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Posted: 6/23/2011 9:32:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By ffcol:
The one thing that has bothered me for a while is the reports that most of the guns were bought by a few straw purchasers. A straw purchaser theoretically knows they are breaking the law when filling out the forms. Would someone who is knowingly breaking the law draw even more attention to themselves by purchasing large quantities of "assault rifles"? I could see someone being a straw buyer for one or two weapons, but not a trunkload of AK's and .50's. That seems awfully risky and attention drawing. The only way I see this happening would be if the straw buyer had assurances that they would not be arrested for whatever reason, maybe that they were led to believe they were part of the investigation and needed to cooperate with BATF. "We know you have transported a few weapons to Mexico in the past, so now you will transport hundreds as part of our investigation in exchange for immunity". Is my tinfoil too tight? This angle has been alluded to earlier. BATFE has a bunch of 'straw buyers' who participated in F&F sitting safely behind bars. I'm just guessing that the buyers legal counsel are watching this very, very closely. The 'inside' information those buyers have may play a big part in criminal investigations and maybe even trials down the road. We'll see. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 9:39:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By torstin:
Originally Posted By burbanite:
Actually I believe that none of them understand it in the way that anyone who has been following this thread from the beginning does. They are playing catch up as much as their audience and do not realize how deep this goes or how serious it really is. It would take hours and hours just to wade through and digest the information presented here. This has also been a discussion, an exchange of ideas and theories that have been pared down and examined with all the resources and knowledge this place possesses. It is an information dump with the added benefit of review and rejection. I don't think that anyone, including Issa or Grassley is waiting for the elections to draw closer, I just think that they don't know what they have. I wonder if there is enough here to put together an operation gunrunner media kit of sorts. Definitions, key facts, links, slick graphics, etc. I've been following it from the earliest stages and it is definitely not the easiest thing to digest. Part of the reason for the lack of coverage, I think, is the complexity and also the simple disbelief that such a thing could actually occur in the US. So people tend to dismiss it as a screw up. Remove one or the other and coverage might take off. It could definitely be done because of the amount and the quality of the information we have here. It would require a very large commitment of time by someone who has the tools to do a real media kit that is presentable and easy to understand and disseminate. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2011 10:00:50 AM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By burbanite:
Originally Posted By torstin:
Originally Posted By burbanite:
Actually I believe that none of them understand it in the way that anyone who has been following this thread from the beginning does. They are playing catch up as much as their audience and do not realize how deep this goes or how serious it really is. It would take hours and hours just to wade through and digest the information presented here. This has also been a discussion, an exchange of ideas and theories that have been pared down and examined with all the resources and knowledge this place possesses. It is an information dump with the added benefit of review and rejection. I don't think that anyone, including Issa or Grassley is waiting for the elections to draw closer, I just think that they don't know what they have. I wonder if there is enough here to put together an operation gunrunner media kit of sorts. Definitions, key facts, links, slick graphics, etc. I've been following it from the earliest stages and it is definitely not the easiest thing to digest. Part of the reason for the lack of coverage, I think, is the complexity and also the simple disbelief that such a thing could actually occur in the US. So people tend to dismiss it as a screw up. Remove one or the other and coverage might take off. It could definitely be done because of the amount and the quality of the information we have here. It would require a very large commitment of time by someone who has the tools to do a real media kit that is presentable and easy to understand and disseminate. Here is a timeline with embedded footnotes to sources. I think it is pretty good... Gunwalker timeline... |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2011 10:02:38 AM EDT
[#4]
And another one...
http://www.handgunclub.com/hca/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Project-Gunrunner-timelines.pdf Steve |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 10:21:34 AM EDT
[#5]
On a side note, the calls for a Special Counsel Prosecutor are growing. The msm is smelling blood ( or $$) and wants in on the feeding frenzy before there's nothing left but hair & bones.
