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Posted: 6/20/2015 5:57:17 PM EDT
So...im going to get loads of flak for this one, but id like to know what you guys have to say about it

Airsoft training, yay or nay?

I was thinking id be a good idea, now i have a airsoft mk18 style weapon, played around with my buddies and its pretty fun
Now im not trying to do the whole military fan boy impressions with all that fake chinese import replicas
It would be the SHTF gear, and i woujld setup the airsoft rifle in the exact same way my ar15 is setup (Going to buy a new higher quality airsoft rifle for this as well)

Also think itd be fun to do some milsim games, be the closest thing to force on force training
Link Posted: 6/20/2015 6:05:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Personally I think it's good for training on some aspects.  If ur just running around with 13 year olds then ur waiting time
Link Posted: 6/20/2015 6:06:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Yeah playing around with them would be a waste of time, but i was thinking the more milsim games, ones where mostly former military and other serious people play
theyre also setup with chains of command and different units going after different objectives
And yes i know i should go to legit actual classes with instructors, but i figured this would be a nice way to get acquainted with my gear and weapon system controls
Link Posted: 6/21/2015 1:32:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Even seemingly just screwing around with Airsoft can be enlightening.
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 10:53:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 8/6/2015 9:40:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Depends entirely where you are located.



If you're far from a real range, and you can do more than shoot at cardboard in the basement or play with 13yr olds on the weekend, then it's a good training tool.



For me, there are several ranges nearby, and the only airsoft players in the area are highschool kids and xbox live rejects, so I'll spend the $400+ for a non-POS airsoft gun on ammo and enjoy practicing with the real sound, recoil and ballistics of my firearms.
Link Posted: 8/7/2015 9:32:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/8/2015 11:50:19 AM EDT
[#7]
One winter of shooting with a KWA glock in my back shop/garage made me a drastically better pistol shooter. I set up both bulls eye and 3 gun style stages plus ran paper drills like Dot Torture. Really its just more trigger time and more eye to front sight repetitions but shooting drills daily was both fun and way better than dry fire. It doesnt take the place of going to the range but I dont go to the range every day or even every week. With airsoft, I still get to shoot every day.

I like it so much Im trying to run down a decent AR to use to keep improving. Even a good gas blow back that costs $400 is a screaming deal over a new rifle and ammo, even/especially a .22 trainer, cause again, you can shoot every time you walk down to the basement.
Link Posted: 1/21/2016 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#8]
A similar discussion just popped up over on the Handgun Training forum.  I've been a huge proponent of using airsoft guns as training aids.  My first choice will always be gas powered guns with no exceptions on pistols, but for rifles KWA's newer ERGs (Electric Recoil Gun) would be a close second.  

In the case of my KWA LM4 it's really close to real weight and deminsions.  Due to the ATF they had to make some dimensional changes to the way the lower is built so it couldn't be converted to fire a real bullet.  King Arms brought in some gas guns years ago the ATF seized and because they were able to get it to fire one bullet (it destroyed the gun) banned their import.  KWA and WE both had to jump though a lot of hoops to get their Gas Blowback airsoft guns into the country.

It's not cheap for sure.  Magazines are 40 to 50 dollars a piece new (lots of used ones out there though) and I paid just under 400 for a new in box gun, in total I probably have close to 700 dollars worth of magazines and guns counting my pistol.  They do run on gas so that is part of the expense but with some adapters that I'll link below you can use standard camping propane bottles (just know it's going to stink sometimes haha) from walmart supplemented with some silicone oil in the neck of the bottle.  Green Gas, which is what KWA recommends for their guns, is propane with the stinky element removed and with silicone pre installed into the can.  Honestly my KWA guns eat mostly propane with the occasional mag or two of Green Gas.  

Maintenance of the guns is another issue.  They've gotten much better in recent years but they do get dirty and do need to be cleaned.  Lucky for us AR guys the Gas Blowback rifles break down just like our real ones and cleanup is similar but instead of gun oil you use silicone shock oil in the 20 or 30 weight range.  Also O-rings make the system run.  There are a few O-rings in the bolt assembly of the KWA LM4 for instance that will need to be replaced as a maintenance item every now and then.  I went 10k shots on mine before I changed it but I did see a big change in muzzle velocity.  

