Marines Pleased, So USMC Orders $660M More ACOG Rifle Scopes

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Marines Pleased, So USMC Orders $660M More ACOG Rifle Scopes

Posted: 8/15/2005 2:27:10 PM EDT

Cool scope for everyone!

Marines Pleased, So USMC Orders $660M More ACOG Rifle Scopes
Posted 15-Aug-2005 03:37

Trijicon ACOG

Major General J.N. Mattis, Commanding General of the 1st Marine Division during Operation Iraqi Freedom, called them "the biggest improvement in lethality for the Marine infantryman since the introduction of the M1 Garand in WWII." The USMC calls them the first-ever Rifle Combat Optic (RCO) of the United States Marine Corps. Trijicon Inc. in Wixom, MI calls them ACOG - Advanced Combat Optical Gunsights.

Now the USMC's initial $7.5 million contract has been followed by a multi-year $660 million indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract with Trijicon for Rifle Combat Optics (RCO) fixed 4 power scopes. The TA31RCO will be a slightly modified version of the TA31F 4x ACOG, 6,000 of which are currently in service with the Marine Corps....

The ACOGs are internally-adjustable, compact telescopic sights with tritium illuminated reticle patterns for use in low light or at night. They combine traditional, precise distance marksmanship with close-in aiming speed. Designed for use with the M16 family of personal weapons, its mechanical and optical designs are bent to a single purpose: to provide increased hit potential in all lighting conditions - without failure-prone batteries. Although the ACOGs have many features which are very advantageous for military use, they were originally developed by Trijicon without government funding.

The new TA31RCO will incorporate Trijicon's exclusive dual-illuminated red chevron-shaped reticle and bullet drop compensator. In low light or at night, the chevron is brightly illuminated by tritium; in daylight, a fiber optic system collects ambient light and helps ensure daytime brightness and controlled contrast. The system is totally battery-free, which is important for reasons of reliability as well as combat load. A new Target Reference System will allow a rifleman to quickly and accurately reference the location of a target and communicate that location to fellow Marines.

The TA31RCO will also feature Trijicon's highly advanced Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC), an optical breakthrough that permits a both-eyes-open shooting method that greatly increases hit ratios in fast moving Close Quarter Battle (CQB) scenarios such as the urban warfare that characterizes operations in Iraq.

The initial purchase will be 104,000 scopes at $610 each for a total initial delivery order of $63.4 million. The government may purchase up to a maximum of 800,000 RCO scopes on this contract over the five-year period the contract is in effect.

Work on this contract will be performed in Wixom, MI. (90%) and Fredericksburg VA (10%), and is expected to be complete in August 2010. This contract was competitively procured using full and open competition. The Marine Corps Systems Command in Quantico, VA issued the contract (M67854-05-D-1061).

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/08/marines-pleased-so-usmc-orders-660m-more-acog-rifle-scopes/index.php

Posted: 8/15/2005 2:29:10 PM EDT

[#1]

good for them.

if this means POI on a enemy, more power to them.

Posted: 8/15/2005 2:43:16 PM EDT

[#2]

This thread requires a gratuitous ACOG pic:

Posted: 8/15/2005 2:46:06 PM EDT

[#3]

Now these things are going to be harder and harder to find. I hope they quickly expand service/repair.

Posted: 8/15/2005 2:46:27 PM EDT

[#4]

Time to buy some stock in Trijicon

Posted: 8/15/2005 2:49:38 PM EDT

[#5]

Well I guess this means that they'll get around to releasing the upgraded tripowers in 10 years or so.

Posted: 8/15/2005 3:10:06 PM EDT

[#6]

That should {and then some} pay for every start-up & developement penny that they ever required. Hope to see the price come down for us in a year or two.

Posted: 8/15/2005 3:22:32 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

"The initial purchase will be 104,000 scopes at $610 each for a total initial delivery order of $63.4 million. The government may purchase up to a maximum of 800,000 RCO scopes on this contract over the five-year period the contract is in effect."

That's a group buy I'd like to get in on! hug.gif

Posted: 8/15/2005 4:27:02 PM EDT

[#8]

Dupety-Dippety-Doo!

Now that I've got that out of the way;
Good on 'em.
The Army has been satisfied with theirs for some time.

Posted: 8/15/2005 4:52:52 PM EDT

[#9]

But that I could afford one.....

::sigh::

Posted: 8/15/2005 4:55:47 PM EDT

[#10]

I think the army is actually a little more correct in their optic choice the, the M68 is a better general issue optic than a RCO. We should have to gone with a mix of both, vice just the RCO except those bought by units.

