I went to one of the gun shops in town and with and envelope to send out for new gun. I sked the owner for a copy of his FFL so I could have an 8mm Mauser and an AK type rifle sent there. He told me that he does not do that anymore becuase it was taking business away from his shop. He asked what was I ordering and I told him and he said why dont you buy the AK from Directly from me. I told him I got a really good deal on it. (His AK was almost $600). So I went over to another shop I did business told them what I wanted he gave me the copy and told me please pick it when it gets here. To many people were having stuff sent there and were wating months to pick it up. Well anyways I cant figure out why the guy at the first store was such a pain. He gets his $20 for each gun, it is not much work. I realize he runs a business and has a family but $600 for an AK is a little high. And its not like I never do business with him. Anyway just had to vent.


Six

Oh man, sorry to hear you get crap.  My gunstore today dissassembled my new Rem 700 and oiled it up and checked to see if he could do a quick trigger job (which he'd do for free) he couldn't, and then it begun to rain hard, so his son who helps run the shop gave me a RIDE home in his truck with my new rifle.  How's that for customer service?

[):)]
NSF

well hes probly just pissed that u dint buy his over priced ak and then asked him hey i want to buy a ak from another guy can i get it shipped here? if i was him i would do the transfer and lower the price of my ak so it would sell

I realize they guy is in business to make money, but if he would of asked how much did I pay for it and brought the price down to within $50 of the one I was ordering I would of bought it. I would not of had to pay shipping interest on my Visa or the FFL charge and he could of sold his rifle. He might of made $350 profit on it but he would of made more money than just the transfer.


Six

All of the FFLs in  my area make a good profit on transfers. Most of them want a percentage of the sale price plus sales tax. The other ones want a flat fee plus sales tax.

My local gun shops FFL fee is $100 per gun.  Does that count as giving you heck?

This never ceases to amaze me.

First, it is THEIR FFL. THEY PAID TO HAVE IT. In addition they have operating costs and overhead. I don't know how this got started, but the firearm business is the ONLY one I've ever seen where "some" customers feel entitled to negotiate on the owners license. UNBELIEVABLE.

Second, we ALL bitch about FFLs becoming a dying breed. But some of us are responsible. We expect to just operate on the "other guys" FFL, thereby saving ourselves the cost and responsibility of being a dealer but still buying at dealer price. And this to avoid paying "in most cases" a standard 10% dealer fee. EVERY other retail business marks up product about 40% and we are trying to beat one of "our" guys out of 10%. LOVELY.

And then, these same guys expect dealers to appreciate the business and kiss their ass with undeserved customer service. All for being able to pocket that $25.00 transefer fee. Looks like those kids can go to college after all. Harold made $25.00. Woo Hoo!

You guys piss and moan about K Mart hoses the gun owner, Wal Mart hoses the gun owner. Do you think you can call Mattel and order a Malibu Barbie at cost and then pick it up at your local Kmart for 10%? Can you do this with ANY other business? "Yeah, PORSCHE...I'd like to order a 911 Turbo....Please send it to Joe's Fine Autos...Now that is dealer cost right?....Good.......Hey Joe here's $25.00, thanks."

I don't know why ANYONE would want to be a FFL. Bad enough to deal with the gun laws and public opinion, but even worse is the fact that at least half of your so called customer base has EXACTLY this attitude. These guys chose THIS business because they love guns and support your rights. And this is how they are repaid?

So what, the AK was $600.00 and YOU didn't like the price. Don't buy it, shop elsewhere or pull your own license. But for the love of god, quit bitching about the bad FFL man wouldn't give it to me at "cost."

I think you need to build up a relationship with a FFL holder. Also it is wise to ask him/her before you make the deal. Nothing worst than making a deal with a seller and then trying to line up a FFL to receive it.

