Lowe's HDW says, "Get that gun out of the house"

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lowe's HDW says, "Get that gun out of the house" (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 7/14/2001 3:29:08 PM EDT

Please, be sure and let them know how you feel about that. As a former customer.

[url]www.lowes.com/Lowes/howTo/howtoDocument.asp?ID=excuses[/url]

Posted: 7/14/2001 3:37:02 PM EDT

[#1]

Well of course, It's for the children !!
SON OF A BITCH !!!! one more place I won't shop !!!!
[pissed]

Posted: 7/14/2001 3:44:05 PM EDT

[#2]

Here's my e-mail to them:

[b]I spent over $6,700 at Lowes last year. Was on my way to spending that again, if not more this year.

From your "How to make your Home Safe" page:

"'I need to keep my gun nearby, so if a robber comes into the house I can protect my family.'

Homes with guns are much more likely to have a murder or suicide of a family member than in homes without guns.

Remove any guns from the house. If a gun must be kept, keep it in a locked box and store bullets locked up somewhere else."

I'd suggest you do your research before just taking someones word that this statement is true.

Not only is this statement bogus, it has nothing to do with Home Improvement. Stick to things you know, e.g., fire extinguishers, smoke alarms etc.

Until I hear a retraction, I'll be taking my business to the local hardware store, even if they are a little more expensive. At least they know the importance of firearms and how to handle and store them safely.

One last thing. I would like to send whoever decided to post that statement on your web page a sign to go in their front yard. It reads, "This house is a gun free house." Wonder if the burglars would take notice?[/b]

[img]http://www.ncsg.org/topohat-small.jpg[/img]

Posted: 7/14/2001 3:57:34 PM EDT

[#3]

https://www.lowes.com/Lowes/customerService/process_LowesDotComFeedback.asp?CatalogID=45 [red](won't Link) Customer Service E Mail page.[/red]

I find your "TIP" as to removing all firearms in my house to make it safer to be blatant anti-gun propoganda.

I find this anti-gun attitude unacceptable.

Not that you give a damn about a single customer but please know that not only have you lost all my future business I will do my best to influence all contractors in my area by educating them as to your un-American views.

sgb

Posted: 7/14/2001 4:10:47 PM EDT

[#4]

[left]NA i shop at home depot they allow guns used in there store's. no. seriously let them babble on are you going to not shop at every store because of there gun issue's. the only store i will not shop at is kmart because they specifically banned sale of pistol ammo because of us not criminals. your going to have to ingnore this bullshit.[/left]

Posted: 7/14/2001 4:56:48 PM EDT

[#5]

My stepfather is a contractor, after telling him about this he's cancelling his account with them.

Posted: 7/14/2001 4:59:59 PM EDT

[#6]

My letter:

This email is in response to your "Excuses You Hear" webpage (http://www.lowes.com/Lowes/howTo/howtoDocument.asp?ID=excuses)

In reference to your comments on guns - do you even research your supposed "Facts"? Did you know that citizens of this country use firearms to defend their homes and families more than 2 million times a year? That the "fact" that someone is more likely to murder a family member is totally false? Do you have any idea how many gun owners shop at Lowe's, and after they find out about this (via the Internet, not to mention the fact that this WILL be printed in NRA and gun publications, with readership in the millions) they will stop shopping at Lowe's?

I have personally spent more than $15,000 on home improvement items in the last 4 years, and I have NO intention of ever spending a dollar more at Lowe's due to your ignorance and flagrant politicizing of an issue near and dear to my heart. I will NEVER compromise my family's safety, nor will I patronize an establishment that would deceive their customers and place them and their families at risk.

Posted: 7/14/2001 5:12:43 PM EDT

[#7]

Why do businesses insist on dabbling in politics? You'd think, after looking at the last election - that people would think "Gee golly whumpers, can I really afford to alienate 50% of my customer base?"

Posted: 7/14/2001 5:39:20 PM EDT

[#8]

Eagle's went to hell after Lowe's bought them. Now I have one more reason not to go there. Luckily Home Depot is open 24/7 and across the street from them.

Posted: 7/14/2001 5:51:20 PM EDT

[#9]

They are building a new Lowe's in Logan Utah. I will be alerting those in Utah that are gun owner groups as to this bullshit. I can guarantee that not one red cent of my money will they ever get.

