Here's the deal.

I am pretty clueless about the whole "1911" thing !

I used to have a Colt Combat Commander and it was a P.O.S.  It was my first handgun and almost caused me to hate guns forever.

My wife (new to shooting) has been competing in "bowling pin shoots" at the local range for a few weeks now.  She has a SIG P220 and does fairly well.  (she has a black p220 and i have a two-tone one)


Everyone at these shoots owns a 1911 style gun and I think I want to get her one.  Don't get me wrong..   I LOVE the SIG's and they are pretty accurate and very reliable.

I am thinking of getting her either a Kimber or Springfield Armory 1911  (stainless) or, possibly, the new SIG P220-ST when it comes out.

This gun would be used strictly for competition and not for defense purposes.  AND..  we don't want to play "gunsmith" every day -- tweaking parts, etc... (reliability is KEY)

Does anyone have any thoughts to share?

I am especially interested in the comparison of the Springfield vs. Kimber.  (I am a little put off by the fact that Kimber purchases their slides from Shit&Weasel)


Thanks !!

Les Baer

His Motto:
[i]"When You've got $3000 burning a hole in your pocket...Who you gonna call?"[/i]

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I read on another site that Kimbers use mostly McCormick MIM internals...
Good stuff for the most part.
I've shot a trillion Springfields, and they were all VERY nice guns...

Splitting hairs really.

Glock v. Sig...Know what I mean Vern?

First off shooting pins is a lot of fun. But if she intends to win a stock gun will not do the trick unless they separate classes into top ladies limited gun class where there will only be two shooters.

Either the Springfield or Kimber should work fine.  If she misses much she would be better served with an EAA single action Witness in 45 caliber which would give here some more capacity without the huge grip frames of some other double stack high capacity guns.

I'd personally buy a Kimber.

heres my take on the 1911 search --
springfield --made in brazil, possible use of MIM parts
kimber --slides and frames casted(forged?) at S&W, MIM parts, the new safety mechanism on kimbers series 2 makes me question the ability to use replacement parts, since its a kimber only design.
chuck daly --made in phillipines, POS, just dont do it
les baer, wilson --good guns, but waaaay over priced, you pay for the name mostly

Colt --IMO is the way to go, they started the 1911 craze and are the standard for all other 1911 builders. yes they have plastic trigger (but so do glocks and other guns) and mainspring housings (these parts dont break), all other parts are forged. the gunsmith i know Prefers to work on colts, and feels they make some of the best internal parts.
Colt had problems for a few years and cut out many of there guns for a few years, this is where many turned to buy from kimber, but colt is back and selling 1991s and they are very good guns out of the box(the colt name will always be worth more than others), and excellent for building up a competitive 1911. (although i dont like the stainless 1991 model)

yes i know you had a colt before that gave you problems, but an action job and tuning would of solved it.
Rock River Arms --lesser known but they make some of the best tuned 1911s(navy marksmanship team thinks so) and so does my gunsmith, id say just as good as les baer and wilson and Cheaper, also make great ARs

MIM parts are less desirable than forged parts, which is what colt uses, MIM parts from my understanding is that if they arent made just right they can be prone to failure in a short amount of time(although rare it does happen). ive also heard that a hand fitted MIM part wont maintain the same tolerances over time(but thats only a Rumor), these were designed to be low cost drop in, no fitting required parts. i some how doubt there are a lot of MIM parts used in highly competitive guns, should you get a kimber or SA i would have a smith replace those parts with some kings or ed brown parts, and have them fitted to the gun.

if you want to shoot competitively then a tuned 1911 is the only way to, yes this requires going to a good gunsmith.
for ME, i bought a caspian 1911 frame, from a gun show got a colt mk4 slide and barrel, colt internal parts, then sent the gun to Kings Gun works, had them build the gun and put in some of there parts. in the end i had a custom fitted gun that was built to MY Specs, and did it for about the same price or even less than a SA or kimber, and IMO i got a better gun.

my next 1911 will be a $500 NIB Colt 1991, sent to a gun smith, $200 worth of custom parts and fitting =$700 Custom gun, costing the same or less than a SA or kimber, and just as good if not better.

IMO -- use what you read here as a baseline to ask questions, ask the competitive 1911 shooters what they feel is the best way to go(they will know more than people who simpley say "go with kimber or SA or colt", this doesnt help you much. be sure to shoot there guns to see if a 1911 is what you want, find out which gun maker they recomend and which gunsmith. --HTH

Para-Ordnance p14 limited or HKUSP Expert, assuming her mitts will fit. My small fingered wife shoots our (it used to be mine!) P13 like a champ.

