User Panel
Posted: 10/4/2013 12:26:10 PM EDT
Hearing on the radio that .Mil has contracted with the local parishes to provide liturgical services for many bases since there's s lack of active duty Catholic chaplains.
With the shutdown, the local priests were told that their services would not be able to be paid for. When the priests offered to volunteer their services to provide for the needs of their military parishioners, or even in cases where the people offered to pay for it, the administration told them that if they attempted to perform their duties on base they faced arrest. I'll try to provide a hard source when I get home, but it sure seems like a pretty plain 1A lawsuit. ETA - title change and clarification. As I stated I heard this on the radio with no direct sourcing provided and thought it might be worth discussion. Thanks to the folks that provided actual and correct sources indicating that while BHO may be gleeful (given his previously expressed disdain for those who practice a traditional religion in America) it's not actually his doing, its sadly another case of governmental rules superseding any form of common sense or sympathy. Regardless of your party affiliation or personal beliefs, that this is occurring should provide more than enough proof that we do not want the government involved in our health care, especially to the amount that it will be in the AHCA. Thanks to the liberals for your snarky sniping. Jay Carney and the rest of the Liberal intelligentsia would be proud of the elitism you displayed in your defense of Dear Leader. Feel free to gloat at your next Potomac area cocktail party, faculty get together, union meeting or Young Pioneers Democrats gathering. I'm sure your retelling of the events surrounding this thread will provide much amusement to your fellow travelers. Thanks also to those who provided evidence supporting that the administration really is making every effort to inflict the most social damage to the ordinary person - including our veterans... a fact that endures despite the misinformation this thread was based upon. [MSM]We now return you to our non-stop coverage of "the end of American Civilization as we know it", brought to you courtesy of Racist Right Wing Anarchist Arsonistic Terrorists, DBA the (R)epublican Party, already in progress...[/MSM] |
|
what .... the .... fuck.....
They are going far beyond retard now... |
|
|
|
They got to make the shutdown sting, otherwise this whole dog and pony show was for nothing.
|
|
Boy they sure aren't letting a good crisis go to waste are they?
I can see some Democrat publicist salivating over the headline: "Republican forced shutdown of government denies worship services to Catholic soldiers!" |
|
It's true. It's on the website for the archdiocese of military services.
|
|
Cue face palm and relax.
This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. BLUF: Contractors with a contract start date of 1 OCT are not authorized to perform work. They are also NOT authorized to provide a gift to the government of their volunteer service. This includes musicians, DREs, and Catholic Contract Religious Ministry Professionals (CRMP). The "Excepted" category includes suicide and substance abuse counseling, other activities authorized by the Secretary of Defense to provide for the safety of life or protection of property" and "Emergency counseling and crisis intervention intake screening and referral services." "Generally speaking, contract for faith specific religious services (including music/religious education/weekend worship) do not fall into the above category because contractors are not first responders and there are uniformed Chaplains/Religious Program Specialists available to provide pastoral care and support in the above situations."
While you can hold services, chapel contractors are not authorized (even if they are willing to volunteer their services) to support your services or religious education. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
so clueless. let me guess, public school education? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
In. And wtf? So much for separation of church and state. so clueless. let me guess, public school education? Hey, it's not my fault you don't understand subtlety and innuendo. |
|
Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. BLUF: Contractors with a contract start date of 1 OCT are not authorized to perform work. They are also NOT authorized to provide a gift to the government of their volunteer service. This includes musicians, DREs, and Catholic Contract Religious Ministry Professionals (CRMP). The "Excepted" category includes suicide and substance abuse counseling, other activities authorized by the Secretary of Defense to provide for the safety of life or protection of property" and "Emergency counseling and crisis intervention intake screening and referral services." "Generally speaking, contract for faith specific religious services (including music/religious education/weekend worship) do not fall into the above category because contractors are not first responders and there are uniformed Chaplains/Religious Program Specialists available to provide pastoral care and support in the above situations."
While you can hold services, chapel contractors are not authorized (even if they are willing to volunteer their services) to support your services or religious education. The truth, it buuuuuuuuuuuurns! |
|
|
Quoted:
Hearing on the radio that .Mil has contracted with the local parishes to provide liturgical services for many bases since there's s lack of active duty Catholic chaplains. With the shutdown, the local priests were told that their services would not be able to be paid for. When the priests offered to volunteer their services to provide for the needs of their military parishioners, or even in cases where the people offered to pay for it, the administration told them that if they attempted to perform their duties on base they faced arrest. I'll try to provide a hard source when I get home, but it sure seems like a pretty plain 1A lawsuit. View Quote Can't allow someone to volunteer to perform work if they have been contracted to perform the same job. It's illegal, believe it or not. That said, those in CONUS could always, you know, go to a Catholic Church out in town. |
|
Wow, guess he really is the Anti Christ after all. Fuck you Barack Hussein Shitstain!
|
|
|
|
The restriction only applies to those that are current employees, either contracted or GS. It is the exact same restriction for all furloughed federal employees. A local Catholic priest who is not a DoD employees would not be prohibited from volunteering his time. The problem, though, is what to do where there aren't any that can do this.
