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Posted: 7/27/2004 3:09:28 AM EDT
[#1]
I carry the Kel-Tech P-32 during the hot months fairly regulary. When I have to dress a little nicer i.e tuck in my shirt, it is kind of hard to conceal my 40 cal Beretta 9000.
I have seen the data on 32 auto and know that it can put someone down. Maybe not the fastest put down in the world, but it will work. Expecially since I know I will fire twice. Its all a matter of compromise and what you are willing to put up with. Is my 32 auto a compromise.....yes Does the slim chance that I would need to put down multipul targets quickly given that %90 of the time an attacker flees when incountering an armed citizen, warrent me to to be ucomfortable and change my summer wardrobe. In my opinion.......for me.........no. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 3:18:41 AM EDT
[#2]
I wouldn't have a problem with the .380, but I opted for a slightly larger pistol and carry the P11.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 3:41:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Good question Duke.
And one that we all have to answer for ourselves. When I went to Thunder Ranch, Clint Smith had answered this question by deciding to carry a 1911 .45ACP on his person at all times. He wears a "shoot me" vest to keep it covered up. But in all honesty, I find that the Texas summers are just too hot to wear a jacket. Like you, I wear shorts and tee shirts. Therefore, I carry a Keltec P-32, .32ACP in my shorts pocket at all times. Is it the first pistol I'd want to bring to a fight? Hardly. But a .32 in your pocket is better than a .45 in the gun safe. I have just decided that if I have to pull it and go to work, I will aim for the eyes and empty it. It is better than nothing. The other pistols you mentioned are too large to carry in your pocket. A P-32 or Keltec .380 are the best small pistols on the market. Just shoot them enough to be sure they work every time and then carry them all the time. One word of warning: In Texas, my carry permit has limitations. (Yeah, I know, it stinks, but it's the law.) For instance, I can't leglly carry in a US Post Office. You have to pay attention, as you will forget that you have a P-32 in your pocket. Pay attention and obey the law. But then, you will undoubtably remember, as you are a lawyer.  |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 3:43:54 AM EDT
[#4]
i have a p3at and really like it. It goes with me 100% of the time. my 45 went with me about 40% of the time due to not being able to carry at work. Printing would get me fired.
There are some things you need to know about the keltec. There are lots of sharp edges due to very little flashing removal on the plastic. Recoil is STOUT. get the bersa thunder mag extensions. they hep recoil dramatically and are easier to conceal than that bulky peice of crap keltec is selling for them. i don't see this as a fightiung gun. it's design is close range dump the mag into the bad guy. The gun IS capable of holding a head shot at 15 yrds but i wouldn't want to do it under stress. At point blank 6rounds of .380 will be effective. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 3:59:19 AM EDT
[#5]
I carry my PPK/S from time to time. Never had one jam, or problem of any kind. VERY accurate for a small pistol, very easy to carry.
Given that, I'd prefer a larger caliber, but feel fine carrying the Walther any day. I do not agree in any way with those that say the PPK series is unreliable. In my experience, the PPK/S is as reliable as my SIG's & HK's. It easily fits in to your pants pocket, slime profile, and always goes "bang". |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 4:03:56 AM EDT
[#6]
that must be a state thing. federal law does NOT prohibit it and it is legal here. www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/930.html |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 4:05:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Me too. This is my carry-all-the-time gun, even when I have my .45.  I had a walther hang the hammer up with pocket lint and the hammer would not fall. Not to good for a pocket pistol. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 4:09:24 AM EDT
[#8]
.380 is better than just wagging your dick!
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Posted: 7/27/2004 4:11:09 AM EDT
[#9]
I have 9mm's and also 45's
In the summer when you do not wear sweaters or vests to conceal a holster on your waist, my Kel-Tec P32 is what I have with me. This little baby has never failed me once at the range, and you will forget you have it with you. It makes it hard to go back to carrying a bigger gun. Just have to learn how to hold it. Wave told me to hold it like a tit LOL and I have had no problems since. You can also buy the extended magazine that will give you 10 rounds plus one and the problem about holding it will go away, that is what I have. And yes, with the right ammo, Hydrashock, you bet is deadly. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 4:20:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Yes! And I do trust it EVERY DAY.
