You guys know that illegals and their families are now eligible for social security benefits, right?

I have been posting about the totalization agreement for about a year now

IIRC I have only seen a dozen or so posts responding to this FACT.............

I was just wondering if that "little detail" is being missed in the tons of articles about illegals that I post

They are coming here to take the jobs the Americans dont want to do.


That includes rape, murder, drugs, and mooching off the government.
Bush is the best Presend that Mexico has ever had.   His pandering to them at the expense of the Security and Economic Welfare of the United States is certainly not bordering on Treasonous.

Quoted: They are coming here to take the jobs the Americans dont want to do. That includes rape, murder, drugs, and mooching off the government.

This is what I am talking about
NO ONE seems to comment on the LUNACY of providing.............
SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS FOR ILLEGALS AND THEIR FAMILIES, INCLUDING DISABILITY FOR THE ONES IN MEXICO

Quoted: You guys know that illegals and their families are now eligible for social security benefits, right?

And exactly how can they draw SS unless they've been employed in jobs that withhold SS ?  Which would mean they are in an above-the-table job, something many of the anti-immigration types claim isn't the norm. If someone is paying into SS, they should be able to draw from SS.

Seems kinda unfair since I'm a legal immigrant and I'm not eligible until I contribute for 40 quarters, or ten years.

I watched a news rag show recently that showed a guy IN mexico. He said he was born in the USA, and that his parents were illegal, but since he was born here he had a SS card. He RENTED his number to illegals, then he got tax returns at the end of the year.

Quoted: Quoted: You guys know that illegals and their families are now eligible for social security benefits, right? And exactly how can they draw SS unless they've been employed in jobs that withhold SS ?  Which would mean they are in an above-the-table job, something many of the anti-immigration types claim isn't the norm. If someone is paying into SS, they should be able to draw from SS.

I appreciate you posting that, it helps answer my question
It was harder to find this info than it is to locate articles about illegals immigrants in the leftist liberal media

If you were to take the time to research it like I did you would find out that they only have to prove
that they worked in the US for 2.5 years, it doesn't matter if they were employed legally or illegally
it doesn't matter if they were having withholding taken out or not, and it doesn't matter if they are illegal or not

You can go to the social security website, they state in plain english that they are COMPLETELY
UNCONCERNED about the Citizenship status of ANYONE applying for social security benefits
All they need is some type of proof that they worked in the US for at least 2.5 years(ten for American Citizens)

So, the American Taxpayer will pay for the entire family of mexicans in mexico that are disabled
under the ssi disability program if just one of them comes to America and works here illegally for 2.5 years

Search for totalization agreement if you don't believe me, it is there, just hard to find

Quoted: Seems kinda unfair since I'm a legal immigrant and I'm not eligible until I contribute for 40 quarters, or ten years.

I should clarify that they have to return to mexico to get the shorter time
If they stay in the US they have to work for the same ten years you\we do

If they return to mexico after 2.5 years they can get the full benefits for them and their family
And, of course, they can cross over the border again and use another identity to stay in this country
while their family is collecting their benefits in mexico, sounds good for mexico, bad for America

Quoted: I appreciate you posting that, it helps answer my question It was harder to find this info than it is to locate articles about illegals immigrants in the leftist liberal media If you were to take the time to research it like I did you would find out that they only have to prove that they worked in the US for 2.5 years, it doesn't matter if they were employed legally or illegally it doesn't matter if they were having withholding taken out or not, and it doesn't matter if they are illegal or not You can go to the social security website, they state in plain english that they are COMPLETELY UNCONCERNED about the Citizenship status of ANYONE applying for social security benefits All they need is some type of proof that they worked in the US for at least 2.5 years(ten for American Citizens) So, the American Taxpayer will pay for the entire family of mexicans in mexico that are disabled under the ssi disability program if just one of them comes to America and works here illegally for 2.5 years Search for totalization agreement if you don't believe me, it is there, just hard to find

If they were working illegally, then there was no withholding taken out. No withholding= no benefits. And the SS  folks are right; its not their job to reserach the citizenship of contributors or applicants.

Show a link if you are saying that they and only they do not have to be contributory in order to get payments.

Edit to add:

Since yopu bring up Totalization Agreements, I DID google it, and this is what comes up:''

Totalization Agreements

The United States has entered into agreements, called Totalization Agreements, with several nations  for the purpose of avoiding double taxation of income with respect to social security taxes. These agreements must be taken into account when determining whether any alien is subject to the United States Social Security/Medicare tax, or whether any U.S. citizen or resident alien is subject to the social security taxes of a foreign country. As of this time, the following nations have entered into Totalization Agreements with the United States:

   * Australia
   * Austria
   * Belgium
   * Canada
   * Chile
   * Finland
   * France
   * Germany
   * Greece
   * Ireland
   * Italy
   * Japan
   * Luxembourg
   * Netherlands
   * Norway
   * Portugal
   * South Korea
   * Spain
   * Sweden
   * Switzerland
   * United Kingdom
"

Want to tell me how this is some sort of scam being pulled off on behalf of illegals, as you seem to be portraying it?

