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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:03:07 PM EDT
I know Dick Swann sues people over patent infringement, but isn't that the point of protecting your designs with a patent? Anyway, I have had great service from ARMS gear over the years and was looking at their new polymer flip up sights. That got me wondering why ARMS went from once being arfcom cool to outright hatred for the company. Can someone explain this to me?
These look like a pretty cool new product for my M&P 15/22. 
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Posted: 3/7/2010 12:17:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it . 
Uhhhhh, it's from the Office of Campaign and Political Finance for the Massachusetts State Government, it's Coakley's campaign funding report. That's a little bit more than just some random internet page. Here, take another look. http://www.efs.cpf.state.ma.us/PrintFullReport.aspx?reportId=85076 Also, Swan is suing for the use of terms like "Throw Lever" which is a term which has been used for many years before his mounts ever existed. i did not realize it was the funding report , but if i sent a check in for 500 with your name as contributer it would show up as you gave the money , its a old political dirty trick for making people look like they support something they dont i am not trying to say dick did not give money to her , im just saying it looks questionable to me and i would like dick to explain it |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 12:32:11 PM EDT
[#2]
ARMS has mostly stood still while other manufacturers moved forward, time would be better spent in development instead of wasting other companies time with lawsuits. I never had to boot anyone from LaRue, Bobro, etc off the site for shilling.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 12:43:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it .
Uhhhhh, it's from the Office of Campaign and Political Finance for the Massachusetts State Government, it's Coakley's campaign funding report. That's a little bit more than just some random internet page. Here, take another look. http://www.efs.cpf.state.ma.us/PrintFullReport.aspx?reportId=85076 Also, Swan is suing for the use of terms like "Throw Lever" which is a term which has been used for many years before his mounts ever existed. i did not realize it was the funding report , but if i sent a check in for 500 with your name as contributer it would show up as you gave the money , its a old political dirty trick for making people look like they support something they dont i am not trying to say dick did not give money to her , im just saying it looks questionable to me and i would like dick to explain it So now someone would want to "frame" Dick Swan? |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:30:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Instead of updating their outdated and inferior designs, ARMS chose to trademark the number 17 and sue Larue over it. This needn't become a LaRue vs Arms thread. Since ARMS gears has served me well, I'm not seeing the inferior design you are talking about. BTW, I have no doubt LaRue makes top quality products. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:32:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: also I belive that the owners of ARMS also was donating a lot of cash to ani freedom (gun) canidates Can anyone offer proof of this? If true, it would mean the last of my $$$ ARMS ever saw. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=981020 Some more of his sue-happy bullshit. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=182955 |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:37:27 AM EDT
[#6]
I don't worry to much about his lawsuits to protect what he views as his intellectual property. Donating to socialist vermin candidates crosses a line in the sand with me though. That is stupid for a maker of firearms accessories. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:09:04 AM EDT
[#7]
There was a time when ARMS was to go to gear for mounts and rings. Vendors like MSTN regularly posted ARMS porn and everyone had to have the new 19S or 40L.
Then LaRue came out with better products. Apparently its not enough to buy they better product. To be one of the cool kids you have to trash to company it replaced. The market is fickle this way. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:12:26 AM EDT
[#8]
When do those come out?
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:13:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
When do those come out? I think they are brand new. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:15:17 AM EDT
[#10]
also I belive that the owners of ARMS also was donating a lot of cash to ani freedom (gun) canidates
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:21:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Instead of updating their outdated and inferior designs, ARMS chose to trademark the number 17 and sue Larue over it.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:24:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
also I belive that the owners of ARMS also was donating a lot of cash to ani freedom (gun) canidates Can anyone offer proof of this? If true, it would mean the last of my $$$ ARMS ever saw. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:55:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Instead of updating their outdated and inferior designs, ARMS chose to trademark the number 17 and sue Larue over it. This needn't become a LaRue vs Arms thread. Since ARMS gears has served me well, I'm not seeing the inferior design you are talking about. BTW, I have no doubt LaRue makes top quality products. This isn't a LaRue v A.R.M.S. thread. The OP asked why there was so much ARMS hatred and much of it can be directed to the fact ARMS tends to sue the competition rather that settle for the market share he has... or improve his products to take a bigger market share. ...and ARMS has sued LaRue! If I understand this correctly it was not that LaRue infringed on an ARMS design. It had to do with the number "17" being used as a product model number. Just the number. Some see this as CS |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 11:10:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I know Dick Swann sues people over patent infringement, but isn't that the point of protecting your designs with a patent? Anyway, I have had great service from ARMS gear over the years and was looking at their new polymer flip up sights. That got me wondering why ARMS went from once being arfcom cool to outright hatred for the company. Can someone explain this to me? These look like a pretty cool new product for my M&P 15/22. http://www.armsmounts.com/images/100_3570.gif http://www.armsmounts.com/images/100_3575.gif Magpul even got sued over the MBUS sights because they resembled the #40L. Dick must have been pissed that they were whipping his ass in sales. Magpul should sue the hell out of that Dick for making plastic sights. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 11:20:13 AM EDT
[#15]
i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it .
