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Posted: 7/14/2010 8:35:57 AM EDT
screw your rights


Supreme Court Gun Ruling: More Bark Than Bite?
By Adam Cohen

This is a big week for guns and the people who want to carry them. The question: Just how big?

The Supreme Court ruled on Monday, June 28, in a challenge to Chicago's gun-control law, that Americans in all 50 states have a constitutional right to possess firearms for self-defense. Gun-rights supporters are ecstatic about the decision. The floodgates are now open for lawsuits challenging state and local gun-control laws nationwide. But based on what the majority actually said, it seems likely that many of these challenges will fail.
(See photos of "Open Carry" gun-law advocates.)

Though gun-rights groups like the National Rifle Association (NRA) have wielded power on Capitol Hill for decades, the legal battle over the constitutional right to possess a firearm heated up only two years ago. In a challenge to a tough gun-control law in Washington, D.C., the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that the Second Amendment gives people an individual right to bear arms. To many judicial observers and gun-control advocates, that came as something of a shock, since for more than 200 years, the overwhelming view in the legal world had been that the Second Amendment only protected a state's right to maintain a "well-regulated militia."
(See the top 10 crime stories of 2009.)


This week, the court answered a technical question about its 2008 ruling, concerning whether the federal right it recognized (the District of Columbia is on federal land) also applied to the 50 states. By another 5-4 vote, the court said it does.

While the court's five-member conservative majority has been bold about declaring a Second Amendment right to have a gun, it has been less than clear about which gun-control laws violate that right. In fact, the court did not actually strike down Chicago's law, which is effectively a near ban on the possession of handguns by private citizens. It simply asked a lower court to take another look at it.
(See pictures of the history of the AK-47.)

In both the Chicago and D.C. cases, the Supreme Court focused narrowly on people's rights to use guns to protect themselves in their own homes. The court emphasized that it was not casting doubt on many kinds of gun regulations — including prohibitions on gun possession by felons and the mentally ill, laws keeping guns away from schools and government buildings and laws imposing restrictions like waiting periods on the sale of guns.

That still leaves a sizable gray area. As Justice Stephen Breyer noted in his dissent, the court has not given any real guidance on whether the right to be armed extends outside the house, whether it includes the right to use a semiautomatic weapon or what registration laws are permissible.

These are some of the issues lawyers will be fighting over. And despite all of the celebration by pro-gun forces, it is far from clear that they will win when the battle turns to specific gun-control measures. Perhaps that's why supporters of gun control were notably upbeat when the ruling came down. The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence declared that it "does not prevent elected representatives from enacting commonsense gun laws." Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago said his city has already begun crafting a law that will withstand constitutional challenge — by, for instance, focusing it on gun registration, background checks, requirements for gun owners to get training and perhaps requirements to carry insurance.
(See pictures of gun culture in America.)


The stakes in this battle are extremely high. Pro-gun advocates have done a good job of trumpeting the rights of people to carry firearms. But less attention is given these days to the right not to be put into danger by guns. More than 100,000 Americans are killed or injured by guns every year, according to the Brady Center. By some estimates, the Chicago gun-control law that is now in jeopardy has saved as many as 1,000 lives since it was enacted in the early 1980s.

Pro-gun groups try to create the impression that the vast majority of Americans support greater gun rights. But the will of the people has long favored some kind of gun control. A CBS–New York Times poll in April found that 40% of Americans thought gun-control laws should be more strict, while 42% thought they should be kept as they are. Just 16% said they should be less strict. All 50 states have gun regulations, and the Chicago and D.C. laws were enacted by democratically elected governments.

There is one more reason the impact of this week's ruling could be limited. The dissenting justices continued to question the thinking underlying the court's 2008 decision recognizing a constitutional right to carry guns. If one of the court's conservatives leaves and is replaced by a liberal, the Second Amendment could revert to what it was for more than two centuries: a right that belongs to states, not to individuals.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:37:26 AM EDT
[#1]
Time magazine still exists??
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:39:29 AM EDT
[#2]



Quoted:


Time magazine still exists??


unfortunately.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:39:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Douche...that guy is one.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:40:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Time magazine still exists??


