Was reading the local news briefs offered  on the Forum. The article in the Des Moines, Iowa paper said that AW's are responsible for 1 in 5 killings of Officers!  I dunno...  

Anyone have some accurate stats?

I think that stat includes all semis. not just AWs

1 in 5 number comes from an analysis of statistics by the VPC from the FBI reports.

They included SKSs, M1 carbines, etc.





I think it comes down to 1 in 8.


- BG

1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it.

Quoted: 1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it.

Does this stat include LEOs killed with their own gun? (All their firearms are "assault weapons")

Quoted: Quoted: 1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it. Does this stat include LEOs killed with their own gun? (All their firearms are "assault weapons")

The report is only broken down caliber and not weapon type so you have to interpret what is going on.  Also unless it was an AR-15 they were shot with their pistol isn't an assault weapon, they weren't banned just the magazines that go in them.

You can find the report at
www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#leoka

The term "assault weapon" is a garbage can, anything can be thrown in there, term.  That's why the term is so insidiously damaging to gun owners and the cause of gun rights.  The term "assault weapon" can include almost any gun the gun banners want to throw in there.
From what I've heard on this site from some of the L.E.O.s down towards the U.S./Mexican border, SKSs are starting to turn up in increasing numbers in the hands of coke runners because they are cheap and available everywhere.  I understand that police officers have been killed with these weapons.  Of course, the SKS is NOT an assault rifle, but it can be (and IS) called an "assault weapon".  
This is a real problem in trying to sort these kinds of stats (alarmist claims) out and getting to the truth.

Quoted: 1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it.

There is no government report about officers killed with "assault weapons". The VPC study only includes data from 1998-2001(41 of 211 officers shot to death were killed with "AWs"). The VPC uses their definition of assault weapon. That definition includes the SKS and the M1 carbine(which account for 11 of those deaths) and any AW type weapon regardless of if it fits the definition of the (now dead)federal ban. They also admit that in many cases the configuration of the weapon used is not really known. So it's one part truth and 3 parts BS to make a great stat for their cause.

More officers are killed by non "AWs" than by "AWs" and thats the bottom line. Hell more officers die each year in accidents while on duty than are killed while on duty with an "AW". I sent an email to VPC asking for more clarification on the stat and where they got the firearm information from, I did not hear back from them.

Take it for what you want.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it. Does this stat include LEOs killed with their own gun? (All their firearms are "assault weapons") The report is only broken down caliber and not weapon type so you have to interpret what is going on.  Also unless it was an AR-15 they were shot with their pistol isn't an assault weapon, they weren't banned just the magazines that go in them. You can find the report at www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#leoka

Just remembering that something like “more than half” of LEOs that die in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon.

Kind of disingenuous to say “We should ban blab bla bla from civilian ownership.” When the item being discussed is actually owned by law enforcement.  They could ban and confiscate all firearms tomorrow… Would not effect that statistic in any way.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it. Does this stat include LEOs killed with their own gun? (All their firearms are "assault weapons") The report is only broken down caliber and not weapon type so you have to interpret what is going on.  Also unless it was an AR-15 they were shot with their pistol isn't an assault weapon, they weren't banned just the magazines that go in them. You can find the report at www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#leoka Just remembering that something like “more than half” of LEOs that die in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon. Kind of disingenuous to say “We should ban blab bla bla from civilian ownership.” When the item being discussed is actually owned by law enforcement.  They could ban and confiscate all firearms tomorrow… Would not effect that statistic in any way.

If I understood it correctly that the VPC had included many officer's weapons as "assault weapons" because many of them used magazines over 10 rounds; thus if said officer was killed with their own weapon they were automatically killed by an "assault weapon."  

I can point to four officers killed locally with a Mak 90 or variant, one killed with a Mini-14 ( a "patriot" killed him), and one with an SKS since 2000. 6 in four years guys.  All within 100 miles of where i'm sitting.  I've been shot at with an SKS myself.

This does not count officers who were hit and survived.   Take it for what you will.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it. Does this stat include LEOs killed with their own gun? (All their firearms are "assault weapons") The report is only broken down caliber and not weapon type so you have to interpret what is going on.  Also unless it was an AR-15 they were shot with their pistol isn't an assault weapon, they weren't banned just the magazines that go in them. You can find the report at www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#leoka Just remembering that something like “more than half” of LEOs that die in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon. Kind of disingenuous to say “We should ban blab bla bla from civilian ownership.” When the item being discussed is actually owned by law enforcement.  They could ban and confiscate all firearms tomorrow… Would not effect that statistic in any way.

