I attempted to bring my Walther P99 .40 with me from my parents house in Southern California to my residence in Oklahoma.  I also attempted to bring an AR upper with me as well.

The Walther was locked with a cable lock, and all three magazines were empty, and in the original case, which was also locked.

The bolt carrier assembly from the AR upper was also in the handgun case.

There was ZERO ammunition in my possession or in my suitcase.

The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".  www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml
(I copied these to the bottom of the post for your convenience.)


The immediate TSA person (took about 20 mins to finally talk to me) had no clue of their regulations, so I produced Frontier Airline's policy, as well as TSA's policy.  I asked for her supervisor, and spoke with him.  It took him about 20 minutes to finally talk to me.  He was dressed in a suit and tie, and he was supposedly the TSA director from Los Angeles International Airport.  Yeah right.

I produced the regulations and showed him.  I printed the sheet off two hours prior to checking in.

According to him:
There is an unavailable (to me) policy that says firearm parts must also be in a locked container.  It is strictly on a need to know basis because it is a "secret policy".  I asked to speak to his supervisor and he told me no.  I said, no, you get him here, right now.  He said, he isn't working today.  I said, okay, well, you call him.  I know you have his number, and I would like to speak to him now.  He would not give me his supervisor's name OR contact information.  Complete Bullshit.

He only provided an 800 number to file a complaint.

I asked to see this policy, in ink, that says my rifle barrel (which is rendered inoperative with no bolt carrier assembly OR LOWER RECEIVER!!!) must be in a locked container.  

What PISSES me off is that no one that worked for TSA at LAX knew their OWN regulations on transporting firearms/firearm parts.  I did my homework before hand by bringing the airline's policy as well as TSA's "policy".  What also pisses me off is that I feel that the TSA agent let his personal feelings get in the way and made up his own policy.  

He made no attempt to produce a container for me (its not my job if the website doesn't require it, but from now on, I will do this if I transport ANY firearm part).

What also pisses me off is that I asked for his supervisor and he wouldn't provide any information on his supervisor (no name or number).

This whole process took just over an hour.  Frontier Airlines was very accomodating.  Their baggage agent was very courteous, and had no problem with the barrel.  In fact, he took personal possession of the barrel while my stepdad and mom came back for it.  He deserves a promotion for going above and beyond.  

TSA is a federal entity and therefore should have all policies available to the public.  It isn't up to their employees to exercise personal discretion on what can and can not go on an airplane.  There has to be a regulation in black and white.  Everything in the government is in black and white.  I want to see this man get fired.  Total scumbag.

I'll write update more later, I'm tired.  The handgun made it safely to Oklahoma.

Anyways, if you bring a firearm part, I suggest you lock it in a case, to save you the hassle.  Even though it isn't even required to declare, just play it safe.

TSA policy on firearms:
Travelers & Consumers  Printable Version  
Transporting Special Items  
 
Transporting Firearms and Ammunition

Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.  

There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEOs) who are authorized to fly armed by meeting the requirements of 49 CFR § 1544.219.

Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage:

All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.  
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked.
It is preferred that the passenger provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the screener must open the container, the TSA and/or airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the passenger.  If this is unsuccessful, the container will not be placed on the plane since unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) are not permitted on aircraft due to Federal regulations.  
Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above.
Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.

The regulations are strictly enforced.  Violations can result in criminal prosecution and the imposition of civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.  

Air carriers may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition an individual may place in checked baggage.  Therefore, travelers should also contact the air carrier regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.

My experience with the TSA people at both Dallas airports (DFW & Love Field) has been pretty neutral.  However, these people seem to be the poorest of the poor ghetto denizens.  We are talking half teeth gold, the other half missing, outrageous made up names, and foul stench.  All are a step down from typical Jerry Springer guests.  I thought putting NG troops in airport terminals was the best post 9/11 change, but that only lasted for 6 months IIRC.  TSA is a joke, they aren’t going to prevent anything.  

that sucks...I got stopped for 3 hours, checked over by five personnel plus manager person THREE times...then when i complained about being held up for 3 hours, they threatened to strip search me......fucking idiots...i had 2 zippo lighters, no lighter fluid...in my checked baggage....which was ALLOWED...but they didnt like the idea...had to chuck the innards of the zippos...(bringbacks from Germany)....


also, finally got through...then a 14 year old looking white trash TSA guy asks me questions..one of which is "what KIND of illegal drugs do you have on you?" ....my reply was "im not a foreigner that you can trick...I dont have ANY ILLEGAL DRUGS with me"  such idiots, i didnt feel like being held up again lol

TSA in Burbank spent 50 minutes running my laptop bag thru the x-ray.