It needs to go the way of Life magazine.

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:40:15 AM EDT
[#5]
And that is why the kagan confirmation vote is so important. And why the NRA should not endorse any senator who votes to confirm that fascist gun hater kagan, harry reid included.



Heller and McDonald are just 1 conservative retirement/accident/illness away from being undone. If they would confirm anyone else, even a moderate democrat like howard dean, future 2A cases could be 6-3 instead of 5-4 or worse 4-5 loss.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:40:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Time magazine still exists??


It's purpose now is to make the National Enquirer look credible.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:40:47 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Time magazine still exists??


This

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:41:08 AM EDT
[#8]
Who ever wrote that article needs to reread the BoR again. It says "The right of the PEOPLE," not the right of the states


fucking morons
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:41:09 AM EDT
[#9]
TIME is the new Newsweek.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:41:43 AM EDT
[#10]
If one of the court's conservatives leaves and is replaced by a liberal, the Second Amendment could revert to what it was for more than two centuries: a right that belongs to states, not to individuals.


Ominous, infuriating and true.

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:42:48 AM EDT
[#11]



Quoted:


Time magazine still exists??


Oil prices may have dropped but Russia can still afford to fund their old propaganda/destabilization programs.



 
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:43:04 AM EDT
[#12]
"The right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms..."

Is my version of the Constitution different than everyone elses?
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:44:42 AM EDT
[#13]



Quoted:


"The right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms..."



Is my version of the Constitution different than everyone elses?


Yes - the dems, liberals and greenies only have a pile of ash.  Sort of hard to work from.



 
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:45:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Time doesn't have the right to publish this without State approval.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:45:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Consider the author. The U.S. Constitution is meant to constrain the Federal Government. It is not the source
of our natural rights. This is what Jefferson had to say:

"No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The
strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep
and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves
against tyranny in government."
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:47:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Time magazine still exists??


No shit, that was my first thought.

They clearly can't hire people who can think.

Ah well, that's why we have The Economist.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:47:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Time subscriber base increased 100% last year...

Went from 1, to a grand total of two.  
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:48:32 AM EDT
[#18]
Last gasps of a dying magazine.

When did they become relevant again?
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:49:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
If one of the court's conservatives leaves and is replaced by a liberal, the Second Amendment could revert to what it was for more than two centuries: a right that belongs to states, not to individuals.


Ominous, infuriating and true.



Except for the 200 years part.

It's more like 50-60 or, more realistically, 20.  


The guy really overplays his hand.  I wonder if he could explain to me why, even with a "conservative majority" the Supreme Court isn't overturning liberal decisions like Roe v Wade, et al.  Might it be perhaps that it's not in the realm of authority of the Supreme Court to do that unless a serious error is found?

And if you ask me, both Heller and McDonald are very well-written decisions.  I'm also pretty sure that "because Sotomayor has a sandy vagina" is not legitimate legal grounds to overturn a decision.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:50:32 AM EDT
[#20]

 



another classic issue, remember seeing this in the checkout line.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:50:38 AM EDT
[#21]
bill of rights equals individual rights. end of story.



where do these idiots come up with this shit?
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:53:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
bill of rights equals individual rights. end of story.

where do these idiots come up with this shit?


Individual rights are contrary to The Plan.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:53:58 AM EDT
[#23]
fuck time magazine and the horse they rode in on.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:54:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Time magazine still exists??

unfortunately.


Apparently, they also think they have Veto power over supreme court rulings...
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:55:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Excuse me, I'm late for classes...

I'm enrolled in a Free Speech safety class that I have to take to become a journalist.

Then, I'll have to take a State exam and hope that I score a passing grade.

THEN, I'll have to get slander/liable insurance before I can be published...you never know who's feelings I might hurt with the mighty pen/printer.