Obama didn't order it. Congress is the one who makes these rules And GD is the place where people were chearing this on. Now, it seems like everyday a new "well, we didn't mean that" exception pops up. http://www.milarch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dwJXKgOUJiIaG&b=8486699&ct=13344123 |
|
Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. BLUF: Contractors with a contract start date of 1 OCT are not authorized to perform work. They are also NOT authorized to provide a gift to the government of their volunteer service. This includes musicians, DREs, and Catholic Contract Religious Ministry Professionals (CRMP). The "Excepted" category includes suicide and substance abuse counseling, other activities authorized by the Secretary of Defense to provide for the safety of life or protection of property" and "Emergency counseling and crisis intervention intake screening and referral services." "Generally speaking, contract for faith specific religious services (including music/religious education/weekend worship) do not fall into the above category because contractors are not first responders and there are uniformed Chaplains/Religious Program Specialists available to provide pastoral care and support in the above situations."
While you can hold services, chapel contractors are not authorized (even if they are willing to volunteer their services) to support your services or religious education. That is just total bullshit. I can just see it now. To the badly wounded soldier on the litter, "I'm sorry son, I wanted to pray with you but my contract just ended and they won't let me pray for you for free" That is what that amounts to. |
|
Why is this only directed at Catholic Priests? No other clergy?
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
Because the OP heard it on the radio, presumably talk radio, and when has that ever been interested in giving you the whole story? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is this only directed at Catholic Priests? No other clergy? Because the OP heard it on the radio, presumably talk radio, and when has that ever been interested in giving you the whole story? yeah...we need the full story...like MSNBC supplies. |
|
Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. BLUF: Contractors with a contract start date of 1 OCT are not authorized to perform work. They are also NOT authorized to provide a gift to the government of their volunteer service. This includes musicians, DREs, and Catholic Contract Religious Ministry Professionals (CRMP). The "Excepted" category includes suicide and substance abuse counseling, other activities authorized by the Secretary of Defense to provide for the safety of life or protection of property" and "Emergency counseling and crisis intervention intake screening and referral services." "Generally speaking, contract for faith specific religious services (including music/religious education/weekend worship) do not fall into the above category because contractors are not first responders and there are uniformed Chaplains/Religious Program Specialists available to provide pastoral care and support in the above situations."
While you can hold services, chapel contractors are not authorized (even if they are willing to volunteer their services) to support your services or religious education. This is all true. If the services were/are contracted for, by law you cannot offer those services for free or donate the. You will be arrested. This is only the case because the .mil is contracting out to the church for the services. It's a contracting law issue, not an Obama issue, other than the fact that they have been listed as non-essential. Obama actually doesn't have any say in it, it's the law. Although, in general, FBHO. |
|
Quoted:
yeah...we need the full story...like MSNBC supplies. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is this only directed at Catholic Priests? No other clergy? Because the OP heard it on the radio, presumably talk radio, and when has that ever been interested in giving you the whole story? yeah...we need the full story...like MSNBC supplies. Or like some of our more rational members have provided... |
|
Quoted:
Can't allow someone to volunteer to perform work if they have been contracted to perform the same job. It's illegal, believe it or not. That said, those in CONUS could always, you know, go to a Catholic Church out in town. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Hearing on the radio that .Mil has contracted with the local parishes to provide liturgical services for many bases since there's s lack of active duty Catholic chaplains. With the shutdown, the local priests were told that their services would not be able to be paid for. When the priests offered to volunteer their services to provide for the needs of their military parishioners, or even in cases where the people offered to pay for it, the administration told them that if they attempted to perform their duties on base they faced arrest. I'll try to provide a hard source when I get home, but it sure seems like a pretty plain 1A lawsuit. Can't allow someone to volunteer to perform work if they have been contracted to perform the same job. It's illegal, believe it or not. That said, those in CONUS could always, you know, go to a Catholic Church out in town. Quiet you! We're rabbling here and grabbing pitchforks! Didn't you read the strawman in this thread that said if a soldier is wounded in combat and someone tries to pray with them Bareefer Obonghit "B-Rock the Islamic Shock Superallah" HUSSEIN will personally fly in and behead them as part of his jihad? |
|
Quoted:
The restriction only applies to those that are current employees, either contracted or GS. It is the exact same restriction for all furloughed federal employees. A local Catholic priest who is not a DoD employees would not be prohibited from volunteering his time. View Quote I don't know if that is true. because there is a cvontract in place with a contractor, I don't believe the Govt can accept any donation of those contracted services from anyone. It would be a violation of the contract with the original contractor as well. |
|
Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. View Quote You're assuming their contracts are new and or haven't been funded with isn't necessarily true. |
|
Curious - in any previous shutdown has this ever been applied?
http://www.milarch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dwJXKgOUJiIaG&b=8486699&ct=13344123 |
|
Excellent! The Obama administration is publicly showing their true colors. This stuff needs to be Tweeted and Facebook-ed like crazy!
