nose to charging handle??? what works for you?? - Page 1

Training » Competition Basics

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - nose to charging handle??? what works for you??

Posted: 12/2/2009 4:07:07 AM EDT

how do you shoot?

Posted: 12/2/2009 6:32:16 AM EDT

[#1]

Nose to handle. Consistent eye relief in all positions.

Posted: 12/2/2009 7:17:57 AM EDT

[#2]

My nose sits just off the charging handle - maybe 1/4"-1/2" away. It's most natural to me and allows an upright head position when sighting through my aimpoint.

Posted: 12/2/2009 7:45:29 AM EDT

[#3]

The hard part is remembering to NOT use that system when you switch to your M1 Garand.

Posted: 12/2/2009 10:19:21 AM EDT

[#4]

So i take it long eye relief from the rear sight is not needed for long range accuracy?

Posted: 12/2/2009 10:42:18 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Nose to handle. Consistent eye relief in all positions.

Same here.

Prib

Posted: 12/2/2009 6:37:46 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Nose to handle. Consistent eye relief in all positions.

+1 consistency is the key

Posted: 12/2/2009 6:44:27 PM EDT

[#7]

I am trying hard to get used to the NTCH with shoulders squared to tge target but it ain't easy with my big chest and stubby arms.n

Posted: 12/25/2009 6:19:50 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I am trying hard to get used to the NTCH with shoulders squared to tge target but it ain't easy with my big chest and stubby arms.n

I'm not sure NTCH would work if you shoot squared to the target, as in tactical matches. This technique is mainly for the service rifle shooter on the XTC matches, who shoots offhand with his body more "bladed" to the target.

Posted: 12/25/2009 6:50:10 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
So i take it long eye relief from the rear sight is not needed for long range accuracy?

I wonder about this too. I would think with irons ntch would not be optimal.

Posted: 1/2/2010 12:30:00 PM EDT

[#10]

It is all about consistency. Nose to charging handle is the easiest way on an AR. With A2 stocks I have seen guys tape the stock to find their place. It was easy to do with the thumb on rifles without a pistol grip but NTC is what works best with the AR. One other benifit is now you can fire without sights. If you develop a good wield, then you can shoot in the dark without the aid of sights. I'm talking close range stuff here. It's the same concept as the isosceles pistol firing position. I've never been in a high stress situation, but those that have tell me I will not be focusing on the front sight, so I plan ahead. An experts, don't jump my ass, just add your .02 to help.

Posted: 1/2/2010 12:36:11 PM EDT

[#11]

especially if your a lefty!

Quoted:

The hard part is remembering to NOT use that system when you switch to your M1 Garand.

Posted: 1/26/2010 11:04:22 PM EDT

[#12]

I guess I'm the exception. No matter where I put my cheek on the stock my issue M16, I get the same sight picture and I always hit what I aim at.

Do you guys believe in having a natural ability to shoot? If so, I definately have it for rifles. For pistols, as soon as I read "The Combat Grip" everything else feel into place.

Posted: 2/28/2010 11:09:38 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I guess I'm the exception. No matter where I put my cheek on the stock my issue M16, I get the same sight picture and I always hit what I aim at.

Do you guys believe in having a natural ability to shoot? If so, I definately have it for rifles. For pistols, as soon as I read "The Combat Grip" everything else feel into place.

have you tried that at 500-600 yards? you may have a difference at that range.

Posted: 2/28/2010 11:45:42 PM EDT

[#14]

No way I could ever shoot like this..................

Posted: 2/28/2010 11:51:32 PM EDT

[#15]

Dont have to worry about this. I own an eotech.

Posted: 3/1/2010 8:05:46 PM EDT

[#16]

see pic above you

Posted: 3/1/2010 11:58:00 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
No way I could ever shoot like this..................

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Steve_in_PA/Shooting/FRBastropTXMarch2007762.jpg

that dude is gonna break his nose

Posted: 3/19/2010 7:45:10 PM EDT

[#18]

This is how I shoot. JTischauser on YouTube

I like to ride the nose real close to the charging handle.

Posted: 3/20/2010 8:00:13 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I guess I'm the exception. No matter where I put my cheek on the stock my issue M16, I get the same sight picture and I always hit what I aim at.

Do you guys believe in having a natural ability to shoot? If so, I definately have it for rifles. For pistols, as soon as I read "The Combat Grip" everything else feel into place.