Not sure I am able to make sense of your butchered quotes or garbled question..........
(looks like you fixed the garbled quotes)

I agree with everything you posted that you found, but not your questions or accusations
You can keep reading about it.........it took me over ten hours to find all the information........

The point of THIS thread is to find out why no one comments on the totalization agreement
that I have been posting about for A YEAR, I have already posted multiple articles
and made multiple comments, I thought it would be considered VERY serious by American taxpayers

At this time I am not trying to convince you, I am trying to understand the lack of interest

In your case\response\post it is clear to me that you just do not believe it, that is what I wanted to know

I did a thread a couple of days ago that might help you see a little of the problem
trouble is.......that article has several factual errors if what I have read is true
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=416449

I'm amazed at how attitudes about social security have changed the past few decades.  Used to it was viewed as a retirement account that the government kept for you.  If you put money in, you should get money out.  Now we have people like 22bad that say even if you pay money in, you shouldn't be able to get money back out.  That changes the entire nature of how SS was sold to the public.z

Quoted: Not sure I am able to make sense of your butchered quotes or garbled question.......... (looks like you fixed the garbled quotes) I agree with everything you posted that you found, but not your questions or accusations You can keep reading about it.........it took me over ten hours to find all the information........

If you have found the info somewhere, post the link so we can make up our own minds as to what the information is that you are basing your claims on. Until then, I'll view it as simply more anyi-immigrant hysteria, because the whole  Totalization thing appears to be aimed at preventing double taxation, not giving immigrants a freebie.

Quoted: I'm amazed at how attitudes about social security have changed the past few decades.  Used to it was viewed as a retirement account that the government kept for you.  If you put money in, you should get money out.  Now we have people like 22bad that say even if you pay money in, you shouldn't be able to get money back out.  That changes the entire nature of how SS was sold to the public.z

SS was sold to the public as a form of foreign aid?

My position is that people here illegally should not be able to participate in Government Transfer payments
My position is that the mexican government should be taking care of the mexican citizens disability\retirement
And, my position is that the totalization agreement with mexico(not the other countries)is a totally one-sided flow of money

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with American Citizens being covered by social security or disability(ssi)

Quoted: Quoted: Not sure I am able to make sense of your butchered quotes or garbled question.......... (looks like you fixed the garbled quotes) I agree with everything you posted that you found, but not your questions or accusations You can keep reading about it.........it took me over ten hours to find all the information........ If you have found the info somewhere, post the link so we can make up our own minds as to what the information is that you are basing your claims on. Until then, I'll view it as simply more anyi-immigrant hysteria, because the whole  Totalization thing appears to be aimed at preventing double taxation, not giving immigrants a freebie.

I have already posted it, as I stated before, I am not trying to convince you in this thread
I am asking what is the reason that few people respond to the threads about the totalization agreement

ONE MORE TIME........I HAVE ALREADY POSTED MANY LINKS, CHECK THE ARCHIVES

eta: maybe many was the wrong word, at least 5 or 10, most of them should be around jan05-june05

wow, what a wealth of information.


read up on this smarty-pants

www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?ex=1270353600&en=f190f558441dc384&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt

looks like without a valid number you do not recieve any income tax refunds nor SS benefits.  

you are dead wrong.





here is a link about the point of your thread, the totalization agreement:

www.cis.org/articles/2004/back904.html


"Lure even more Mexicans into the United States illegally in the hopes they would obtain amnesty, thereby making themselves and their families eligible to receive U.S. Social Security benefits once the worker returned to Mexico and reached retirement age."

as stated by the 1st link above, you still have to have a valid SS number to recieve any benefits.



read this as well bud.
22bad is a liar

NO ME GUSTA ZAPATOS PEROS!!!!!!!

Quoted: smarty-pants

relates to this:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=417044&page=2


he refused to acgnowledge he was wrong about this.  

Quoted: That pretty much conficts what I heard where most migrant farm workers are paid cash and have no with holding taken out. No really, they work for cash under the table! It's also in conflict with a recent University of California reasearch study which shows the exact opposite of the author's claims in that California alone pays out 4 billion dollars more in benifits than it takes in from illegal aliens.

im not trying to make a point that they are putting more in that they get out, i am saying that the numerous claims that illegals are receiving SS benefits is false.  under the table workers do not have income withheld, but as 22bad pointed out in his "lettuce" thread, the current trend of most illegals is to use false SS numbers and documentation and work at legit jobs.


one can still be against something, but not succumb to hype and lies related to it.  its actually best to have an understanding of the facts if you truly want to do something about a problem.