That said, you've presented yourself with some good choices as well. Many people LOVE the Walther 380. Personally, I think its trigger sucks, and I don't like the lack of a slide release. I went with the Bersa Thunder 380 Duo-Tone as you pictured. Needless to say that I LOVE that little gun. For $230 you get a GREAT value for the dollar. It is extremely concealable with a Comp-Tac holster (Comp-Tac.com), and it has a MUCH more managable and lighter trigger pull. Thus it's more accurate. There are only a couple problems I've found with the Bersa: 1.) Some light trigger "slop", but that's acceptable because when under stress I will not be caring all that much. Also, I was able to keep ~3.5 inch group at 25 yrds with my qualification shoot using this gun. It's pretty accurate (due to fixed barrel) if you practice with it a lot. 2.) Spare parts are a P.I.T.A., and if you beat the shit out of your guns like I do, you'll need some. The safety lever is cast steel, and I've broken 2 of them (but have about 2500-3000 rds through it). It takes a while (2-3 weeks) for the importer to ship out replacement parts to you...  I don't like it, but now I keep some on hand.I beat the shit out of this gun. I've dropped it a few times, I use it in handgun classes, I carry it EVERY day, I practice drawing/holstering/firing whenever I can (about every week or two), and I've "Torture Tested" it. Basically, this thing LOVES HOT LOADS! Feed her Federal HydraShok or other hot loads... I feed it hotter handloads and she goes all day without a problem. Winchester White box is cheap because they're low-powder loads and use shitty bullets. I've had cycling problems (FTF) with White Box FMJ, and other low-powder FMJs... This is a DEFENSIVE PISTOL, and thus it is most reliable with DEFENSIVE ROUNDS. It'll still work with white box, but you might get a FTF about 1 in every box or two. If you handload, this is a great little gun for you. The Kel-Tec is something I'm looking into because it can still go even more places than my Bersa, but I hate the small hand grip and the trigger is 'iffy' IMHO. Seriously, I think you're overlooking one of the BEST .380s out there I recommend 3 guns from experience with shooting them: Bersa Thunder 380 (good if you're on a budget) Sig 232 .380 ACP (Great gun all-around, but i'm not used to the trigger) . . . . Or... . . Colt Government 380 ACP:  These things give me wet dreams... They're sweet, good trigger pull, just like a 1911, only smaller and no grip safety! Carried Cocked & Locked. ~$450 - $500 I'd stick with those 3 until the Kel-Tec gets more experience and gets some more possible bugs worked out. If you get the Bersa, it'll serve you well, but keep some spare parts ahead of time if you need them. If you get the Colt, you'll definitely be a happy man. If you get the sig, I'm sure you'll love that as well. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 4:30:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Duke, check out the Kahr PM40 before you get a .380. Here are the dimensions of the PM40 compared to a Walther PPK/S:
Kahr Walther Length 5.35 - 6.49 Inches Height 4.0 - 4.44 Inches Width 0.94 - 1.10 Inches Weight 15 - 25 Ounces Thats a .40 caliber pisto much smaller and lighter than a .380. Granted the PM40 is not a plinking piece you would want to shoot all day but it is a serious caliber for self defense. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 4:34:43 AM EDT
[#12]
I carry a Colt Pony .380 sometimes... it's about the biggest gun I can carry comfortably and discretely in my front pocket. Though, admittedly, I do feel more secure when I carry my Glock 26, I do trust the .380 will do its job at close range.
--Mike 
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Posted: 7/27/2004 5:10:37 AM EDT
[#13]
.380 will do just fine if YOU are up to the challange. Use FMJ ammo though. .380 JHP either fails to expand, or if it does expand, it under penetrates. with Ball ammo you'll get enough penetration every time.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 5:19:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Have you looked at the pocket-sized 9mm Kahrs?
