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Posted: 2/3/2016 5:33:48 PM EDT
Recently I came across a video by Pat McNamara regarding trigger control. He stated that you should put more finger in the trigger. Advice that he got from a friend that was a Bullseye shooter. I again read that in his book, Sentinel. This in opposition to the tip or splitting the pad on the tip of the trigger finger.



So this morning I went out to test out this new method that has always been against what I've been taught/read. I started with my Ruger MK II shooting CCI Standard 40gr LRN at 1.5" circles. On this first target their are groups from previous outings. As a key if you are not inclined:

TF= Tip of Finger/Split pad.

MF= More Finger, to the knuckle or close to it.

Groups were measured out to out and bullet diameter subtracted.

All 10 shot groups except for one of the 10 yard groups, it was 5 rounds which should be easily visible.

I shot all the TF groups first and would dry fire prior to going live at each distance. Then all the MF groups were shot and dry fired the same as previously.

MK II (Target on left is all from today) (Target on right has old groups on it)


3 yards history to show what I've done in the past and to show that slight push left I've always struggled with.


Gun: P226R SCT 9mm
Ammo: 115gr Federal FMJ

3 yards
At 3 yards the TF group is much tighter though the first DA shot on the MF hit the "X". The dropped shot on the TF group was the only shot I knew I dropped as soon as I pulled the trigger. My glasses were fogging and I lost concentration. But in general both methods still have a slight left push.


7 yards
The 7 yard groups the TF was more center in height and less left than the MF group with more "X" hits.


10 yards
At 10 yards the MF groups were both slightly tighter and had more "X" hits though each the TF and MF had the same number of "10" hits. Still left.


15 yards
At 15 yards, as per usual, I started to fall apart. Of 2 attempts each only 1 of each made 10 hits on target to measure the group. Neither truly better than the other. The MF group had more "10" hits but the TF group had "X" hits. Still left.


25 yards
At 25 yards I'd be better off throwing rocks while I ran with in 10 yards to actually start shooting... the MF groups obviously being pretty atrocious with 3 hits and 1 hit on 2 attempts while at least the TF groups had 7 and 4 respectively. On the first DA pull of MF I saw wood fly from my stand... granted at no time did I feel like I pulled or dumped a shot. All my sight pictures were roughly the same and I didn't feel that I shanked any shot immediately after breaking the sear.  


Reference: When I started, their were only 4 (9mm and a few .22lr) holes in this target, one in the neck, one right low and 2 low left. Regardless TF or MF, I push left and after 10 yards it becomes very exaggerated.


All in all I can't say having more finger on the trigger is my answer. If anything I shot the same to just slightly worse with More Finger on the trigger.

If you want to throw up your targets and discuss your results please feel free to do so

For myself, I think it isn't so much my trigger finger influencing my POA/POI as much as it is my grip. I feel my current position with an approximately split pad is good and probably needs no further adjustment. But where does the shift come from? Am I loosening my grip with my support hand? Is it the sights? Is it all flinch? During this I did flinch once in the dry fire and it completely lined up the POA/POI as shows on paper. Though at times my MK II would not chamber a round due to the cold slowing the mag spring and I would in essence be doing a "ball/dummy" drill and would be solid as a rock when the hammer fell...

So I am going to read up on the Ben Stoeger books I just got and really focus on my dry fire to improve this left shift.

ETA: Now a Handgun Marksmanship experiment thread

Having received advice in this thread I have decided to make this a thread documenting my own struggle of the left hits along with the poor accuracy past 10 yards.

Starting with wtturn's advice with grips here all my results from today. Trigger finger placement was my standard split pad that I've always done.

Again for those not inclined:

NG = Normal Grip
SG = Slack Grip (strong hand slacked with death grip on the support hand)
DG = Death Grip (with both hands)
SHO = Strong Hand Only
WHO = Weak Hand Only

One thing I really tried to focus on this time out was front sight focus...

Again started with the Ruger MKII at 3 yards, this was with CCI Standard 40gr LRN. 7 yards was 40gr Blazer LRN (which seemed to have more oomph behind them and threw me off on the first couple shots)
At 3 yards no major difference is noted in any grip variation. Though one might argue the second SG produced the most centered group.

At 7 yards the change in ammo through me off initially, I almost though my barrel was leading out... but I stuck with it... Here the left push was noticeable in the NG and DG. The SG showed and interesting center line. WHO is historically more accurate for me but today I was not shooting my best.



