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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:06:14 PM EDT
This is an official ATF response regarding the the Western Arms type Gas Blow Back airsoft rifles - The "realistic" ones which I stated should have been the subject of the original investigation in the first place. Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out now for owners like me and retailers who have significant stock on hand inside the US.
   By the way, it's still bullshit. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:11:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Hold the phone, I just figured out how I can save a ton of money and not buy real lowers.
All I have to do is a little of this, and a little of that, and a little of this, and don't forget that special thing ... yeah that one. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:11:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Why did you raise this issue in the first place with them?
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:11:56 PM EDT
[#3]
"We turned your gun into a machine gun, so because it's now a machine gun, it was a machine gun before we started machining this into a machine gun. How would you like to dispose of your machine gun you criminal?"
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:12:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Are you going to file a claim that they are in error, or just cut the lower Spike's style and wait for the manufacturer to make a ATF-approved upgrade?
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:12:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Holy fuck, the ATF is now arbitrarily banning toys.
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:13:44 PM EDT
[#6]
What I have in my hand is a nice chunk of aluminum.
All you need to do is take a little off here, hollow out there, drill here and there, and there... and remove a bit here, and VOILA.. a machine gun! |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:13:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Why did you raise this issue in the first place with them? I'm not that stupid... but someone else was.  |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:14:12 PM EDT
[#8]
I saw this on Arnies and thought about posting it.
BTW these are 650.00 weapons. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:14:39 PM EDT
[#9]
We modified the hell out of the receiver, replaced all internal parts, and got it to fire; so we're calling it a firearm. Goddamn, you could classify a plastic cutting board as a firearm that way
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:14:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Holy fuck, the ATF is now arbitrarily banning toys. Well, they haven't been allowed any bonfires in *years* so they're getting a bit twitchy. They had to do something! |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:15:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Where's the original thread? How did they get a hold of it, just in the mail?
Sucks for you, dude.
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:15:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Why did you raise this issue in the first place with them? Bingo.   |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:15:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Shit, my first double tap! In an ATF thread no less, better hide the dog!
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:15:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I saw this on Arnies and thought about posting it. BTW these are 650.00 weapons. Now they are 650.00 felonies. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:16:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Koo, I think i'll buy a lower
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:16:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: We modified the hell out of the receiver, replaced all internal parts, and got it to fire; so we're calling it a firearm. Goddamn, you could classify a plastic cutting board as a firearm that wayAll sheet metal is now a machine gun because a little time with a template and a bending press will make you a perfectly functional AK47 full auto receiver. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:16:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Material + tools + machining + machine gun parts + time = could make toy item into machine gun
Therefore it is a machine gun
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:18:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
"We turned your gun into a machine gun, so because it's now a machine gun, it was a machine gun before we started machining this into a machine gun. How would you like to dispose of your machine gun you criminal?" No shit. Give me enough time and tools, and I can turn a blank piece of 7075 into an M-16 lower and make the relevant fire control parts. Does having a block of 7075 and some 8620 pieces, along with a mill and some tooling constitute constructive intent? |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:19:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Why did you raise this issue in the first place with them? Bingo. Again for clarification: I never contacted the ATF, never sent them an airsoft rifle to test, and am only posting the ATF's response to some moron who did. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:19:41 PM EDT
[#20]
So, can I buy one of these airsofts from you? Not that I would follow the explicit and detailed instructions from ATF on how to modify the airsoft, but I would really, really like one. Does it come with the orange barrel tip so that everyone will know it is a toy?
ETA: Seriously, you DO know that you will be contacted by ATF shortly, once they receive the customer lists from all the dealers. They have a track history of doing this, and will require that you to turn it in to them with no compensation. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:20:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
"We turned your gun into a machine gun, so because it's now a machine gun, it was a machine gun before we started machining this into a machine gun. How would you like to dispose of your machine gun you criminal?" No shit. Give me enough time and tools, and I can turn a blank piece of 7075 into an M-16 lower and make the relevant fire control parts. Does having a block of 7075 and some 8620 pieces, along with a mill and some tooling constitute constructive intent? You damn well better not send them a letter asking if it is. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:20:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Dude, we're all felons. Just no one has caught us yet.
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:20:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why did you raise this issue in the first place with them? Bingo.