Posted: 7/14/2001 5:54:40 PM EDT

[#10]

My wife and I have split our time home improvement shopping between Lowes and Home Depot.
I have just seen your anti-gun stance on your 'excuses' page.
1. This information is a lie. It was debunked by John Lott of Yale, and it is clear that the researchers slanted the results of the study.
2. My personal rights, under Article 1, Section 4 of my State Constitution, are mine. Your attempting to interfere with them is an insult to me and my State. What's next, restricting a woman's right to choose?
3. Hello!?! You sell home stuff, not politics. If you want to kiss the liberal extremists butts, I hope they buy enough home stuff to make up for the business you lose.
4. You have lost my business. Home Depot is less than a half mile down the road, and they will even sell me a gun safe.

In parting, you have insulted me, and I can take action by not shopping in your stores again. As a bonus, the other guy is just down the road, so my stand doesn't even cost me time or effort. It does cost you money. (We must have spent over 2k between you and HD this year, hope losing 1k business works out poorly for you).

Former Customer XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Posted: 7/14/2001 6:17:00 PM EDT

[#11]

I've saved the actual page into memory and posted the source code onto my site in case they pull it. Here is my site:
[url]http://itomnt2.cob.appstate.edu/web200/web231/howtoDoc.htm[/url]

I'll lose my site once the new semester starts so it might be a good idea for someone else to do the same. I think we should forward this to as many Pro-Liberty groups we can think of and post it on every board we come across.

Posted: 7/14/2001 6:43:49 PM EDT

[#12]

Your page is now mirrored on a permanent site. In fact, I'll be happy to mirror any other such pages that need such attention.

[url]http://www.sportutilityrifle.com/[/url]

Posted: 7/14/2001 6:53:16 PM EDT

[#13]

This is my response. I also used my mynra.com address.[:D]

[b]I have just read your excuses page and I am aghast at the ignorance found within. You present facts about gun ownership that are patently false. Until I hear a public retraction of your policy and a public apology for intentionaly misleading the public about gunownership, I will not set foot in another Lowe's store. I will also no longer be referring business to your stores from my business. You are in business to provide building supplies and home improvement materials. Stick to what you know best and keep your nose out of public policy suggestions. I will be waiting for a real response to this issue.

Brian Pratt[/b]

Posted: 7/14/2001 7:09:21 PM EDT

[#14]

i just sent them an email also. The gun control is also mentioned on the bedroom safety page as well.

Damn i used to like that place!!

mike

Posted: 7/14/2001 8:50:10 PM EDT

[#15]

Here's my input to Lowes on their comments page:

I am outraged by the political propagandist lies you are espousing on your "How To" page. Specifically, the idiotic response to why someone keeps a firearm in their house...that there are more suicides and murders as a result.

A) This is 100% false...in fact most suicides don't involve firearms, and if firearms were not present they would commit murder with other weapons (and do already, by the way).

B) Firearm ownership is not only a right set forth by the Constitution, but is the ONLY right that safeguards all other rights.

C) Instead of attacking firearms, why don't you talk about how many people die in car accidents every year, and tell them to stop driving their cars and take the inefficient public transportation instead.

D) Who is Lowe's to tell me what is best for my family's protection?!?!?!

E) If Lowe's believes this so strongly, please start selling signs for your customers to post in their front yards and stickers for their windows that state "This is a 100% gun-free house" and see how they sell.

I am deeply saddened by this revelation of your willingness to be a mouthpiece for the liberal anti-gun socialist minority in the U.S. I have purposedly used Lowe's as my first choice for home improvement over Home Depot as I have stock interests in Lowes. After spending over $20,000 in your stores over the last 5 years, I am now refusing to shop at Lowe's and will give all my business to Home Depot across the street. Not to mention the withdrawal of my stock interst in Lowe's.

Rest assured, all of the people I know will hear about your unfactual liberal political viewpoints, and will most likely stop shopping there as well.

Posted: 7/14/2001 8:58:33 PM EDT

[#16]

Just sent them a nice little email. I hope the whole company goes bust. What pricks

Reverend73

Posted: 7/14/2001 9:07:08 PM EDT

[#17]

DavidM,
thanks for the info on Lowes. I just spent a 100 bucks there yesterday for some driveway sealer, but, no more, from now on I will go to Home Depot even though it is not as convenient for me. Thanks.

Posted: 7/14/2001 9:21:40 PM EDT

[#18]

Done
BTT

Posted: 7/14/2001 9:43:16 PM EDT

[#19]

Remind them of the potential LIABILITY that they have when they give unqualified advice, especially when somebody is foolish enough to follow it and is victimized by a criminal. That's what I did.. [:D]

Posted: 7/14/2001 9:57:05 PM EDT

[#20]

Done. Thanks David for the info.