I'll probably have to register my PC or my typewriter too, and get annual registration renewals.

Of course, there may be other specific municipal qualifications that I'll have to pass too...maybe even a local tax on my PC.



AND THEN I'm off to my Freedom of Religion class...That's on M-W-F's...

I had to schedule my Fourth Amendment class for T-Th's because of a scheduling conflict with my First Amendment class...so until I pass THAT exam I guess that I'll just have to be unsecure in my person, property, papers and effects...





Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:58:49 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If one of the court's conservatives leaves and is replaced by a liberal, the Second Amendment could revert to what it was for more than two centuries: a right that belongs to states, not to individuals.


Ominous, infuriating and true.



Except for the 200 years part.

It's more like 50-60 or, more realistically, 20.  


The guy really overplays his hand.  I wonder if he could explain to me why, even with a "conservative majority" the Supreme Court isn't overturning liberal decisions like Roe v Wade, et al.  Might it be perhaps that it's not in the realm of authority of the Supreme Court to do that unless a serious error is found?

And if you ask me, both Heller and McDonald are very well-written decisions.  I'm also pretty sure that "because Sotomayor has a sandy vagina" is not legitimate legal grounds to overturn a decision.

You don't think liberal district courts would be passing up cases if they knew they would get the results they were looking for?

I expect some gun cases in liberal courts to win now, but only to prevent them from getting to the SCOTUS. Which, up until Heller, was unclear as to what they would do with such a case.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:59:08 AM EDT
[#27]
The court system is based on precedence.  The high court has the power to reverse itself and has only done so a handful of times in the last 150+ years...
Is it possible?  Sure.  Is it likely?
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 8:59:58 AM EDT
[#28]
This idea (that the 2nd amendment allows the government to own a gun) is going to be really hard for these idiots to give up.

Also I'll bet dollars to donuts this fucktard doesn't know what semiautomatic means.  
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:00:54 AM EDT
[#29]
motherfucker
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:04:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:05:23 AM EDT
[#31]
Does anybody actually read Time anymore?  BTW, they are closely affiliated with CNN.  
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:05:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
The court system is based on precedence.  The high court has the power to reverse itself and has only done so a handful of times in the last 150+ years...
Is it possible?  Sure.  Is it likely?


A handfull?  Oh now - more like a bucket full.  I saw Scalia speak and was gonna hit him with the judicial activism question, stand and allow the sheaves of paper to unroll for comic effect.

Didn't - and I regret it.  However, that was a real - and very long list - it would have hit the floor.

Just look at Furman v GA/Gregg v GA

Tell me how long it took them to do/undo the issue at hand.

Typo on the case name - been a long time

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:06:14 AM EDT
[#33]




Quoted:

The court system is based on precedence. The high court has the power to reverse itself and has only done so a handful of times in the last 150+ years...

Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely?


Get 5 kagans and sotomayors up in there and ask yourself if it's more likely or less likely.

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:06:18 AM EDT
[#34]
I find it amusing that they credit the Chicago handgun ban with saving as many as 1,000 lives since it's inception in the early 1980s.  Holy unquantifiable facts, Batman!
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:07:05 AM EDT
[#35]
If they put their body through the same gymnastics they have to put their mind through to accept that "The People" in the first amendment means all citizens, but in the second amendment "The People" means the government, they wouldn't have an intact bone in their bodies.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:08:06 AM EDT
[#36]
Time magazine...LOL

I would sooner take advise from a comic book.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:09:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2007/1101070618_400.jpg  

another classic issue, remember seeing this in the checkout line.



To finish the statement on the cover you showed:

Why amnesty makes sense? So we can keep our libtard, socialist overlords in power for decades.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:09:16 AM EDT
[#38]



Quoted:



If one of the court's conservatives leaves and is replaced by a liberal, the Second Amendment could revert to what it was for more than two centuries: a right that belongs to states, not to individuals.




Ominous, infuriating and true.





Then they'd have to overturn Wickard.



