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Posted: 8/24/2001 8:29:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Barrett.
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Posted: 8/24/2001 8:31:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Define best.
Most accurate? Fastest to fire? Easiest to carry (Keep in mind 50's are HUGE!) Best bang for the $$$ ? |
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Posted: 8/24/2001 8:34:22 PM EDT
[#3]
I guess best all-around for price.
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Posted: 8/24/2001 8:37:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: I guess best all-around for price. Armalite AR50. For a production Grade .50, they are outstanding. After that, check out [url]www.statearms.com[/url] He (Klaus Horstkamp) built my .50, and it is a damn fine gun. But it is a target gun. It can hit a head at 1000 yards. The semi-auto 50's are for anti-material work, meaning hitting trucks at that distance and beyond. |
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Posted: 8/24/2001 8:49:41 PM EDT
[#5]
I have the Barret semiauto 82A1 [url]www.barrettrifles.com[/url]
I had a Windrunner 50 cal but sold it due to lack of dealer support. I liked the Barrett better anyway. Next 50 cal will be Barrett 95 or 99. More likely the 99 |
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Posted: 8/24/2001 9:22:30 PM EDT
[#6]
the barret m82a1 is the most baddassest .50, but at over a buck a pop, is a semi with 10 rd mag really the best. i wish i had one, but a ar59 would suit me fine.
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Posted: 8/24/2001 9:38:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Best .50 Rifle:
Accuracy--the Custom Benchrest guns for long range competetion. Cheap--The Ferrett or Watson's Upper for the AR. Firepower--Definitely the Barrett. One of the guys on the .50 board (the guy who wrote the book: Hard Target Interdiction, the complete .50 caliber snipers course) says that a repeater in a .50 "sniper" rifle is useless. Even with the slowest loading rifles, you have plenty of time to re-load before the bullet hits. I personally favor the State Arms guns--very solidly built and accurate. Next up would be the AMAC and Armalite guns--also very accurate. The Barrett M99 and M95 are OK, but not quite as accurate as the others. The Windrunner is accurate, but terribly expensive. EDM is making a single shot receiver for the .50 (the same people making the Windrunner), and you can get a complete Bolt gun assembled by a professional for under $3k depending on the options you go with. AFARR |
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Posted: 8/24/2001 9:50:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Oh yeah.
Someone ought to give a shout out to Mark Serbu. A lot of people are very happy with their Serbu 50's. THey aren't exactly Match grade guns, but they are solid as hell, and they are a .50. |
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Posted: 8/24/2001 10:39:12 PM EDT
[#9]
What about the .50 cal machine guns? I think they are designated M2's????? You can get a Semi-auto version too, delivered freight for 8-9k (think I saw that somewhere, with tripod included)
Steven L. just my .01 |
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Posted: 8/25/2001 4:34:24 AM EDT
[#10]
We should also recognize the Ferret50 - [url]http://ferret50.com/[/url]. It is very reasonably priced (~$1.5K) and fits on an existing AR-15 receiver (i.e. no paperwork on the .50). Musicman, if you're only talking price - the Ferret50 looks pretty good.
I have a Barrett M82 on the way (they're backordered for a few months). While I think it is "the ultimate," it has several drawbacks - cost ($7K+), accuracy (only guarantee 2MOA?), and did I mention COST?? However, they are very light (28.5 lbs. compared to 40-50 for most others), anti-material semi-auto (only one in it's class that I've seen), and have the lightest recoil of any .50 I've seen. If you've seen Barret M82's for $6K, they're probably used (often worn-out military versions being resold). The new ones are running at least $7K. You would be much better off shopping for a new one than gambling with a used one IMHO. The pressures and tolerances of a .50 are not to be played with... Black Fox |
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Posted: 8/25/2001 6:04:00 AM EDT
[#11]
I think the best bang for the buck as well as best compramise of durability/accuracy are the AR50 and the AMAC. The AMAC is a friggin beast of a gun.
BrenLover |
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Posted: 8/25/2001 9:41:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Dammit Blackfox, quit buying expensive toys. That is around 10 acres of gun you just purchased. [;)]
A .50 is another reason I want land.... or I'll just drive down to your property and shoot 50's. [:D] I'm waiting for Armalite to produce their AR50's in lefty. End of this year I've heard. |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 11:28:42 AM EDT
[#13]
the best buy for a real 50 is the Armalite 50. Great rifle, good customer service. Most people who don't own a 50 like the Barrett. The Barrett makes for a closed casket funeral if you have a kaboom. (which has happened!) I have a M82, but really favor the size and feel of the AR-50. The Barrett for me is more of a collectors item than a shooter.
