New to shooting but have had several training classes, time at the range and dry fire practice.  Trying to work into competitive shooting.  I'm still not satisfied with my trigger pull.  It doesn't feel smooth and consistent.  Often I am still jerky…sometimes just a little, sometimes a lot.  I have been using a Glock 34 with smoothed out trigger but also now starting on an FNS-9.  About to get a LasserLyte 9mm laser round to get some feedback on the dry practice.  You guys that have mastered the trigger pull…if you have inside knowledge that you have become enlightened with after hundreds of thousands of pulls…can you throw me a bone?

 
By, 'competitive shooting' with a Glock pistol I assume you're not referring to postal targets; but a shooting activity more like IDPA, or IPSC.  A Glock is basically a less accurate, more difficult to shoot straight, CQB combat pistol; and, as far as this instructor is concerned you couldn't have picked a worse trigger system to learn on; however, all is not lost.  It's going to take you longer; and you'll have to concentrate more on working the proper muscular responses into your proprioceptive memory; but it can be done.  

Right now you're concentrating on the trigger pull.  Things will get easier when you switch your consciousness from the trigger pull to the actual spot on the target that you want to hit.  All great pistol shooting evolves from working off of, and more precisely controlling the pistol's backstrap. Some of the things you're going to have to learn how to do are (1)  to (instinctively) grasp your pistol correctly, (2) immediately find the, 'control point' on the backstrap, and (3) use it to, 'work the muzzle over the target' - EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU GRASP THE GUN.  

'Working the muzzle over the target' means that you're (1) going to have to learn how to carefully watch your front sight, AND (2) develop the correct proprioceptive reflexes in order to control recoil to the point where you consistently index and re:index the muzzle to the exact same target point, and (3) do this in the shortest possible time between shots.  (If you don't know how to fire repetitively and quickly with a pistol then, right now, I doubt you'll quite understand what I'm talking about.  No matter, as the pace of your pistol shooting picks up, and your accuracy improves you'll find out!)  

In spite of the popular internet gun forum myth I hope that if you're dry-firing that G-34 you're, also, using snap caps.  (I like A-Zoom.)  Assuming you understand which one of your eyes is your, 'master eye' there are more, and less difficult ways in which to dry-fire a pistol.  I've used them all; and, right now, I like the way George Harris is teaching it: http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill  

If you're going to do a, 'Wall Drll' properly then you're, also, going to have to understand the right way, and the wrong way to operate a pistol's trigger - Especially a crappy pistol trigger like most polymer frame pistols use.  You squeeze a rifle trigger; you touch a shotgun trigger; and you press or, when moving at speed, tap a pistol trigger.  Correct trigger movement on a Glock begins by taking up the front-end slack, and bringing the trigger back to its release or reset point.  When dry firing it'll be the Glock trigger's release point that you'll be working with.  

(Why?  Because, when dry-firing, you will have to move the trigger bar's, 'bird's head' all the way across the connector's cantilevered shelf.  This means that you'll be working with the Glock's trigger release rather than its trigger reset point.  A Glock's trigger's reset point is always faster and easier to work with!  So, once you master a Glock trigger's release point, firing a Glock from the reset position becomes (almost) ridiculously easy; and, yes, your rapid-fire shooting will significantly improve.)  

While you remain conscious of - and in control of - the pistol's backstrap orientation, you begin by:  (1) Grasping your pistol correctly, (2) focusing on the front sight, and (3) PRESSING the trigger straight back until the trigger bar drops and the striker lug lets go.  Don't squeeze!  Press, instead.  While you do this continue to very carefully watch your front sight; and remember that:  IT SHOULD NOT MOVE!  

When you  go to the range and begin working with live ammunition do your initial shooting from 5 to 7 1/2 yards.  As you begin to more tightly group your shots you can move farther and farther back from the targets.  Personally I shoot Glock pistols very differently from Colt Pythons, and Mark IV's.  The maximum range that I shoot my Glocks at is 16 to 18 yards - That's it!  Nowadays, I do a lot of this sort of shooting; and, once you're able to rapidly discharge an entire magazine into a 7 inch circle at 18 yards, then, you'll be good enough to play, 'gun games' with anybody!  

