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Posted: 4/24/2012 3:53:37 PM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2012 4:01:21 PM by Scuds03]
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT Also her POI is completely free from any over penetration issues covering the doorway. Any help in making an SOP will be highly appriciated. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:07:57 PM
now someone whos been thinking of breaking in to your house knows the plan.
opsec. use it |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:09:42 PM
Needs moar MS Paint. I can't picture what you're saying.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:13:42 PM
Originally Posted By xachary82:
now someone whos been thinking of breaking in to your house knows the plan. opsec. use it You really can't be serious ....There's no address to go with this info....If you can tell me my address then I'll worry about the opsec of this online conversation. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:13:46 PM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2012 4:14:05 PM by hellbound]
Originally Posted By xachary82:
now someone whos been thinking of breaking in to your house knows the plan. opsec. use it AR15.com and google are like fuck buddies type "defending a bedroom" into google search...
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=defending+a+bedroom |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:16:00 PM
Originally Posted By Scuds03:
Originally Posted By xachary82:
now someone whos been thinking of breaking in to your house knows the plan. opsec. use it You really can't be serious ....There's no address to go with this info....If you can tell me my address then I'll worry about the opsec of this online conversation. thhats not the point, what if I know you, or someone else on here does... and now they know |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:29:54 PM
Extremely rough sketch of APT layout
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:30:54 PM
Originally Posted By xachary82:
Originally Posted By Scuds03:
Originally Posted By xachary82:
now someone whos been thinking of breaking in to your house knows the plan. opsec. use it You really can't be serious ....There's no address to go with this info....If you can tell me my address then I'll worry about the opsec of this online conversation. thhats not the point, what if I know you, or someone else on here does... and now they knowNo one on here knows me personally. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 5:11:24 PM
Another idea may involve motion-activated lighting. That way, the intruder gets an eyeful of bright light as he enters the bedroom door. YOU, and your wife, know about this lighting and are prepared for it.
Another idea is to put the motion-activated light across the room from her, say, directly across from the door. This will draw the attacker's attention from her to the light, affording her 2-3 seconds more recognition time. Another idea is to strategically arrange the furniture in your bedroom/house to make a sort of 'zigzag' for the intruder to follow or trip over. YOU know the pattern; he doesn't*. Ever seen the movie "Enough?" J Lo is being terrorized by her asshole ex, and she plans her escape around several 'traps' the BG must walk through, giving her time to get her and her son to the car. One of my plans** is to cut the power to my house at the indoor circuit breaker if there's an imminent break-in. I have the weapon light, etc and know the layout; they don't. And.. Congratulations on getting your SO on board with your preparations! Your next step should be to get some professional training. *I have set up my own home in this manner; my friends think I'm a lazy bachelor but I know better! **I've planned for 2 or 3 contingencies, for example, being followed into my house, imminent break-in (they haven't got through the door yet), break-in has happened, and a couple of others. NEVER assume that you will face only one situation. The NRA has a very good book about self-protection in the home. LINK HERE. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:54:59 PM
Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
Another idea may involve motion-activated lighting. That way, the intruder gets an eyeful of bright light as he enters the bedroom door. YOU, and your wife, know about this lighting and are prepared for it. Another idea is to put the motion-activated light across the room from her, say, directly across from the door. This will draw the attacker's attention from her to the light, affording her 2-3 seconds more recognition time. Another idea is to strategically arrange the furniture in your bedroom/house to make a sort of 'zigzag' for the intruder to follow or trip over. YOU know the pattern; he doesn't*. Ever seen the movie "Enough?" J Lo is being terrorized by her asshole ex, and she plans her escape around several 'traps' the BG must walk through, giving her time to get her and her son to the car. One of my plans** is to cut the power to my house at the indoor circuit breaker if there's an imminent break-in. I have the weapon light, etc and know the layout; they don't. And.. Congratulations on getting your SO on board with your preparations! Your next step should be to get some professional training. *I have set up my own home in this manner; my friends think I'm a lazy bachelor but I know better! **I've planned for 2 or 3 contingencies, for example, being followed into my house, imminent break-in (they haven't got through the door yet), break-in has happened, and a couple of others. NEVER assume that you will face only one situation. The NRA has a very good book about self-protection in the home. LINK HERE. Great post, thank you..Wish i could say the same for some of the other replies I got from other members.. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:42:25 AM
Personally, if someone is in my home with ill intent, I'm not going to give them a warning to give away my position. I'm not a lawyer and your mileage may vary.