You can tailor the speeds as well by using different bolt assys.  KWA sells "high power" and "low power" bolts so you can change them out depending on what you want to do.  

People may scoff at actually going out and playing airsoft games but I'll be honest over the years it's really helped me shake out my SHTF gear and find out what really works for me. What works great walking around the house or garage you may find bounces around way to much when running and jumping and ducking behind cover.  Or you may find it chafes the shit out of you after wearing it all day on the field.  It may not be perfect force on force training but you get out of it what YOU put into it and again it's a great way to put your loadout though it's paces and see if you could really wear that shit all day long while performing tasks.  

I do a lot of pistol competition as well.  Usually the night before I'll setup a simple course of fire in my backyard mostly focusing on my draw stroke and reloads.  I've found it makes a noticeable difference in how I perform especially on that first run of the morning.  

KWA LM4  takes most "real steel" accessories and parts.  There are some nuances to the gun compared to a real one but overall pretty easy to replicate whatever setup you have

http://www.amazon.com/KWA-LM4-PTR-GBB/dp/B00VDIDVUO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453385899&sr=8-2&keywords=kwa+lm4

KWA LM4 magazines.  They do make magpul LM4 magazines but they have had issues with those with gas leakage.  And they weight more.  The STANAG LM4 magazines already weight just a bit over what a real loaded 30 rounder does.
http://www.amazon.com/KWA-Airsoft-Blowback-Rifle-Magazine/dp/B008CGYTTC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453385899&sr=8-1&keywords=kwa+lm4

KWA ATP  This is a GLOCK/M&P hybrid of sorts.  I use it to replicate my GLOCK.  Fits some GLOCK holsters and all M&P holsters that I've found.  If it a Kydex concealment holster you'll need to find a M&P holster but if you have something like a SERPA or the like laying around for a GLOCK it will fit that as well
http://www.amazon.com/MiR-Tactical-ATP-Adaptive-Training/dp/B018BAUQKE/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453385899&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=kwa+lm4


I'll have to get a picture of my guns when I get home.  The gear I use with my airsoft guns is the exact same gear I use for my real stuff as well.
Link Posted: 1/21/2016 10:49:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 12:04:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Training- yes

Real outdoor arena- in the woods or a sim shoot house- yes
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 2:56:06 PM EDT
[#11]
It's been a while since I bought pellets,
but I think they were $25 for 3500 of the
heavier ones, which I like to use. Add in
the propane & that's thousands of rounds
for minimal cost out of a very realistic
training platform. I have an Magpul M4
with a real Trijicon Reflex & a Walther P99.
My holsters & mag pouches work with
them just like my real ones.

I get my my son to set up IPSC targets
around the yard & drive way & I go
clear them. It gives me the ability to
shoot 360 degrees with no worry
of my neighbors knowing what I am
doing.

I know the accuracy is not anywhere
near the real ones, but if you keep that
in mind for your practice distances, that
becomes a moot point.

For the realism & affordable trigger time,
airsoft is a great resource. I know of a
few LE departments that use it for their
training, as well.

Edit to add: I was invited to a Haley live
fire clinic a few years ago through a
connection with airsoft. I didn't get
to go, but it was pretty cool that Haley
invited us.

John
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 1:33:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Having some fun at a local field over the weekend.  Employing things I've learned and most important in my head moving, running, taking cover, ect in gear that I have setup for my actual real firearms.  

Link Posted: 2/29/2016 6:12:05 PM EDT
[#13]
its worth it, not only do you get cheap fun trigger time, all your real gear will work with airsoft. I go about every other weekend to private land in san diego in the mountains so altitude and temperture is an issue. its a fun way to safely shoot someone, its all of the adrenaline and none of the fear.

with gas guns you have all the same functions as real steel BUT Tokyo Marui recoil shock system will be a fiscally more responsible purchase. look into it, make your decision. Tokyo Marui are the original pioneers and G&P are the original clones if you want upgrades galore get a used G&P gas gun as Kwa is not compatible with easily 80% of upgrades and repair parts floating around.
Seriously though TM makes a new aeg system that id pick over any gas or electric gun out there,  just drop in a spectre fet and you would have all the fuctions and realism of a gas gun but with NONE of the problems.