It comes in time.  Took me a good 6 or 7 months to learn; and my rate of ammo consumption was 1,000 to 1,500 fired rounds each month.  (Which is, about, what it takes to be genuinely decent with any pistol.)  How do you know when you're starting to make progress?  One of the first things you'll notice is that your focus, your consciousness, is switching from pulling the trigger to hitting the center of the target.  All great pistol shooting revolves around:  (1) A consistent proper grip. (Meaning a front-to-back frame squeeze, and precise control of the pistol's backstrap.)  (2) Carefully watching your front sight; and (3) a nice clean (almost subconscious) straight-back trigger PRESS.  

There!  Have I taken enough mercy on ya?  (Good luck!)  

The things that I've taken away from previous handgun training classes about trigger manipulation are:


























 

 

Good post!  All I'll add is that - unlike shooting, say, a double-action revolver - proper trigger technique on a Glock requires the shooter to slightly remove his finger from the trigger as it moves forward into reset.  If a Glock's trigger is closely ridden then it's possible to prevent reset and, consequently, delay the shot.  Moreover, when you're shooting fast with a Glock there isn't enough time to press the trigger.  You're going to have to learn how to tap it, instead.

This is good info.  The post above has a lot of derp it in but makes some good points also.  

You want to avoid thinking of it as a squeeze, that implies a certain hesitation or delicateness.  A smooth straight press is what you want where the front sight does not move and you maintain the same pressure the whole way through.  What part of your finger are you using?  The "standard" advice is use the fleshy pad.  Go read Brian Zins blog on trigger finger placement, he is the 14 time national pistol champion and uses the harder area of the finger right in front of the first joint.  Snap caps are nice, ignore the derp about Glocks needing them.     Have fun good luck.

Ravenu, you didn't just throw me a bone, you through me a T-Rex T-bone!  Thank you and the others also for the well thought out advices.  But, lets not dismiss class yet.  Questions.

- Please try to describe what one feels when one controls the pistol via the backstrap.

- Just to be crystal clear...can someone describes the difference between an incorrect pull/squeeze and a correct press?  To me a squeeze is akin to a steadily increasing application of pressure in a multi-directional motion where tension is steadily increased until greater resistance is met.  While a press is more of a uniform application of force in a singular direction until stopped by an obstruction.  Its like once you make the decision to press a button, you just point your finger and press with steady force, but to squeeze a ball, you try to grasp the object from more then one side and you start with minimal force at first and steadily increase the pressure until your judgment tells you no more pressure can be applied.  If this is true, then this tells me to not apply soft to increasing pressure on the trigger but rather make an abrupt press in one steady motion to full fallow through.

- Grip - I've been taught grip it damned hard as well as the push/pull grip.  I am working on the push pull grip currently where I push with my trigger palm and I pull with my support palm and avoid tightness in the fingers to the point where they loose their color...70% force from support hand and a more relaxed 30% force from the trigger hand.  Also, I'm working on extending the support hand so that the fingers point 45degrees down from the grip and it "locks" the wrist...I've been told this will help manage recoil.  OK?

- Ravenu..which part of the finger do you put on the trigger.  I hear everything from just the tip, the meaty section before the tip to the less meaty part just after the knuckle.  I've been told to leave a gap between the trigger figure and the gun frame enough to slip a pencil between...the would force me to move to at least the fleshy part of the finger or the tip to maintain this gap.

- Recoil management...I've seen guys that rapid fire and their muzzle looks like it barely moves and the spent shells just fly straight up.  What is the key there?

 

       




























 

PART ONE:  

 

Actually all of the questions you’ve asked are closely related, the one to the other.  I’ll try to separate and distinguish them for you.  

A pistol is correctly gripped (or, ‘squeezed’) in exactly the same way as you would hold and easily retain a loose pack of playing cards - By the long lateral edges, and from front-to-back.  