OSA

I would never ask a local FFL to do a tranfser from another shop.  I only do it for purchases from individuals.  To begin with they, the local shop, have the best prices I have seen.  I have had had a rifle and a shotgun come in to one shop, a pistol to another, a shotgun to another, and a rifle to my department.  I bought a LEO Colt 9mm for out of state, very hard to find, $10 fee.  I buy a 11-87 Police from out of state, way below market price, $20 fee.  I buy my wife a limited edition Alaska Glock 27, only 100 made and all shipped to on wholesaler in Alaska, I go to get the FFL copy from the first dealer, they ask why I didn't buy it from them.  They say the fee is now 10% because a guy bought a $2000 O/U and had it sent in.  They sold the same gun, and were mad.  That guy basiclly was avoiding paying sales tax, the price was about the same from both dealers.  I explain that if it something they sell or can get ordered it is one thing, but if I find a good deal on a used or pre-ban they cannot expect me to buy from them.  If I could order a 11-87 Police for $100 below dealer price, or a 1 of 100 limited edition pistol only sold in Alaska and have them find it in one day I would buy it from them, they had no response, and still wanted 10%.  I went two blocks down the road.  This dealer is higher accross the board, but they treat you good.  I told them what I needed, no fee.  The next shotgun, a pre-ban Benelli, very good price, delivered to my gunsmith, no fee.  I know who will do the transfer the cheapest or free, the ones that will do it for free I try not to take advantage of.  The gunsmith did it because I had just had two guns in for work.

SteyrAUG I am with you 100%. The man I do business is a good man. I call him up and tell him to order the gun I want, he orders it and when it comes in he tells me what he can do on the gun. I have never been cheated by him and his prices have always been in line. When I go to his shop he greats me and voluntarily shows me all the new guns he has gotten in since I was there last, he enjoys talking guns and appreciates my business. He gotta eat and pay the heat! I will stay with him even if he  isn't the lowest price.

Rant mode ON [bounce]

When I buy a used car from another citizen I do not have to go to my local dealer and pay him to do a transfer for me because I am not a licensed car dealer.
When I sold my house I did not HAVE to pay a realtor to USE his license.
When I ordered steaks from Texas I did not have to have them shipped to my butcher, and pay him a fee to hand them over to me.
When I order a gun from someone out of state the law forces me to go to a local dealer and use his license.
I do not care to, or want to, but that is what the law says I HAVE to do.  I will grudgingly pay you a fee for this service, but only because I am forced to. I do not WANT to bother you my favorite gun dealer but I am being forced to do so.  
Since we all have to work with the laws we have allowed to be put in place we should find a way to get along with one another and fairly compensate each other for services rendered or else we will all suffer in the end.
Dealers will go out of business and citizens will have no legal way to purchase guns.

Rant mode off [bounce]
PS. I DO respect my gunsmith! Once in a while though I feel like buying something he does not deal with.

Dealer's around here treat people like shit
i went and sold two gun's; I got rid of most of
my collection; iam only down to what i use and like the very most. well he acted like i tried to scam him or something he had a eat sh*t and dye and said bye before i could get any word out
i thought well f*** you buddy kiss my butt and screw you while your at it. iam taking my business else were. there's is a shop its about 35 miles but hell i go were i could get half decent business. if this continue's ill just make my own hunting guns screw this has for wal-mart k-mart screw them too. they can just eat sh*t and die too! dealer's has become real asshole's lately were to blame for everything that goes on.

[b]These guys operate because they enjoy doing it. They're lucky to break even, much less make a profit. [/b]

There making a healthy profit don't let them lie
to you most are shyster's. there in for it for one thing called money.

My guess is that he does transfers like this for people all the time and this was his polite way to tell you he does not like you or want your return business.

I guess it always comes down to people. My advice to any prospective gun buyer is to find a good dealer in your area and stick with them. We all need good dealers in this sport.

Happy Independence Day to all!!!

Yeh, they charge you more for their time.  My old FFL retired and his was $25per.  Looked for a local and was charged $50per.  Still looking for my $25per and I am getting my next purchase at $35per Xfer.  It's coming down so I will stay with the best price.

The guys that won't do FFL transfers are just sticking their heads in the sand.  The internet has created competition (or at least has made more people aware of the competition) and the $600 for a SAR guys are pissed you don't have to buy their overpriced crap anymore.

It is just not that hard to get a FFL that these guys can treat it as some kind of divine license to rip people off.