... apparently DOJ is continuing to stonewall Issa & Grassley's requests for documents. The thinking is that it will take the Special Counsel prosecutor to force cooperation from the Executive Branch, thus paving the way for criminal indictments and prosecution if warranted. Looks like an EF5 is forming up over the DOJ. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 10:59:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By yavorssj:
And another one... http://www.handgunclub.com/hca/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Project-Gunrunner-timelines.pdf Steve That timeline is great! It starts off a bit confusing, but once into the timeline it is very easy to follow! |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 11:33:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: shooter_tx]
[#7]
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Posted: 6/23/2011 11:43:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By Kevyn: Looks like an EF5 is forming up over the DOJ. Help me with this one, please? |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 11:48:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By wmounts:
Originally Posted By Kevyn:
Looks like an EF5 is forming up over the DOJ. Help me with this one, please? EF5 is the largest tornado classification. In other words, there is a large tornado forming over the DOJ with stuff flying everywhere. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 11:49:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: limaxray]
[#10]
Originally Posted By wmounts:
Originally Posted By Kevyn:
Looks like an EF5 is forming up over the DOJ. Help me with this one, please? Enhanced Fujita scale. Measures the destructive power of tornadoes. ETA: Beat by 13 seconds! |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 11:54:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By ffcol:
The one thing that has bothered me for a while is the reports that most of the guns were bought by a few straw purchasers. A straw purchaser theoretically knows they are breaking the law when filling out the forms. Would someone who is knowingly breaking the law draw even more attention to themselves by purchasing large quantities of "assault rifles"? I could see someone being a straw buyer for one or two weapons, but not a trunkload of AK's and .50's. That seems awfully risky and attention drawing. The only way I see this happening would be if the straw buyer had assurances that they would not be arrested for whatever reason, maybe that they were led to believe they were part of the investigation and needed to cooperate with BATF. "We know you have transported a few weapons to Mexico in the past, so now you will transport hundreds as part of our investigation in exchange for immunity". Is my tinfoil too tight? ATF use confidential informants snitches as straw buyers? Naw, it'll never happen. 
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Posted: 6/23/2011 11:54:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By Jfor: Ah, got it... thanks.Originally Posted By wmounts: Originally Posted By Kevyn: Looks like an EF5 is forming up over the DOJ. Help me with this one, please? EF5 is the largest tornado classification. In other words, there is a large tornado forming over the DOJ with stuff flying everywhere.  |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 12:10:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Andrapos]
[#13]
DOJ trying to work cover-up thru media
http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/23/issa-camp-says-washington-post-wrong-on-gunrunner-story/ <snip> The anonymous sources claimed that Issa attended a classified April 2010 briefing for members of Congress and their staffers about the programs that have allowed American guns into Mexican drug cartels’ hands. Issa spokesman Frederick Hill told The Daily Caller the Post is the first newspaper to run these DOJ claims, but not the first one the Justice Department went to with them. "We have had people who have contacted us before the Washington Post,” Hill said. "They told us people in the Justice Department were trying to push this story and I think a number of publications didn’t think it was credible or, for whatever reason, decided not to run it.” Hill said there was a briefing that Issa attended back in April 2010 on a similar subject. "There were questions at the time about the number of U.S. weapons that were ending up at Mexican crime scenes,” he said. "Basically, [it was about] the efforts of the ATF to stop cartels from doing this.” Did Project Gunrunner or Operation Fast and Furious come up at that briefing at all? Hill says "they certainly did not Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/23/issa-camp-says-washington-post-wrong-on-gunrunner-story/#ixzz1Q7GxVnRl <snip> |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 12:17:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By Andrapos:
DOJ trying to work cover-up thru media http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/23/issa-camp-says-washington-post-wrong-on-gunrunner-story/ <snip>
The anonymous sources claimed that Issa attended a classified April2010 briefing for members of Congress and their staffers about theprograms that have allowed American guns into Mexican drug cartels’hands.
Issa spokesman Frederick Hill told The Daily Caller the Post is thefirst newspaper to run these DOJ claims, but not the first one theJustice Department went to with them.
"We have had people who have contacted us before the WashingtonPost,” Hill said. "They told us people in the Justice Department weretrying to push this story and I think a number of publications didn’tthink it was credible or, for whatever reason, decided not to run it.”
Hill said there was a briefing that Issa attended back in April 2010on a similar subject. "There were questions at the time about thenumber of U.S. weapons that were ending up at Mexican crime scenes,” hesaid. "Basically, [it was about] the efforts of the ATF to stop cartelsfrom doing this.”