Then they would search thru the pockets pulling stuff out, then putting it back in... and x-ray again ( repeat ).

They could not grasp the concept that not all my Cell phone batteries were the same model - so one unit had a different number of cells in it...

Took 4 different Screener agents before one got a clue...

I did not miss my flight since I came 4 hrs early (just because of this type of BS).

Oh yeah that "secret policy" your guy was refering to was part of the Patriot act's BS clause - "We can make up new classified rules as we go along."

Oh, I'm a military officer and I was in civilian business attire.  

Quoted: Oh, I'm a military officer and I was in civilian business attire.

Did you have your mil ID with you?  I know at my job (I'm a 19 year old college student - work in retail) when I ask for ID for CC transactions, I am always extra accommodating to people with mil or PD IDs.

Quoted: Quoted: Oh, I'm a military officer and I was in civilian business attire.   Did you have your mil ID with you?  I know at my job (I'm a 19 year old college student - work in retail) when I ask for ID for CC transactions, I am always extra accommodating to people with mil or PD IDs.

It never leaves my possession, ever.  And I always show it at airports.  

I don't think that is correct.


A lawyer who teaches some gun course I take, got popped for having gun parts too - though it wasn't the locked issue, just that they were undeclared.


He's going to own their ass in court

I've crawled all over 14 CFR 1544, which is basically TSA's policy on "AIRCRAFT OPERATOR SECURITY: AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS"

www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/49cfr1544_05.html

14CFR1540-1562 deal with this "stuff."  

1544.203 paragraph f   and 1544.111 paragraph c, subsection ii    both have references to firearms AND ammunition, but no references to firearm PARTS.

I've been on the phone with TSA and the Dept of Transportation, and no one seems to know either.  

More to come.

Edit-

Quoted: I don't think that is correct. A lawyer who teaches some gun course I take, got popped for having gun parts too - though it wasn't the locked issue, just that they were undeclared. He's going to own their ass in court

No mention anywhere that I've come across that firearm PARTS must be declared either.

Doesn't surprise me that no one at TSA knows the policy, sounds to me like each person kind of makes up the policy as they encounter different situtations.

The real reason air travel is down post 9/11.

Write your elected representatives, tell them what happend and ask them to look into it for you.  The TSA does have to answer to Congress and no government agency likes it when a representative starts nosing around asking questions.  That's the only way you are going to get someone to actually look into this for you.

I, for one, rest easy at night knowing firearm barrells aren't out terrorizing the skies.  

Quoted: The real reason air travel is down post 9/11.

All.
Because.
Of......

Federal
Aviation and
Transport
Agency for
Security and
Safety.

Because...totalitarianism makes everybody f e e l  safer......

Quoted: Oh, I'm a military officer and I was in civilian business attire.

And that means squat to them.  

I'm a bit surprised that you (being an occifer and all) would cary gun parts in your luggage and expect a clean bill of health at the terminal.  Had they just let it pass and you were short an upper when you reached OK, what would you have done?    

Matthew

At LAX ask to speak to the FBI agent in charge.  There is at least one agent on site almost all the time.  They are almost always helpful in situations like that, especially if you keep your cool and are polite.  

My full name with a Canadian passport was on the no-fly list as it was used by a AQ lieutenant (now deceased ) so I was having a hard time flying in and out of SoCal when I lived there until the LAX agents helped me.   The Agent in Charge is also called an Ombudsman and he fixed things fast for me.  The Agent/Ombudsman out of SEA is really nice too - She's helped a lot when TSA doesn't update their files or just generally screws up.

Quoted: Quoted: Oh, I'm a military officer and I was in civilian business attire.   And that means squat to them.   I'm a bit surprised that you (being an occifer and all) would cary gun parts in your luggage and expect a clean bill of health at the terminal.  Had they just let it pass and you were short an upper when you reached OK, what would you have done?     Matthew

I'm surprised you are questionining my thought process with bringing "gun parts" in my luggage.   I have every legal right to carry firearm parts within my checked baggage.  The airline nor TSA have written policy that says firearm parts are prohibited or are required to be carried in a locked and hard sided case.  Go pound sand.  