Posted: 8/15/2005 8:06:03 PM EDT

[#11]

I guess the question would be: does everyone armed with a rifle in the squad need a magnified optic?

Or just one or two Designated Marksmen?

Does the SAW gunner need one? The grenadiers?

How do we make sure those identified as needing magnified optics get them?

Or do we need to stock both reflex and magnified, and issue the appropriate type as needed?

Or going beyond the line infantry...do mortarmen, drivers, military poilice and mechanics need them?

*****

That's given the equipment we have now...if we had a compact, variable power optic (perhaps with built in laser aiming units), then we would not have to worry about who gets what...though anyone not in Combat Arms prolly doesn't need optics at all.

Posted: 8/15/2005 8:12:43 PM EDT

[#12]

The plan is everyone will have a RCO, no matter their billet if they has a rifle or carbine they get an Optic. It take a few years for the wing and group (what ever the hell FSSG is now called) but eventually everyone will have one.

Posted: 8/15/2005 8:22:54 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
The plan is everyone will have a RCO, no matter their billet if they has a rifle or carbine they get an Optic. It take a few years for the wing and group (what ever the hell FSSG is now called) but eventually everyone will have one.

Wow. Considering some of the guys I served with in the wing, I would have to call that a waste.

But, I'd like to see what effect it would have on scores if you gave the unc's ACOGs...

Posted: 8/15/2005 8:28:33 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
This thread requires a gratuitous ACOG pic:

junior.apk.net/~scotts/acog.jpg

... Yes it does!

Posted: 8/15/2005 8:32:46 PM EDT

[#15]

love mine

Posted: 8/15/2005 8:37:16 PM EDT

[#16]

BUY NOW - Price increase on the way!!

Guntoting_Spartan - pull your carry handle and flat top mount that with a LaRue mount.

Posted: 8/15/2005 10:56:32 PM EDT

[#17]

its a different rifle now, that was just for the pic when i first got the acog

Posted: 8/16/2005 3:48:13 AM EDT

[#18]

The current plan for rifle training in the fleet will have tradional grass week (more ISMT-E these days), 3 days of SLR fire with table 1, followed by 2 days with table 2, basic combat shooting. Table 3 is intermediate combat shooting and will be done at units, this table is unit and Table of Organization specific. More than like table 3 will include the ACOG qual/shoot but that may be done in table 2 in the future. Table 4, advance combat shooting is only required of infantry MOSs. However table 4 will be expected of many divisional Marines.

ACOG QUAL COURSE

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

BZO 10

EACH SHOOTER WILL BZO THEIR WEAPON AT THE 36, YARD LINE. THEY WILL DO THIS IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE POSITION. THE STAGES OF FIRE ARE AS FOLLOWS: (Note 100m Zero, tip of chevron 3 clicks moves strike of rd 1 inch at 36yds 9ck=1in elv & wdg on standard mil. zero target using tip of recital)

1. 3 ROUNDS SLOW FIRE.
2. 3 ROUNDS SLOW FIRE.
3. 4 ROUNDS TO CONFIRM BZO.

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

POSITION SHOOTING 20

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE FROM THE 36,YARD LINE. THEY WILL ENGAGE MULTABLE ECHO TARGETS WITH EIGHT-INCH TARGET AREA, FROM THE FOLLOWING POSITIONS. 20 SECONDS PER POSITION

1. 5 ROUNDS FROM THE STANDING POSITION
2. 5 ROUNDS FROM THE STANDING TO THE KNEELING POSITION.
3. 5 ROUND THE STANDING TO THE SQUATING POSITION.
4. 5 ROUNDS FROM STANDING TO SUPPORTED PRONE POSITION.

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER
STATIONARY TARGETS 60

EACH SHOOTER WILL START FROM THE STANDING POSITION FOR EACH STAGE OF FIRE. STAGES 1-2 THE SHOOTER WILL GO TO THE KNEELING. STAGES 3 THROUGH 6 THE SHOOTER WILL HAVE HIS CHOICE BUT ALL STAGES MUST START FROM THE STANDING.