Did Project Gunrunner or Operation Fast and Furious come up at that briefing at all? Hill says "they certainly did not
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/23/issa-camp-says-washington-post-wrong-on-gunrunner-story/#ixzz1Q7GxVnRl <snip> the implications of this are hysterical. so, DOJ/ATF is saying they briefed Oversight last year... but, Holder and others didn't know anything about it until Grassley asked them THIS year? too funny. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 12:18:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Nolo, maybe this rabbit hole goes as deep as China?
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MI, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2011 12:51:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By burbanite:
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
They have to allow their audience to play catch up. See, when you ignore a story this long you can't dump it on the viewership en-mass because they will wonder why the fuck they haven't covered it already.. Personally, I think that Fox, Rush, Drudge etc. are holding their cards until the election rolls around. I don't think it's going to matter. Actually I believe that none of them understand it in the way that anyone who has been following this thread from the beginning does. They are playing catch up as much as their audience and do not realize how deep this goes or how serious it really is. It would take hours and hours just to wade through and digest the information presented here. This has also been a discussion, an exchange of ideas and theories that have been pared down and examined with all the resources and knowledge this place possesses. It is an information dump with the added benefit of review and rejection. I don't think that anyone, including Issa or Grassley is waiting for the elections to draw closer, I just think that they don't know what they have. I don't buy it. They pay people a lot of money to flesh out stories before the other guy's network. These people are very good at sluthing out details, and certainly after watching the testimony last week their legwork has been done for them to the point they could run a jiucy, salacious story if they could be bothered to. The coverage of this story is being coordinated by the Republican party, and I think they are bungling it. My bet is that they don't believe the American Public has an attention span long enough to affect the election so they are holding off. The question is, will the case have moved beyond them to a point it would be difficult to relay by the time that comes? |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 12:58:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By burbanite:
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
They have to allow their audience to play catch up. See, when you ignore a story this long you can't dump it on the viewership en-mass because they will wonder why the fuck they haven't covered it already.. Personally, I think that Fox, Rush, Drudge etc. are holding their cards until the election rolls around. I don't think it's going to matter. Actually I believe that none of them understand it in the way that anyone who has been following this thread from the beginning does. They are playing catch up as much as their audience and do not realize how deep this goes or how serious it really is. It would take hours and hours just to wade through and digest the information presented here. This has also been a discussion, an exchange of ideas and theories that have been pared down and examined with all the resources and knowledge this place possesses. It is an information dump with the added benefit of review and rejection. I don't think that anyone, including Issa or Grassley is waiting for the elections to draw closer, I just think that they don't know what they have. I don't buy it. They pay people a lot of money to flesh out stories before the other guy's network. These people are very good at sluthing out details, and certainly after watching the testimony last week their legwork has been done for them to the point they could run a jiucy, salacious story if they could be bothered to. The coverage of this story is being coordinated by the Republican party, and I think they are bungling it. My bet is that they don't believe the American Public has an attention span long enough to affect the election so they are holding off. The question is, will the case have moved beyond them to a point it would be difficult to relay by the time that comes? How does the Republican Party control the MSM all of a sudden? I still think that they ( the media) don't have any kind of grasp on the depth of this issue and that they are treating it just like any other "suddenly topical" news item. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:06:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Until the MSM realizes that this administration could use their tactics on them (MSM), this will not be Page 1, above the fold stuff. The WaPo story got me thinking. The administration just handed an obvious bucket of lies to a major editorial outlet and they swallowed them, hook line and sinker. Now, just how long will it take for the rest of the MSM to begin the ridicule in an attempt to draw away WaPo's viewers? It's all about the money and control.
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:23:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Andrapos]
[#19]
Originally Posted By Mosspointers: Until the MSM realizes that this administration could use their tactics on them (MSM), this will not be Page 1, above the fold stuff. The WaPo story got me thinking. The administration just handed an obvious bucket of lies to a major editorial outlet and they swallowed them, hook line and sinker. Now, just how long will it take for the rest of the MSM to begin the ridicule in an attempt to draw away WaPo's viewers? It's all about the money and control. Almost makes you wonder how many times they have done this in the past, doesn't it? |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:35:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By Andrapos:
DOJ trying to work cover-up thru media http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/23/issa-camp-says-washington-post-wrong-on-gunrunner-story/ <snip>
The anonymous sources claimed that Issa attended a classified April2010 briefing for members of Congress and their staffers about theprograms that have allowed American guns into Mexican drug cartels’hands.