If I was short an upper?  That would entail filing a claim.  Frontier Airlines insures baggage up to $2,800.  Anything more than that and you can buy additional insurance.  That's fresh off their website.  www.frontierairlines.com/faq/index.asp#DB

Prior to 9/11 Treetop was not allowed to bring a wooden AK buttstock on a plane in his carryon. To top that off, they wouldnt even let him bring his fire on the plane either.

Funny, when i camer back from Knob Creek a coupld of years ago, I had a compelte upper, bolt included, in my checked duffel bag. I told the ticekt counter chick what was in it, in case they wanted to have a look see, ahe said they would notify the baggage screeners. When i arrived at LAX, I picked up my bag and off I went into society with my firearm parts. WhenI ot home and unpacked, a tag was in it notifiying me that the screeners had searched and examined my bag. No sweat. Was the bag locked ? Nope, had to be unlocked for the screeners.  This was a canvas bag.

Like you said, that head TSA guy was a dick and needs a complaint filed against him. If for no other reason, make him uncomfortable for an hour.

Quoted: I'm surprised you are questionining my thought process with bringing "gun parts" in my luggage.   I have every legal right to carry firearm parts within my checked baggage.  The airline nor TSA have written policy that says firearm parts are prohibited or are required to be carried in a locked and hard sided case.  Go pound sand.

Why the surprise?  When you are standing in the corral at the terminal, you are totally at the mercy of the idiot with the badge.  Given the current state of affairs, what else did you expect?  Sure, you have legal right.  Look how far that got you.  


 

When coming back from Baton Rouge, I had 6 Bic lighters in my checked baggage, along with 2 knives, a box of ammo (declared), a bunch of AA batteries, and various other items. I put the Bic lighters in my check baggage because you cannot have them in your carry on.

I get home, and the ammo, knives, batteries, and other sundry items were still there, but my lighters were gone.

THat pissed me off, because they are allowed to be in your checked baggage.

Quoted: The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".  www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml (I copied these to the bottom of the post for your convenience.) TSA policy on firearms: Travelers & Consumers  Printable Version   Transporting Special Items     Transporting Firearms and Ammunition Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.   There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEOs) who are authorized to fly armed by meeting the requirements of 49 CFR § 1544.219. Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage: All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.   The firearm must be unloaded. The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container. The container must be locked. It is preferred that the passenger provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the screener must open the container, the TSA and/or airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the passenger.  If this is unsuccessful, the container will not be placed on the plane since unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) are not permitted on aircraft due to Federal regulations.   Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard). The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above. Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage. The regulations are strictly enforced.  Violations can result in criminal prosecution and the imposition of civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.   Air carriers may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition an individual may place in checked baggage.  Therefore, travelers should also contact the air carrier regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.

It is understood by most airline and TSA personnel that any portion of a firearm (magazine, barrel, or otherwise) is to be treated as a fully functional and complete firearm.  And further the firearm must be in its own hard-sided and lockable container. (this does not include your suitcase however you can put the locked firearm container in your suitcase as you did with your pistol.  While I have sympathy for you in your situation,  It only makes sense to have a firearm or parts of a firearm in a disassembled state in a locked separate container.  And even from the rules you posted from TSA you should have had a container for your upper.

Feel free to thank the Bush admin for your experience with the TSA, next time vote Libertarian and maybe we can have a shot at freedom in this country.

TSA and the airlines are a bunch of morons.  I have trouble on almost every trip I go on (I travel ALOT,) and I'm an agent of the govt traveling armed.  The incompetence I see at airports everyday is staggering.  With the trouble I have, I can't imagine what you guys go through trying to get through the security line.

Do what you will, but when I travel with firearms they are in a locked case I declare at the airline ticket window.

Didn't TSA have a bunch of felons and illegal invaders in their first batch of employees?

Thieves
Screwing
Americans

Quoted: Feel free to thank the Bush admin for your experience with the TSA, next time vote Libertarian and maybe we can have a shot at freedom in this country.

No, I think the thanks go to Mohammed and his buddies.  Thanks go to Bush for the half-asssed, half-baked response.