Actually as a group officers killed with their own weapon is a small % of all officers killed in the line of duty and a small % of officers shot to death in the line of duty.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it. Does this stat include LEOs killed with their own gun? (All their firearms are "assault weapons") The report is only broken down caliber and not weapon type so you have to interpret what is going on.  Also unless it was an AR-15 they were shot with their pistol isn't an assault weapon, they weren't banned just the magazines that go in them. You can find the report at www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#leoka Just remembering that something like “more than half” of LEOs that die in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon. Kind of disingenuous to say “We should ban blab bla bla from civilian ownership.” When the item being discussed is actually owned by law enforcement.  They could ban and confiscate all firearms tomorrow… Would not effect that statistic in any way. Actually as a group officers killed with their own weapon is a small % of all officers killed in the line of duty and a small % of officers shot to death in the line of duty.

do you have a link to that?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1 in 5 is about the correct percentage of officers killed.  Now if you are talking about officers killed by an assault weapon penetrating their body armor the number averages less than 2 officers per year.  The government  has a report out about this and you can get the numbers from it. Does this stat include LEOs killed with their own gun? (All their firearms are "assault weapons") The report is only broken down caliber and not weapon type so you have to interpret what is going on.  Also unless it was an AR-15 they were shot with their pistol isn't an assault weapon, they weren't banned just the magazines that go in them. You can find the report at www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#leoka Just remembering that something like “more than half” of LEOs that die in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon. Kind of disingenuous to say “We should ban blab bla bla from civilian ownership.” When the item being discussed is actually owned by law enforcement.  They could ban and confiscate all firearms tomorrow… Would not effect that statistic in any way. Actually as a group officers killed with their own weapon is a small % of all officers killed in the line of duty and a small % of officers shot to death in the line of duty. do you have a link to that?

The link in the long quote above will take you to a page that lists all the fbi reports on LEOs killed each year. The newest one up there is 2002 IIRC In there it lists by gun type, some cal listings, it also includes officers killed with their own weapons, officers killed in accidents etc.

I shake my head whenever these gun control advocates say the AWB is necessary in order to "protect cops".  Cop killers are the most hardened of criminals with the longest criminal records of all offenders.  There are no known cases where law-abiding citizens beging their criminal history by purchasing an AR and killing a cop.
If liberals were really interested in "protecting cops" they would get these hardcore criminals off the streets for good.  Of course, they would lose one of their great rationalizations for Gun Control...

Does it really matter WHAT LEO's(or anyone else, for that matter)are killed with.  Last time I checked Murder is illegal. Don't worry about the weapon, worry about the action. It doesn't matter if you're killed with an "AW" or a baseball bat, you're dead and the person that did it commited a crime-murder, so stick their ass in the gas chamber or inject them and be done with it.

Quoted: I can point to four officers killed locally with a Mak 90 or variant, one killed with a Mini-14 ( a "patriot" killed him), and one with an SKS since 2000. 6 in four years guys.  All within 100 miles of where i'm sitting.  I've been shot at with an SKS myself. This does not count officers who were hit and survived.   Take it for what you will.

I remember a couple of those ones, John.  

I also remember at least 2 or 3 instances where an officer was run down by a drunk in a car in the last few years.  

Take it for what you will ;)

(how you been doin man?  I'm finally gettin back around on here... found a way to get on from work... )  

Quoted: I can point to four officers killed locally with a Mak 90 or variant, one killed with a Mini-14 ( a "patriot" killed him), and one with an SKS since 2000. 6 in four years guys.  All within 100 miles of where i'm sitting.  I've been shot at with an SKS myself. This does not count officers who were hit and survived.   Take it for what you will.

'
And how many of those shootings involved the LEO's busting someone for "illegal" drugs?  If I'm cooking meth or growing weed you're damn right I'll defend it from LEO's and I'll use something that'll get the job done too, like a semi-auto rifle.  Stop the "War on Drugs" and LEO's getting shot by AW's will drop 90%.  Too many times people only look at part of the data and come away with a warped view of what is really going on.

I covered that in a piece I wrote last year here.  To get their "one in five" they included deaths involving (not banned) Mini-14s, (not banned) M1 Carbines, and (not banned) SKS rifles.  Without those it drops to one in eight.  I guess that wasn't a big enough scary number!