it can get just as expensive as real steel so set a price and STICK TO IT. My airsoft gun costs more than a lot of off the shelf ar's.
Link Posted: 3/1/2016 2:32:40 PM EDT
[#14]
From my experience as a ground weapons and active shooter response instructor, I would say yes. In my line of work, we use simunitions or "sims" to emulate realistic combat conditions. However, there are a few major drawbacks to the use of sims. Sims require expensive replacement parts to alter your firearm. They are very expensive to operate and maintain. They are also horribly inaccurate and malfunction prone. This is where I feel Airsoft has an advantage. Airsoft guns are relatively low maintenance, inexpensive to operate, and provide a very realistic feel. As with every training platform, Airsoft does have drawbacks. Clearing, loading, immediate and remedial actions are very different unless you run a gas type airsoft weapon. In addition to those very obvious facts, the crowd (as mentioned) is generally full of young and reckless teenagers.  Your best bet, build a  shoothouse that will accommodate the use of frang or ball ammunition.
Link Posted: 6/26/2016 5:08:43 PM EDT
[#15]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I highly recommend airsoft as a training vehicle.  Not necessarily the running around shooting other guys but to maintain skills with the manual of arms.  The gunfights you and I likely to be involved in are more about gun handling than tactics.  Can you get good center of mass shots from your holstered pistol in the time necessary to not place 2d in the fight?  Professional training will provide the initial skills but they're perishable.



Dick's (AKA Toys-R-Us) airsoft or the $19 manual cocking gun show guns are of little use.  Like most things quality items provide the most value.  A good airsoft gas blow back (GBB) pistol runs about $150.  Good GBB M4 carbine will be close to $400.  You'll need green gas and BBs.



The value of airsoft is how easy and often I can practice (recall that practice without training just reinforce bad or inefficient skills).  My 1/2 acre suburban lot has more than enough range to shoot airsoft safely.  I can hang a blanket backstop in my garage or basement during the winter. In fact I've sold my .22LR AR15 since even that requires a trip to the range which is at least 45 minutes away.  



At pistol ranges, say 10 meters and closer, either of my gas powered pistols will consistently put BBs in the 0-ring of a standard IDPA target if I do my job during the presentation from the holster. As gas guns there's the ability for follow up shots and the recoil (while mild) is enough to disturb the front sights during followup.  Trigger press, reset, press.  I can knock down 9" metal silhouettes easily at the same ranges.  Limited magazine capacity requires mag changes when the slide locks open.  



Rifles are similar and at longer ranges.  Good airsoft carbines mimic their cartridge versions very closely.  Same manual of arms, same sight pictures, etc.  The manual of arms is critical.  No airsoft gun offers the same stoppage clearing training of cartridge gun though.



I've been using KWA Professional Training airsoft for about three years now.  M4 carbine, M9 and M1911 pistols.  These are all gas powered with very satisfactory simulation of my service weapons.  Green gas is relatively expensive but BBs cost less than a penny.  To minimize the "tracer effect" and force myself to use the sights a I use dark colored BBs, not white.  Biodegradable BBs will just blend into your lawn.



Automatic Electric Guns (rifles) use a rechargeable battery and magazine capacities over 300!  Not real training for me.  KWA makes an RM4 "electric recoil" M4 carbine with simulated recoil and a switchable magazine capacity of 30 or 60 rounds.  Very nice gun and recommended.  And you can also use one of those 300 round magazines if you want.



And after a long day at work it's sometimes time to just put the selector of the LM4 (or RM4) on CROWD and sent a full magazine down range!  



-- Chuck



http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p533/chuck_f_s/Airsoft/IMG_1772-1_zpsdcd54473.jpg



http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p533/chuck_f_s/Service%20Pistols/P1010009.jpg





View Quote
Chuck,



If I wanted to modify one of these to use a SIRT training laser bolt, is it possible? I would love do AR dry fire practice along with my SIRT Glock, but we are not allowed real firearms in the barracks.



Does the upper break apart similar to a real AR? Could the recoil and trigger reset be maintained in the airsoft rifle somehow if the Bolt area was removed to install a SIRT laser bolt?