1. 10 ROUNDS AT 50-100 METER TARGETS. 40SEC
2. 10 ROUNDS AT 100-200 METER TARGETS. 40SEC
3. 10 ROUNDS AT 200-400 METER TARGETS. 60SEC
4. 10 ROUNDS AT 400-500 METER TARGETS. 60SEC
5. 10 ROUNDS AT 500-600 METER TARGETS. 90SEC
6. 10 ROUNDS AT 600-800 METER TARGETS. 120SEC

* IF THE RANGE DOES NOT ALLOW OMIT STAGES 5-6

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER
MULITPLE TARGETS 20

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE. THE STAGES OF FIRE ARE AS FOLLOWS:

ENGAGE TWO TARGETS 100-300 METERS A TIME LIMIT OF 10 SECONDS. SHOOTERS WILL ONLY FIRE TWO ROUNDS, ONE AT EACH TARGET. TOTAL OF FIVE TIMES

ENGAGE TWO TARGETS 300-500 METERS A TIME LIMIT OF 20 SECONDS. SHOOTERS WILL ONLY FIRE TWO ROUNDS, ONE AT EACH TARGET. TOTAL OF FIVE TIMES

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER
MOVING TARGETS 30
IF AVAILABLE

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE. THE STAGES OF FIRE ARE AS FOLLOWS:

1. 10 ROUNDS AT THE 100-METER TARGETS ENGAGING 1
TARGET MOVING LEFT TO RIGHT, AND 1 TARGET MOVING
RIGHT TO LEFT. 5 TIMES EACH WAY
2. REPEAT THE STAGE OF FIRE AT THE 200-METER LINE.
3. REPEAT THE STAGE OF FIRE AT THE 300-METER LINE.

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER
LOW-LIGHT TARGET ENGAGEMENT 30

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE. THE STAGES OF FIRE ARE AS FOLLOWS:
1. ENGAGE 10 TARGETS AT 100 METERS.
2. REPEAT AT THE 200 METERS.
3. REPEAT AT THE 300 METERS.

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER
UNKNOWN DISTANCE 55

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE. THEY WILL HAVE 55 ROUNDS TO ENGAGE TARGETS OUT TO 800 METERS. THEY WILL USE THIS STAGE OF FIRE TO DEVELOP DATA FOR THEIR UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOTING TECHNIQUES.

• ENGAGE TARGETS OUT AS FAR AS THE RANGE WILL ALLOW
EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER
QUALIFICATION 20

ENGAGE 5 TARGETS AT RANGES BETWEEN 50-100 METERS FROM THE STANDING OR TO THE KNEELING POSITION WITHIN 20 SECONDS. HIT FIVE OF FIVE TARGETS.

ENGAGE 5 TARGETS AT RANGES BETWEEN 100-300 METERS FROM THE STANDING TO KNEELING POSITION WITHIN 30 SECONDS. HIT FOUR OF FIVE TARGETS.

ENGAGE 5 TARGETS AT RANGES BETWEEN 300-500 METERS FROM THE STANDIND TO SUPPORTED PRONE POSITION WITHIN 45 SECONDS. HIT FOUR OF FIVE TARGETS.

ENGAGE 5 TARGETS AT RANGES BETWEEN 500-600 METERS FROM THE SUPPORTED POSITION WITHIN 60 SECONDS. HIT FOUR OF FIVE TARGETS.

*TOTAL OF 20 ROUNDS
*EACH SHOOTER MUST RECEIVE 16 HITS TO BE QUALIFIED

Posted: 8/16/2005 3:58:34 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Cool scope for everyone!

EOTECH , Ann Arbor, Michigan
TRIJICON, Wixom, Michigan

All within 25 miles of where I live. I wonder if my wife would mind me buying one of each if I told her I was "supporting the local economy "?.

Posted: 8/16/2005 4:09:50 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Cool scope for everyone!

EOTECH , Ann Arbor, Michigan
TRIJICON, Wixom, Michigan

All within 25 miles of where I live. I wonder if my wife would mind me buying one of each if I told her I was "supporting the local economy "?.

Everything in A2 is expensive.
I wouldn't go out and buy ACOGs now, they're going to drop in price eventually when their supply exceeds the demand.

Posted: 8/16/2005 4:27:22 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:

"The initial purchase will be 104,000 scopes at $610 each for a total initial delivery order of $63.4 million. The government may purchase up to a maximum of 800,000 RCO scopes on this contract over the five-year period the contract is in effect."

That's a group buy I'd like to get in on!

Hoo Rah

Posted: 8/16/2005 4:27:34 AM EDT

[#22]

think there's any chance the prices on these will come down for civs?

Posted: 8/16/2005 4:48:43 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
think there's any chance the prices on these will come down for civs?

Why would they?

No, I predict that the prices will remain high. Simple supply and demand my boy.

Having said that - man, that's a sweet optic.

CMOS

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:11:02 AM EDT

[#24]

It's great to see a smaller American company win big for putting out a quality product, especially when that product will help the American military be more efficient at what they do. A win/win situation for the Marines, as well as the folks back home.

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:15:14 AM EDT

[#25]

Great. Bad enough I couldn't afford one before, now the markets going to dry up for a while.

I'm just glad they're going where they should be going though.

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:21:22 AM EDT

[#26]

why cant they just give me one.........................

i'm not poor, but dont have money for the best battle scope.