It's all a moot point anyways. I am sure WHATEVER 50 you get, you are gonna love it. be sure to get a can of the API ammo from amoman.com before it's gone!!! AR50Troll |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 11:28:51 AM EDT
[#14]
the best buy for a real 50 is the Armalite 50. Great rifle, good customer service. Most people who don't own a 50 like the Barrett. The Barrett makes for a closed casket funeral if you have a kaboom. (which has happened!) I have a M82, but really favor the size and feel of the AR-50. The Barrett for me is more of a collectors item than a shooter.
It's all a moot point anyways. I am sure WHATEVER 50 you get, you are gonna love it. be sure to get a can of the API ammo from ammoman.com before it's gone!!! AR50Troll |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 11:48:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: It's all a moot point anyways. I am sure WHATEVER 50 you get, you are gonna love it. be sure to get a can of the API ammo from ammoman.com before it's gone!!! AR50Troll AR50Troll, I ordered some ammo from Eric a couple weeks ago and he said he did not have any API and couldn't get it. I checked his website after reading your post and it is not listed. Has something changed? I did order some spotter/tracers--very good stuff, especially in low light. I am new to the .50 game, but am really enjoying it so far. |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 12:41:14 PM EDT
[#16]
I guess he's out. He told me when it was gone, it was gone for good! Bummer.
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Posted: 8/27/2001 12:57:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: It's all a moot point anyways. I am sure WHATEVER 50 you get, you are gonna love it. be sure to get a can of the API ammo from ammoman.com before it's gone!!! AR50Troll AR50Troll, I ordered some ammo from Eric a couple weeks ago and he said he did not have any API and couldn't get it. I checked his website after reading your post and it is not listed. Has something changed? I did order some spotter/tracers--very good stuff, especially in low light. I am new to the .50 game, but am really enjoying it so far. Check Eric's website again. It is listed. I seem to remember getting a listbot mail a few days ago, he was clearing out the last of it. |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 1:40:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Least we forget the most versital 50 cal is the M2HB.
1) The barrel can be used as a deadly weapon on its own. Looks a lot like a bat when off the gun. 2) Accidently drop this sucker on you foot, broken foot. 3) Accidently working on the inside with the bolt held back it releases and mashes your fingers 4) its heavy with the tripod, possible hernia 5) Unlimited ammo capacity. Keep all that ammo linked together. 6) after firing unlimited ammo you have a very hot barrel See, the deadliest 50 cal available. [:D] |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 1:57:16 PM EDT
[#19]
sorry AR50troll,
You know not of what you speak. "Closed casket funeral" What a crock! We've had 2 seperate 82A1's come back because of operator error. The build of the rifle is what kept the shooter from being hurt. The construction keeps all parts interlocked. The 2 rifles were incorrectly re-assembled by inexperianced shooters. The worse that happened was the extractor blew out the ejection port and imbedded into the instructors arm. We have the rifles in house. All damage was contained by the reciever. "Close casket funeral" LOL! |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 1:59:12 PM EDT
[#20]
I am still on the fence as to what to get. I have narrowed it down to the Serbu or AR-50. The Barrets are too expensive for mere mortals like me, and all semi's are out. I don't want to remove the bolt to chamber a round, and AR lowers in the PRK are a problem.
musicman, remember to add in the cost of a scope, bi-pod and ammo. That could easily add $1000 depending on what you get. |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 2:06:24 PM EDT
[#21]
If you want the best accuracy, finish and overall good shtf rifle, go with a Robar - it's guaranteeded to shoot 0.5 MOA. A McMillian/McBros is also guaranteeded to shoot 0.5 MOA, but it takes over a year to get one and it does not have as good a quality finish as the NP3 and Roguard of the Robar. A Barrett is the best semi-auto, but it'll only shoot somewhere between 3 and 6 MOA - a 60 inch group at a 1000 yrds is certainly good enough to shoot vehicles but not much else.
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Posted: 8/27/2001 3:25:37 PM EDT
[#22]
AILapua: I would hope so, at $10K+ a pop!
[img]http://www.accuracyinternational.com/_borders/AWM50.jpg[/img] [url]www.accuracyinternational.com[/url] It'll be a little while until I will be able to afford one...[;D] Semper Fi! Ken Little (Edited to format screen) |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 3:52:35 PM EDT
[#23]
AR50Troll - the name kind of seems appropriate...
