matter of time before someone like you would rise to take advantage of the situation and use it as a reason for advancement of your political agenda on civilian disarmament. Sincerely, A strong supporter of the 2nd amendment and bill of rights. |
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Colonel, you lost the arguement with your first few sentences. This guy is a LIBERAL. The more government the better. The only government he would fight is one that allows people to live their lives without intervention.
He considers you to be an idiot, because you interpret the 2nd amendment in that manner. There can be no arguement with people like him. The only thing he MIGHT understand is the right of minority women to have a means of self-defense. You, ColonelKlink are the enemy of a free America. Didn't you know that? I'll give the US 25 more years, and civil war will break out. |
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You didn't think gun rights would escape the coming storm, did you? I mean, really!
I doubt very much that anything obtained at a gun show here in the US is even half as good as what you can get in the open air arms bazaars in the Middle East. RPGs, PK machine guns, you name it. The Hezbollah doesn't need to come to America to find whatever they need. This guy Oliphant is a traitor. |
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So Torf, what will the sides be on the civil war? If civil war broke out do you think the U.N. would step in to help the lefts?
Smalls LCpl of Marines |
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LMAO,....So then, what he is saying is,...Middle eastern terrorists, who can obtain fully automatic AK 47s for next to nothing in their own back yard, are paying between $200, and $350 for neutered, semiautomatic Americanized AK 47s, at American gun shows, then paying whatever it costs to have them smuggled to the middle east.......Good Heavens! It sure is a good thing bayonet lugs are illegal on those rifles, or those terrorists would just be TOO heavily armed, and might take over the world.
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Quoted: So Torf, what will the sides be on the civil war? If civil war broke out do you think the U.N. would step in to help the lefts? Smalls LCpl of Marines View Quote The UN probably won't help out, they don't want to see either side win. 25% of the population will fight for the Constitution, while the other 25% will fight "Domestic Terrorism". %50 won't fight. That's the way it always is. I suppose 30% of the nation might have to go to war with the UN someday. Either there will be a war, there will be a return to the Constitution, or everyone will roll over and let tyrrany rule. |
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It is my belief that good is stronger than evil. the smallest amount of good can go up against the largest amount of evil and good will prevail.
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1. Pakistan manufactures weapons, including HK knock-off's
2. The people who sell their weapons at a gunshow without an FFL are selling their own property (supposedly, but thats why we have undercover ATF agents) what if they went to their house instead? or classifieds? 3. i would not think that under any circumstance would one sell a silencer at a gunshow to one who has not paid the transfer tax 4. Silencers are only but so complicated and could be homemade. since the Afganistans were able to produce their own AK during their war with the soviets, then they could potentially produce their own silencers. 5. the Taliban is not likely to submit itself to background checks or registering a weapon in any country, much less here in the USSA. weapons can be acquired in a number of means including Chechnya or any other 3rd world crap hole. 6. during Veitnam, the Veitnamese had underground weapon factories. what would prevent any organized and motivated terrorist organization from building its own weapons from the ground up? i own a book that has pistol blueprints and How-to. i remember their being a book that shows you how to build a 9mm SMG using common parts from a hardware store. all costing less then $200 or so. 1 in 5 firearms confiscated in the Washington DC area are homemade. Ammunition does not take a rocket scientist to manufacture either. something terrorist could procure from Iraq as well. statement making lib |
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I think we should email bomb him with the facts. here is my letter to him:
Just read your sad piece on gun shows and terrorist. Have you given any thought to the possible outcome if law-abiding citizens had firearms aboard the terrorist's flights? Have you noticed that EVERY state that has tight gun laws have high crime rates while states with the most relaxed laws have the lowest crime rates? Hmmmm.. kinda makes you think... or does it? |
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UHHHHH?
(Pangea raises his hand in the back of the class) "If the terrorist weren't allowed to be in this country, then they couldn't buy guns at gun shows". |
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Oh, yeah. Stricter control at gun shows would have stopped those attacks COLD, boy!
HEEEEEELLLLLOOOOO!!!!!!! [stick] I can just picture it: Background checks and waiting periods in the hardware aisle at Home Depot! Well, the idiot lives in "Baaastin", anyway, so how smart can he possibly be? |
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Well, we were just waiting for this. Nobody surprised, right?
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Attorney General John Ashcroft, a progun fanatic... View Quote I love how everyone who's "progun" is some sort of fanatic to these people, even when it's our government officials! They'd probably shit their pants if they met some of the people around here... [;D] |
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Quoted: Attorney General John Ashcroft, a progun fanatic... View Quote I love how everyone who's "progun" is some sort of fanatic to these people, even when it's our government officials! They'd probably shit their pants if they met some of the people around here... [;D] View Quote [b]AMEN[/b] Brother! Bring 'em on! [devil] |
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