I agree with most of what's been said about TSA. Believe me, I've had my share of hassles.  I can see what they are concerned about though, upper in the case, bolt in this case, lower in that case, no complete weapons, so no locks needed, etc....

Quoted: The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".

Its guys like you who push the envelope  of existing policy that cause regulations to be written to the most minute level possible because someone like you will try to do an end run around the rules and try to say that because its not a complete weapon that its just parts and not covered under their current policy.

Quoted: Quoted: The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".  www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml (I copied these to the bottom of the post for your convenience.) TSA policy on firearms: Travelers & Consumers  Printable Version   Transporting Special Items     Transporting Firearms and Ammunition Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.   There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEOs) who are authorized to fly armed by meeting the requirements of 49 CFR § 1544.219. Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage: All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.   The firearm must be unloaded. The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container. The container must be locked. It is preferred that the passenger provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the screener must open the container, the TSA and/or airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the passenger.  If this is unsuccessful, the container will not be placed on the plane since unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) are not permitted on aircraft due to Federal regulations.   Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard). The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above. Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage. The regulations are strictly enforced.  Violations can result in criminal prosecution and the imposition of civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.   Air carriers may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition an individual may place in checked baggage.  Therefore, travelers should also contact the air carrier regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies. It is understood by most airline and TSA personnel that any portion of a firearm (magazine, barrel, or otherwise) is to be treated as a fully functional and complete firearm. And further the firearm must be in its own hard-sided and lockable container. (this does not include your suitcase however you can put the locked firearm container in your suitcase as you did with your pistol.  While I have sympathy for you in your situation,  It only makes sense to have a firearm or parts of a firearm in a disassembled state in a locked separate container.  And even from the rules you posted from TSA you should have had a container for your upper.

Really? Ok then, fine. How about they update their respective websites to let the rest of us(their customers) know that. Are we supposed to be mind readers? An upper by it self, is not a firearm.

Quoted: Quoted: The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".   Its guys like you who push the envelope  of existing policy that cause regulations to be written to the most minute level possible because someone like you will try to do an end run around the rules and try to say that because its not a complete weapon that its just parts and not covered under their current policy.

All they need to do is add, "and any parts thereof". There, no confusion for anyone, easily understood rules.

The rules for firearms travel are still the original ones, pre-9/11, pre-TSA.  Where most of the requirements are left up to the airline, because the original intent of the law was just to make sure firearms and/or ammunition would not fire/detonate in flight and damage the plane.  It had nothing to do with hijackings or terrorism.

They probably should rewrite the rules to include all firearms parts in the locked case as opposed to just firearms.  And you should always check with the airline about travel with firearms/parts before you fly with firearms as each airline can have different rules as well as airports.

The only fear I have is if they decide to rewrite those rules, they will throw in more nonsense and make flying with firearms impractical.

Oddly, BWI has always been the easiest airport for me to deal with at the counter and with the TSA deal with regards to firearms for me.  No reaction at all when I open the cases at the ticket counter, and they usually have the firearms tag that you sign ready at the counter, no searching for one.  And the TSA there has never opened my bags or cases.  They just ask how many guns and what types, then run all of my luggage through the machine next, no waiting like I've experienced at other airports.

I've had no problems with the TSA and guns at most airports. My problem with them is the measures that they use are an expensive joke.

I would identify the TSA agent in charge, use public records to pull his boss, his bosses boss, etc. up the line and  complain to every one of them. cc: your congress critters. Make a big stink. You should be able to do a mail merge and research in an hour. If they don't respond, keep at it. Eventually they will respond.

Quoted: The rules for firearms travel are still the original ones, pre-9/11, pre-TSA.  Where most of the requirements are left up to the airline, because the original intent of the law was just to make sure firearms and/or ammunition would not fire/detonate in flight and damage the plane.  It had nothing to do with hijackings or terrorism. They probably should rewrite the rules to include all firearms parts in the locked case as opposed to just firearms.  And you should always check with the airline about travel with firearms/parts before you fly with firearms as each airline can have different rules as well as airports. The only fear I have is if they decide to rewrite those rules, they will throw in more nonsense and make flying with firearms impractical. Oddly, BWI has always been the easiest airport for me to deal with at the counter and with the TSA deal with regards to firearms for me.  No reaction at all when I open the cases at the ticket counter, and they usually have the firearms tag that you sign ready at the counter, no searching for one.  And the TSA there has never opened my bags or cases.  They just ask how many guns and what types, then run all of my luggage through the machine next, no waiting like I've experienced at other airports.