+1. If you can't handle the answer, don't ask. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:21:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: I saw this on Arnies and thought about posting it. BTW these are 650.00 weapons. Now they are 650.00 felonies. I'm one of the crazies that dumped 4G on one, like hell are they taking that from me.  |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:21:50 PM EDT
[#25]
So much for "you can have all the machinegun parts you want as long as it shoots one round at a time.
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:22:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Dude, we're all felons. Just no one has caught us yet. +1 |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:22:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why did you raise this issue in the first place with them? Bingo. +1. If you can't handle the answer, don't ask. -1 Reading comprehension. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:23:06 PM EDT
[#28]
So could a solid block of aluminum be construed as a machine gun now?
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:23:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw this on Arnies and thought about posting it. BTW these are 650.00 weapons. Now they are 650.00 felonies. All the places that sell these are sold out, 
I guarantee the US dealers (AirsoftGI Evike etc) are gonna give their sell list over to ATF, But a bigger question If you have one are are you violating 922o, and could we challenge it with this? |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:23:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why did you raise this issue in the first place with them? Bingo. +1. If you can't handle the answer, don't ask. -1 Reading comprehension. No shit. Some people... |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:24:32 PM EDT
[#31]
ATF = faggots |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:24:38 PM EDT
[#32]
A tragic "airsoft naval engagement gone wrong" sounds to be in order.
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:25:01 PM EDT
[#33]
ATF sent out instructions on how tio convert airsoft into funtional lowers?
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:25:06 PM EDT
[#34]
for me the "you" is whoever brought it up...
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:25:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Dude, we're all felons. Just no one has caught us yet. There is your real answer. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:25:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
So could a solid block of aluminum be construed as a machine gun now? I'm wondering. If they don't think 7 steps and an hours work is out of line to convert something, what's off limits now? |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:25:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: So much for "you can have all the machinegun parts you want as long as it shoots one round at a time.  |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:26:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
So could a solid block of aluminum be construed as a machine gun now? Yes 
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:27:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Holy shit.
My welding truck has acetylene and oxygen cylinders on it. See? Not only a propellant gas, but oxygen to excite that combustion, too. And those cylinders could easily be machined into rocket body tubes.... If you see an old Power Wagon around these parts, stay out of my way, boys. I'm a rolling fucking WMD.
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:27:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: So could a solid block of aluminum be construed as a machine gun now? I'm wondering. If they don't think 7 steps and an hours work is out of line to convert something, what's off limits now? Kinda makes ya wonder about an awful lot of semi-auto firearms. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:28:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
ATF sent out instructions on how tio convert airsoft into funtional lowers? That's what I got out of this. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:30:04 PM EDT
[#42]
What is the definition of weapon?
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:30:25 PM EDT
[#43]
DOUBLE TAP
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:31:22 PM EDT
[#44]
The deadly plastic lower receiver in question and OMG! Are those cop-killer machine gun parts aswell? Why yes, yes they are.
 I bet once I put them together everyone in a three mile radius will instantly die. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:31:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
ATF = faggots Asshole- Tonguing Fags |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:33:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
So in their 'test', they didn't confirm full-auto operation but they claim that you now have a full auto weapon (or something easily made full auto)? They said no such thing. They said that they were able to fire it, single shot, and therefore it met the requirement of being a firearm, and that it wasn't imported by a licensed firearms importer, therefore it is an illegal firearm and must be confiscated. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:34:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I saw this on Arnies and thought about posting it. BTW these are 650.00 weapons. Now they are 650.00 felonies. I'm one of the crazies that dumped 4G on one, like hell are they taking that from me. Four (4) grand on one?!?! Holy hell, you could have had a real full auto for that much. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:34:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
What is the definition of weapon? A weapon is an instrument used to apply force for the purpose of causing harm or damage to persons, animals or structures Wikipedia |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:36:13 PM EDT
[#49]
So if they confiscate my RRA semi auto AR15 are they going to take a dremel to it to make it fire more than one round with the pull of a trigger just to charge me with a felony and get another evil gun out of another law abiding citizens hands.
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Posted: 6/6/2010 2:36:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: What is the definition of weapon? A weapon is an instrument used to apply force for the purpose of causing harm or damage to persons, animals or structures Wikipedia Since these are not weapons, the term firearm does not apply. The end. ––- This is a dangerous precedent because EVERY AR 15 can be made to fire full auto (and thus illegal in the hands of a lowly civilian) just by replacing some parts and drilling a hole. |
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