 7rds of 9mm is not too shabby. I love to carry my full-sized 9mm K9. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 5:28:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Yes.
I use either a .45 ACP or a .380 Auto, depending on the circumstances. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 5:29:20 AM EDT
[#16]
I would, and do...
 Loaded with 90gr Cor-bon. Functions flawlessly, and I can hit anything I'm aiming at at a reasonable distance. The thing kicks like a mule though. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 5:37:30 AM EDT
[#17]
One tiny word on the kel-tec:
I have little experience w/ small autos, but not long ago I shot a kel-tec, and while it appeared to be a perfectly serviceable firearm, the extended magazine was unreliable due to the fact that my big fat fingers put it in a bind. YMMV, but I thought I should mention this. FWIW, My problem w/ concealing a full-sized auto isn't a matter of if, but WHERE. I mean, small-of-back is comfortable, yeah, but in large groups of people (the checkout line at the bank or wal-mart) I don't like having my gun BEHIND me. You can't face everyone all the time. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 5:49:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Colt Govt .380. Have carried one for years when wearing a bathing suit or fishing shorts. I just put it in a soft pouch holder and drop it in the front pocket.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 6:24:55 AM EDT
[#19]
The PPK/S we shot in the test was very accurate, I could hit a 15" gong at 100yds but the gun still failed at 2500 rounds but with no other stops. It was supposedly the second time the test had been tried, the first gun went about 2K before it broke. The gun got very hot but thats not an excuse. Im not sure if most pocket type guns will ever see that many rounds but I wont take that chance. Id like to know if the Kel-Tec has been tested to failure by anyone. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 6:26:36 AM EDT
[#20]
I would rather trust my life to a .380 than my bare hands!
I like .45 and carry one most of the time. A Kahr .40 is generally my small gun. Now and then, a PA-63. My advice is shoot the gun enough (500 rnds++) to be CERTAIN it will work when needed. A reliable .22 defeats a jammed .44mag every time!! Learn to hit your target reliably, including practice for head shots. .380 may be weak but it can be deadly if properly applied to the problem! |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 6:53:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Go with KelTec. You will carry it. The others. maybe. If you are willing to dress like a geek to conceal your latest tricked out .45 or .50 whatever, go ahead. Concealed carry is more than just hiding your pistol. It is blending into the sheeple. When I see a man wearing a vest at anytime or a fanny pack, I assume he is armed. Which may or may not be a good thing. YMMV.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 7:17:21 AM EDT
[#22]
I had an AMT 380 Backup that was extremely concealable and very reliable. They are much smaller than a PPK or BERSA. A nice gun you can just put in a pocket and no one will see your bulge or Man Purse
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Posted: 7/27/2004 7:23:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Shit, sure as hell beats throwing rocks.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 7:26:22 AM EDT
[#24]
Am I the only one that read the title as "Would you trust your life to a .308?" and thought "Uh, do bears shit in the woods?"
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Posted: 7/27/2004 7:31:13 AM EDT
[#25]
My wife has that S+W Walther.
She loves it and routinely kills Diet Coke cans. I would not want to be in her sight with it and her CorBon's. Now if we could get CCW in frickin Jackson County.... |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 7:35:40 AM EDT
[#26]
Duh !! Well in that case, I'm a complete MORON, and nobody should listen to anything I say ... my excuse is that I get easily confused by your weird non-metric measures 
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Posted: 7/27/2004 7:50:38 AM EDT
[#27]
AimSmall, CCW is coming to Jackson County, you'll just have to wait even longer than the rest of us have.