Libs like to "raise awareness"....well, let's raise some "awareness". |
|
|
|
Quoted:
Excellent! The Obama administration is publicly showing their true colors. This stuff needs to be Tweeted and Facebook-ed like crazy! Libs like to "raise awareness"....well, let's raise some "awareness". View Quote Yeah! Inaccurate soundbytes are exactly what we need to raise awareness of! |
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
That is just total bullshit. I can just see it now. To the badly wounded soldier on the litter, "I'm sorry son, I wanted to pray with you but my contract just ended and they won't let me pray for you for free" That is what that amounts to. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. BLUF: Contractors with a contract start date of 1 OCT are not authorized to perform work. They are also NOT authorized to provide a gift to the government of their volunteer service. This includes musicians, DREs, and Catholic Contract Religious Ministry Professionals (CRMP). The "Excepted" category includes suicide and substance abuse counseling, other activities authorized by the Secretary of Defense to provide for the safety of life or protection of property" and "Emergency counseling and crisis intervention intake screening and referral services." "Generally speaking, contract for faith specific religious services (including music/religious education/weekend worship) do not fall into the above category because contractors are not first responders and there are uniformed Chaplains/Religious Program Specialists available to provide pastoral care and support in the above situations."
While you can hold services, chapel contractors are not authorized (even if they are willing to volunteer their services) to support your services or religious education. That is just total bullshit. I can just see it now. To the badly wounded soldier on the litter, "I'm sorry son, I wanted to pray with you but my contract just ended and they won't let me pray for you for free" That is what that amounts to. It's no different, legally, than the guy contracted to cook food, clean heads, mow the grass or take out the trash. Thre's enough herp derp with all of this without creating more things to get in a snit about. |
|
|
Quoted:
That is just total bullshit. I can just see it now. To the badly wounded soldier on the litter, "I'm sorry son, I wanted to pray with you but my contract just ended and they won't let me pray for you for free" That is what that amounts to. View Quote No it doesn't. I won't say that your post is the dumbest thing I've read all day, but it's in the top 3. |
|
Quoted:
Why is this only directed at Catholic Priests? No other clergy? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Because there is worldwide shortage of Catolic Priests. There is a chronic shortage of active duty Catholic chaplains. While roughly 25% of the military is Catholic, Catholic priests make up only about 8% of the chaplain corps. There are sufficient uniformed Chaplains of other faiths. In order to supplement the military contracts Catolic Priests to perform services. So a Priest from a parish in the area is contracted by the military to travel to the installation and perform Mass. Some may travel overnight to do this at a very rural installation. |
|
Quoted:
Why is this only directed at Catholic Priests? No other clergy? View Quote Right now there is a shortage of Priests in DoD. Not sure why that is, but the services have had to contract for Priests due to the shortage. Other Christian faiths have adequate representation in the Chaplain Corps right now, so only Catholic Priests are being contracted for. |
|
Quoted:
You're assuming their contracts are new and or haven't been funded with isn't necessarily true. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. You're assuming their contracts are new and or haven't been funded with isn't necessarily true. He isn't assuming. He's stating with authority. He's in a position to know. |
|
Quoted:
You're assuming their contracts are new and or haven't been funded with isn't necessarily true. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. You're assuming their contracts are new and or haven't been funded with isn't necessarily true. I'm not assuming anything. FT14 starts on 1 Oct 2013. A mutli-year contract is still funded year-to-year. FY14 funds have not been released. Where do you suppose I got the quoted text I posted? |
|
Let them arrest. Call their bluff. Pile shit upon shit. Piss off the proletariat.
|
|
Quoted:
In. And wtf? So much for separation of church and state. View Quote There is nothing in the Constitution that says church and state must be separate, that was an article in the federalist papers IIRC. The only thing that the Constitution says is that there cannot be a "state" religion. |
|
I'ld go ahead and do my job, arrest me if you want! I have God on my side !!!
|
|
Quoted:
Right now there is a shortage of Priests in DoD. Not sure why that is, but the services have had to contract for Priests due to the shortage. Other Christian faiths have adequate representation in the Chaplain Corps right now, so only Catholic Priests are being contracted for. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is this only directed at Catholic Priests? No other clergy? Right now there is a shortage of Priests in DoD. Not sure why that is, but the services have had to contract for Priests due to the shortage. Other Christian faiths have adequate representation in the Chaplain Corps right now, so only Catholic Priests are being contracted for. Probably because they are the only ones who take a vow of poverty, and wouldn't feel comfortable making Major or LtCol pay like all the other god squad does. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.