With reference to a handgun, an improper grip is referred to as a, ‘lemon squeeze’.  Why?  Because force is applied all around the grip rather than from front-to-back as it should be.  

Once you begin holding a pistol like this it becomes necessary for you to BOTH grip the pistol, AND control the muzzle at the same time.  The problem is one of applying grip pressure at the right places (points) along the pistol’s front and back straps.  

Applying pressure on the front strap is easy.  Simply press your curled fingers straight back into the frame.  This action has the consequence of pressing the pistol’s backstrap tightly into the web of your grasping (gun) hand; and, the moment you attempt to move or direct the muzzle you’ll be confronted by only two options:  You’ll either need to move your entire arm, or you’ll have to flex your wrist.  

YOU DO NOT WANT TO FLEX YOUR WRIST!  

You want to aim and fire from your elbow and shoulder, instead.  When you correctly control a pistol like this you will quickly discover that the tightest contact AND control point on a pistol is always located SOMEWHERE along the pistol’s backstrap.  This is usually the highest point on the backstrap; but, sometimes, the tightest contact between the web of your gun hand and the backstrap is closer to the bottom of the strap.  The way to determine this is to simply grasp a particular pistol, and feel for it.  

Me?  I constantly work a pistol’s muzzle by working between the pistol’s backstrap, and front sight.  Front-to-back, front-to-back, front-to-back.  Always in a straight line motion.  When I grab a pistol on a fast draw what my proprioceptive reflexes look for, first, is the backstrap’s, ‘control point’ to be pressing correctly into the web of my hand.  If I’ve got the proper sensation then I’m (probably) going to hit the target the moment the muzzle comes up and I fire.  

REMEMBER:  DON’T FLEX YOUR WRIST.  FLEX YOUR ELBOW, AND, TO A LESSER DEGREE, YOUR SHOULDER AS WELL.  

(Small caliber, light recoiling pistols don’t (perceptively) flex the shoulder - OK.  You, still, have to shoot with a locked wrist, though.)  

 

Noooo …… !  If you’re ever going to be genuinely competent with a gun you’ve got to lose - completely lose - that, ‘multi-directional mentality’.  Great pistol - and, especially, great rifle shooting - takes place on only two axes:  The vertical plane, and the horizontal plane.  Of these two axes, the vertical plane is the most important one to control.  (It’s NOT the purpose of this reply to get into this now; so, suffice it to say that this is normally done by coordinating your body movement with your breath.)  

What I want you to do, now, is to:  START THINKING VERTICAL!  If you try to control both axes at the same time you’re only going to confuse yourself and be a lousy shot with either a rifle or a pistol.  

A pistol trigger should always be pulled in exactly the same way that a pistol is held:  Straight back, straight back, straight back.  ‘Pull’, ‘squeeze’, ‘press’, and, ‘tap’ are all semantic terms.  Instructors, like me, use them to identify and differentiate FOR THE STUDENT, ‘How’ a pistol trigger should feel at the moment the sear breaks; and, thereby, help the student to avoid either pre, or post primer-ignition flinch.  

If I tell a student to, ‘press’ the pistol’s trigger what I’m actually doing is helping to relieve the student’s anxiety over firing the pistol.  ‘Pressing’ instead of, ‘squeezing’ a pistol trigger takes the student’s, ‘long wait’ out of making the pistol fire.  Correspondingly I would never tell a student who has developed a certain amount of skill, and has moved on to rapid firing a pistol to, ‘press’ the trigger.  

Skillful rapid fire pistol shooting requires you to, ‘tap’ a pistol’s trigger.  Why?  Because you won’t have the time to, ‘press’ anything!  You’ll be working off a, ‘bouncing muzzle’; and the moment that muzzle returns to its original position is the exact instant that you should fire again.  (I’ve done a lot of this; and I’m competent to fire much faster than most pistoleros are either able or used to.)  

Stop looking for, ‘greater resistance’ during your trigger pull.  When you get really good with a pistol you’ll be, ‘shooting straight through’ the entire trigger stroke; and your concentration on the front sight (or muzzle) will be intense - Intense!  