Buying a 1911 is like buying a car,99 percent of the time you get a "runner"sometimes you gotta "tune"that is,make it reliable,no matter what brand you buy.Once you get it there,they generally run extremely well,forever.Assuming you are comparing equal guns,and not a mil-spec S to a gold match K,there isnt a heck of a lot of difference.The mim isssue with Kimber is waaay overblown.Own both,shoot both alot,and the one that is in my hand when asked would be my favorite.Adjustable sights,hi-ride grip safety,wide thumb safety(s) and your good to go.Go ahead,take the plunge,you'll never look back.

My dedicated pin gun
is built on a Caspian too.
Eveything inside came from C&S
including the Bar-sto/C&S triple
chambered comp.
A pin gun has to be able
to take the MAJOR power factor loads
to knock the pins clear off the shelf and
hold up.
Also I wouldn't recommend stainless.

If you already own a SIG and are shooting well with it, I don't see moving to a 1911 is going to gain you anything other than a smaller balance in your check book.  

For what is worth, Kimbers appear to be the "in" 1911 right at the moment.  Never shot one myself, not a big 1911 fan.  The reason being at every IDPA match I've been to if any gun has a problem it will be a 1911.  Something about those guns just makes people want to mess with them.  

If you really want to upgrade and stay with a 45, the H & K seems to be the gun of choice in these parts.

Check out the 1911 Forums--  [url]http://www.1911forum.com[/url]

Mike

If you want to get a 1911 pistol then I think you will be happy with a Kimber.  I have or had several SA 1911 pistols and they were good too but I think Kimber is better (more refined).  As for the durability of current Kimber pistols, my first Kimber SS Classic has now been shot over 24,000 rounds with no breakage of any kind.  Only think I have done is to replace the recoil spring every 5,000 rounds. My second Kimber is a SS Target model and this pistol has just reached 12,000 rounds.  Only problem I had with this pistol was the adjustable rear sight.  I had to have the factory replace it twice now.  Next time I'll get a Bomar adjustable sight for it.  My third Kimber is a compact model and I have shot it just under 10,000 rounds.  Again nothing broke.

I also have or had several SA 1911 pistols.  They are all good pistols but none of them were shot more than 5,000 rounds.  Only problem I had was one slide stop which would engage when I still had some rounds in the mag or not engage on last shot.  No big deal... I just got a new slide stop and it worked fine.  I did notice that SA pistols were not as accurate as Kimbers.  

I shoot at local pin matches with the Target model every other weekend.  I've also shot pins using my Sig220.  IMHO it would be hard to beat a 1911 pistol with Sig.  

Just my $0.02

Thanks for all of the replies !!

Here's what I've decided for now:

I'm going to take my Rosana down to the local gun store to let her actually hold and feel each one.

I think it might end up being the Glock 30 or Kimber.  (i have a strange feeling that the 1911 frame will be too large for her and she is very familiar with the glock 19)

I have definitely decided to get the SIG P220ST for myself.  (heck -- I need toys too!)  

Before rejecting the 1911 please take into account that you can put short, med., or long triggers in it, plus you can also change the grip size by using either flat, wedge, or arched mainspring housings. All of this stuff is easily changed in the 1911 design. Ok so that tweaking but still....

You are right in having her go hold each piece to see how each one feels in her hand, distance to trigger, etc.

Yes,
and get them to break
at less than 2 lbs. which is where
I prefer them to be.

Don't be so sure.  
My wife has very small hands with skinny fingers (about the size of a 12 year old) and her favorite pistol is a customized Colt Combat Commander in 9mm.  I had some modifications done to it like short reach trigger, narrow stocks, flat MSH and a thumb safty with lowered shelf (like Detonic thumb safty).  This pistol fits her hand better than any other pistol except the Ruger Bearcat revolver. She tried my Glock 26 but didn't like it because of the grip design.

My uncle just picked up a Kimber today. Checked it out, field stripped it, it's VERY VERY NICE!

Let's just say, I'll be getting one ASAP.[pistol]

i'm waiting for funds to accumulate to purchase a kimber.  in the meantime, i visit the local gun dealer every now and again just to hold one.

kimber makes a WIDE variety of .45s so finding one to fit her hands shouldn't be a problem.  check out their website.

[url]www.kimberamerica.com[/url]