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Posted: 4/25/2012 7:43:17 PM
Originally Posted By mdb212:
Personally, if someone is in my home with ill intent, I'm not going to give them a warning to give away my position. I'm not a lawyer and your mileage may vary. Roger that |
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Posted: 4/27/2012 9:50:10 PM
Originally Posted By Scuds03:
Originally Posted By mdb212:
Personally, if someone is in my home with ill intent, I'm not going to give them a warning to give away my position. I'm not a lawyer and your mileage may vary. Roger that "Dead people don't testify" -police instructor |
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Posted: 4/28/2012 8:31:03 PM
I would suggest placing some kind of cover element between your defense point and the door, like a book case.
Remember cover is hard concealment that provides protection for you, not just obscuring you from view (a couch is not cover, a waterbed can be). |
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Posted: 4/28/2012 9:46:08 PM
ARFCOM member Old_Painless has his own web site, theboxotruth.com
in which he explores various bullet-related issues. One of these issues is cover. Link to the sands o' truth. |
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Posted: 5/13/2012 11:22:31 AM
I think there's a lot more involved to this than just shooting positions & cover. Franksymptoms covered some ideas.
You don't have to lay your house out like a bunker to accomplish what you want. I also wouldn't be too concerned about over-penetration. A house alarm is a must if you are leaving your wife home alone. A land line or access to a phone or a cell charger is going to be a big deal because shes going to need to get on the phone with the police during/after the ordeal. A bedroom door that locks easily, along with another set in the bathroom as a final fallback area would be suggested. If there aren't any kids in the place you aren't going to running & gunning clearing rooms through your house, you are going to fall back and hold what you have while you get on the phone. They could have a UHAUL truck loading all of your valuables up while you or your wife stay safe in your room.. absolutely nothing in your house is worth getting shot or having the legal repercussions of having to shoot somebody if you can avoid it. |
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Posted: 5/13/2012 2:53:56 PM
[Last Edit: 5/13/2012 3:02:04 PM by TMA]
Originally Posted By unpleasant:
I think there's a lot more involved to this than just shooting positions & cover. Franksymptoms covered some ideas. You don't have to lay your house out like a bunker to accomplish what you want. I also wouldn't be too concerned about over-penetration. A house alarm is a must if you are leaving your wife home alone. A land line or access to a phone or a cell charger is going to be a big deal because shes going to need to get on the phone with the police during/after the ordeal. A bedroom door that locks easily, along with another set in the bathroom as a final fallback area would be suggested. If there aren't any kids in the place you aren't going to running & gunning clearing rooms through your house, you are going to fall back and hold what you have while you get on the phone. They could have a UHAUL truck loading all of your valuables up while you or your wife stay safe in your room.. absolutely nothing in your house is worth getting shot or having the legal repercussions of having to shoot somebody if you can avoid it. Well said "unpleasant". Either we have: taken training from the same instructors, talked to the same lawyers about home defense, or we have just come to the same conclusions due to common life experiences. Your advice is almost identical to what my lawyer and various instructors have told me to do. I am going to restate what I believe "unpleasant" said, hopefully by rewording his excellent post I will add some value to the discussion. The defenders primary goal in this scenario is to survive with the least amount of physical and psychological damage possible. Killing somebody in your house is going to cause a great amount of psychological damage. Minimizing financial damage due to property loss is the least of your concerns (if it is something you are worried about, you should already have property insurance). On the other hand minimizing financial loss from writing checks to lawyers and missing work due to involvement with the criminal justice system should be a relatively high priority. To prepare for this scenario; a lock needs to be pre-installed on the bedroom door, a telephone needs to permanently reside within arm's reach of the pre-chosen defensive location. And most importantly, the defender must be familiar enough with whatever weapon they are going to use that they can operate it without consciously thinking about it. I think the concept of cover inside of most houses is over blown; without custom building a house with concrete or metal interior walls, cover is very hard to create. What may act as cover for a .22 LR may only be concealment against a shotgun with slugs or a rifle. Cover is relative to the round it is trying to stop, concealment on the other hand is concealment no matter what the Bad Guy (BG) is using. I would therefore place a table, chair, dresser, whatever; just in front of the defensive position to break up the defender's outline. This will make it harder for the BG to locate and effectively attack the defender. I would place the concealment object close enough to the defender that it did no inhibit their ability to shoot anybody coming into or through the room (i.e. don't position a dresser or chair in such a way that by sidestepping a couple of feet, the defender is no longer able to point their weapon at the BG). Don't crowd (get too close to) the cover/concealment. The scenario begins: Wife/GF/you are at home when you hear/notice somebody is trying to forcefully break in to your house. Immediately drop what you are doing and retreat to the bedroom. Close and lock the bedroom door behind you. Move to your preplanned defensive position and access you defensive firearm/weapon. Make the weapon ready for use. Once you are ready to defend yourself against the BG, grab the phone and call 911. Tell the 911 operator that an unknown person is breaking into your house/has broken into your house. Give your name and address (if you are using a cell phone include your city and state as well). If you