Actually, the CFR (under Title 49) was last revised Oct 1, 2005. (www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfr-table-search.html#page1)

And let me reiterate, Frontier Airlines had no problem whatsoever with the AR upper.  It was SOLEY TSA that made an issue of it.  I called the airline before the trip and they said it would be okay.


Slight update:  I talked with a security specialist of TSA that works at their headquarters.  He stated that a firearm barrel should not be a problem based on the information I presented, and that would not need to be transported in a locked hard sided case.   All I need is that in writing.

I will provide his name to the Los Angeles TSA and have them have a chit-chat.  I think I'll call my congressman, too.

TSAs "policy" on their website makes no mention that firearm parts must be in a hard locked container.  It says only firearms must be packed in that manner.

Quoted: Quoted: The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".  www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml (I copied these to the bottom of the post for your convenience.) TSA policy on firearms: Travelers & Consumers  Printable Version   Transporting Special Items     Transporting Firearms and Ammunition Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.   There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEOs) who are authorized to fly armed by meeting the requirements of 49 CFR § 1544.219. Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage: All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.   The firearm must be unloaded. The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container. The container must be locked. It is preferred that the passenger provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the screener must open the container, the TSA and/or airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the passenger.  If this is unsuccessful, the container will not be placed on the plane since unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) are not permitted on aircraft due to Federal regulations.   Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard). The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above. Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage. The regulations are strictly enforced.  Violations can result in criminal prosecution and the imposition of civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.   Air carriers may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition an individual may place in checked baggage.  Therefore, travelers should also contact the air carrier regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies. It is understood by most airline and TSA personnel that any portion of a firearm (magazine, barrel, or otherwise) is to be treated as a fully functional and complete firearm.  And further the firearm must be in its own hard-sided and lockable container. (this does not include your suitcase however you can put the locked firearm container in your suitcase as you did with your pistol.  While I have sympathy for you in your situation,  It only makes sense to have a firearm or parts of a firearm in a disassembled state in a locked separate container.  And even from the rules you posted from TSA you should have had a container for your upper.

No, the rules that I posted which came from the TSA website said FIREARMS must be locked in a hard case.  It never said "FIREARM PARTS must be locked in a hard case."

All it said about firearm parts is that they may only be transported in checked baggage.

Quoted: I get home, and the ammo, knives, batteries, and other sundry items were still there, but my lighters were gone. THat pissed me off, because they are allowed to be in your checked baggage.

Nope, lighters and matches are NOT allowed in your checked baggage.

Kharn

Quoted: Quoted: I get home, and the ammo, knives, batteries, and other sundry items were still there, but my lighters were gone. THat pissed me off, because they are allowed to be in your checked baggage. Nope, lighters and matches are NOT allowed in your checked baggage. Kharn

I used to load Delta airliners before 9/11/01. We were told that anything capable of rapid combustion or corrosion was not allowed. Think about what happened to Valujet when they put oxygen generators in the cargo bay.

Quoted: Quoted: The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".   Its guys like you who push the envelope  of existing policy that cause regulations to be written to the most minute level possible because someone like you will try to do an end run around the rules and try to say that because its not a complete weapon that its just parts and not covered under their current policy.

Guys like me, huh?

A firearm part is inherently safe.  There is no reason it should be scrutinzed MORE than a complete firearm.

So I guess if you bring plastic handguards on a plane, you'll be sure to lock them in a plastic case within your checked baggage?

The point of my post is that there is NO FEDERAL REGULATION on firearm PARTS.  Why should one person at TSA be able to make judgement on something that isn't regulated?    According to their website, firearm parts need only be packed within your checked baggage.  Plain and simple.

this is why i stopped flying all together.  the last time i was on a plane was in early 2002 while going to hawaii.  it was complete hell.  every person in my family was searched...  we switched planes several times, so we were searched 3 times each on the way there, and 5 times each on the way back.  random searches my fucking ass.   oh, and it took about 30 hours to get back home

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I get home, and the ammo, knives, batteries, and other sundry items were still there, but my lighters were gone. THat pissed me off, because they are allowed to be in your checked baggage. Nope, lighters and matches are NOT allowed in your checked baggage. Kharn I used to load Delta airliners before 9/11/01. We were told that anything capable of rapid combustion or corrosion was not allowed. Think about what happened to Valujet when they put oxygen generators in the cargo bay.