Posted: 7/14/2001 10:41:05 PM EDT

[#21]

Here is the e-mail I just sent to Lowes...

This is in reference to you website. The page in question is:

http://www.lowes.com/Lowes/howTo/howtoDocument.asp?ID=excuses

Your website advises people to remove guns from their houses or lock them up since it has supposedly been proven that a gun in the house increases the chance of "the murder or suicide of a family member". This is just not so and is based on flawed statistics promoted by anti-gun democrats and liberals. These flawed statistics have been disproven by a few statisticians most notably Dr. John Lott in the book "More Guns, Less Crime" who proved that there is no correlation between firearms in the home and an increased rate of murder or suicide of family members or people who reside in homes containing firearms. I don't mind Lowes urging consumers to practice firearms safety and security but I don't want it to be at the expense of myths perpetuated by left wingers using flawed "voodoo" statistics. If Lowes continues to support these kinds of myths I might find myself forever shopping at the Home Depot store across town. Thank you.

Posted: 7/14/2001 10:50:52 PM EDT

[#22]

they cant even the terminolgy right Bullets wont do anything by themselves u need a cartride. bullets are just th projectile yeah i know im rambling sorry about that

Posted: 7/14/2001 10:52:06 PM EDT

[#23]

Wow, that's really funny. I just carried concealed in a Lowe's today!

Posted: 7/14/2001 11:00:48 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Why do businesses insist on dabbling in politics? You'd think, after looking at the last election - that people would think "Gee golly whumpers, can I really afford to alienate 50% of my customer base?"

View Quote

I agree. Businesses that dabble in politics are sure to piss someone off. That's the nature of politics. You'd think they'd learn to focus on their business and how to attract more people.

Posted: 7/14/2001 11:04:57 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
"'I need to keep my gun nearby, so if a robber comes into the house I can protect my family.'

Homes with guns are much more likely to have a murder or suicide of a family member than in homes without guns."

View Quote

My god, people still are spouting off that disgrace to research science Arthur "Guns in the home are 43 times more likely to be used against a family member" Kellerman????

He refused to release the raw data for his study for peer review.

In Kellerman's study, he also "discovered" that you are 23x more likely to get killed if you rent, 64x more likely to get killed if you have a deadbolt lock (Lowes better stop selling these right away!), 6x more likely to get killed if you are male and 5x more likely if you are female.

In the summer of 1996, the U.S. House of Representatives voted to shift $2.6 million away from the NCIPC of the CDC when congress found out that Kellerman's "studies" were nothing but the use of junk science to promote a political agenda.

The hypocrite even said this:

[b]"If you've got to resist [an attacker], your chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah." (Dr. Arthur Kellerman, Health magazine, Mar/Apr 94 )[/b]

[url]i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/43_to_1_fallacy.htm[/url]

[url]www.freecitizens.com/43times.html[/url]

[url]www.ssaa.org.au/SLICK.HTML[/url]

Guns in the Medical Literature -- A Failure of Peer Review
by Edgar A. Suter MD

[url]www.rkba.org/research/suter/med-lit.html[/url]

GUNS:
Facts &
Fallacies

Doctors for Integrity in
Research & Public Policy
Edgar A. Suter, MD, Chair
5201 Norris Canyon Road
Suite 140
San Ramon, CA 94583

[url]www.gunsandcrime.org/suter-fa.html[/url]

Posted: 7/15/2001 3:55:38 AM EDT

[#26]

Here is a good link on how "Anti" they truly are: [url]http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2230[/url]

Posted: 7/15/2001 6:40:48 AM EDT

[#27]

Keep up the pressure. I sent in my e-mail!
Thanks for the info. Keep the facts, and website addresses near your computer so you can include them in your e-mails. Who knows, maybe whoever reads the e-mails people send will look up a pro-gun/pro-truth site and get educated, even if their CEO's don't.

Posted: 7/15/2001 6:56:13 AM EDT

[#28]

Well, I just mailed them:

This is from your "The Excuses you hear" page:

---------------------------------
"I need to keep my gun nearby, so if a robber comes into the house I can protect my family."

Homes with guns are much more likely to have a murder or suicide of a family member than in homes without guns.

Remove any guns from the house. If a gun must be kept, keep it in a locked box and store bullets locked up somewhere else."
--------------------------------

You may want to reconsider putting this on your website, as you are angering a lot of gun owners, many of whom are your customers. Is this the official policy of Lowes or was it put there by a misguided web designer? If Lowes is against the lawful ownership of firearms, please let me know, so I (and my friends) can begin shopping at Home Depot. No company has any business telling me to dispose of my firearms, or even how to store them in my home.