Issa spokesman Frederick Hill told The Daily Caller the Post is thefirst newspaper to run these DOJ claims, but not the first one theJustice Department went to with them.
"We have had people who have contacted us before the WashingtonPost,” Hill said. "They told us people in the Justice Department weretrying to push this story and I think a number of publications didn’tthink it was credible or, for whatever reason, decided not to run it.”
Hill said there was a briefing that Issa attended back in April 2010on a similar subject. "There were questions at the time about thenumber of U.S. weapons that were ending up at Mexican crime scenes,” hesaid. "Basically, [it was about] the efforts of the ATF to stop cartelsfrom doing this.”
Did Project Gunrunner or Operation Fast and Furious come up at that briefing at all? Hill says "they certainly did not
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/23/issa-camp-says-washington-post-wrong-on-gunrunner-story/#ixzz1Q7GxVnRl <snip> DOJ Department of (Wewilldowhateverthefuckwewanttoandfuckyou). 
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:45:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By Andrapos:
Originally Posted By Mosspointers:
Until the MSM realizes that this administration could use their tactics on them (MSM), this will not be Page 1, above the fold stuff. The WaPo story got me thinking. The administration just handed an obvious bucket of lies to a major editorial outlet and they swallowed them, hook line and sinker. Now, just how long will it take for the rest of the MSM to begin the ridicule in an attempt to draw away WaPo's viewers? It's all about the money and control. Almost makes you wonder how many times they have done this in the past, doesn't it? I thought the exact same thing. You could pretty much counter and discredit any actual sourced reporting if you can get a MSM outlet to write a story from an anonymous caller. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:51:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Todays story by Sharyl Attkisson
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:53:51 PM EDT
[#23]
CBS News has confirmed that ATF Fast and Furious "walked" guns have been linked to the terrorist torture and murder of the brother of a Mexican state attorney general last fall.
Yeah... this is now a state-department matter. Shit just got VERY real. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:02:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NoloContendere]
[#24]
Issa heads to Mexico:
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/issa-heading-to-mexico-as-more-f-f-guns-linked-to-bloodshed#ixzz1Q7OKBYuF A congressional investigation into a controversial federal gun-running surveillance operation is moving to Mexico this week amid new reports that two AK-47s sold in Arizona during the operation were found at the scene of a shootout with the suspected killers of a well-known Mexican attorney.—Los Angeles Times and.... Issa, and Senator Charles Grassley, have asked Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan for serial numbers of guns seized in “substantial” violent crimes, the newspaper noted Keep digging guys.... Hope he is safe in Mexico. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:05:17 PM EDT
[#25]
We're likely going to be seeing these guns turning up as they're used in crimes for the next 10-20 years.... Some how directing firearms directly to violent criminals seemed like a good way to compile statistics for Washington's own purposes.
Who would've thought this exactly what they were trying to accomplish? |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:07:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By Mister_H:
Originally Posted By Andrapos:
Originally Posted By Mosspointers:
Until the MSM realizes that this administration could use their tactics on them (MSM), this will not be Page 1, above the fold stuff. The WaPo story got me thinking. The administration just handed an obvious bucket of lies to a major editorial outlet and they swallowed them, hook line and sinker. Now, just how long will it take for the rest of the MSM to begin the ridicule in an attempt to draw away WaPo's viewers? It's all about the money and control. Almost makes you wonder how many times they have done this in the past, doesn't it? I thought the exact same thing. You could pretty much counter and discredit any actual sourced reporting if you can get a MSM outlet to write a story from an anonymous caller. I can't remember an OBVIOUS bucket of lies in my 54 years, but I'm sure a rose-smelling bucket of shit has been doled out every now and then. THIS bucket of shit cannot, in anyway, be brushed under the rug. Either the WaPo made the story up and farmed it out anonymously to be picked up by other media or the DOJ just perjured themselves. I'm guessing the DOJ just perjured themselves. I see a Special Prosecutor by the end of July. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:08:38 PM EDT
[#27]
So, any more news on why a foreign government agency has a FFL?