If it's a state right, then the federal government needs to butt the fuck out and quit regulating it.



 
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:09:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I find it amusing that they credit the Chicago handgun ban with saving as many as 1,000 lives since it's inception in the early 1980s.  Holy unquantifiable facts, Batman!


I guess you're not familiar with how they come up with figures like that.  They probably saw somewhere that 1,000 illegal handguns have been confiscated since 1980.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:11:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Time magazine still exists??


I told my office manager to cancel all Time and NewsWeek products. My reception area no longer supports the enemy.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:12:57 AM EDT
[#41]
What is clear is that rational basis does not cut it anymore.   Neither does "interest balancing" , probably just another weasel word for rational basis.



to wit:





"If all that was required to overcome the right to keep and bear arms was a rational basis, the Second Amendment would be redundant with the separate constitutional prohibitions on irrational laws, and would have no effect."[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#cite_note-45][46][/url] Also, regarding Justice Breyer's proposal of a "judge-empowering 'interest-balancing inquiry,'" the Court states, "We know of no other enumerated constitutional right whose core protection has been subjected to a freestanding 'interest-balancing' approach."[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#cite_note-46][47][/url]


Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:16:16 AM EDT
[#42]
Time-dead
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:16:33 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Who ever wrote that article needs to reread the BoR again. It says "The right of the PEOPLE," not the right of the states


Don't bother liberals by throwing facts at them.

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:18:18 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:

Quoted:
The court system is based on precedence. The high court has the power to reverse itself and has only done so a handful of times in the last 150+ years...
Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely?

Get 5 kagans and sotomayors up in there and ask yourself if it's more likely or less likely.


If they do, the next time you have 5 conservatives and Row v Wade is done.  Liberals won't do that.

Our rights are safer than ever.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:22:00 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Does anybody actually read Time anymore?  BTW, they are closely affiliated with CNN.  


3,372,240 weekly average

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:22:31 AM EDT
[#46]
That's some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen.



The Second Amendment isn't anyone's right.  It's a limit on the power of government.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:23:31 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
This idea (that the 2nd amendment allows the government to own a gun) is going to be really hard for these idiots to give up.

Also I'll bet dollars to donuts this fucktard doesn't know what semiautomatic means.  


It's just so patently absurd... I can't fathom it.

The fact that states will have a militia is a given from the main body of the constitution.  The idea that it would need to be later specified as a right in a list of otherwise individual rights is laughable.  It's the left wing version of some of the nonsense people cling to here.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:29:00 AM EDT
[#48]
So sad that liberal education does not endear the fact that the founders conveyed that states and governments do not have any rights, never had, never will.  Rights are a unique thing where thay exist only in the realm of living people, all people, and they are granted these rights by their creator.  States and gov't, however, have powers.  These powers are GRANTED to them by consent of the governed.  Never do these entities have rights to do anything, theirs is soley based upon the will of the people.

This is the failure of our modern education system..
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:29:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Acch! You silly bitter gun and bible clingers!!! Don't you know ANYTHING about US history?? Read a fucking book hill billies!!

Ya see waaay back in 1789 there were two trains of thought about fighting wars, One side, "the tories", thought that Soldiers should be armed with Muskets, AKA guns. But there was another radical side  that thought it should be fought with sharp fruit, VERY sharp fruit. Pineapples, Kiwis, Cherries etc. But the "the tories" won the day and it was decided that our troops should have firearms. HOWEVER They were worried that if they ever became a minority or "the radicals" took over congress that they would strip soldiers of their "ability" to carry muskets and instead be handed a basket of Pomegranates. So, rather selfishly they created the 2nd amendment. a sad day for fruit fighters everywhere. That WAS the intent of the 2nd amendment, they were worried that "the state" or "the people" (meaning the state) would be stripped of its ability to arm its soldiers with firearms. What other reason were they worried that the army wouldn't be able to arm itself? huh?
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 11:20:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Time magazine...LOL

I would sooner take advise from a comic book.


advice

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