have time, give a brief description of yourself; 28 year old female w/shoulder length brown hair wearing a red blouse and white pants. Make a brief statement to the effect that you fear for your life and that you are armed (this will hopefully move the police response to your call up in priority). When the 911 operator tells you to put the firearm down, tell them you hear something outside the door and need to put the phone down. Put the phone down so that the mouthpiece is facing you (911 calls are recorded and will be used as evidence at the trial (yours or the BG's)). Personally, I would point my pistol/rifle/shotgun at the bottom of the door (along the edge of the door opposite of the hinges) in preparation for somebody breaking the door down and entering the room. Do not point the weapon at the door, do not shoot through the door either on purpose or by accident. If you shoot through the door, you will dramatically increase your odds of being charged with some form of a homicide. My training has convinced me that I can engage a target quicker by coming up on it, than by moving sideways. People tend to be taller than they are wide, making a vertical movement less likely to bypass (overshoot) the target. From this point on you wait for either the police to arrive or the BG to try to enter the room. If you hear the BG hauling everything you own out of your house, you just sit and wait. Do not leave your defensive position until the police have arrived and cleared the house. When/if the BG tries to turn the door knob and enter the room; I would scream something along the lines of: "Go away, do not enter, the police are on the way. I am armed and I will shoot you if you break in." You make the verbal warning for two reasons; first, hopefully the BG will take the hint and leave, thereby all you are out is your insurance deductable and some lost sleep due to the massive adrenalin dump. Second, if the BG chooses to break the door down after finding out you are armed; you know beyond a doubt that he intends to do great harm to you and has left you with no choice but to shoot. Also your warning and the BG's subsequent decision to attack will be recorded on the 911 tape, indicating to the police/prosecutor/jury that you were in reasonable fear of death and were justified in using lethal force. Do not have a firearm in your hands when the police see you, they will shoot you. If the BG has not forced the door and somebody is claiming to be the police, tell them you are armed and will not let them in until you are sure they are who they say they are. Ask for their names and badge numbers so you can check with the 911 operator to make sure they are really the police. If they are really the police, they will not object to this; if they object, they are not the police. YMMV, good luck p.s. I could probably write 20 pages of material just on the subtlies of this scenario that entered my head while I was typing this already overly wordy explanation. Mass Ayoob spends over an hour of lecture time during LFI-1 on nothing more than how to not get shot when the police arrive on scene. Edited for format. |
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Posted: 5/13/2012 9:53:43 PM
A land line or access to a phone or a cell charger is going to be a big deal because shes going to need to get on the phone with the police during/after the ordeal.
I've pointed this out before but it bears repeating: ANY cell phone can be used to call 911–– even if it isn't subscribed to a service provider*! So keep your old cell phone handy, by your nightstand (where you keep your gun) or whatever. * IF the technology is supported by the local cellular network. For example, an old bag phone, which worked on an analog signal, probably won't work at all. |
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Posted: 5/13/2012 10:07:36 PM
Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
A land line or access to a phone or a cell charger is going to be a big deal because shes going to need to get on the phone with the police during/after the ordeal.
I've pointed this out before but it bears repeating: ANY cell phone can be used to call 911–– even if it isn't subscribed to a service provider*! So keep your old cell phone handy, by your nightstand (where you keep your gun) or whatever. * IF the technology is supported by the local cellular network. For example, an old bag phone, which worked on an analog signal, probably won't work at all. Go to craigslist and buy a cheap pre paid phone and charger. 20 bucks should do it. Phone rests right next to rifle. |
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Posted: 5/14/2012 1:37:39 AM
[Last Edit: 5/14/2012 2:09:49 AM by CopM4]
.....she's been out to the range for a little "training" versus having the " mindset" to use/manipulate the rifle under timed
stress -are two different things. A lot of things can go wrong very fast under duress.... Secondly, this is Texas .....anyone that has broken into your home is fair game. A homeowner does not have to prove the bad guys "intent".... Before defending themselves. Teach her to keep that door covered muzzle up at midpoint. If she has time to call 911 ...while trying to juggle a rifle behind a bed while someone just broke inside a 1 bedroom apartment (were talking seconds) Great..but the weapon is the main priority. |
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Posted: 5/14/2012 4:54:36 PM
I haven't read everyone's post but a good idea is to incorporate some kind of cover such as a book case with books or magazines stacked side to side. You would be amazed how well they stops rounds. Get yourself a weapon mounted light so you don't have explain why you shot a dark object. Prepaid cell phone that remains charged and ACTIVATED. Also if you have the money go ahead and get you some soft body armor. UsPalm makes a quick throw on, front protection only vest.
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Posted: 5/16/2012 9:41:15 PM
The bedroom door is your tactical advantage in this diagram. It is the fatal funnel that the bad guys have to come through. Use that to your advantage. Move your camp right by your bathroom door. Then when the bad guy comes in, he has to turn to engage you. That's all the time you and the AR15 will need to get the job done. As it's diagrammed now, he could engage you in half the time. Unless the guy is trained, and he is VERY unlikely to be trained, he will not clear the corners first. Use that to survive this scenario.