Just for the record, from Armalite and Barrett websites: [b]Armalite AR-50[/b] OVERALL LENGTH: 59 INCHES WEIGHT: 34 POUNDS Does not disassemble? (my guess) Felt Recoil: 50-60 foot pounds? (from other website) No info on accuracy at website? Would imagine 1-1.5 MOA? [b]Barrett M82A1[/b] Rifle Weight: 28.5 pounds (12.9 kg) Overall Length: 57 inches (144.78 cm) Disassembled Length: 38 inches (96.52 cm) The Model 82A1 accuracy is generally 1.5 to 2.0 MOA or better. Felt Recoil: 25.9 foot pounds Ergonomics are completely subjective. If you had both of these rifles, though, the Barrett certainly seems easier to deal with to me based on the numbers - easier to haul (~1/2 as long, 5+ lbs lighter) and shoot (LESS than 1/2 recoil). Just my $.50. Black Fox |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 4:19:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: The Windrunner is accurate, but terribly expensive. EDM is making a single shot receiver for the .50 (the same people making the Windrunner), and you can get a complete Bolt gun assembled by a professional for under $3k depending on the options you go with. Run... run far, far away! |
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Posted: 8/27/2001 10:10:32 PM EDT
[#25]
The Ferret 50 upper uses an 18" barrel...is that too short for good .50cal accuracy & velocity? I have been thinking about getting one, but am leaning twards the 30" upper instead. ??
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Posted: 8/28/2001 2:23:48 AM EDT
[#26]
I sent an e-mail to Dave, maker of the Ferret50, a few weeks ago. Here is his response about barrel length and accuracy:
"Accuracy from the 18" barrel is .5MOA at 300yd. I will be testing further next week. It is a matter of finding time to test. I have yet to test accuracy with the 36" barrel. I am offering the longer barrel due to many requests. Personally I like the 18" better. Velocity is 2500fps for 18" barrel and 2750 for 36" barrel. I will say that the 18" will be more accurate due to a short rigid barrel. And it is still effective out past 1500yd." Black Fox |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 7:33:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: sorry AR50troll, You know not of what you speak. "Closed casket funeral" What a crock! We've had 2 seperate 82A1's come back because of operator error. The build of the rifle is what kept the shooter from being hurt. The construction keeps all parts interlocked. The 2 rifles were incorrectly re-assembled by inexperianced shooters. The worse that happened was the extractor blew out the ejection port and imbedded into the instructors arm. We have the rifles in house. All damage was contained by the reciever. "Close casket funeral" LOL! Uhhh OK 50Cal. You can have the hot extractor burried in your arm with the powder burns on the face. I will stick with the bolt action AR50. Thanks anyways Now relax... |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 7:41:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: AR50Troll - the name kind of seems appropriate... Just for the record, from Armalite and Barrett websites: [b]Armalite AR-50[/b] OVERALL LENGTH: 59 INCHES WEIGHT: 34 POUNDS Does not disassemble? (my guess) Felt Recoil: 50-60 foot pounds? (from other website) No info on accuracy at website? Would imagine 1-1.5 MOA? [b]Barrett M82A1[/b] Rifle Weight: 28.5 pounds (12.9 kg) Overall Length: 57 inches (144.78 cm) Disassembled Length: 38 inches (96.52 cm) The Model 82A1 accuracy is generally 1.5 to 2.0 MOA or better. Felt Recoil: 25.9 foot pounds Ergonomics are completely subjective. If you had both of these rifles, though, the Barrett certainly seems easier to deal with to me based on the numbers - easier to haul (~1/2 as long, 5+ lbs lighter) and shoot (LESS than 1/2 recoil). Just my $.50. Black Fox Stock does remove from AR50 making it about 15 inches shorter. You can thank your trusty moderator for the name. You Barrett guys need to reeeelllaaaxxxx. Musicman asked a subjective question. I gave him a subjective answer. Just because I prefer my AR over my Barrett doesn't mean I hate Barrett or am insinuating they are a POS. I simply prefer to not have 760 grains or so going off under my eye as well as the abundance of exhaust gases in the face. Sure when I want to "get my gun off" I take the Barrett. But for a bench gun, the AR50 simply works better for me. Hey Black Fox. I don't know if you believe that crap, but the AR50 has much less recoil than the 82. I don't care what the website says. Next time your in Houston I will show you if you like. AR50Troll |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 8:34:44 AM EDT
[#29]
[img]www.specialoperations.com/Images_Folder/library2/ag90p71.jpg[/img]
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Posted: 8/28/2001 1:15:05 PM EDT
[#30]
I have a question that is not intended as a flame.
