As some of you have witnessed the jumbo-sized "telescope" I have mounted to my rifle (see article [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=20270[/url] for what I'm talking about), I have come to the conclusion that I need a smaller scope...and quite possibly a new mount as well.

I will describe some of the scopes that I looked at that were $400 or less (my spending limit), which can also be found in the above topic.......

-Nikon "Monarch" 6.5-20x44 Matte, Fine Reticle, $400
[url]http://www.swfa.com/riflescopes/nikon/index.html[/url]
-Pentax "Lightseeker" 4-16x44 Matte, Fine Reticle, $400
[url]http://www.swfa.com/riflescopes/pentax/index.html[/url]
-Redfield "Golden Five Star" 6-18x40 Matte, Plex(?) Reticle, $330
[url]http://www.swfa.com/riflescopes/redfield/index.html[/url]
-Springfield Armory Tactical .223 (Gov't) Reticle (and bullet drop cmpns.), 4x14-40, $324
[url]http://www.swfa.com/riflescopes/springfield/index.html[/url]
-Weaver "Grand Slam" 4.5-14x40, Matte "Dual-X" Reticle (said it was comparable to a VariX-III, so it can't be all that bad), $325
or
-Weaver "Grand Slam" 6-20x40, Matte, "Varmint" (thin-reticle, dot in middle), $350
[url]http://www.swfa.com/riflescopes/weaver/index.html[/url]
-and then of course is the Tasco series.  There has been nothing but wonderful reviews for their "Super Sniper", from many sources I might add.  The most expensive is about $300 (for the non-M model)
[url]http://www.swfa.com/riflescopes/tasco/index.html[/url]

...someone had also mentioned the ATN 6-18X65LU (which I saw a while back and liked) for $300 at [url]www.aimdiscount.com[/url] .  The only qualm I have with this is that it's 16" long, only 4 inches shorter than mine.  I am looking for a scope within that zoom range (up to 18 or 20X) but around 14" overall length.  That's one of the reasons I'm getting rid of this one; 20" is too flimsy on such a small (in comparison) weaver mount, and it can be moved by putting pressure on the end of the scope.

This brings me to... Scope Mounts.  Mine is fairly decent, a 7.5" long weaver see-thru mount, which can be seen here:  [url]http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=1278646[/url] .  In fact, I believe it is the same brand, Leapers.  The mount, for the price, is fairly stable, but the outer walls of the mount [b]DO NOT[/b] fit perfectly within the walls of the carry handle.  There is a tiny litle bit of space on either side between the outer walls of the mount and the inner walls of the carry handle, and this can, will, and probably does lead to innaccuracy due to slight instability.

If you've kept up with me so far, thanks.  Here are my big 2 questions:

1.) Which of these scopes above would you recommend, as far as price, overall quality, and overall length of the scope are concerned?  If you know of one that's not on the list, but meets my criteria, please don't hesitate to bring it up!
2.) I need a similar size (in length) mount to fit the scope I will be using.  I can make do with this one, but if I'm upgrading my scope I dont see why I shouldn't do the same for my mount:  "..only strong as the weakest link", ya know?  I don't think ARMS makes one similar to this (besides, they are WAAAAY out of my budget), but can you suggest anything fairly inexpensive that will do my dirty work?

This means a lot, gracias...
Jewbroni~

heh heh heh
[img]http://home.earthlink.net/~thegardenweasel/scopes.jpg[/img]

Let me say this as well:

I need a large zoom scope...I do not need a 4X tactical (seen it, don't like it), or a 3-9X (been there, tried that).  My needs are in the "teens", preferably anywhere between 16-20X.  This will be used for competition (non-CMP) shooting at 300 and possibly 600 yards, and a varmint scope at similar ranges as well.

I need a good one, folks.  Please tell me what you think.

Jewbroni~

Can't help you with the scope.
I just bought a Simmons 6.5x-20x 44Mag because it was CHEAP and all I could afford.
I will be replacing it with something nicer when I can eventually afford a (hope hope) Leupold.
I did go with a nice mount and rings, which I'm happy with, and will continue to use once I upgrade the scope.

ARMS #2 mount
Leupold QRW low rings

I Agree with Phil about the cheek weld.
My scope's to high, even with the low riser rings.
When I can afford it, I will be getting a cheek piece. Hopefully that will solve the problem.