 
Link Posted: 7/25/2016 12:15:54 AM EDT
[#16]
I saw this post and i really like the idea and can see it really helpful for practicing in your house too, which is where i would most likely use my pistol since i live in IL and CDW is pretty damn pointless. Plus I am an OC fan

I have the five-seven MKII is this what i am looking for? Any help would be appreciated. I have a holster for the MKII i would want to use.

http://www.evike.com/products/45591/
Link Posted: 7/25/2016 1:42:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I saw this post and i really like the idea and can see it really helpful for practicing in your house too, which is where i would most likely use my pistol since i live in IL and CDW is pretty damn pointless. Plus I am an OC fan

I have the five-seven MKII is this what i am looking for? Any help would be appreciated. I have a holster for the MKII i would want to use.

http://www.evike.com/products/45591/
View Quote


Should be good to go.  Fully licensed copies are usually damn near exact external replicas.  Below is a licensed copy of a S&W M&P9 next to my wife's real M&P9.


Link Posted: 7/25/2016 2:05:24 AM EDT
[#18]
yea but is that MKII or MK1? MK1/MK2 have different cases...so confused :/

looks mk 1 to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_kLGlmAAY

Buy a second holster?
Link Posted: 8/10/2016 6:04:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Bolt guns:

http://www.airsoftgi.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=14966

http://www.airsoftgi.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=2790

AR:

Add "Elite force" high on my list of my recommend brands.

http://www.airsoftgi.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=20566

http://www.airsoftgi.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=19472


Link Posted: 8/10/2016 6:20:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Having some fun at a local field over the weekend.  Employing things I've learned and most important in my head moving, running, taking cover, ect in gear that I have setup for my actual real firearms.  

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/l/t1.0-9/12717640_10208954184117964_8112088709099620449_n.jpg?oh=63e66476a71654abc133b32ae31b7510&oe=57710A11
View Quote


This- wear your kit. Be agressive. People call hard hitting airsoft guns. You want them to be right at the FIELD FPS LIMIT.

Pistols and sub guns have to chrono at 350 FPS OR LESS. No full auto indoors. No MED

Most outdoor arenas allow rifles up to 400fps with Full auto outside of buildings. 20ft MED

Those arenas also allow auto LMG & semi DMR up to 450 FPS 50ft med

The fun is where you have an arena that allows 550 FPS single shot sniper rifles - bolt, or toggle. Watching a BB slip into a window at 250 ft is worth every moment sweating,  waiting for the shot. 100ft MED.

All these speeds have seperate minimum engagement distances.

For me Airsoft is all about what I do with the rifle. How I move, and how I leave my kit. Everything that happens after the BB leave the barrel is pure fantasy. It has no real bearing on modern firearms. Do it for the exercise, for the movement practice, and muscle memory.


Link Posted: 8/10/2016 6:29:22 PM EDT
[#21]
My Son and I like to save Boneyard guns. Buy a broken gun that is normally $220 - 300 for $60. Then fix it for $20 more and shoot the shit out of it.

Mine:


Mine and his:


His:


Him being way cooler than I'll ever be.


Link Posted: 8/10/2016 6:31:59 PM EDT
[#22]

Link Posted: 8/29/2016 9:02:07 AM EDT
[#23]
I just moved back home to texas a few weeks ago.  I need to get down to D14.  I want to check out High Ground as well.
Link Posted: 9/24/2016 1:08:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Im an advanced firearms instructor for the govt' , we have been using airsoft guns for use of force training for a couple years now in conjunction with simunition guns. The airsoft guns tend to be more reliable and less expensive overall but they dont have the range and impact that the sim rounds do. Its actually good to stimulate pain in some training. Our airsoft guns tend to break in half though, lol, we're pretty rough on them.
Link Posted: 9/26/2016 4:22:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Im an advanced firearms instructor for the govt' , we have been using airsoft guns for use of force training for a couple years now in conjunction with simunition guns. The airsoft guns tend to be more reliable and less expensive overall but they dont have the range and impact that the sim rounds do. Its actually good to stimulate pain in some training. Our airsoft guns tend to break in half though, lol, we're pretty rough on them.
View Quote


Gas Blowback or Electric?
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