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:11:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Hope he is safe in Mexico. This is where I start to get paranoid... |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:11:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Issa heads to Mexico: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/issa-heading-to-mexico-as-more-f-f-guns-linked-to-bloodshed#ixzz1Q7OKBYuF A congressional investigation into a controversial federal gun-running surveillance operation is moving to Mexico this week amid new reports that two AK-47s sold in Arizona during the operation were found at the scene of a shootout with the suspected killers of a well-known Mexican attorney.—Los Angeles Times and.... Issa, and Senator Charles Grassley, have asked Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan for serial numbers of guns seized in “substantial” violent crimes, the newspaper noted Keep digging guys.... Hope he is safe in Mexico. If he can somehow convince the Mexicans that Obama is definately no friend of theirs, this could get real interesting, real fast, if the Mexican government provides Issa with info that the Communists in Charge want kept quiet. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:14:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By Spade:
So, any more news on why a foreign government agency has a FFL? no, but i spoke with someone again this morning, put my thoughts down with supporting documentation, and forwarded to the right people. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:16:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By Mosspointers: Originally Posted By NoloContendere: Issa heads to Mexico: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/issa-heading-to-mexico-as-more-f-f-guns-linked-to-bloodshed#ixzz1Q7OKBYuF A congressional investigation into a controversial federal gun-running surveillance operation is moving to Mexico this week amid new reports that two AK-47s sold in Arizona during the operation were found at the scene of a shootout with the suspected killers of a well-known Mexican attorney.—Los Angeles Times and.... Issa, and Senator Charles Grassley, have asked Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan for serial numbers of guns seized in "substantial” violent crimes, the newspaper noted Keep digging guys.... Hope he is safe in Mexico. If he can somehow convince the Mexicans that Obama is definately no friend of theirs, this could get real interesting, real fast, if the Mexican government provides Issa with info that the Communists in Charge want kept quiet. It's also possible that the possibility of such disclosures is what's kept Obama from acting on the border. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:21:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By valheru21: CBS News has confirmed that ATF Fast and Furious "walked" guns have been linked to the terrorist torture and murder of the brother of a Mexican state attorney general last fall. Yeah... this is now a state-department matter. Shit just got VERY real. The State Department knew of it long before. The BATFE didn't expect massive leaks. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:23:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By valheru21:
CBS News has confirmed that ATF Fast and Furious "walked" guns have been linked to the terrorist torture and murder of the brother of a Mexican state attorney general last fall.
Yeah... this is now a state-department matter. Shit just got VERY real. The State Department knew of it long before. The BATFE didn't expect massive leaks. I meant that the state department is not going to get to sit idly by and let the ATF take all the heat. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:29:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By valheru21:
CBS News has confirmed that ATF Fast and Furious "walked" guns have been linked to the terrorist torture and murder of the brother of a Mexican state attorney general last fall.
Yeah... this is now a state-department matter. Shit just got VERY real. The State Department knew of it long before. The BATFE didn't expect massive leaks. Well, ITAR is a state dept thing, They had to have known about the guns going to mexico. I would be *really* interested in seeing any kind of ITAR waiver, if it can even be waived, from State. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:33:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Originally Posted By Fatbert:
Originally Posted By Mosspointers:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Issa heads to Mexico: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/issa-heading-to-mexico-as-more-f-f-guns-linked-to-bloodshed#ixzz1Q7OKBYuF A congressional investigation into a controversial federal gun-running surveillance operation is moving to Mexico this week amid new reports that two AK-47s sold in Arizona during the operation were found at the scene of a shootout with the suspected killers of a well-known Mexican attorney.—Los Angeles Times and.... Issa, and Senator Charles Grassley, have asked Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan for serial numbers of guns seized in "substantial” violent crimes, the newspaper noted Keep digging guys.... Hope he is safe in Mexico. If he can somehow convince the Mexicans that Obama is definately no friend of theirs, this could get real interesting, real fast, if the Mexican government provides Issa with info that the Communists in Charge want kept quiet. It's also possible that the possibility of such disclosures is what's kept Obama from acting on the border. no, the need for votes in 2012 is what's kept obama from doing anything on the border. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:35:44 PM EDT
[#36]
couldn't have happened to a more deserving crowd...
