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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:18:26 PM EDT
[#1]
F-22
Super Bug F-15 F-16 |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:18:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I don't know much about fighter Jets except that I would rather fly one to work and the grocery store then drive my car. I always thought the F-16 looked cool and better then most other Fighter. So where does the F-16 sit on the totem pole of fighter jets? Good 4th Gen Fighter. 
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:19:05 PM EDT
[#3]
I've seen top gun, haven't you?
We all know the F-14 is the best
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:23:51 PM EDT
[#4]
sold from the get go to everyone and anyone who wanted a 2nd best fighter and could pay for them, not much else to really tell.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:25:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: F-22 Super Bug F-15 F-16 For American fighters. Vs. Russian made jets, well despite their blustering I think that an F-16 could go toe to toe with any of those flying trash cans and come out happy. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:25:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I don't know much about fighter Jets except that I would rather fly one to work and the grocery store then drive my car. I always thought the F-16 looked cool and better then most other Fighter. So where does the F-16 sit on the totem pole of fighter jets? Depends. It is a light 4th gen fighter. Comparable to a Mirage 2000 or modernized MIG-29s. From everything I have read, the Block 60 F-16s are superior to both of those planes overall. You can't compare it against F-15s or Flankers because they are not in the same class. Same with an F-22. So yes, it is a rather good plane. Of course, the F-35 is replacing it... so it is probably no longer the best.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:26:25 PM EDT
[#7]
According to comments by valheru21 and bullf-16 a comparison between the superbug and the viper goes like this
A viper never wants to go slow against a bug. A bug never wants to try more than two turns with a viper. Beyond that I don't think too many other people can really say based on experience. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:31:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: It depends on who is flying them. It's all in the training. Quoted: F-22 Super Bug F-15 F-16 For American fighters. Vs. Russian made jets, well despite their blustering I think that an F-16 could go toe to toe with any of those flying trash cans and come out happy. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:52:53 PM EDT
[#9]
So how would an exceptional F16 pilot do against a not so good F18 or F22 pilot?
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:56:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
So how would an exceptional F16 pilot do against a not so good F18 or F22 pilot? probably beat the bug but be dead meat for the 22. The F22 is so far beyond anything fielded by anyone else today that its almost cheating. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:56:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: It depends on who is flying them. It's all in the training. Quoted: F-22 Super Bug F-15 F-16 For American fighters. Vs. Russian made jets, well despite their blustering I think that an F-16 could go toe to toe with any of those flying trash cans and come out happy. I read an article not too long ago that said Russian fighter pilots get about 10% of the flight time that US pilots get. NATO and Israeli pilots might be competent enough to challenge our boys in the air, but the Russkies, Chinese and pretty much everyone else are DOA. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:57:27 PM EDT
[#12]
This explains it well. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 5:59:22 PM EDT
[#13]
making popcorn as we speak. Nothing brings out fanbois like a good fighter jet thread.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:00:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So how would an exceptional F16 pilot do against a not so good F18 or F22 pilot? probably beat the bug but be dead meat for the 22. The F22 is so far beyond anything fielded by anyone else today that its almost cheating. The F 15 is probably the most successful fighters of all time, with a kill ratio of 100+to 0. 
When the Raptors first started flying against them ,it wasn't "the Eagles put up a good fight,but we won in the end" The Raptor pilots said "It was like clubbing baby seals" 
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:01:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Always thought the F-16 was awesome as a kid. This video is legit. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:02:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Dos Gringos make some pretty good tunes for some F-16 drivers! "The pilot song" is probably my favorite.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:05:50 PM EDT
[#17]
I thought the F-16 was the Falcon. They call it the Viper also?
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:06:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: A hornet does not want to fight a Viper 2 circle, they much prefer 1 circle fightsAccording to comments by valheru21 and bullf-16 a comparison between the superbug and the viper goes like this A viper never wants to go slow against a bug. A bug never wants to try more than two turns with a viper. Beyond that I don't think too many other people can really say based on experience. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:07:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Always thought the F-16 was awesome as a kid. This video is legit. "single seat, multi-role, we can fly right up our own asshole!" |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:08:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: So how would an exceptional F16 pilot do against a not so good F18 or F22 pilot? A Viper driver who is smart and does not get slow will kill the hornet. If you get impatient and get below over the top airspeed, you're gonna die. Never fought a Raptor, but i suspect even I would be toast |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:09:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I thought the F-16 was the Falcon. They call it the Viper also? Like the A-10, or most other fighters, it has an official moiker, and an unofficial one. A-10 is the Thunderbolt II, but is called a Warthog, Hog, etc. F-16 is the Fighting Falcon, but is called a Viper. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:10:38 PM EDT
[#22]
"We're single seat, multi-role. We can fly right up our own asshole."  