Also, the 44mm objective partially blocks the irons and the front sight assembly extends slightly over the bottom of the lens.

However, for me, this is not a problem, even in lower magnifications. Hardly noticeable.

Phil, I will absolutely not use a flattop.  The entire purpose of this rifle is to train me for CMP Service Rifle competition.  The scope's main usage will be:

1.) "Spotting" scope after a group of shots are made on paper w/ ironsights
2.) 300-500 yard varmint scope
3.) See #1 and #2

As far as height, the scope will be fairly high, and I plan on getting a cheekpiece of some sorts fairly soon.  However, most of my shots are from the bench (sighting in, etc) at my local range, so getting a firm cheek pressure is not my concern at the time.  I am primarly concerned with what optics are out there, what optics will give me the most reliable aim out to ??? yards, and what piece of equipment will give me the absolute most "bang for the buck".  I think for $400, I can get a fairly reasonable scope that offers at least good quality, and isn't a piece of junk.

I will probably PUT this rifle on a flattop, yes, after I take it off my current one when I'm ready to have it Service Rifle Comp. ready.  Until then, I need something with range, not to mention to makeup for my mediocre eyesight.

Jewbroni~

Phil...

Allright then, I like the Leupold 6-18X40...I'm REALLY surprised you can get it for under $400 though!  I'll check it out nonetheless...

My MAIN reason for having the scope is to shoot 300 yard matches.  I'm not quite good enough to win with ironsights, so that's where a good medium-sized scope would come into play, and I can practice on 300 yard ranges with my irons between matches.  I'm a college student, and it will be YEARS down the road before I get out and have time to really train for and enter a CMP match, so right now I just want a good scope to WIN these non-CMP matches with.  My training time is used mostly for irons, but as stated: this'll take a few years before I'm competent enough to win with 'em.

I can understand your concern with my "over-trying".  It's not that I'm trying to hard, it's just that I want to do a little of both: train for later, but use the scope NOW.  Maybe that is the flaw I have to get over.  But, if I DO decide to go the spotting scope approach, what is a good 20X or so power (I've heard 20X is the best, with mid-20's coming in closely) Spotting Scope, that I can get for...let's say $300 and under?

Oh and another thing.  If I go with the spotter instead of the riflescope, I will most likely get a small-mount and a 4-6X power "Tactical" scope.  Small, sturdy, but able to hit 100 yards fairly accurately.  Given the $100 budget I have left over from the spotter (assuming I go that route), what is a good mount/scope combination for the fixed carry handle?  I'm not interested in red-dot (I'd rather just use my trusty ironsights) but an actual fixed-power scope.  As much as I love those ACOG's, I'm not gonna spend $800 for one, I'd rather pay 50-100 for a decent standard tactical.

Thanks for helping me out, I'm just trying to find the best option for both my shooting purposes and my equipment needs.

Jewbroni~

Oh, and another thing.  Besides AR15.com (although I doubt anyone here would actually WANT it), where in the HELL am I going to sell this giant riflescope I have on there now?  It's going to be eating a $350 hole in my pocket if I don't get at least some cash back from it.

I suppose I'll save this one then, for when I get a flattop (Way down the road).  It's a great scope as far as light-intake and magnification, would be great for a long range varminter.  I'm just concerned with, especially in it's current setup, the "flimsiness" brought about by having such a long piece of the scope extend over where it is mounted.  I'm sure on one of those "extended dovetail rails", or whatever they are called, this baby will rock.

Until then, I suppose (for investment purposes) I will buy a good spotter.  At least this will be something I can use in the future, especially if I have a shooting coach with me.  I'll check out the optics forum and see what is both a good spotter and a tactical scope combination.  Thanks Phil!

Jewbroni~

Wow, one of my threads got reborn.

Anyway, I took the "Hubble" off of my rifle, and have been shooting much better scores ever since.  The thing, in many ways, ruined my sight picture and I will only put the thing on a flattop sometime down the road.

Im getting a spotter first, but when I do get a scope, it's going to be an ATN 5x33, on a very sight-generous B-Square mount.  If you want to help me out though, riddle me this:  where can I get one of those short (~5" or so) B-Square mounts for under $50?  My uncle claims he got his for around $45, but I haven't been able to match that anywhere I've looked.

The Jew~