 

For all of the reasons stated above, lose this line of reasoning.

PART TWO:  

 

Not at all.  I’ll attempt to give you the correct mental concept, and proprioceptive motion here:  

While teaching a student to fire a double-action pistol, correctly, we always say, ‘Do NOT, ‘stage’ the trigger’.  ‘Staging’ the trigger means that a student is breaking down the trigger’s overall motion into its (perhaps academically valid) separate parts.  An erring student will draw the hammer halfway back, or he’ll squeeze the trigger only halfway, before taking a final sight picture; and, then, continue the trigger’s draw stroke until the sear breaks and the gun goes, ‘Bang!’  The problem is that you cannot shoot double-action well if you attempt to shoot it like this.  You’ll be slower, less accurate, and more prone to flinch - OK.  

This is one side of the equation.  The other side is that you do NOT want to abruptly press a pistol’s trigger in an attempt to overcome all of the above.  This is the other extreme; and might lead to pronounced pre:ignition flinching!  

Again:  Stop looking for, ‘greater resistance’ during your trigger pull.  When you get really good with a pistol you’ll be, ‘shooting straight through’ the entire trigger stroke; and your concentration on the front sight (or muzzle) will be intense - Intense!  

 

Noooo …… !  You know, I hear and read this all of the time; and, truly, it’s naïve amateurish reasoning.  You only have to grip a pistol hard enough to control the recoil.  (When was the last time a pistol instructor told you to, ‘squeeze the Hell’ out of a 22 LR pistol?)  Never, right!  

Perhaps the principal reason, ‘Why’ pistol instructors tell students to SQUEEZE a pistol - in any combination of grip force - is in order to encourage them to straighten the pistol out in their hands, AND reduce the tendency to flinch.  (Because the human brain is able to concentrate on only one physical action at a time.)  

A push-pull grip on a pistol is fine as long as you apply force to the pistol’s frame in a straight line, from front-to-back, and as also described above.  Don’t, ‘put the cart before the horse’.  Don’t allow yourself to become so distracted by what you think you should be doing that you lose sight of the real goal:  YOU WANT TO CONTROL THE MUZZLE AND MAINTAIN YOUR FRONT SIGHT PICTURE.  

Yes, you’re working with your support hand correctly.  So, enough said already.  (Thumbs forward on a semiautomatic; and thumbs down on a revolver.)  In my opinion, D.R. Middlebrooks is one of the very best pistoleros alive on the face of the Earth, today.  I’d suggest that you go onto Google, and research Middlebrooks’, ‘Reverse Chapman Stance’.  In recent years I, myself, have completely switched over to it.  (If nothing else the, ‘Reverse Chapman’ greatly reduces the tendency for a right-handed pistol shooter to hit low and left.)  

 

IT DEPENDS ON THE PISTOL.  

Generally speaking, (and I do mean, ‘generally speaking’ because pistol shapes and sizes vary greatly) I tend to shoot semiautomatics with the middle to tip of my trigger finger; and I tend to shoot double-action revolvers by wrapping my trigger finger around the trigger’s face all the way back to my distal joint.  

I have no particular objection to you, ‘leaving a gap’ between your trigger finger’s distal joint and the side of a pistol’s frame.  As I said, this depends on:  (1) the size of your hand and the length of your fingers; and (2) the particular pistol that you’re using.  What you really need to do, of course, is to more or less, ‘disarticulate’ your trigger finger from the rest of your hand.  (Otherwise you’ll be moving the entire pistol every time you pull the trigger!)  

 

It’s true!  An experienced and well-disciplined pistol shooter is going to fire his piece with a lot less muzzle jump and movement than another person with less experience and practice.  I’ve long been able to stand off to one side, watch someone shoot; and after only a dozen shots, or so, I’m able to accurately assess the pistol shooting skill level of the person I’m watching.  

Even the body movement is different.  A decent pistol shooter will tend to bend from his waist while a less experienced shooter will tend to thrust his head forward.  A good pistol shooter, also, has better, more consistent, arm movement too.  