Now on the to Sig P226R SCT, ammo at 3 yards was 115gr BVAC reloads.

NG showed the typical left push. Interestingly the very 1st DA shot on the SG produced a perfect center hit. The following 9 shots were very centered yet a touch low, possible flinch or sight aliment. the DG was just a big hole but ended a mix between NG/SG.


At 7 and 15 yards the ammo switched to 115gr Federal Range and Training FMJ's

Nothing to really note here. I knew exactly when I shanked a shot. Like I said, not my best day of shooting. All more or less left except the SG, that was slightly more centered.



At 15 yards it all sucked.

Only the DG produced 10/10 hits on paper. Pure flinch... The SG though while some were low, were centered... same with WHO.


All interesting to say the least. This last test showed the effects my grip has on shanking shots. Not my best day of shooting but still proved the point..
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 6:43:42 PM EDT
[#1]
I played around with that a few years back, after watching some really good bullseye guys ripping the middle out.

Never could get the hang of it, I kept pushing everything left. My trigger finger was nearly cut off a long time ago, but it still works for me.  I shoot pretty well with the pad of my finger.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 8:10:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 12:01:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Any possibility you're "milking" the grip?



By that I mean tightening your strong hand grip subconsciously during the trigger press and introducing some lateral movement.




What I'd like you to try is a 100% weak hand death grip and a purposely relaxed strong hand.  I'm not saying limp wrist your strong hand, just purposely use less force than is typical and just allow your trigger finger to operate independently of the rest of your hand.  




I also want you to try some SHO and WHO only shooting.  You can learn so much about your grip and trigger control from one-handed shooting.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 12:57:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Any possibility you're "milking" the grip?

By that I mean tightening your strong hand grip subconsciously during the trigger press and introducing some lateral movement.


What I'd like you to try is a 100% weak hand death grip and a purposely relaxed strong hand.  I'm not saying limp wrist your strong hand, just purposely use less force than is typical and just allow your trigger finger to operate independently of the rest of your hand.  


I also want you to try some SHO and WHO only shooting.  You can learn so much about your grip and trigger control from one-handed shooting.
View Quote


I'll do that. Next time I go out I'll. Historically I shoot WHO better, I have hold it at an angle so I don't fight the recoil but always better than SHO.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 1:09:50 PM EDT
[#5]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'll do that. Next time I go out I'll. Historically I shoot WHO better, I have hold it at an angle so I don't fight the recoil but always better than SHO.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

Any possibility you're "milking" the grip?



By that I mean tightening your strong hand grip subconsciously during the trigger press and introducing some lateral movement.





What I'd like you to try is a 100% weak hand death grip and a purposely relaxed strong hand.  I'm not saying limp wrist your strong hand, just purposely use less force than is typical and just allow your trigger finger to operate independently of the rest of your hand.  





I also want you to try some SHO and WHO only shooting.  You can learn so much about your grip and trigger control from one-handed shooting.





I'll do that. Next time I go out I'll. Historically I shoot WHO better, I have hold it at an angle so I don't fight the recoil but always better than SHO.




 
I think there may be a lesson in that.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 10:54:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Dear Billy,

I applaud the effort and the systematic approach to it.  Excellent work.  You raise two simple points.  Grip.  Flinch.

The effort to try this position and that position and this method and that method are interesting, but are not necessarily BillyDoubleUU.

I will note my opinion that every book writer, bearded guru from the 'Stan, and range trainer don't necessarily know any more than you do.  They simply have a vehicle for repeatedly saying the same thing to make money.  The Way!

I will give you my free internet advice, worth every penny of it, I am damn sure.  

The key word to handgun control is GRIP.  Its hallmark is REPEATABILITY.  Can you do the same thing every time, or is every trigger pull a different situation?

I would like to do two things for you.  First, a few notes about your shooting.  Then, a simple grip suggestion for you.  The shooting notes, I will put here.  The suggestion, I will put in a separate post because it will be what I post every time the low left shooting thread comes up.

Billy:

1)  Your 3 and 7 yard .22LR shooting with the Ruger .22 semi auto is very nice.  You are in control of it.  Statistically, the group centers of your two methods are essentially identical.  I would simply adjust the rear sight a bit right to zero that gun.