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Posted: 3/7/2010 11:42:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it . It was on federally required - campaign donations that are publicly listed. Both Dick and his wife donated to the anti gun Senate candidate for MA. I do like ARMS installable spacers ....since they give much more flexibility...but I despise Dick Swans attitude...which is why I switched to LaRue. I have one ARMS mount now (very low profile) that LaRue does not yet make. When Swan trademarked the number 17, as well as 5.56, etc...it showed me just how scummy he is. Will not buy any more ARMS products. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 11:46:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it . Uhhhhh, it's from the Office of Campaign and Political Finance for the Massachusetts State Government, it's Coakley's campaign funding report. That's a little bit more than just some random internet page. Here, take another look. http://www.efs.cpf.state.ma.us/PrintFullReport.aspx?reportId=85076 Also, Swan is suing for the use of terms like "Throw Lever" which is a term which has been used for many years before his mounts ever existed. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 11:54:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
There was a time when ARMS was to go to gear for mounts and rings. Vendors like MSTN regularly posted ARMS porn and everyone had to have the new 19S or 40L. Then LaRue came out with better products. Apparently its not enough to buy they better product. To be one of the cool kids you have to trash to company it replaced. The market is fickle this way. 
You act like Dick Swan doesn't contribute to anti-gun politicians or sue people because they make a better product, or because he thinks he can patent the number 17. Why would you leave details like that out? |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 12:02:43 PM EDT
[#19]
I'll be back in a while to add my $.02 |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 12:06:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Wow, your either blind or you like carrying your teeth in a chiclets box. Shouldn't this be in GD, I don't see any way this about tech.
Quoted: i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it . |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:06:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There was a time when ARMS was to go to gear for mounts and rings. Vendors like MSTN regularly posted ARMS porn and everyone had to have the new 19S or 40L. Then LaRue came out with better products. Apparently its not enough to buy they better product. To be one of the cool kids you have to trash to company it replaced. The market is fickle this way.
You act like Dick Swan doesn't contribute to anti-gun politicians or sue people because they make a better product, or because he thinks he can patent the number 17. Why would you leave details like that out? Because the ARMS bashing started long before that stuff ever came to light. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:08:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Their products are the best thing out there...
or rather they were about a decade ago. That in itself isn't particularly damning, but the fact that Dick Swan is a sue-happy douchbag who'd rather spend his money on lawyers and anti-gun politicians than R&D means he can go piss up a slack halyard. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:10:23 PM EDT
[#23]
I never had to boot anyone from LaRue, Bobro, etc off the site for being an ass...
This is true!! Trust me, I tried real hard.... 
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:11:04 PM EDT
[#24]
I was shocked at how easily the ARMS products broke when I took LaRue up on their trade in program. ARMS throw levers seem to be made of pot metal.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:19:50 PM EDT
[#25]
I own both. LaRue > ARMS, IMO.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:21:16 PM EDT
[#26]
In the lower picture, notice the large screw head on the part that mates with the rail. Notice how the slot has been Dicked up by using the improper tool or technique.