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Posted: 6/8/2012 11:06:34 AM
[Last Edit: 6/8/2012 11:12:24 AM by Gunhed57]
Did you consider the pucker factor? how will your wife react to someone beating the door down or climbing in through a window while doing dishes or in the middle of a shower? Maybe she is on the couch half asleep watching soaps and some dude is screaming and banging away at a failing door? She gets scared, nervous never having never dealt with a person who wants to do all kinds of crazy things to her person...traumatic thoughts start running through her head...OMG wheres the gun...what do I do....I need to call police...how do I escape....etc...because for the most part for everyone having their cherry popped for the first time in a armed confrontation there is always that moment of hesitation. (For those who are not trained) but even sometimes trained folks end up shitting themselves...
And the biggest worry is what if she is so freaked out she starts shooting at the door thinking the burglar is there and ends up hitting a neighbor or a kid in another apartment...or worse case dude comes through the door and she is so traumatized she misses every time...I'm thinking its dark, oh damn how did Steve say to turn on this light again...what I'm pointing out is when the pressure and adrenalin kicks in can you count on her to remember all of the training? Another point to consider is if the intruder is armed. If that is the case he could easily shoot through walls etc...I told my wife to take her shotgun lock herself in the bathroom and to yell at the thief I am armed don't come in this room I'm calling the police etc...if they shoot in to the room the bathtub is built like a tank and all she has to do is lay the shotgun on the tub pointed toward the door and pull the trigger without looking only if the door is breached otherwise lay low and keep yelling until she hears the police and the dispatcher on the phone saying it is them. I have seen guys get so freaking worked up they couldn't remember their own name and that was just from putting a dumb ass on the ground. Have you thought about a 410 with bird shot? She can hit anything in the doorway and even clear out a hall way without really looking as long the weapon is pointed in the direction...and they are very nice for the price. We know that it not a guarantee but there is a better chance of it not going through walls. I might have missed the point of the topic and someone may have brought this up already. I think whats important to remember is that like myself I have spent countless hours as a grunt behind a M-16 so its like another body part to me, but my wife on the other hand only ever uses it when she is at the range so I wouldn't count on her to know what to do when the SHTF with a weapon that has optics, lights, lasers, and buttons..etc...so in her case I choose something that is easy to remember from seeing it used in countless movies and easy for her to fire without the need for precision when pulling the trigger in a stressful situation in a dark room. My 2 cents anyway... |
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Posted: 6/8/2012 11:27:33 AM
Great Post! I couldn't have said it any better and I will make my wife read this as well!
OMG! You had training from the great one Mass Ayoob? I love that guy, I was showing my wife some DT video on You Tube and he is amazing. |
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Posted: 6/9/2012 10:19:04 PM
cant believe someone actually suggested a 410 with birdshot. op, dont do that.
security comes in layers. you cant sleep in a bank safe and watch tv in a paperbag. each door needs to be reinforced. security is going to cost you. a monitored alarm and security lighting as well as a spare cell phone are great ideas i want to reiterate. you can look at 3M glass laminate for your windows and should consider purchasing solid-core doors to replace all of your doors as well as metal frame inserts and longer hinge screws. you might lock that door but a solid kick and theyll be flooding in. also one lock per door is not enough. 2 minimum. i also like to suggest door wedges too. they are great secondary locks in a pinch. you can pick up most of the stuff at lowes or home depot and do the work yourself. each weapon you have should have a light mounted to it and quality ammo. you also need to train and rehearse. the first time youre running to your bedroom to grab a gun shouldnt be while some naked guy intent on eating your face off. train train train. ever try to dial 911 from a touch screen phone in a hurry? it sounds easy but its not. maybe consider getting a dog, they make great deterents, early warning and kinetic defense solutions. also consider more non traditional scenarios. what if they try to burn you out? do you have a fire extinguisher anywhere? what if its the cops or at least they are saying they are? what if they come though your bathroom wall? good luck! |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 4:30:52 PM
And the biggest worry is what if she is so freaked out she starts shooting at the door thinking the burglar is there and ends up hitting a neighbor or a kid in another apartment
EXCELLENT point, Gunhed! And this is why I've mapped the "probable fire" zones in my house. My next-door neighbors house covers most of the west side of my house, but it is slightly set back from the street, a little more than mine. Between that point and the across-the-street neighbor (who has little kids), there's about a 40 degree ""safety arc." The x-street neighbor's house blocks most anything directly across the street but after that there's about 270 degrees of 'safety arc' through which I can shoot. I have mapped my house so that there are safe areas to shoot FROM, for the above reasons. |
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