I hope this goes all the way to the oval orifice.... |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:41:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By NoloContendere: Originally Posted By Keith_J: Originally Posted By valheru21: CBS News has confirmed that ATF Fast and Furious "walked" guns have been linked to the terrorist torture and murder of the brother of a Mexican state attorney general last fall. Yeah... this is now a state-department matter. Shit just got VERY real. The State Department knew of it long before. The BATFE didn't expect massive leaks. Well, ITAR is a state dept thing, They had to have known about the guns going to mexico. I would be *really* interested in seeing any kind of ITAR waiver, if it can even be waived, from State. Think of the rift between Clinton and Obama. Only Clinton isn't going to go down in the sinking ship. IF she has any documentation, she will keep it close until she needs the "get out of jail free" card. Right now, there isn't much liability in the State Department. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:44:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By pneutin:
Looks like they are getting desperate and will do anything to stop the investigation http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/critic-of-atf-gun-trafficking-program-raised-no-objection-when-briefed-last-year/2011/06/21/AGzvZ5eH_story.html Edit: Article Summary: Issa was briefed on Fast and Furious back in 2010, but likely a very basic "we're working on catching straw buyers" explanation. Treated today by St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner Kurt Hofman: Latest attack on Issa reeks of desperation to deflect 'Gunwalker' culpability |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:47:15 PM EDT
[#39]
The Liberal Media is so screwed up. We'll see 24/7 coverage of the Anthony trial but not so with murder of Border Patrol Agents and government cover-ups. When we do see it in the liberal media they try to lay off the fact that this thing goes well in to the DOJ and US Attorney's Office. I'm on vacation this week and trying to avoid news. I did catch a blurb as I channel surfed at night. I believe it was Anderson Cooper who had a talking head on. I don't even recall what Cooper said but I wanted to jump through the TV screen and choke the shit out of him. I have friends who are rank and file in the Border Patrol and in the ATF. They are not involved in this investigation. I'd hate to see something happen to any of them because a bureaucrat or an appointee screwed the pooch. The people in this admin, who took over and are running things have no honor and no clue how to get things dine on the ground. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 3:37:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Did I read earlier in this thread that the ATF forced the gun dealers to accept the straw purchases? Can someone elaborate on this aspect?
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Posted: 6/23/2011 3:42:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By NoloContendere: Issa heads to Mexico: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/issa-heading-to-mexico-as-more-f-f-guns-linked-to-bloodshed#ixzz1Q7OKBYuF A congressional investigation into a controversial federal gun-running surveillance operation is moving to Mexico this week amid new reports that two AK-47s sold in Arizona during the operation were found at the scene of a shootout with the suspected killers of a well-known Mexican attorney.—Los Angeles Times and.... Issa, and Senator Charles Grassley, have asked Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan for serial numbers of guns seized in "substantial” violent crimes, the newspaper noted Keep digging guys.... Hope he is safe in Mexico. Who provides security for Issa and Grassley and their crew down there? Our guys? Mexican .mil? There are some Barrett .50's down there, and a bunch of bad guys that are probably not in favor of US.gov politicians getting nosy....... The Cartels seem to 'have a way' of making good people do 'bad things' to save their families, etc. ................... Stay Safe, all. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 3:43:35 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 6/23/2011 3:43:51 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm glad she's at least calling them 'variants': Two AK-47 variant rifles were found at the scene...
But then she goes and does this: Two AK-47 variant assault rifles...
I'm not aware of any of the F&F guns being NFA items... in that it takes "a whole 'nother level" of straw purchaser to procure those. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 3:48:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By iScream:
The most liberal guy I know just posted a link to the Daily Show coverage on my Facebook wall. Maybe others saw the show too and will actually go read some of the articles I've been linking. Probably not though. Now post this one: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/jon_stewart_atf_director_was_tivoing_fast_and_furi.php Be sure and tag them in it. Pretty "fair and balanced"... considering the source. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 4:05:53 PM EDT
[#45]
ATF agent Vincent Cefalu posted this on the 19th, today he was fired.