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:22:56 AM EDT

[#27]

Great! Now every Fat commando on this site will need one!

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:23:00 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
think there's any chance the prices on these will come down for civs?

Why would they?

No, I predict that the prices will remain high. Simple supply and demand my boy.

Having said that - man, that's a sweet optic.

CMOS

blech...i was kinda hoping that with a volume production, the price of manufacturing will be coming down and they'll be gouging the hell outta uncle sam so they can afford to lower prices to the general populace...

but i think you're right. firearms and related items don't follow usual business practices...

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:25:49 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Great! Now every Fat commando on this site will need one!

Hey, Hey!!!

I resemble that remark!!

Love my ACOG!!

Keyboard

fo' sho'......

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:38:09 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Great! Now every Fat commando on this site will need one!

I'm not fat. I'm calorically challenged.

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:39:22 AM EDT

[#31]

Hey, I got $610 right here for one of those!

Posted: 8/16/2005 7:28:04 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I think the army is actually a little more correct in their optic choice the, the M68 is a better general issue optic than a RCO. We should have to gone with a mix of both, vice just the RCO except those bought by units.

In addition to my Aimpoint, I had the TA-01NSN for about 5 years. Rarely used it and always kept the Aimpoint mounted. The USMC choice of hte TA31, however, is much better than the SF model and bridges the gap between the Aimpoint and the NSN model. Still, with engagement ranges as short as they've been, the Aimpoint/EOTech solution is more universal.

Posted: 8/16/2005 7:42:05 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted: Although the ACOGs have many features which are very advantageous for military use, they were originally developed by Trijicon without government funding.

Ah, capitalism and free enterprise delivers the goods! Greed beats Socialism, again. If I was Trijicon, I would overproduce in order to take advantage of the "Official Scope of the USMC" selling line.

Then they could sell it to civlians for cheap, and sell it overseas too! They're going to rack up billion$ and help the US economy, eh?

Posted: 8/16/2005 7:57:18 AM EDT

[#34]

$600??? Now THAT's how you do a group buy.

Congrats and thanks to Trijicon for developing a product that helps out the USMC in such a fine way.

TXL

Posted: 8/16/2005 8:19:20 AM EDT

[#35]

Somewhere here someone posted a pic of a Marine's M16 with a mounted ACOG. While engaged in a fight his optic got shot. He turned and put down some ass whoppen. If I remeber correct the ACOG was still working....I think..

Wish I kept the pic.....

A big BRAVO to the corps for givin the boys top notch gear!!!

David

Posted: 8/16/2005 9:12:23 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Somewhere here someone posted a pic of a Marine's M16 with a mounted ACOG. While engaged in a fight his optic got shot. He turned and put down some ass whoppen. If I remeber correct the ACOG was still working....I think.. Wish I kept the pic.....

It might be this one.

Posted: 8/16/2005 9:16:09 AM EDT

[#37]

How long before they show up at gunshows and pawn shops?

Posted: 8/16/2005 9:23:47 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
How long before they show up at gunshows and pawn shops?

They've already been on eBay for a few months.

Posted: 8/16/2005 9:29:03 AM EDT

[#39]

They've already been on eBay for a few months.

Yup...with "Marine USMC Scope" in the titles.

Posted: 8/16/2005 9:42:37 AM EDT

[#40]

WOW, thats some contract!

Posted: 8/16/2005 11:15:59 AM EDT

[#41]

Well, you folks who previously bought are lucky, because now for the folks who want them, they will be unavailable because all available production will go for production to Uncle Sam and the USMC, and rightfully so.

Posted: 8/16/2005 11:46:40 AM EDT

[#42]

Yeah, these scopes have been on the EE for some time now. These will replace the TA31F, so I think price increases you see are dealers making a few extra bucks while they still aren't readily available. I fell sorry for the dealers who are sitting on TA31A's as the round reticle fell out of fashion in armchair commando circles...

As far as how many Trijicon will make, they started on a big plant expansion last year (I live near them), and have already been making a bunch of print ads in the magazines mentioning that the "ACOG you always wanted is now available to you due to increased production capability".

Sounds like a good thing all around.

Dave

ETA: GODDAMIT!!! THAT WAS POST 2000 AND I WASTED IT!!!

Posted: 8/16/2005 3:10:13 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Well, you folks who previously bought are lucky, because now for the folks who want them, they will be unavailable because all available production will go for production to Uncle Sam and the USMC, and rightfully so.

It sucks, but if thats the way they got to do it. Atleast there will always be TAC-COGS.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Marines Pleased, So USMC Orders $660M More ACOG Rifle Scopes

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