Thank you for your timely response,

Posted: 7/15/2001 7:11:53 AM EDT

[#29]

Here is what I sent them
"Before you put any comments about guns and gun ownership for self-protection on your web site, you need to get the facts straight.
Your comments are wrong and nothing more than a lie to promote the ANTI-GUN movement. Also you need to stick to what you know,i.e 2x4's and building materials. If Lowes is truly anti-gun, then I have spent my last dollar with you and will encourage others to do the same. I would encourage you to remove any statements from you web site that are not factual".

Marc
Texas City, Texas

GIB
[sniper]

Posted: 7/15/2001 7:51:20 AM EDT

[#30]

I am working up an e-mail now. I also sent the link to five family members who will no longer shop at Lowes.

The E-mail:
In regard to your "excuses you hear" page. Your fact that homes with firearms are more likely to have an accident is absolutely FALSE. You may be surprised to find that I am glad you placed that on your web site, now I know that I will not shop at your store ever again. In addition, I have informed five family members who are also now FORMER customers. Have a nice day.

Posted: 7/15/2001 8:11:00 AM EDT

[#31]

Please try to keep it civil when you do respond. People who didn't care will get defensive when challenged in an obnoxious manner. Stick to the facts, don't feel you need to editorialize too much.

Remind them
1) How much you've spent there
2) That you find their political meddling offensive.
3) They're using inaccurate and biased sources.
4) You'll be taking your business elsewhere.

I suspect, that most of the corporate folks at lowes don't care. This could well be the result of one vocal person in the right place. Or a department. The notion that you risk alienating 50% of your customer base should get the attention of any business person. I realize not everyone boycotts, but even losing a chunk of customers the size of the NRA membership would send a business reeling. And large companies that have been around a while usually understand the value of long term customer good will, and not just sales this quarter.(Witness Remax's use of hot air balloons, and school appearances. How many 2nd graders buy real estate?)

Posted: 7/15/2001 8:19:55 AM EDT

[#32]

Heres what I sent them!

Can you please give me the source of the statistics that you used as a basis for the ridiculous statements made in bedroom safety and
the excuses you hear? In return I will provide you with solid,verifiable data proving that education combined with responsible and safe quick access storage saves lives and property EVERY DAY! (I am not holding my breath waiting for your answer) TC

Posted: 7/15/2001 8:25:42 AM EDT

[#33]

For all of you who seem to think that companies being able to drug test is okay, here is another example of a company delving into the private lives of employees. Some will say 'but this is different', to which I say 'bull'. First, drug testing, now gun control, what freedom is next? Whatever your opinion on pot, etc, this is still more infringement on people's privacy.

Posted: 7/15/2001 9:27:14 AM EDT

[#34]

My e-mail went out, I am too stupid to have saved it of course, but the jest was:

I have lived in a house with a loaded gun all my life. At 17 I joined the Army, in "94" I retired, I have kept a loaded gun in the house sence I got married. I have rasied 3 daughters and have 4 grandchrildren, all that time and not one death due to the gun. I have been a contractor sence"94". I was really happy when Lowes opened a store in Colorado Springs, but that has changed, most of the people I hang with are contractors, and hunters, and all are a bit upset with Lowes apparent stance on gun control. Seems Home Depot gained and Lowes loses.

Posted: 7/15/2001 9:51:21 AM EDT

[#35]

Anybody know what other businesses they're into?

Posted: 7/15/2001 10:58:36 AM EDT

[#36]

Done. My email via their website...

I am greatly disturbed that you are promoting false information in your "How to" section regarding firearms. Your claimed "fact" that households with guns are more likely to have a suicide or murder is a lie based on Arthur Kellerman's (Emory University)faulty "research". Kellerman's lies have been exposed by multiple researchers, including Gary Kleck of FSU and John Lott of Yale (formerly of University of Chicago). Please check your facts a little more thoroughly before you tell customers how to keep their families safe.

A Lowe's and Home Depot are approximately equal distances from my house. Both have roughly the same pricing. In the past I have frequented both about the same. In the future I will be doing all my home improvement shopping at Home Depot. When you point out your mistaken information I will be happy to shop at Lowe's again.

Posted: 7/15/2001 11:44:17 AM EDT

[#37]

Whoo. Thanks for the good info! I'm working up an email right this moment. And even better? My roomie and I just returned the $300 worth of lawn care products we bought yesterday.

They wanted a reason, and we gave it to them.