Posted 19 June 2011 - 01:29 PM
I carry this in my wallet, and will do so until Justice is served. Why? Because today, I received well wishes from my kids, my friends and my Family for Fathers day. It made me smile. Brian Terry will never hear those words, Happy Fathers day. As a Marine and therefore a Brother of Brian Terry, I ask that we all raise the bar and focus on the words of his prayer. Many of us will never reach that bar, but we should all try. God Bless the Terry Family. If you seek to do battle with me this day, you will receive the best that I am capable of giving. It may not be enough, but it will be everything that I have to give and it will be impressive for I have constantly prepared myself for this day. I have trained, drilled and rehearsed my actions so that I might have the best chance of defeating you. I have kept myself in peak physical condition, schooled myself in the martial skills and have become proficient in the applications of combat tactics. You may defeat me, but I’m willing to die if necessary. I do not fear death for I have been close enough to it on enough occasions that it no longer concerns me. But, I do fear the loss of my honor and would rather die fighting than to have it said that I was without courage. So I will fight you, no matter how insurmountable it may seem, to the death if need be, in order that it may never be said of me that I was not a warrior. Semper Fi, Brian. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 4:08:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By ryann:
Did I read earlier in this thread that the ATF forced the gun dealers to accept the straw purchases? Can someone elaborate on this aspect? "Forced" is probably not the correct word, coerced might be better. When a regulatory agency that can crawl up your ass with a microscope and can have a SWAT team break down your door for a mere paperwork error, asks you to "assist" them, you usually do. It appears the initially that it was an informal relationship with most of the FFLs involved, they probably got the 'help your country" speech or a variant. As it went on, at least one FFL became more and more troubled about the operation and said they wanted to stop making the sales. The ATF set up a meeting to discuss their role in the matter and ATF asked that the FFL not bring an attorney.... It is at this meeting that the FFL is alledged to have been brought on officially as a paid confidential informant. This was likely done to make the FFL feel they were under the umbrella of legal protection that the ATF likely told them they could provide as an arm of the federal government. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 4:19:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By ryann: Did I read earlier in this thread that the ATF forced the gun dealers to accept the straw purchases? Can someone elaborate on this aspect? "Forced" is probably not the correct word, coerced might be better. When a regulatory agency that can crawl up your ass with a microscope and can have a SWAT team break down your door for a mere paperwork error, asks you to "assist" them, you usually do. It appears the initially that it was an informal relationship with most of the FFLs involved, they probably got the 'help your country" speech or a variant. As it went on, at least one FFL became more and more troubled about the operation and said they wanted to stop making the sales. The ATF set up a meeting to discuss their role in the matter and ATF asked that the FFL not bring an attorney.... It is at this meeting that the FFL is alledged to have been brought on officially as a paid confidential informant. This was likely done to make the FFL feel they were under the umbrella of legal protection that the ATF likely told them they could provide as an arm of the federal government. So the ATF paid people to break the law by selling arms to Mexican cartels? Wow. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 4:29:52 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 6/23/2011 4:32:18 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 6/23/2011 4:34:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By burbanite:
ATF retaliation underway? Nolo, can you get this to the appropriate people? Originally Posted By burbanite:
ATF agent Vincent Cefalu posted this on the 19th, today he was fired. Posted 19 June 2011 - 01:29 PM
I carry this in my wallet, and will do so until Justice is served. Why? Because today, I received well wishes from my kids, my friends and my Family for Fathers day. It made me smile. Brian Terry will never hear those words, Happy Fathers day. As a Marine and therefore a Brother of Brian Terry, I ask that we all raise the bar and focus on the words of his prayer. Many of us will never reach that bar, but we should all try. God Bless the Terry Family. If you seek to do battle with me this day, you will receive the best that I am capable of giving. It may not be enough, but it will be everything that I have to give and it will be impressive for I have constantly prepared myself for this day. I have trained, drilled and rehearsed my actions so that I might have the best chance of defeating you. I have kept myself in peak physical condition, schooled myself in the martial skills and have become proficient in the applications of combat tactics. You may defeat me, but I’m willing to die if necessary. I do not fear death for I have been close enough to it on enough occasions that it no longer concerns me. But, I do fear the loss of my honor and would rather die fighting than to have it said that I was without courage. So I will fight you, no matter how insurmountable it may seem, to the death if need be, in order that it may never be said of me that I was not a warrior. Semper Fi, Brian. David Codrea (2011:Jun.23). "Breaking: ATF heeds Issa's 'no retaliation' warning by...retaliating," Examiner.com |
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