I would not do this to my equipment, or your equipment, let alone post a picture of the abortion on the internet... This - is our product. It is Dicked, or did you notice? I will keep my MBUS, thanks. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:22:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Que the Tactical Dildo motivational pic.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:22:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
In the lower picture, notice the large screw head on the part that mates with the rail. Notice how the slot has been Dicked up by using the improper tool or technique. I would not do this to my equipment, or your equipment, let alone post a picture of the abortion on the internet... This - is our product. It is Dicked, or did you notice? HOLY SHIT 
Right you are... |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:23:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it . You might want to try pulling your head out of your ass before you post. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:28:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: HOLY SHITIn the lower picture, notice the large screw head on the part that mates with the rail. Notice how the slot has been Dicked up by using the improper tool or technique. I would not do this to my equipment, or your equipment, let alone post a picture of the abortion on the internet... This - is our product. It is Dicked, or did you notice? Right you are...Yeah, I thought that was a hoot, I mean for crying out loud what a dufus. I'd want the product that I was trying to sell to shine like a diamond in a goat's ass.  |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:31:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
HOLY SHITIn the lower picture, notice the large screw head on the part that mates with the rail. Notice how the slot has been Dicked up by using the improper tool or technique. I would not do this to my equipment, or your equipment, let alone post a picture of the abortion on the internet... This - is our product. It is Dicked, or did you notice? Right you are...Yeah, I thought that was a hoot, I mean for crying out loud what a dufus. I'd want the product that I was trying to sell to shine like a diamond in a goat's ass.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:32:01 PM EDT
[#32]
For all you guys laughing at the bungled screw, look closer. The product is a polymer sight that is much trimmer and has a better latching mechanism than Magpul plastic sights. Dick may support commies, but the new sights look like nice products. I can't let the commie support slide though. I'll be buying something other than ARMS from now on.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:32:49 PM EDT
[#33]
There's not really any arms hatred. It's more like a mob mentality, slobbering, ignorant, rabid Larue fanboyism.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:35:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
There's not really any arms hatred. It's more like a mob mentality, slobbering, ignorant, rabid Larue fanboyism. I have to agree, that does appear to be the case. Still, DS is providing some of the fuel for the fire. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 1:40:44 PM EDT
[#35]
A good sig line from over on lightfighter:
"A.R.M.S. Mounts: helping terrorists walk away unscathed since 1980" |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:10:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Whole lot of dumbassedness in here regarding patents and protecting them.
#1 Patents cost money...A LOT of money, if they are done right. If IP is not written correctly, it isn't worth the paper it's written on. There will be too many work arounds. To get a patent written to the point that it is valuable, you will be paying a patent att'y 25k MIN. And that's for a simple patent. Then there is the filing cost, the prosecution cost (when the USPTO office official rejects it...the default mode) foriegn filing cost which is considerably more expensive than the US. #2 R&D costs money A LOT of money. Prototypes and itterations thereof are expensive. (I'm a tool maker and believe me, I'm not cheap) #3 If you don't persue legal action on one infringement, any other infringement has an argument that you didn't prosecute the first one. Why go to the expense and trouble of patenting IP (intellectual property) if you're not going to defend it. Are you in business to be a nice guy and let people copy your IP and make money from it? #4 The USPTO decides what is patentable and what is not. You can try to patent the "number 17" but it will be rejected. Statements like," He thinks he can patent anything" are ignorant of the process. I have no idea as to whether Dick contributed to entities with goals counter to ours. I'm only pointing out the stupidity of slamming a person who is an entrepenuer and willing to protect his investment. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:18:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
A good sig line from over on lightfighter: "A.R.M.S. Mounts: helping terrorists walk away unscathed since 1980" I bet there are more than a few tangos that are in no condition to refute that.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:18:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh100/arkansasprolawns/popcorn-gazelle.gif I'll be back in a while to add my $.02 That picture made me... and then it made me some more... |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:19:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Whole lot of dumbassedness in here regarding patents and protecting them. #1 Patents cost money...A LOT of money, if they are done right. If IP is not written correctly, it isn't worth the paper it's written on. There will be too many work arounds. To get a patent written to the point that it is valuable, you will be paying a patent att'y 25k MIN. And that's for a simple patent. Then there is the filing cost, the prosecution cost (when the USPTO office official rejects it...the default mode) foriegn filing cost which is considerably more expensive than the US. #2 R&D costs money A LOT of money. Prototypes and itterations thereof are expensive. (I'm a tool maker and believe me, I'm not cheap) #3 If you don't persue legal action on one infringement, any other infringement has an argument that you didn't prosecute the first one. Why go to the expense and trouble of patenting IP (intellectual property) if you're not going to defend it. Are you in business to be a nice guy and let people copy your IP and make money from it? #4 The USPTO decides what is patentable and what is not. You can try to patent the "number 17" but it will be rejected. Statements like," He thinks he can patent anything" are ignorant of the process. I have no idea as to whether Dick contributed to entities with goals counter to ours. I'm only pointing out the stupidity of slamming a person who is an entrepenuer and willing to protect his investment. Thanks for the common sense. There is no shame in a man protecting his patent. I won't defend his giving to the commie bitch's campaign. That is way out of line. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:20:29 PM EDT
[#40]
I seem to recall Mr. Swan on this board, under troll accounts, stirring shit.