Thanks for the replies, I posted this before I went to bed last night, checked it before lunch today and holy shit its a 3 page thread! Remember that I have a full size Hi Power under the seat and 62 rounds of ammunition in loaded mags at all times in the car. Most of the time I can get to that Hi Power in 30 seconds or less if properly motivated, as my car is close by. Obviously if I can get to my car my first plan is to drive off if at all possible, and deploy the Hi Power if pinned down somehow. What I'm worried about is a situation where I'm pinned and unable to move to the car without just ending the threat right there, i.e. a gas station robbery where anyone who moves quickly is going to get shot at. Right now, in all honesty, I'm leaning strongly towards a Glock 19 for my first CCW, with a Kel-Tec added later. After the AWB goes away you'll be able to get cheap high-caps for the 9mm mid-size Glock, and I think its a thin, fairly light gun that will be easily hidden with a good IWB holster. I'd consider a Glock 23 but I don't like the unsupported chamber, as I reload for .40S&W and the temptation to reload casings would be too great (and dangerous). I really like the look and quality of the Sig 232 as well but I've never shot one. Never shot a Kahr either, but generally I don't care for double-action-only triggers. Thanks again for all the replies! P.S. Being a lawyer just means I have to worry about being disbarred if I get caught carrying in a post office (which is illegal here in Missouri too!). |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 8:03:01 AM EDT
[#28]
-Duke-Nukem-,
Another good .380 is the CZ-83. It's built like a tank and people who use it love it. They cost a little more than a Bersa, but they can carry up to 13 rounds in the mag. Sort of like a high-class version of the Makarov. For a .380 hollow point that has decent penetration, you might try looking at the Remington Golden Sabres. They use a 102 gr. bullet. For high energy, look at Magsafe ammo. Their MAX .380 ammo should give you over 300 ft./lbs. of energy, but it supposedly isn't as effective in the winter when people wear thick clothing. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 8:22:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Sounds familiar. I carry a G19 concealed when I can (about half the time) and a P3AT ALL the time (whether the G19 is with me or not). I do, however, use a holster - a R.J. Hedley pocket holster, which someone has already mentioned and which I could not recommend more strongly (it's great!) for the Kel-Tecs or any of the other pocket-guns for which he offers holsters.Always something (things, actually) larger in the car, though...
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Posted: 7/27/2004 8:40:31 AM EDT
[#30]
I have a Colt Mustang Plus II and the GF has a Colt MKIV Gov't. model.
I carry a Sig P239 about 95% of the time, which is a pretty small package in itself, but there's times when I need to carry a smaller gun so I'll pop the Colt in my pocket and off I go.Both her Gov't. model and my Mustang are surprisingly accurate. A shooting buddy of mine bought his wife a Bersa Thunder .380 and it's a damn fine gun also. I'd rather carry something a little larger but I'll trust the .380 in a pinch. And once again  all those that think the .380 and the 9MM just aren't enough, step forward and prove your manhood. Let me shoot you with EITHER caliber.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 9:50:32 AM EDT
[#31]
But I bet you'd let me leave the room all the same.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 10:07:11 AM EDT
[#32]
The 380 can be OK, but it is getting on down there. With the small guns available today, the 380 isn't as attractive as it used to be. You can get a 9 or 40 as small as a SIG 230 or PPK.
Think about this. If you have to wear a holster and belt to carry a gun, you might as well carry a 9 or 40. Something like a Keltec or Glock subcompact. Why carry a tiny, underpowered gun in a holster? If you need a gun to carry in your pocket, get a light gun. Not an AMT backup or other too heavy (read all steel) pocket gun. Get a Keltec 32 or a Smith and Wesson 642. Even though a 380 is the same caliber as a 9, you are looking at a 90 grain slug vs a 125. That extra weight is a good thing to have. A 380 is better than nothing, but it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 11:24:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Kahr PM series: www.kahr.com/pistols_front.html
I carry a PM9, and have shot a MK40. Both are in the size range you are looking for. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 11:26:44 AM EDT
[#34]
Yes. P3AT is in my future. Nothing like a good pocket gun for all-the-time carry.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 12:23:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Yup...do it all the time. My Sig 230 with Hogue rubber grips is my usual fair weather carry piece. I'd prefer to carry my Walther P-99 in .40S&W or my XD in .357 Sig but sometimes they are just a bit too big for what I'm wearing. The Sig is virtually invisible regardless of attire.