Your questions are good ones; and certainly worthy of adequate replies.  Hope this helps you out.  I know you succeeded in wracking my brain!  

Wow!  I even got a thank you.  (Don't spoil me!)

Thank you.  As I did with the first one, I will print and highlight the key points and eventually summarize for dry practice and carry in my range bag.

I think I'm gonna need to take all this advice down as well (XD owner ), and I could use some definite improvement on how to run the trigger more efficiently.

Sub'd

And TYVM Raven!

Nothing wrong with a glock trigger, like all things it takes time and effort to master. Ball and dummy drills and lots and lots of dry fire are going to be the best way to master this, even if it's just 50 dry fires a day that's still very good compared to most folks.

Lesson's noted:
- Find the 'control point' on your pistol's backstrap and use it to work the muzzle over the target.  This is usually the highest point on the backstrap.
- Focus on the front sight.
- Press the trigger straight back, don't squeeze...front sight should not move!
- Practice at 5-7.5 yards and move back as groups tighten until you can rapidly discharge a magazine into a 7" circle at 18yrds.
- Move consciousness from pressing the trigger to hitting the target center.
- Pistol is held front-to-back, front-to-back.  Apply pressure at the right places along the pistol's front and back straps.
- Don't flex the wrist, flex the elbows and to a lesser degree your shoulders.  Aim and fire from elbows and shoulders, not wrists.
- Work the pistol's muzzle between the backstrap and front sight..front-to-back, front-to-back...a straight line motion.
- Focus on controlling the pistol on a vertical plane.
- Press (not squeeze) the trigger straight back the same way as the pistol is held.
- STOP LOOKING FOR GREATER RESISTANCE DURING THE TRIGGER PULL!!!!
- Push-pull grip is fine as long as force is applied to the pistol's frame in a straight line, FRONT-TO-BACK!
- Don't get distracted from the REAL GOAL:  You want to control the muzzle and maintain your front sight picture.
- And 1 more time for the best phrase for me:  STOP LOOKING FOR GREATER RESISTANCE DURING THE TRIGGER PULL!!!!

Ravenu, there is a brief description of how to practice live fire at the range.  If you have any more specific range drills a person should use and progress with to develop the right trigger press with accuracy (not moving the front sight, not flinching) so that one can later move into speed drills, holster work, speed mag changes, clearing malfunctions quickly...can you share?  I already have a 100 shot range workout program that goes through a whole slue of situations as I just mentioned with some of them timed, But I'm thinking back up and work on improving my trigger press and accuracy and then work in those speed and handling drills.  Thing is I'm itching to do come local competitions (3gun and other) so I'm trying to develop proficiency across the board.  Currently for dry practice, I'm using a 9mm bullet laser which taps on when I pull the trigger to get some feedback.  Thanks again.

Also, can you please provide some advice on proper breathing during shooting?  While working on these techniques, always try to time the shot after exhale?  And what's a person do during rapid fire?  I'm going through training classes now where there are some rapid fire drills.

 FatMan, I got ‘a tell you:  You’ve got a brain in your head!  

I’ve been doing this for more than 50 years; and your synopsis of the recommendations I’ve made are EXACTLY the sort of skill and information I’d expect to find in someone whom I considered to be a thoroughly seasoned (or professional) pistolero.  I’m quite impressed with the learning curve you demonstrate!  

You ARE at the point where you need only to:  practice, practice, practice in order to become highly skilled.  (You know what I’m telling you; don’t ya!)  You’ve reached the point where your monthly ammunition bills are going to be, at least, $300 dollars!  (This is just the price you’ve got to pay in order to be really good with a pistol.)  

But, you have managed to acquire the correct mental attitude and technical information; so be glad!  Pulling a trigger without genuinely knowing what you’re supposed to be doing, and pulling a trigger after you understand the interrelated factors involved in savvy pistol shooting are two entirely different states-of-mind.  If you understand what I’ve just passed along to you, (and I think that you do)  then you’re presently at the same point that I was once at many years ago when one of the finest pistoleros I’ve ever known turned to me after a long day at the range and asked, ‘Are we, still, going to be friends?’  