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:11:51 PM EDT
[#23]
If I could have any one I wanted, it would be an F16.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:15:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: So how would an exceptional F16 pilot do against a not so good F18 or F22 pilot? A Viper driver who is smart and does not get slow will kill the hornet. If you get impatient and get below over the top airspeed, you're gonna die. Never fought a Raptor, but i suspect even I would be toast good thing you dont have to find out hm? |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:18:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So how would an exceptional F16 pilot do against a not so good F18 or F22 pilot? probably beat the bug but be dead meat for the 22. The F22 is so far beyond anything fielded by anyone else today that its almost cheating. The F 15 is probably the most successful fighters of all time, with a kill ratio of 100+to 0.
When the Raptors first started flying against them ,it wasn't "the Eagles put up a good fight,but we won in the end" The Raptor pilots said "It was like clubbing baby seals"
Yeah I remember that quite well. We had a pilot that said "its not even a fight unless the F22 decides to come down and wait for us" |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:19:10 PM EDT
[#26]
I flew the Hog 3 years and Viper 11 years T/AT-38 A/C for the last 5 before retirement. My old man flew the F-105, F-4, T-33, AT-38A, F-15 and F-16. Both of our favorites is the Viper....a freakin blast to fly. The Hog was devastating during the Storm however!
My boy is playing linebacker for the AF Academy and will be a junior (cadet 2nd class) and should be a 3rd gen fighter pilot!  |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:23:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Show off
Im 3rd generation too, but we mix it up in our family. Grandpa flew B17s, Dad flew F4s and F18s, and I'm an Army rotary wing dude. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:24:56 PM EDT
[#28]
How about F22 piloted by a noob vs an F16 (two seater model) piloted by Chuck Yeager and backseat Manfred von Richtofen?
I always thought the F16 was badass. I fucking hate being a 4 eyes. I dreamed of being a pilot as a kid. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:27:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Wow, that is some serious diversity.Show off Im 3rd generation too, but we mix it up in our family. Grandpa flew B17s, Dad flew F4s and F18s, and I'm a rotary wing dude. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:34:16 PM EDT
[#30]
BVR engagement.....Raptor hands down. BFM engagement....it would be close but i give it to Chuck and the Red Barron
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:40:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Every time i see them fly by they are hauling ass. I see F18's and F15's just cruising along.
Not the F16, they take off fast and fly fast. Really loud in and air show too. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:40:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
BVR engagement.....Raptor hands down. BFM engagement....it would be close but i give it to Chuck and the Red Barron What is BVR? BFM? From my posts you may have inferred I have very little knowledge of aviation.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:44:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
BVR engagement.....Raptor hands down. BFM engagement....it would be close but i give it to Chuck and the Red Barron What is BVR? BFM? From my posts you may have inferred I have very little knowledge of aviation. BVR= beyond visual range. Missile, radar, technology fight BFM= basic fighter manuvers...ie dogfight |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:46:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
F-22 Super Bug F-15 F-16 That would be my take on things as well |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:48:34 PM EDT
[#35]
The F-16 is certainly the best light fighter of its era, which is fourth generation. Emphasis on LIGHT fighter, as in, one engine.