Let me start with stating that several customers have asked for numbers equating to the recoil of the Ferret50. I see above that BlackFox has posted info from another site on felt recoil measured in foot pounds. I don't doubt that other manufacturers do post such info as I have seen it. I would like to know on what device is recoil or felt recoil measured? And how does foot pounds relate to real world terms? Meaning, how is a customer supposed to translate a measurement for torque into how much recoil he is going to feel? If there is no such device in existence to measure recoil, I do have an idea. I just might build a device that will measure recoil in psi over time in graph form. If a person could see a graph that would show increase and decrease of psi along a time line (divided by the area of the buttpad), we would get a good idea of what is going on. This would help in the development of 50BMG rifle designs as well as muzzle brake designs, with an objective of producing an overall easier shooting rifle. Dave |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 1:33:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Yo Dave, See FCSA Very High Power...
1995 #1 1995 #2 1996 #2 Good articles on pendulem testing the 50BMG and assorted muzzle brk's for actual recoil... |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 1:45:35 PM EDT
[#32]
AR50Troll - thanks for the info. Sorry, but one must wonder about someone who refers to themselves as a troll... Appreciate the offer to try an AR-50. If I'm ever in the neighborhood... I do tend to believe numbers over subjective impressions, but they both have value. I certainly agree with your statement that both styles of rifle have their value.
Dave - I've done some work in a wind tunnel testing lift, drag, etc. There are great devices to measure the forces from a small, central pivot point and extrapolate these quantities into force and torque measurements. It could definitely be done, although it's not simple. Hope you don't mind me responding to questions about the Ferret50 - wasn't sure if you were here often, and was trying to be helpful. I'm looking forward to seeing them myself. Black Fox |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 1:56:25 PM EDT
[#33]
OK
This is the Facts Best Full auto BrowningM2 Semi Barrett 82A1 Bolt Iver Johnson-Haskins cpermd I will kick your ass on Main Street if you say otherwise cpermd |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 2:12:27 PM EDT
[#34]
We use a pendulum test fixture to check recoil on different modifications of brakes. We only use bolt action rifles as a test comparison. The M95 will recoil about 40" without the brake. With the arrowhead brake on the rifle will swing only 21", similar to the Rem 700 300 Win Mag we use as a base comparator. The 700 is the heavy barrel PSS version.
Our M99 single shot only goes about 17", the heavier longer barrel keeps a lot of the recoil in check. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 12:48:48 PM EDT
[#35]
BlackFox- I don't mind that you talk about the Ferret50, rather I appreciate it.
So, there is such a device. Ill have to do some reading on it. Thanks for the info. Humm, I wonder where I could gain access to one, and get some recoil data on the Ferret50? Dave |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 1:35:50 PM EDT
[#36]
I know a guy in AZ that has a McBros .50bmg 5 round mag bolt action. Are those any good?
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:14:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: AR50Troll - thanks for the info. Sorry, but one must wonder about someone who refers to themselves as a troll . . . As long as he hasn't responded to this, I will point out his name was "AR50Guy". He got into a pissing match with another member (who is also a Mod) who called him "AR50Troll", so he changed his name to that. The smoke has cleared, both are still standing, but the name has stuck, at least so far. I am not sure who pissed higher up the wall. [:D] He seems to be very knowledgeable, so I would take his advice seriously, name notwithstanding. Just trying to help. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 4:26:24 PM EDT
[#38]
I am in no way or form an expert in this (or very much anything else for that matter), but I sure as hell want an AR-50 over a Barrett (IMVHO).
I had a chance to buy one, but I opted to purchase my first Preban AR-15 with 4 out of 5 "evil" features. I'm happy, but that still doesn't mean I don't want the AR-50. And that's $0.02 you can take to the bank. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 5:14:10 PM EDT
[#39]
You all forgot the best "The CVA Hawken" muzzle loader.
GG |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#40]
In Special Weapons for Military and Police magazine the fall 2001 issue the Armalite AR-50 was tested using the Armalite IOR Valdada scope and HSM 750 grain match ammo, that is recomended by Armalite.
At 100 yards the average group size was 1.36". At 300 yards the group size was 3.72" |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 9:25:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: The Windrunner is accurate, but terribly expensive. EDM is making a single shot receiver for the .50 (the same people making the Windrunner), and you can get a complete Bolt gun assembled by a professional for under $3k depending on the options you go with. Run... run far, far away! What problems have you had with EDM? I was shocked at how good the customer service was from them. I had a hangfire and brought the gun back to the dealer. The dealer called the owner of EDM, then handed the phone to me, and I explained what happened. He said to leave the gun with the dealer, and he'd have a brand new one there in couple days. Problem solved with no hassle whatsoever. |
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