Note, however, that there's no mention of wanting to ban the other weapons that represent four out of five officers killed with firearms.

Anyway, read the piece.  I went into detail.

If I assault you with a hammer, the hammer is my assault weapon.

Quoted: Just remembering that something like “more than half” of LEOs that die in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon. Kind of disingenuous to say “We should ban blab bla bla from civilian ownership.” When the item being discussed is actually owned by law enforcement.  They could ban and confiscate all firearms tomorrow… Would not effect that statistic in any way.

Wrong.

First only about half of the line of duty deaths involve a criminal act by another person.

Next, most of the time when officers are killed with there own weapons, the officer was attacked by another weapon the BG brought, or was disabled in a physical fight with the BG, prior to the "weapon grab".

The figures are closer to 10% of line of duty "attacks" that result in an officers death are caused by the officers own weapon.

Next AW's are under represented in all criminal acats, compared to other firearms, and are likewise under represented in attacks against LEO's.

The US DOJ did a survey that said less than 2% of firearms involved in crimes are AW's.

NYS has done studies that say 40% of firearms used in crimes are AW's, but they have a "flexible" AW defintion that allows them to include just about anything.

DOJ's less than 2%, is probably very accurate, using the federal AW Ban definition, to classify weapons surveyed as AW's.

Here's the rub. Very few officers are killed with AW's. But in most multiple officer killings, AW's are used.

Quoted: The US DOJ did a survey that said less than 2% of firearms involved in crimes are AW's. NYS has done studies that say 40% of firearms used in crimes are AW's, but they have a "flexible" AW defintion that allows them to include just about anything. DOJ's less than 2%, is probably very accurate, using the federal AW Ban definition, to classify weapons surveyed as AW's. Here's the rub. Very few officers are killed with AW's. But in most multiple officer killings, AW's are used.

Could you find a link to the US DOJ survey so I can rub that in some liberals face one day?

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/guic.pdf

Not a complete study, but it indicates a VA study had 600 homicides 72% of them involving handguns. 10 "assualt weapons" were used, 5 pistols, 4 rifles, and 1 shotgun. That's 1.6%....................................

Page 6

Quoted: Quoted: I can point to four officers killed locally with a Mak 90 or variant, one killed with a Mini-14 ( a "patriot" killed him), and one with an SKS since 2000. 6 in four years guys.  All within 100 miles of where i'm sitting.  I've been shot at with an SKS myself. This does not count officers who were hit and survived.   Take it for what you will. ' And how many of those shootings involved the LEO's busting someone for "illegal" drugs?  If I'm cooking meth or growing weed you're damn right I'll defend it from LEO's and I'll use something that'll get the job done too, like a semi-auto rifle.  Stop the "War on Drugs" and LEO's getting shot by AW's will drop 90%.  Too many times people only look at part of the data and come away with a warped view of what is really going on.

None.  3 died in an ambush.  (Atascosa county) following a domestic argument, that was also racial in nature.  One died responding to a trailer park on the report of a man shooting up the neighborhood (Comal)
One died on a traffic stop.  The trooper was killed becaue the "patriot" thought he was going to get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.  #6 also died as the result of a domestic dispute.

You are way off base with the usual "War on drugs" mantra.

 

www.mcrkba.org/LEOsKIA.pdf

Last page of that PDF,  basically says 0 LEO'd in Maryland dies from an assualt weapon during the 16 year period studied.

Quoted: Quoted: I can point to four officers killed locally with a Mak 90 or variant, one killed with a Mini-14 ( a "patriot" killed him), and one with an SKS since 2000. 6 in four years guys.  All within 100 miles of where i'm sitting.  I've been shot at with an SKS myself. This does not count officers who were hit and survived.   Take it for what you will. ' And how many of those shootings involved the LEO's busting someone for "illegal" drugs?  If I'm cooking meth or growing weed you're damn right I'll defend it from LEO's and I'll use something that'll get the job done too, like a semi-auto rifle.  Stop the "War on Drugs" and LEO's getting shot by AW's will drop 90%.  Too many times people only look at part of the data and come away with a warped view of what is really going on.

The most warped view expressed here is yours.

Either stick with the constructive part of this thread or get out.