Well then, compressed gasses should not be allowed (like shaving cream), clothes (they can burn rapidly), and a whole host of other things.


TSA needs to be scrapped.

Quoted: Now you've been put on their secret list which they will share with others.

"Delta House....you are now on....double secret probation....."

Quoted: Quoted: The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".   Its guys like you who push the envelope  of existing policy that cause regulations to be written to the most minute level possible because someone like you will try to do an end run around the rules and try to say that because its not a complete weapon that its just parts and not covered under their current policy.

="Eeff eet iss not strictly permitted, zen it is zerefore forbidden!"

What is this, the Soviet Union?

You committed the one unpardonable sin.

You challenged a Federal Employee's Authoritah.

Disband the TSA and Homeland Security.  It's much ado about nothing and the federalization of incompetents.

TSA is made up of a bunch of retards. They dont do shit

Flew to a civilian field once(will remain unamed) to pick up a SEAL team.  I and the rest of the aircrew in flightsuits walk into a very busy terminal.  Treated great by TSA.  Were allowed to bypass all screens and the team was seated with their gear and in civilian clothes.  A couple had shotguns strapped to their gear.  We all walked out to the bird bypassing all security screens.  But then again, they would have been in a world of shit if the delayed us and the team..


Nothing tops the time I was on orders and traveling US Airways to DFW.  Philly Intl I did curbside checkin.  Bagage handler says to immediately..  "I expect an adequate tip or your bags will be lost."  If I wasnt on orders I would have started shit right there.  Shortly after they all walked off their jobs.

And yes TSA is a joke.

Quoted: When coming back from Baton Rouge, I had 6 Bic lighters in my checked baggage, along with 2 knives, a box of ammo (declared), a bunch of AA batteries, and various other items. I put the Bic lighters in my check baggage because you cannot have them in your carry on. I get home, and the ammo, knives, batteries, and other sundry items were still there, but my lighters were gone. THat pissed me off, because they are allowed to be in your checked baggage.

Lighters with unabsorbed liquid fuel have always been banned.  It just wasn't always enforced in the past.

Quoted:It is understood by most airline and TSA personnel that any portion of a firearm (magazine, barrel, or otherwise) is to be treated as a fully functional and complete firearm.  And further the firearm must be in its own hard-sided and lockable container.


Oh, you mean a "Steal Me First" box?

Quoted: this is why i stopped flying all together.  the last time i was on a plane was in early 2002 while going to hawaii.  it was complete hell.  every person in my family was searched...  we switched planes several times, so we were searched 3 times each on the way there, and 5 times each on the way back.  random searches my fucking ass.   oh, and it took about 30 hours to get back home

Still beats the drive to Hawaii.

I'm betting in "unintended consequences 2" that the TSA will be the agency Henry Bowman takes care of.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The bare AR upper was in my suitcase.  TSA didn't like this apparently.  According to their rules, it says nothing of "firearms parts must be in a locked container".   Its guys like you who push the envelope  of existing policy that cause regulations to be written to the most minute level possible because someone like you will try to do an end run around the rules and try to say that because its not a complete weapon that its just parts and not covered under their current policy. Guys like me, huh? A firearm part is inherently safe.  There is no reason it should be scrutinzed MORE than a complete firearm. So I guess if you bring plastic handguards on a plane, you'll be sure to lock them in a plastic case within your checked baggage? The point of my post is that there is NO FEDERAL REGULATION on firearm PARTS.  Why should one person at TSA be able to make judgement on something that isn't regulated?    According to their website, firearm parts need only be packed within your checked baggage.  Plain and simple.

So where does the definition of "parts" end? Missing one part, two parts or three parts to make it a working firearm? Parts should be treated the same as a whole weapon, and as some people have noted, thats the way it IS viewed. As I said, its guys like you who want to argue whether parts = a whole gun that will get regulations micromanaged and written to the greatest detail possible every time..