It was developed in the early 70s and went into service in the late 70s, 78 I think. (I could Google it but you can do that if you want.) It was originally designed as the purest expression of a fighter. It started as a VFR rules day fighter with armament and systems purely dedicated to the single mission of knocking enemy MiGs out of the sky. As elementally simple as a straight razor. Its capabilities have grown over time and today's latest versions (F-16E, F, and I) which aren't even operated by the USAF, are very much up to date in almost every respect, and it's highly effective on today's battlefield. Not bad for a design that first was drawn up on paper close forty years ago. A great design has longevity. The only F-16 ever to be shot down in aerial combat by another fighter was shot down by another F-16. No other fighter, worldwide, in any engagement, has ever shot down an F-16. (Greece vs Turkey) Aside from that, the F-16 enjoys a perfect air-to-air kill record, and the F-15 also has a perfect air-to-air kill record, too. You'd have to be some kind of dumb if you didn't have a lot of respect for the F-16. They may not be loved by all those who work on them, as they're reportedly a bit challenging to service in some respects, but their combat record and long useful service life speak for themselves. If I had unlimited funds and could afford any expensive toy in the world, I would choose an F-16 as my toy of choice, and spend a lot to be correctly trained to operate it and spend more to ensure it's properly maintained and serviced. But short of a major Powerball win, I don't expect that to happen. CJ |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 6:51:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
BVR engagement.....Raptor hands down. BFM engagement....it would be close but i give it to Chuck and the Red Barron What is BVR? BFM? From my posts you may have inferred I have very little knowledge of aviation. BVR= beyond visual range. Missile, radar, technology fight BFM= basic fighter manuvers...ie dogfight Thanks. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:00:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought the F-16 was the Falcon. They call it the Viper also? Like the A-10, or most other fighters, it has an official moiker, and an unofficial one. A-10 is the Thunderbolt II, but is called a Warthog, Hog, etc. F-16 is the Fighting Falcon, but is called a Viper. I think the pilots also call the F-16 the Electric Jet, because it was the first fighter to have fly-by-wire technology. I've also heard it called the Lawn Dart. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:03:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
The F-16 is certainly the best light fighter of its era, which is fourth generation. Emphasis on LIGHT fighter, as in, one engine. It was developed in the early 70s and went into service in the late 70s, 78 I think. (I could Google it but you can do that if you want.) It was originally designed as the purest expression of a fighter. It started as a VFR rules day fighter with armament and systems purely dedicated to the single mission of knocking enemy MiGs out of the sky. As elementally simple as a straight razor. Its capabilities have grown over time and today's latest versions (F-16E, F, and I) which aren't even operated by the USAF, are very much up to date in almost every respect, and it's highly effective on today's battlefield. Not bad for a design that first was drawn up on paper close forty years ago. A great design has longevity. The only F-16 ever to be shot down in aerial combat by another fighter was shot down by another F-16. No other fighter, worldwide, in any engagement, has ever shot down an F-16. (Greece vs Turkey) Aside from that, the F-16 enjoys a perfect air-to-air kill record, and the F-15 also has a perfect air-to-air kill record, too. You'd have to be some kind of dumb if you didn't have a lot of respect for the F-16. They may not be loved by all those who work on them, as they're reportedly a bit challenging to service in some respects, but their combat record and long useful service life speak for themselves. If I had unlimited funds and could afford any expensive toy in the world, I would choose an F-16 as my toy of choice, and spend a lot to be correctly trained to operate it and spend more to ensure it's properly maintained and serviced. But short of a major Powerball win, I don't expect that to happen. CJ I hate to say it guys but you are comparing apples to oranges. Talking air to air kill rates with f-16's from differnent generations is like saying a p-51 can shoot down a Cessna. I know there are no real stats beyond this but all of the Air Force aircraft listed are either distinctly different roles or major technology jumps. Bugs I know nothing about. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:04:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Funny you should bring this up. I'll be in the deserts the Lahontan valley where the F16 and F18 get to play.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:08:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Funny you should bring this up. I'll be in the deserts the Lahontan valley where the F16 and F18 get to play. Stay safe. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:09:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
According to comments by valheru21 and bullf-16 a comparison between the superbug and the viper goes like this A viper never wants to go slow against a bug. A bug never wants to try more than two turns with a viper. Beyond that I don't think too many other people can really say based on experience. I would just like to point out that Builf-16's opinion might not be entirely without bias.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:11:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: IIRC the early models had problems with the fly by wire and nose dived into the ground killing a few pilots.Quoted: Quoted: I thought the F-16 was the Falcon. They call it the Viper also? Like the A-10, or most other fighters, it has an official moiker, and an unofficial one. A-10 is the Thunderbolt II, but is called a Warthog, Hog, etc. F-16 is the Fighting Falcon, but is called a Viper. I think the pilots also call the F-16 the Electric Jet, because it was the first fighter to have fly-by-wire technology. I've also heard it called the Lawn Dart. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:11:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
If I could have any one I wanted, it would be an F16. ME too!! |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:12:00 PM EDT
[#44]
At least the f-15 feels like a real aircraft and not a video game.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:12:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Well, the F-16 plays its role in a complete system of tactics and strategies. That system as a whole has been highly effective, in part
at eliminating most capable aerial threats even before the F-16s were in range. It's hard for an enemy to use his Mig-29s when they've all had the shit blown out of them by cruise missiles a few hours ago! Our doctrine of advance strikes with cruise missiles and other standoff weapons no doubt contributes to the general lack of fighter opposition anywhere we've fought in the last few decades. So much so that the F-16 has found far more utility as a versatile strike aircraft than as a true fighter. I'm not the one to say this with any certainty as the USAF never trained me in a real F-16, but I believe that the majority of fighter pilot training in F-16s is focused on roles other than dogfighting. Certainly they have that training, too, but putting bombs on target, on time, is a skill that they get a lot more use out of in a real combat environment. Perhaps the single most impressive thing about the F-16 is that it has grown into so many other roles other than a dogfighter, and it does them all well. And with technology improvements and upgraded engines, today's F-16 is about twice as heavy as the first versions, yet has retained its performance levels if not actually increased them. Weight increases have been accompanied by power increases to match. CJ |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:15:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Flew in one that said on the front gear door, "First f-16 to exceed 10,000 hours." Didn't know if I should be impressed or afraid.