I spent three years training with him; and he is the gunman who taught me how to use a pistol well.  His question was unexpected; and, naturally, I was incredulous.  I replied, ‘What are you talking about?’  His answer has stayed with me all my life.  He said, ‘I’ve been watching you shoot all afternoon.’  ‘In my best day I couldn’t do what I’ve watched you do over and over again.’  ‘You don’t need me, anymore; so I’m wondering if we’re still going to be friends?’  

He left me dumbfounded!  I’d been so busy, drawing, firing, and watching my front sight that I wasn’t consciously aware of what was going on until after my mentor pointed it out to me.  I’m NOT saying that you’re presently at that same point, too; but I am saying that it’s clear to me you’re, now, ready to begin, ' the journey'.  To quote Einstein, ‘All knowledge (i.e., ‘talent’) begins with an accurate definition of terms.'  You are presently in possession of that, ‘accurate definition of terms’.  

So, I guess I might as well, ‘put the icing on the cake’.  I’ve practiced live fire exercises about every way there is to practice them.  My preference?  I like to use an, ‘accordion technique’.  I start in close, and move out as I, 'come on'.  The distances are typically:  5 yards, 7 1/2 yards, 10 yards, 12 yards, 15 yards, and 18 yards.  First I start in close, move out as I progress, and then I'll shoot my way back in to the original 5 yard line.  

At, and inside of 5 yards there should be no good reason for a competent pistolero to actually need to use his sights.  As such close range I shoot a pistol in exactly the same way that Jim Cirillo used to recommend.  I MERELY POINT IT, AND LET MY PROPRIOCEPTIVE REFLEXES TAKE OVER.  This typically requires three 50 round boxes of cartridges; and, trust me, you WILL, ‘come on’.  Before I retired I used to do this two or three times each week.  So yes, one way or another, you need to keep two cases of ammunition on hand, and things begin to get expensive!  

A caveat:  Don’t push yourself while you’re learning how to draw fast.  The most important things are to (1) keep your trigger finger, ‘arrow straight’ until after the muzzle passes the low-ready position, and (2) remember to draw SMOOTHLY instead of quickly - OK.  

I could, probably, write a book on target shooting and combat breathing.  All I’m going to tell you, here, is that it’s easier to be more accurate when you fire, ‘on the half breath’ and while you’re exhaling.  A good pistolero, though, has to be able to fire accurately on BOTH an inhalation, and an exhalation.  However, when you’re starting out it’s, probably, best to take a full breath and start, ‘drizzling’ it out through your nose BEFORE you begin to empty the magazine.  (Don’t shoot with your mouth open!)  The right time to inhale is whenever you stop to, either, look at or acquire a target.  

By the way, you’ve mentioned using 100 rounds to practice with.  ‘Back in the day’ this would never have been a sufficient quantity of practice ammunition for me.

I've never fired a semi-automatic handgun before..but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night!    Five months ago, I didn't own a handgun other then the 5 shot Taurus revolver under the bed which I never shot.  Fast forward five months and the worm has definitely turned for me.  Over 30 hours of professional training the past four months including an all day 10 hour handgun fundaments deep dive and AR classes plus a drastic change in gear has pretty much put me "ALL-IN".  That's not including all the posts and Youtube videos reviewed.  Exposer to previous sports has shown me there are fundamentals and training which if learned and applied correctly will get you there quicker.  To try to find the way alone would only cause much frustration, bad habits and a long fruitless search.  Unfortunately, at my age, wasting time is not wise just starting a new sport.  One major problem is those who have developed the skill can not always communicate the nuances into terms understood by another (ever have someone try to teach you golf?!?).  You have communicated very well  the skills you have mastered…that is why I am hungrily feeding on your honey hole of knowledge.  It is only through the good graces of others like you that I will improve quickly.  I'm expecting my gearing up phase will settle down soon (that 1-6x scope last week did not help!) and as you say, ammunition and practice will be the focus.  Thanks for all the great info!  You are da man!

Glad I was able to help!  Walk in peace.