2)  You flinch the hell out of the P226.  Where you put your finger matters not one bit.  Tensing your shooting hand.  Tensing the grip with your off hand.  Tensing your shoulders.  Actually pushing forward with the web between your thumb and trigger finger.  All make the rounds go low and left.

Your three yard groups are low to the approximate extent that the bore of the SIG is below the sight line of the SIG.  After that it is Katy Bar the Door.  Proportionally low and left.  Totally the shooter

Two bits of SIG advice.  The bore line is so high above your hand, it makes recoil more obvious with rocking.  It bothers you.  Eventually, you will learn to keep your shots level or just above the sight line as most SIGs are sighted for.  With that progress, zero the rear sight for your personal style.  

Start with bench resting on a padded surface with the SIG at say 15 yards until you can center a group.  Then worry about offhand standing.  You are simply isolating variables that way.  Defeat them one at a time.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 11:34:04 AM EDT
[#7]
The key to handgun control is GRIP.  The hallmark of successful shooting is a grip that is REPEATABLE.  Can the shooter do the same thing every time?  Or is each shot or group or session a new situation with a new thought from a new book and a new trainer and a new guy with a beard just back from the 'Stan?  All of which just serves to confuse the average shooter trying to learn.

Follows is my thoughts on how to grip a handgun so that it can be done the same way every time.  A repeatable grip.  It does not apply to the 1911 style handgun where the shooter must or thinks he must hold the safety down or else recoil will cause his thumb to knock the safety up.  

This advice does apply to most striker fired and DA/SA semi auto handguns and DA revolvers.

A REPEATABLE GRIP:

1)  Open your shooting hand thumb and trigger finger.

2)  Put the handgun into the web as high up on the back strap as the design allows.

3)  Close your three extra fingers around the grip.

4)  Lock your thumb down along the tip of your middle finger stacking little, ring, middle, and thumb in that order.  

4a)  Hold the gun with the firmness that you would shake hands with an athletic woman you respected but did not wish to hurt.  Firmly, but not crushed.  Firmly, not loosely.  Firmly, as you would hold a hammer or other tool, but not so tightly as holding it tires your hand.

5)  Put your trigger finger in a safe extended place along the side or if you intend to shoot right now, into the trigger guard.  Where in a moment.

6)  If you intend to shoot with two hands, take your shooting hand and place it into your off hand so that the forward joints of your shooting hand fit into the grooves of your off hand with your off hand trigger finger up against the bottom of the trigger guard.

7)  Your off hand thumb lays atop your shooting hand thumb where ever your hand size puts it.

8)  Extend and lock out your elbows and wrists forming an isosceles triangle.

9)  Good.  You have either gripped the gun in one hand or formed a two handed isosceles triangle position.  "Where in a moment" just above was the trigger finger question.

10)  As if your eyes were closed, put your trigger finger into the trigger guard and place your finger against the face of the trigger.  

10a)  Where ever you just put it right now, or in 5) above finding your other hand, is YOUR repeatable trigger finger position.

10b)  This is where YOUR finger NATURALLY lays when using that firearm.  It is the only place you will ever put it when you are forgetful, confused, rushed, tired, scared, whalloped up side the head, bleeding, or laying on the ground.  

10c)  This position is where your hand size and shape fits that firearm.  It will be different for different guns.  But it will be repeatable for each gun in its own style and size.

11)  To shoot, pull the trigger to the rear as directly as you can manage.  Pull the trigger in a smooth fashion as slow or fast as necessary for your shooting problem at hand.

11a)  But do try to isolate your trigger finger from your other nine fingers and two hands and arms and shoulders.  If the only thing moving is your trigger finger curling back, you will make a good shot where the sights are lined up.  Everything else that you start moving is called flinching.

11b)  Note that the above works just as well picking up from a bench, drawing from a holster, or other wise accessing your handgun.  Somehow you have to get a grip on it.  This is a REPEATABLE GRIP.

12)  Once you have decent groups, adjust the rear sight for windage.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 12:13:09 PM EDT
[#8]
At the end of the day the only thing that matters is you can consistently place rounds in the same place. Everyone is different. Grip, finger control, cant of the gun in hand, sight picture, etc... No one else but you can decide it is comfortable or not. When you have several thousand rounds under your belt then you will find what is or is not comfortable.
As a generalization..of fundamental firearms operation...sure, but not a given. If you can only hit the target by holding the gun like a hood rat then so be it. Don't get caught up too much with other people's.. You must do it this way.. Ideals.
Sometimes getting too technical screws people up more than just natural comfortable shooting.
Nothing wrong with the OP's observation, but.. To each his own.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 12:28:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

  I think there may be a lesson in that.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any possibility you're "milking" the grip?