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:18:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: Funny you should bring this up. I'll be in the deserts the Lahontan valley where the F16 and F18 get to play. Stay safe. Fallon is an ok town. I'll be visiting family, and watching the birds fly. I wish I was getting to go up. We are getting fam trips again soon maybe I could.... |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:22:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Funny you should bring this up. I'll be in the deserts the Lahontan valley where the F16 and F18 get to play. Stay safe. Fallon is an ok town. I'll be visiting family, and watching the birds fly. I wish I was getting to go up. We are getting fam trips again soon maybe I could.... My first was awesome. Went up with a former wild weasel. He is a man I respect and fear. After the first it was downhill quick. |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:25:19 PM EDT
[#49]
My grandfather worked for GD and was part of the development of the F-16. I was with him at GD when the first "official" flight of the F-16 took place. It went down the runway a surprisingly short distance, then went effing vertical. It blew all of us away.
Grandpa was forced to retire in about '75, I think. He started there. at Air Force Bomber Plant #4 in 1941 after WWII started and he was declared 4-F. He ended his career as head of the tooling division. Like he said- he made the tools so others could make the aircraft. I will always love the F-16, just like I will always love the BUFF. I can't count the times I would drive over the Lake Worth bridge just as they flushed the bombers for an alert, or practice. The sound- and feel, of B-52s taking off at 1.5 minute intervals IIRC, was just awe inspiring. Jim |
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Posted: 6/15/2011 7:26:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
The F-16 is certainly the best light fighter of its era, which is fourth generation. Emphasis on LIGHT fighter, as in, one engine. It was developed in the early 70s and went into service in the late 70s, 78 I think. (I could Google it but you can do that if you want.) It was originally designed as the purest expression of a fighter. Multi-role fighjter It started as a VFR rules day fighter with armament and systems purely dedicated to the single mission of knocking enemy MiGs out of the sky. It started as a ground attack fighter with a visual defense capability. As elementally simple as a straight razor. It is complicated as shit and was the first fighter that is not aerodynamically stable and needs fly by wire to keep it in the air, also giving it a tremendous turn capability. Its capabilities have grown over time and today's latest versions (F-16E, F, and I) which aren't even operated by the USAF, are very much up to date in almost every respect, and it's highly effective on today's battlefield. Not bad for a design that first was drawn up on paper close forty years ago. The only part of the design that is still original is the basic looks. It has evolved tremendously, avionics, weapons, canopy, intakes and engines A great design has longevity. when you keep improving it with new technology The only F-16 ever to be shot down in aerial combat by another fighter was shot down by another F-16. No other fighter, worldwide, in any engagement, has ever shot down an F-16. (Greece vs Turkey) Aside from that, the F-16 enjoys a perfect air-to-air kill record, and the F-15 also has a perfect air-to-air kill record, too. You'd have to be some kind of dumb if you didn't have a lot of respect for the F-16. They may not be loved by all those who work on them, as they're reportedly a bit challenging to service in some respects, but their combat record and long useful service life speak for themselves. If I had unlimited funds and could afford any expensive toy in the world, I would choose an F-16 as my toy of choice, and spend a lot to be correctly trained to operate it and spend more to ensure it's properly maintained and serviced. But short of a major Powerball win, I don't expect that to happen. CJ |
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