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:21:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
There was a time when ARMS was to go to gear for mounts and rings. Vendors like MSTN regularly posted ARMS porn and everyone had to have the new 19S or 40L. Then LaRue came out with better products. Apparently its not enough to buy they better product. To be one of the cool kids you have to trash to company it replaced. The market is fickle this way. half truth |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:22:04 PM EDT
[#42]
That got me wondering why ARMS went from once being arfcom cool to outright hatred for the company. Can someone explain this to me?
What you are seeing is a prime example of the "hive mind" in action. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:22:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There was a time when ARMS was to go to gear for mounts and rings. Vendors like MSTN regularly posted ARMS porn and everyone had to have the new 19S or 40L. Then LaRue came out with better products. Apparently its not enough to buy they better product. To be one of the cool kids you have to trash to company it replaced. The market is fickle this way. half truth Half truth? AR15Fan's recollection parallels my own. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:23:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it .
Uhhhhh, it's from the Office of Campaign and Political Finance for the Massachusetts State Government, it's Coakley's campaign funding report. That's a little bit more than just some random internet page. Here, take another look. http://www.efs.cpf.state.ma.us/PrintFullReport.aspx?reportId=85076 Also, Swan is suing for the use of terms like "Throw Lever" which is a term which has been used for many years before his mounts ever existed. i did not realize it was the funding report , but if i sent a check in for 500 with your name as contributer it would show up as you gave the money , its a old political dirty trick for making people look like they support something they dont i am not trying to say dick did not give money to her , im just saying it looks questionable to me and i would like dick to explain it 
Seems like your name is appropriate for your ARMS apologies. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:24:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: For all you guys laughing at the bungled screw, look closer. The product is a polymer sight that is much trimmer and has a better latching mechanism than Magpul plastic sights. Dick may support commies, but the new sights look like nice products. I can't let the commie support slide though. I'll be buying something other than ARMS from now on. The burden of proof is on you to tell us why. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:24:54 PM EDT
[#46]
I could care less when X company says, makes or does something that gives Y company a chapped pussy over it. This industry is cluster fuck sometimes.
I buy American gear and have for 20 yrs. I'm not selling any of my ARMS stuff and I've bought plenty of LaRue (shit ton) gear in the last few years but it wasn't because I was mad at A.R.M.S If A.R.M.S comes out with something I want I'll buy it tomorrow. I like the look of that new folding front BUIS they came out with last year. I think I'll order one tonight come to think of it. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:27:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
i like my arms mounts better than the larue mounts i own ,the arms mounts are more versital by just adding or taking out spacers . larue has some cool mounts but his cam lock was copied off the arms stuff even if he did add his lock mech he still copied it . as far as dick swan giving money to dem antigun nuts the only proof is some internet page that i could put george bushes name in place of his in about 2 seconds and i would not put it past larue to have sent the money to make dick look bad or viseversa if it was larues name on thier . i have no hate for either guy im just stating the way i see it .
Uhhhhh, it's from the Office of Campaign and Political Finance for the Massachusetts State Government, it's Coakley's campaign funding report. That's a little bit more than just some random internet page. Here, take another look. http://www.efs.cpf.state.ma.us/PrintFullReport.aspx?reportId=85076 Also, Swan is suing for the use of terms like "Throw Lever" which is a term which has been used for many years before his mounts ever existed. Do you have the report from Coakly's opponent?...business's sometimes hedge their bets by giving to both candidates. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:27:41 PM EDT
[#48]
One reason.....Dick Swan 'nuff said
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:28:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: I like the look of that new folding front BUIS they came out with last year. I think I'll order one tonight come to think of it. I have one of those, but have not installed it yet. it does look like a good design even though I think it is just held in place with regular set screws. The folding front sight design is pretty neat and locks solidly in place. |
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Posted: 3/7/2010 2:28:36 PM EDT
[#50]
ARMS practice of litigation over innovation basically puts them in last place as far as products go. If ARMS makes a product that has comparable products offered, the comparable products will be better. Something like an Aimpoint mount for example. LaRue, GG&G, ADM and Bobro all make a better mount.
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