By that I mean tightening your strong hand grip subconsciously during the trigger press and introducing some lateral movement.


What I'd like you to try is a 100% weak hand death grip and a purposely relaxed strong hand.  I'm not saying limp wrist your strong hand, just purposely use less force than is typical and just allow your trigger finger to operate independently of the rest of your hand.  


I also want you to try some SHO and WHO only shooting.  You can learn so much about your grip and trigger control from one-handed shooting.


I'll do that. Next time I go out I'll. Historically I shoot WHO better, I have hold it at an angle so I don't fight the recoil but always better than SHO.

  I think there may be a lesson in that.


I've dealt with this exact problem over the years.  Diagnosed and erased in EAG's class.  But if I get out of practice, I devolve back to it.  Same symptoms.  Low left.  Worse at range.  Excellent weak hand only accuracy.  By the end of two days I could shoot 25 yard groups like Billy's 10 yard groups.  I devolve when I try to speed up.  If I don't focus on keeping the trigger finger independent from the rest of the hand it just all falls apart.

Very hard to diagnose without someone observing.  I want to get one of those laserlyte or laser ammo systems and Glock resetting triggers to supplement live fire practice as it does show up using a laser.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 9:59:03 AM EDT
[#10]
exact opposite from what I was trained to do. interesting to say the least. next range trip
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 10:14:20 AM EDT
[#11]
I shot 600 rounds through my 19 and 17 yesterday.  While I've practiced using only the tip of my finger, I quit thinking about where my finger was and just concentrated on pressing the trigger and focusing on the front sight.

I tend to agree with Pat and Brian Enos.  "It doesn't matter how you pull the trigger as long as you keep the gun still."  I think most "this is how you pull the trigger" really only matters when trying to give someone who isn't able to do that consistently a tool to help them do it.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 7:45:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Updated the title and OP. Did some grip experiments as brought up by wtturn.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 10:15:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The key to handgun control is GRIP.  The hallmark of successful shooting is a grip that is REPEATABLE.  Can the shooter do the same thing every time?  Or is each shot or group or session a new situation with a new thought from a new book and a new trainer and a new guy with a beard just back from the 'Stan?  All of which just serves to confuse the average shooter trying to learn.

Follows is my thoughts on how to grip a handgun so that it can be done the same way every time.  A repeatable grip.  It does not apply to the 1911 style handgun where the shooter must or thinks he must hold the safety down or else recoil will cause his thumb to knock the safety up.  

This advice does apply to most striker fired and DA/SA semi auto handguns and DA revolvers.

A REPEATABLE GRIP:

1)  Open your shooting hand thumb and trigger finger.

2)  Put the handgun into the web as high up on the back strap as the design allows.

3)  Close your three extra fingers around the grip.

4)  Lock your thumb down along the tip of your middle finger stacking little, ring, middle, and thumb in that order.  
Keep thumb as high as possible along the frame to aid in recoil management.  Basic physics= closer resisting force is to the fulcrum/lever point, the more effective it will be.

4a)  Hold the gun with the firmness that you would shake hands with an athletic woman you respected but did not wish to hurt.  Firmly, but not crushed.  Firmly, not loosely.  Firmly, as you would hold a hammer or other tool, but not so tightly as holding it tires your hand.

5)  Put your trigger finger in a safe extended place along the side or if you intend to shoot right now, into the trigger guard.  Where in a moment.

6)  If you intend to shoot with two hands, take your shooting hand and place it into your off hand so that the forward joints of your shooting hand fit into the grooves of your off hand with your off hand trigger finger up against the bottom of the trigger guard.
Fill the gap on the side of the frame with the meaty portion of your support hand.  Wrap fingers around the front over dominant hand fingers with slightly more pressure.  Keep fingers as high as possible.


7)  Your off hand thumb lays atop your shooting hand thumb where ever your hand size puts it.
INCORRECT.  Dominant side thumb rides ON TOP of support hand thumb along the side of the frame.  Each thumb should have tension pushing forward as if you are pushing a thumbtack into a wall. There should be no gap between the frame of the pistol and your hands.