Quoted: Quoted: I can point to four officers killed locally with a Mak 90 or variant, one killed with a Mini-14 ( a "patriot" killed him), and one with an SKS since 2000. 6 in four years guys.  All within 100 miles of where i'm sitting.  I've been shot at with an SKS myself. This does not count officers who were hit and survived.   Take it for what you will. I remember a couple of those ones, John.   I also remember at least 2 or 3 instances where an officer was run down by a drunk in a car in the last few years.   Take it for what you will ;)

Doing good.  You going to ACL fest? I'll be working crowd control off of Stratford Ave, 8am to midnight all three days. Stop on by.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can point to four officers killed locally with a Mak 90 or variant, one killed with a Mini-14 ( a "patriot" killed him), and one with an SKS since 2000. 6 in four years guys.  All within 100 miles of where i'm sitting.  I've been shot at with an SKS myself. This does not count officers who were hit and survived.   Take it for what you will. ' And how many of those shootings involved the LEO's busting someone for "illegal" drugs?  If I'm cooking meth or growing weed you're damn right I'll defend it from LEO's and I'll use something that'll get the job done too, like a semi-auto rifle.  Stop the "War on Drugs" and LEO's getting shot by AW's will drop 90%.  Too many times people only look at part of the data and come away with a warped view of what is really going on. The most warped view expressed here is yours. Either stick with the constructive part of this thread or get out.

And just what is so "warped" about my view.  It's not the damn AW's that's getting COPs killed, it's the stupid, unwinnable "War on Drugs" that's putting LEO's into harms way and getting them shot by AW's.  All I'm trying to say is , look at the reasons behind LEO's getting shot with AW's, solve that problem and the other part will go away. IF you can't see that you really need a reality check pard.

Quoted: I can point to four officers killed locally with a Mak 90 or variant, one killed with a Mini-14 ( a "patriot" killed him), and one with an SKS since 2000. 6 in four years guys.  All within 100 miles of where i'm sitting.  I've been shot at with an SKS myself. This does not count officers who were hit and survived.   Take it for what you will.

Again an SKS is/was not an AW by the federal definition(if it's a standard SKS) same with the mini14(if it's a standard one). Since were talking about cops killed with "assault weapons" neither the sks or mini14 would fall into that catagory(again in a standard configuration). So that would actually be 4 in four years, or 1 per year average(though it sounds like yer talking about 4 in one incident am I correct?). Thats a very small number of officers in four years killed by AW(s) how many officers within 100 miles of you died in a car accident in those same four years? how many were killed with non AWs etc?

From VPC
"Still a Threat to Police—One in Five Law Enforcement Officers Slain in the Line of Duty is Killed With an Assault Weapon

The gun industry's evasion of the 1994 ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines continues to put law enforcement officers at extreme risk. Using data obtained from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Violence Policy Center has determined that at least 41 of the 211 law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty between January 1, 1998, and December 31, 2001, were killed with assault weapons.(8) Using these figures, one in five law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty was killed with an assault weapon.

8) The Federal Bureau of Investigation data does not identify the firearm used in some instances, in those cases the type of firearm is listed as "unknown." Therefore, the number of law enforcement officers killed with assault weapons may actually be higher. "

----------------------------------------------------
Number Of Officers Killed By Type of Firearm And Size Of Ammunition (1996-2001):

Handgun:
Year- 96 -- 97-- 98-- 99-- 00-- 01
.22 --- 4 -- 3 -- 4 -- 1 -- 4 -- 1
.25 --- 3 -- 2 -- 3 -- 1 -- 1 -- 1
.32 --- 1 -- 4 -- 1 -- 0 -- 1 -- 1
.357 -- 4 -- 3 -- 3 -- 2 -- 1 -- 4
.38 --- 5-- 10 -- 6 -- 4 -- 4 -- 2
.380 -- 6 -- 3 -- 1 -- 0 -- 3 -- 5
.40 --- 2 -- 4 -- 1 -- 2 -- 5 -- 5
.44 --- 1 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 1 -- 2
.45 --- 3 -- 4 -- 5 -- 1 -- 4 -- 6
.50 --- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1
9mm ---10 -- 9 - 14 - 12 -- 8 - 17
N/R --- 4 -- 2 -- 1 -- 1 -- 1 -- 1

Shotgun:
Year- 96 -- 97-- 98-- 99-- 00-- 01
12 ga - 0 -- 4 -- 1 -- 5 -- 3 -- 4
16 ga - 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
20 ga - 1 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0