There is guy here in Cleveland (and not a friend of mine either) who does transfers for $15 a pop.  Pretty good deal and a real nice guy.

This post isn't about getting guns for cost and driving dealers out of business.  All this guy was doing was buying a gun from somewhere else.  

I agree that if the dealer doesn't want to do a transfer, who cares.  Move on.  Some other dealer will.  I wouldn't get pissed at the dealer though, or the customer.  

The dealers either don't transfer or they do and then they set a price.  I pay $15 per transfer.  There was a shop in town that would do them for $50.  Good for them.  They decided that was the price that they needed or wanted to charge.

The whole system is screwed anyway.  Since you have to use a dealer to buy a new gun or transfer one, and since the government actively controls how many dealers there are, we all are getting screwed.

Here is one thing that everyone should remember.  Unless you have entered into some percentage deal with your transfer dealer, you DON'T have to tell them how much it costs!!!

They don't have any need or right to know.  They don't collect taxes on a transfer and have no right to charge you taxes.  Its a transfer, not a sale.  

I tell my dealer what I pay when he asks me, out of courtesy.  I don't have people put receipts in the box with the firearm, but instead have them send the receipt directly to me.

What I pay is my business.  If a dealer wants to do transfers or not is their business.

Dealer #1 $20 per transfer no questions asked
Dealer #2 $20 per transfer if it's a gun he cannot get otherwise he won't do it.

Dealers that don't do these transfers are just plain stupid. They are balking at a government mandated revenue source. I wish the feds would mandate that people that buy the product I sell have to go through me to receive their goods.

If they were smart, they'd understand that under the old way of doing business, they got shit for a private sale that occured through the mail. Now they get to make money on a sale they had nothing to do with. Gee, how dumb can you get? Can you get an dumber? I can't believe the stupidity. I'm still shaking my head....

I pay $10 for a local transfer, and $25 if my FFL needs to ship a copy of his FFL to another state. I have bought guns in his shop as well as “transfers only” dealing. I know for a fact that “internet dealing” has hit a lot of small shop owners hard – and I can understand why some dealers charge a lot for transfers… but sometimes they get unreasonable with their pricing. I guess it is hard to find a balance there.

There used to be three FFL's in the area that did transfers.  The first shop stopped doing them because folks would get the gun and not like it and refuse to pay.  The second shop sold, and the new owner won't do it.  The third shop got closed by the ATF for paperwork problems.  The fourth shop never did them and "never intends to."

I drive about an hour to get to a FFL that will receive ANY TITLE I FIREARM for a flat fee of $20.  His stock is high priced, yes.  ($600 Glocks, $400 Beretta Tomcats, etc.)  But, he lives out in the boonies and is retired.  (The shop is the upper half of his home.)  Other than that, he raises about a dozen goats.

I don't mind paying the extra money to him; he needs it.  And, unlike lots of storekeeps, he KNOWS HIS PRODUCT.  Your auto isn't feeding?  Give him an hour and cover materials used.  Want to test or rent ANY of his used guns (aside from the $1k+ items), just give him $3 and buy a box of ammo.  

He's not into preban or postban stuff.  Yet, he keeps 1-2 on hand for those that do.  He mainly stocks sporting stuff; aside from a postban AR-15 and a postban M1A, the most 'naughty' thing he stocks are 2-3[very politically correct looking] Mini-14 and Mini-30 rifles.  But, he's got a great stock of take-down .22 pump rifles, shotguns, and many good hunting rifles.  He's also got a lot of pre-1898 stuff.  Oh, and he's got more powder and reloading components than you could shake a stick at.

And, you can pay $20 for a year's use at his range or $35 for an entire family.

Fees?  High prices?  Hey, someone has got to make purchasing and maintaining a FFL worthwhile.  Plus, if the dealer lives outside of town, he may not get much yearly business.  Not everyone is Davidson's.

Mike

Actually, I do get gov't mandated work once in a while. What am I saying?

Every so often, I get a call from someone that says "The fire marshal says I need a fire alarm to get my certificate of occupancy..."

