Does anyone know of any good medium to long range carbine training videos and classes?  Everything seems to cover hosing targets at 25 and 50 yards but I need to cover 200-600 yards techniques.

Thanks a lot.

Dustin

That's usually more in the realm of what highpower shooters deal with, the distances for highpower rifle across the course matches are 200, 300, and 600 yards...  Natural Point of Aim and using support become more important at those ranges, so you would probably want to look at more of the traditional shooting stances used in competition.

I have to shoot those distances in 3 gun with my carbine so thats why I'm asking.  I was fine in the Army but now I seem to be lacking, especially when I can't be prone.

Yeah, the Army doesn't really teach how to build a good body position, unless you manage to get into some advanced training.  As much as possible, you want to use skeletal structure or outside supports to support the weight of the firearm, instead of muscle strength.  This is why highpower shooters turn to the side and pull the lead elbow in against the rib cage when shooting offhand.  You're usually also going for much more precise trigger control.  Jim Owens at http://www.jarheadtop.com has a book on the "Leather Sling and Shooting Positions" that has some good information on using a sling and building the basic shooting positions used in higher competition, which are then modifiable for more dynamic shooting sports.  Even a hasty sling, properly used, will produce a dramatic improvement when shooting at longer distances, compared to shooting without a sling.



 

I would discuss this issue with Clint and Heidi at Thunder Ranch.  Clint is the God Father of Tactical Training and has amazing long range Tactical Training classes.  

www.thunderranchinc.com

I'm not trying to knock what you are doing at all, and the fact you can shoot past 300 yards and hit what you are aiming at is awesome when most gun owners, specifically AR owners couldn't hit the broad side of a bard, much less understand a proper zero on their guns.

But may I suggest you take a step back?
When would you ever realistically take a standing off hand shot on a target, other than the broad side of a barn at 600 yards?
The 5.56/.223 round wasn't even designed for that sort of thing, as far as being a practical man stopper at 600 yards.

What competition stresses shooting your rifle out of the scope of the capabilities?
What sort of optic are you running that is realistically going to allow you to shoot out to 600 yards, but also beable to make those fast close in shots that 3 gun, and 2 gun has?
Even a 1-8x optic is a pretty long shot on a medium to small piece of steel at 600 yards.

I ask not to be a smart ass, mostly because I'm curious. 600 yards is a long way from standing.

300-450 is pretty common at major matches.  It's a small percentage of targets but if you can't hit them then that makes a big difference.  600 isn't common but some matches like the MGM Iron Man have 600 yard targets and most people manage to make the hits.  I'm not dropping people right now, I'm just pinging steel in a timely fashion.  But I am going trying to go back into the Army and I will be pushing for a deployment before we pull out of there.  So longer range is important in that environment as well.  

Those shots are not usually standing but crouching, kneeling or sitting supported on a barricade is common.  Sometimes prone is possible but not always.  This summer I had to take some shots at 320 yard flashers from a tree line while standing, supported on a tree.  That didn't work so I managed to get into a high kneeling position but prone wasn't possible at all and kneeling was tough because of some natural barriers in my line of fire.  Most just made the shots standing.  I almost timed out on that one and later that year I timed out on a 400 yard under similar circumstances.  Those 2 courses have really made me see the need to stop focusing on close range and move out.  Plus I want to try my hand at the Iron Man next season and I don't want to blow the long range stuff.  Timing out on those shots is the difference between top of the score sheet and the bottom.  I could always take a pot shot to avoid a failure to engage and take the miss penalty but I'm not ok with that.

My optic is a Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x.  Targets are tiny at 500-600 yards but I can see them and a number of competitors use my optic or less to make those hits at 500 and 600.  Marines also qualify at 500 yards with irons as I understand it.


ETA: Also if you can consistently tag 500 and 600 yard targets, you can engage the more common 300 and 400 yard target even more consistently.  

The longer distance targets at MGM Ironman are generally bonus targets (600m-900m).  The main steel rifle targets are from 100-500yds (one range is all meters, others are yards).  Having basic DOPE for your rifle and ammo for distances past 200yds is really important at this match.  Never mind the ability to make solid wind calls (high desert in Idaho is windy).

Having said that, Hi power is a good way to practice basic rifle marksmanship using no methods of support in standing, sitting, and prone positions. Just do the shooting w/o a sling to practice for 3gun.  The limiting factor in hi power is most shooting is done at 200yds and fired on reduced size targets to simulate the 300 and 600yds engagements.  

I am fortunate in Arizona our regular club match's shoot out to 500+ yards (sometimes even further) on a monthly basis.

Marine Recruits at MCRD use TA-31 ACOG's now. But yes they used to qualify with irons at 500 yards but the targets were full size silhouettes.

I recommend you look at how Kyle Lamb teaches different crunching positions and sitting positions, he has some really cool stuff and it's incredibly stable compared to your standard crouch or Indian style sitting position.

       



















 

Sent you an IM

Learn how to get into and out of stable shooting positions quickly.
A Navy qual drill is a great place to start.

As far as asking for drills, think about what you need to accomplish and then ways to accomplish it.
Speed?  Add a timed element.  Shot-timers are awesome for this.  A smartphone is a decent stop-gap.
Fine motor skill movement?  Add something akin to a sorting or small puzzle activity.  I have shooters sort a dozen cards by-suit, by-color, by number, etc.
Accuracy?  Add an element of shooting-for-score.  

I would recommend practicing more principles, rather than copying an activity.

I have used [and have seen many others use] similar positions in a real setting, they have a legitimate place.