8)  Extend and lock out your elbows and wrists forming an isosceles triangle.
Do not go to complete lock forward as this requires more energy and causes fatigue. Do try to slightly push your forearms together as if you were holding something between them.  This creates a "vise" and increases the surface area pressure from your grip on the frame.

9)  Good.  You have either gripped the gun in one hand or formed a two handed isosceles triangle position.  "Where in a moment" just above was the trigger finger question.

10)  As if your eyes were closed, put your trigger finger into the trigger guard and place your finger against the face of the trigger.  

10a)  Where ever you just put it right now, or in 5) above finding your other hand, is YOUR repeatable trigger finger position.

10b)  This is where YOUR finger NATURALLY lays when using that firearm.  It is the only place you will ever put it when you are forgetful, confused, rushed, tired, scared, whalloped up side the head, bleeding, or laying on the ground.  
INCORRECT.  MOst people when placed under sudden and extreme stress get much more finger on the trigger than on a calm static range.

10c)  This position is where your hand size and shape fits that firearm.  It will be different for different guns.  But it will be repeatable for each gun in its own style and size.

11)  To shoot, pull the trigger to the rear as directly as you can manage.  Pull the trigger in a smooth fashion as slow or fast as necessary for your shooting problem at hand.

11a)  But do try to isolate your trigger finger from your other nine fingers and two hands and arms and shoulders.  If the only thing moving is your trigger finger curling back, you will make a good shot where the sights are lined up.  Everything else that you start moving is called flinching.

11b)  Note that the above works just as well picking up from a bench, drawing from a holster, or other wise accessing your handgun.  Somehow you have to get a grip on it.  This is a REPEATABLE GRIP.

12)  Once you have decent groups, adjust the rear sight for windage.
View Quote



No. see responses in RED

Repeatability is all about sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control. I can change and adjust my grip each time, even holding the firearm upside down and still get the same, repeatable result as every other grip.  The firearm is a machine.  If you align the sights properly, in the same place, and press the trigger the same then the firearm will have the same result each time.  Grip has very little to do with repeatability and more with recoil management.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 10:32:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Dear Billy,

I applaud the effort and the systematic approach to it.  Excellent work.  You raise two simple points.  Grip.  Flinch.

The effort to try this position and that position and this method and that method are interesting, but are not necessarily BillyDoubleUU.

I will note my opinion that every book writer, bearded guru from the 'Stan, and range trainer don't necessarily know any more than you do.  They simply have a vehicle for repeatedly saying the same thing to make money.  The Way!

I will give you my free internet advice, worth every penny of it, I am damn sure.  

The key word to handgun control is GRIP.  Its hallmark is REPEATABILITY.  Can you do the same thing every time, or is every trigger pull a different situation?

I would like to do two things for you.  First, a few notes about your shooting.  Then, a simple grip suggestion for you.  The shooting notes, I will put here.  The suggestion, I will put in a separate post because it will be what I post every time the low left shooting thread comes up.

Billy:

1)  Your 3 and 7 yard .22LR shooting with the Ruger .22 semi auto is very nice.  You are in control of it.  Statistically, the group centers of your two methods are essentially identical.  I would simply adjust the rear sight a bit right to zero that gun.

2)  You flinch the hell out of the P226.  Where you put your finger matters not one bit.  Tensing your shooting hand.  Tensing the grip with your off hand.  Tensing your shoulders.  Actually pushing forward with the web between your thumb and trigger finger.  All make the rounds go low and left.

Your three yard groups are low to the approximate extent that the bore of the SIG is below the sight line of the SIG.  After that it is Katy Bar the Door.  Proportionally low and left.  Totally the shooter

Two bits of SIG advice.  The bore line is so high above your hand, it makes recoil more obvious with rocking.  It bothers you.  Eventually, you will learn to keep your shots level or just above the sight line as most SIGs are sighted for.  With that progress, zero the rear sight for your personal style.  

Start with bench resting on a padded surface with the SIG at say 15 yards until you can center a group.  Then worry about offhand standing.  You are simply isolating variables that way.  Defeat them one at a time.
View Quote


Agreed!
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 11:37:08 PM EDT
[#15]
So after this last round does anyone have any other test I should run to help diagnose my issues?