Rifle:
Year- 96 -- 97-- 98-- 99-- 00-- 01
.22 --- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1
.223 -- 2 -- 3 -- 8 -- 1 -- 3 -- 1
.270 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1 -- 1 -- 0
.30 --- 1 -- 3 -- 1 -- 0 -- 2 -- 2
.30-06- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1
.30-30- 2 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 3 -- 0
7.62x39-0 -- 5 -- 6 -- 9 -- 1 -- 6
7.62x54-0 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
N/R  -- 0 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0

Adding up all the LEO deaths from .223, .30 & 7.62 rifle rounds between '98-'00, VPC arrives at "41" deaths from "Assault Weapons".

So the geniuses at VPC are able to determine the exact configuration of rifle used JUST by the bullet - Wow - .223 bullet... MUST have been fired from a telestocked, bayolugged pre-ban "assault weapon".

Damn fucking lying assholes!





Well here's some more FACTS about the effectiveness of their "assault weapon" ban on number of LEOs killed:

DOJ - Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed

Six years BEFORE the "Assault Weapon Ban":
Year....Total LEOs Killed...By Handguns...By Other Guns...By Other Methods
1988........78.................63............13..............2
1989........66.................40............17..............9
1990........66.................48.............9..............9
1991........71.................50............18..............3
1992........64.................44............11..............9
1993........70.................50............17..............3
TOTALS.....415................295............85.............35

Six years AFTER the "Assault Weapon Ban":
Year....Total LEOs Killed...By Handguns...By Other Guns...By Other Methods
1995........74.................43............19.............12
1996........61.................50.............7..............4
1997........70.................49............18..............3
1998........61.................40............18..............3
1999........42.................25............16..............1
2000........51.................33............14..............4
TOTALS.....355................240............92.............26

CHANGE...(-14%).............(-19%).........(+8%).......(-26%)

*** So the number of police killed by non-handgun firearms (including "assault weapons") has NOT decreased since the passing of the "assault weapon" ban in 1994 but in fact has INCREASED since the passage of the AWB.

This comes despite the decrease in the number of LEOs killed by all other means INCLUDING handguns.

If the Antis want to use the decline in police officers killed by handguns to support their claim that handgun laws work and that we need more - they should also admit that the "assault weapon" ban has FAILED and should be abandoned.

But no, the Antis NEVER fail, they just keep going, facts be damned.

Facts that coincidentally support their flawed thinking are touted as "PROOF" that gun laws work. Facts that clearly refute their irrational thinking are simply ignored or cast aside for "more study".





And here's the DEFINITIVE report on the effectiveness of the "Assault Weapon" Ban on gun-murders and number of LEO's killed:
"Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994"

The Final Report On The Effectiveness Of The "Assault Weapon" Ban Showed That It "FAILED" To Reduce Gun-Crime -

Quotes from Final Report:
"We were unable to detect any reduction to date in two types of gun murders that are thought to be closely associated with assault weapons, those with multiple victims in a single incident and those producing multiple bullet wounds per victim. We did find a reduction in killings of police officers since mid-1995. However, the available data are partial and preliminary, and the trends may have been influenced by law enforcement agency policies regarding bullet-proof vests."

5.2.3. Assault Weapons and Crime -
"...assault weapons do not appear to be used disproportionately in violent crime relative to other guns"
"Overall, assault weapons accounted for about 1% of guns associated with homicides, aggravated assaults, and robberies" and
"only 2% of guns associated with drug crimes were assault weapons."

5.2.4. Unbanned Handguns Capable of Accepting Large-capacity Magazines -
"The ban on large-capacity magazines does not seem to have discouraged the use of these guns."

6.2.1. Trends in Multiple-Victim Gun Homicides -
"[Studies] failed to produce any evidence that the ban reduced the number of victims per gun homicide incident."

6.3.4. Conclusions -
"[Studies] failed to produce evidence of a post-ban reduction in the average number of gunshot wounds per case or in the proportion of cases involving multiple wounds."

6.4.2. Assault Weapons and Homicides of Police Officers -
"In sum, police officers are rarely murdered with assault weapons."

That's anti-gun BS there's a report on the FBI's press release page but it just lumps everything into "rifles" it doesn't say AW's  or brand names.
So if the libs say " The FBI study says Bushmasters are used more." That's pure BS.