The manager that came over to us was rather displeased with the reason, and the explanation that Lowe's policy had just removed any of our future business from his store. But he avoided a fiasco and allowed us our refund. [8D]

Posted: 7/15/2001 12:11:12 PM EDT

[#38]

Just forwarded the Lowes page along with the mirrored sites to the NRA. I also asked how they will disseminate the information. The more people that contact them the better the chance of them actually making this matter "main stream". Keep up the good work everyone!!

Posted: 7/15/2001 12:24:22 PM EDT

[#39]

How about a "buy and return day" for Lowes? Everyone can go on a predetermined date, buy something real expensive, then after going through the checkout line, head straight for customer service and return the item stating it is because of their anti-gun policy.

Posted: 7/15/2001 12:43:31 PM EDT

[#40]

One other note people, when writing your letter, make sure you tack on the word "Radical" to the left wingers names. IT has worked for them against us in the past and it is now time to turn the tables.

Posted: 7/15/2001 1:56:02 PM EDT

[#41]

A couple of weeks ago, I picked up a 3/8 De-Walt drill. This afternoon it went back (unused). I explaned to the the clerk at the customer service desk the reason for its return. He along with the two ladies working the counter stated they were unaware of the companys anti-gun propaganda. The few customers standing next to me voiced their support and told the clerks they wouldn't be back to shop in Lowes again.
Sure made me feel great.

Posted: 7/15/2001 4:03:58 PM EDT

[#42]

Originally Posted By LARRY G:
For all of you who seem to think that companies being able to drug test is okay, here is another example of a company delving into the private lives of employees. Some will say 'but this is different', to which I say 'bull'. First, drug testing, now gun control, what freedom is next? Whatever your opinion on pot, etc, this is still more infringement on people's privacy.

View Quote

Larry, there is a HUGE difference there. If I as an employer choose to hire you, and put into the contract that you are to remain drug free and I have the right to test, then if you still use drugs and get caught its your fault.

If you actually support people being free to do what they please with their bodies, how can you not support the right of employers to require employees to meet certain requirments to work for them? There is a word of difference between manadatory testing by the government and testing that you consent to when you AGREE TO A CONTRACT. And there is a word of difference between that and a company putting out blatantly wrong info that affects the rights of everyone.

I believe that people should be free to do whatever they please to their bodies, no matter how stupid. But I also believe that as an employer I should be free to put whatever terms of employment into the contract with my employees that I want.

Posted: 7/15/2001 5:53:00 PM EDT

[#43]

Fired of a letter (not that they really care). As for Home Depot, did y'all forget that they have been giving money to the fags as part of their "diversity". I'll stick to the local hardware store as long as they stay in business.

Posted: 7/15/2001 6:08:14 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
As for Home Depot, did y'all forget that they have been giving money to the fags as part of their "diversity".

View Quote

No I haven't forgot but HD isn't suggesting I surrender my civil liberties. As disgusting as you and I might think it is, what the queers do in their bedroom is their own business.

Quoted:
I'll stick to the local hardware store as long as they stay in business.

View Quote

So do I. It costs me a little more money, but that money stays in the community and the workers there are just as Pro-Liberty & anti-UN as I am.

Posted: 7/15/2001 6:56:49 PM EDT

[#45]

Here is a copy of what I sent :

"I just read your "excuses" page and I am appalled at your anti-gun, anti-self protection, anti-freedom statement!!! Your moronic opinion that gun owners are suicidal & family murderers is totally absurb!!!
As far as I am concerned, people with radical left-wing agenda's such as yours should be held accountable for each & every rape, murder, assault etc. that occurs in homes where the occupants are deceived into believing that guns are inanimate objects which have the evil satanic power to turn good people into vicious killers.
Because of your radical left-wing policy I will no longer shop your stores & I will aggressively encourage all of my family members, friends, neighbors & my 40,000+ contacts over the internet to do the same!!!"

Damn they piss me off!!!

ColtShorty

GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted
and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do
these things to other people and I require
the same from them."

Posted: 7/15/2001 7:15:15 PM EDT

[#46]

Here is a copy of my letter to the sellout's

----Snip-----
About you removing guns from the home statement I am outraged at your companys view! My father is so upset he can't think straight! He is a builder and has bought about $70,000 in building material and supplies from your company in the past year and a half. Yes it may not be much but it is an amount your comany will never see again. He is going to instruct his employees and friends to steer very clear from you buisness from now on. Home Depot has suffered the same fate for their view's as well. There are other companys that will take our business and have the pro gun attitude.
Thank you for selling out our free nation! With your help it will not be so free in the years to come.

Ex-customer, Greg ****
----End Snip----

F'ing commies!