What I have come to is that:

1.) My trigger finger placement is good where it is.

2.) My grip is a major source of my lack of accuracy. I believe that not only am I tensing my strong hand while pulling the trigger I am also slightly releasing tension on my support hand as the shot breaks.

3.) I have a gnarly flinch that at distance in combination with my grip issues is killing my accuracy.

My plan to correct these:

1.) Continue to use the same trigger finger placement that I've used for all my years of shooting.

2.) Increase my overall grip strength and work on keeping both hands tensed through the entire shot/follow through.

3.) Dry fire like a boss and stop flinching...

4.) Truly learn to focus on my front sight.
Link Posted: 2/12/2016 2:10:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Dot Drill would be good medicine for you.
Link Posted: 2/12/2016 2:42:37 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
Dot Drill would be good medicine for you.
View Quote


Dot drill? Or Dot Torture?
Link Posted: 2/12/2016 11:42:38 PM EDT
[#18]

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Quoted:
Dot drill? Or Dot Torture?
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Quoted:



Quoted:

Dot Drill would be good medicine for you.




Dot drill? Or Dot Torture?




 
The Stoeger variant.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 12:08:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

  The Stoeger variant.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dot Drill would be good medicine for you.


Dot drill? Or Dot Torture?

  The Stoeger variant.


Hey look at that, your avatar is back

Link Posted: 2/13/2016 12:20:37 AM EDT
[#20]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hey look at that, your avatar is back



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

Dot Drill would be good medicine for you.




Dot drill? Or Dot Torture?


  The Stoeger variant.





Hey look at that, your avatar is back







 
If you did that, then you're awesome.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 12:38:39 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

  If you did that, then you're awesome.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Hey look at that, your avatar is back


  If you did that, then you're awesome.


Appreciate your help, you're awesome
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 10:38:58 PM EDT
[#22]
I saw Pat's video when it was uploaded. I just now got to the range last night to try it though... unfortunately I was helping out with drills and barely got to try it. But....





It was night, and using the More Finger technique I cleared our plate rack (plus half of another one) in less time with a weapon light than I usually would in the daylight. It looks like it might work for me. I was also normally pushing quite a bit to the left as well.







I'll get to the range on a regular day soon and go a little more in depth.


 
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 11:13:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I saw Pat's video when it was uploaded. I just now got to the range last night to try it though... unfortunately I was helping out with drills and barely got to try it. But....

It was night, and using the More Finger technique I cleared our plate rack (plus half of another one) in less time with a weapon light than I usually would in the daylight. It looks like it might work for me. I was also normally pushing quite a bit to the left as well.


I'll get to the range on a regular day soon and go a little more in depth.
 
View Quote


Looking forward to your take on it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 10:17:15 PM EDT
[#24]
My variation on this for bullseye was that I would put my finger where it finished "flat" against the trigger. When the shot would break, I'd want my finger to be pushing directly towards the center of the gun. My testing was not as rigorous as yours, but I did find better results versus using an indiscriminate amount of "more" or "less" trigger finger, or using the pad only.
Link Posted: 12/31/2016 7:34:00 PM EDT
[#25]
70/30

70 percent grip on support hand 30%grip on trigger hand.

"everyone knows this" hahaha
Link Posted: 12/31/2016 8:30:46 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
70/30

70 percent grip on support hand 30%grip on trigger hand.

"everyone knows this" hahaha
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[youtube]http://youtu.be/tMzQIHN-LiI[/youtube]
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 10:57:28 PM EDT
[#27]
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So after this last round does anyone have any other test I should run to help diagnose my issues?

What I have come to is that:

1.) My trigger finger placement is good where it is.

2.) My grip is a major source of my lack of accuracy. I believe that not only am I tensing my strong hand while pulling the trigger I am also slightly releasing tension on my support hand as the shot breaks.

3.) I have a gnarly flinch that at distance in combination with my grip issues is killing my accuracy.


3.) Dry fire like a boss and stop flinching...
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Have you done any ball and dummy drills?
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 11:40:15 PM EDT
[#28]
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Have you done any ball and dummy drills?
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I actually have done fairly little pistol shooting or shooting at all the last few months.

I started up Www.AZRifleman.com and have spent most my free time writing.

Once I get past a few articles I plan on focusing heavily on pistol shooting and writing about the process.
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