Shot placement is the key. I use Corbons in all my defensive weapons. Most engagements are going to be at very close range, possibly point blank. Remember your training and try for the head after putting two to the chest. Most perps aren't going to be expecting resistance much less being shot. If you are quick. calm and accurate, you should win because they are not going to be ready. |
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Posted: 7/27/2004 12:47:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Wife has both Bersa and PPK/S. Both handguns have been reliable and accurate. The PPK kicks more though. I would recommend both.
However, the Taurus PT111 and PT145 in 9mm and .45 respectively are very compact. I carry the PT111 and it is comfortable, reliable and accurate. Just a thought. As to the question - I would trust the .380. One would normally deploy such a firearm at close range - I think with proper shot placement, the .380 would be sufficient. Here is the PT145 
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Posted: 7/27/2004 12:58:54 PM EDT
[#37]
I carry a Keltec P3-AT in a Headly pocket holster in he Texas Summer heat.
I just can't bring myself to wear loose untucked shirts and floppy shorts...looks too much like Michael Moore.
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Posted: 7/27/2004 1:32:23 PM EDT
[#38]
I just crossed this same thinking process. With a basic belief any gun is better than none,
I looked at firearms to fit climate conditions and clothing in this case summer with light clothing. I already had a very small .22 revolver which I carry with high velocity HPs, Yellow Jactets, but wanted something with more umph without too much more weight. The .380 and .32 were both on my list. I also have a .38 snub so my carry choices was tiny to medium and very little weight to no weight. I was actually looking for something with a bit more power than the .22 but more rounds than the .38. I looked at the guns available most pictured and mentioned on this thread and opted instead for a Glock 26 9mm. It offered the same size as the .38 snub, lower weight, and more rounds. I have found in combination with a leather holster the Glock conceals well with shorts and shirt. If I had not had the .22, I would have opted for most likely the Keltec to fill that void due to size mainly. It's not often I carry without a shirt on but the little guns do fill that application. Of the guns that I carry I feel more secure with my .45s and 9mms preferring a 15 round capacity mag 9mm over the Glock 26 10 round or .38, however concealed is concealed and one must either do without sometimes or go small. Tj |
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Posted: 7/28/2004 9:24:12 PM EDT
[#39]
If I may suggest that you shoot a few water bottles with the expensive .380 alongside the 9mm.
Afterwards, you may find yourself shopping for a P7. 
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Posted: 7/28/2004 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#40]
I own a Walther PPK (not PPK/S) in .380.
While Da Phoole is laughing at me at owning such a weak gun, I can put a Hollow Point into his open mouth.  “He who laughs last…etc.” |
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Posted: 7/28/2004 9:56:24 PM EDT
[#41]
I usually carry a Sig 232. when i can find them i load it with Cor-Bon 90gr +P. Sometimes i carry something bigger, but i dont feel underguned with the .380.
As many have said, "a mouse gun in your hand is better than a canon at home." Carry what ever works for you, but carry something. you'll be fine with a .380. Ben, The_Emu |
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Posted: 7/28/2004 10:17:55 PM EDT
[#42]
7.65mm is .32 (THIRTY TWO) ACP, not 380! .380 is 9mm Kz |
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Posted: 7/28/2004 10:24:03 PM EDT
[#43]
P.S. PPK jams...
The PPK is, like a 1940's M1911, a pre-hollowpoint design... It will feed FMJ 100%, however it doesn't like some of the new 'fancy' defense rounds... Personally, I have one because it's the biggest gun I can get away with should I need to carry it (a/o glovebox), given that CCW is illegal here. I can hit minute-of-head at 25ft, 1st shot, so who cares about expansion? |
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