While I totally believe that this is an unconstitutional infringement on the guy's property rights, that does not change the fact that he needs what I do, and I'm going to do the job for him and smile all the way to the bank. [:)]

Steyer Aug,

Ruger
KGP161
Online Dealer
$390.00 + $25 Trans. fee + $20 Shipping
                    Total= $435.00
Local Dealer
$500.00 + $41.25 tax Total= $541.25

Unfortunately, this happens all to often.
I support my local FFL when possible.
Psychologically, it's hard to pay $100+ more for something you've already seen for that much less.
At these prices would you?

I'm not going to defend ALL dealers. Many of them, especially those who only do gunshows are just in it for the cash and are priced accordingly. But let's stick with your example.

A Ruger KGP161 6" S.S. Heavy Adjust. Sights. DEALER COST $350.00 + (UPS HANDGUN SHIPPING $25.00) Total cost to dealer $385.00

So just because some asshole on the net wants to try and survive on a $5.00 profit does not make the other buy a ripoff artist. Anyone with a store has massive overhead.

Mr. Average Dealer will charge $385.00 + $35.00 markup. WooHoo. In ANY other business the markup is 40%. That means $385.00 + $140.00 for the dealer. So the $500.00 is not that out of line.

And then you list sales tax and transfers? They don't get that money. Sales tax goes to the state and transfer fees go to whatever agency performs the background check. Now some do live in NICS states and get free transfers. Well they can throw that $25.00 in their pocket. Christ, I spend that on lunch. Do you know they have to keep and maintain your records for 10 years?

But don't worry. Keep buying from the internet guy. When ALL the gun shops go OUT OF BUSINESS the internet guys will be all that is left. Then they will be easy target for those who want to get rid of them altogether. It's not like they have a store or anything actually in the community. And since they only care about money, they will just start selling toasters on the internet. Easy enough, not like they need to change the sign out front.

So everyone just keep nickle and diming your trusty local FFL to death. You'll solve the problem one way or another.

I believe that local FFls need to be supported, but I also believe that fair prices will increase sales and spur customer loyalty. Now that I have a C&R FFl I see a lot of dealer prices and then go to a gunshow or their shop and see these same weapons marked up $200-$250! Is that fair and honest and does that person deserve my patronage? No! If a dealer has fair prices and great service I will drive across town to his shop and pay extra but not to the point of being screwed. I hate hearing dealers boo hoo about not making money but when I can order from places on the web like AIM Surplus or Century or any other online dealer and pay for shipping ($8-$15) and the transfer fee ($25-$40)to a pawn shop and still beat his price by a wide margin then too bad for him, eventually he will go out of business for not being competitive.
     

The list of FFL dealers on Gunbroker.Com, won't they except shipments with no problem?

I'am lookin for a dealer for the LEGP and don't want the hassel of, "if I have it to sell, I won't accept one with my FFL".

MOST FFLs will accept rifles for you for a agreed upon transfer fee. Usually $25.00. Some will not accept a rifle they currently stock. Others will charge a 10% profit.

Best advice, find a local dealer. Agree on ALL fees prior and go from there.

I keep hearing people talk about how their dealer collects tax when doing a transfer.  How is that legal?  If you're buying the gun out of state and the only thing your dealer is doing is accepting the shipment, how can they collect tax?  Sounds like a scam.  The 2 times I've had rifles transferred to a local dealer, they've never asked for tax.  It's none of their business how much if anything I paid for the gun.

USPC40

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This is an example of why a dealer Loses a sale.
It's pretty obvious where the taxes go and I
didn't feel the need to go into such detail.
Transfer fee, well that depends upon the state. I think it's a $5 charge in NY. I could be wrong.

This internet dealer has a L.I storefront an hour from my house.
Try:
[url]http://www.lisc.net/index.htm[/url]

How is he able to offer these prices?
He has the same massive overhead as any storefront and then some.
And it's Yahoo not WooHoo.
E-commerce my friend.
You seem computer literate/savvy.
The way business is conducted has forever changed. Even for the local dealer.


You’re right, it is a scam!
A local dealer tried telling me the same thing.
Needless to say, I gave him an earful.

I guess this the way to earn someone's patronage.
Talk about Nickel and Dime.