Stop shooting off the bench. Start shooitng multiple shots at multiple target under a time limit. Start changing magazines during a stage of fire.

Shooting good groups is only part of it. Putting the good group where it needs to be requires even more from you.

Go to an Appleseed - or just order some AQT targets from the Appleseed store and try those multiple target stages.

Posted: 5/7/2010 5:06:45 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So i take it long eye relief from the rear sight is not needed for long range accuracy?

I wonder about this too. I would think with irons ntch would not be optimal.

The closer your eye gets to the rear aperture, the larger it appears and the closer to true center you will get the front sight post to align. Consistency in eye relief (good cheek weld helps) is critical so that you have a repeatable sight alignment and sight picture.

Posted: 12/9/2010 7:03:22 PM EDT

[#21]

It seems that way....but your eye has a natural tendency to center up when looking through a circle. I use NTCH for service
rifle for precision. If I'm going for speed rather than X ring at 200 yds I back off a bit. Using a subgun with a dot sight I like
a bit more head up position, but that's for closer range. Keep in mind precision is relative and there's a difference between
shooting x rings at 200 yards and making a fast head shot at 50.

Posted: 12/9/2010 7:44:44 PM EDT

[#22]

My cousin was taught to shoot with this method in the Marine Corps. It was kinda funny when he shot my 7.62X39 AR and received more recoil to the nose than he was expecting.

Posted: 2/14/2011 9:16:23 PM EDT

[#23]

I stopped using NTCH a long time ago... It's a good technique to teach hundreds of raw recruits who have zero experience shooting... and your trying to get them to do the same thing consistently....

I have found it is not necessary and I can shot very well... No one teaches this when they were issuing the M-1 or M-14...

It just manifested over time with the M16 because the Charging handle happened to be a handy point of reference.

Posted: 2/15/2011 11:23:29 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I have found it is not necessary and I can shot very well... No one teaches this when they were issuing the M-1 or M-14...

It just manifested over time with the M16 because the Charging handle happened to be a handy point of reference.

The straight stock on an AR provides no easy point of reference, unlike the stock on an M1. That and putting your nose on the heel of an M1 or M14's receiver will leave you with a bloody nose.

Posted: 2/15/2011 11:27:09 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am trying hard to get used to the NTCH with shoulders squared to tge target but it ain't easy with my big chest and stubby arms.n

I'm not sure NTCH would work if you shoot squared to the target, as in tactical matches. This technique is mainly for the service rifle shooter on the XTC matches, who shoots offhand with his body more "bladed" to the target.

Yes it works squared to target, thats why you use a collapsible stock and run it in short.

Posted: 2/15/2011 10:31:28 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have found it is not necessary and I can shot very well... No one teaches this when they were issuing the M-1 or M-14...

It just manifested over time with the M16 because the Charging handle happened to be a handy point of reference.

The straight stock on an AR provides no easy point of reference, unlike the stock on an M1. That and putting your nose on the heel of an M1 or M14's receiver will leave you with a bloody nose.

And yet, some how.. I magically figured out how to locate my head onto my stock and shoot it without touching the CH with my nose....

Posted: 2/16/2011 11:29:01 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
And yet, some how.. I magically figured out how to locate my head onto my stock and shoot it without touching the CH with my nose....

I doubt you're as repeatable as you think you are - or you marked the stock with tape.

Posted: 2/16/2011 8:35:40 PM EDT

[#28]

Your right.. I suck.....

It's not really Jedi magic.....

Posted: 2/17/2011 8:35:16 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Your right.. I suck.....

It's not really Jedi magic.....

You have to use SOMETHING as a reference. On an M1, it's a comb or knuckle weld, but there's nothing on a standard A2 stock.

Posted: 6/15/2011 11:36:27 PM EDT

[#30]

I used to put my nose on the charging handle but found it more comfortable to back off a bit. I'm 6'5" and have the reach to do that but eventually I just backed off a bit and found where it was comfortable and put a piece of moleskin on the stock for reference. When I'm shooting something with a collapsible stock I find that on the 3rd position out my cheek rests right on the end of the stock...another good reference point. Just find what works for you and mark it with something. What works for me won't necessarily work for you and what works for others won't work for me.

Posted: 6/16/2011 2:00:37 PM EDT

[#31]

Why do folks get so pissy about how others shoot?

I don't do the NTCH and don't see it as an advantage. I use the small aperture and with the stock fully extended my nose is like 2"-3" (or sometimes more sometimes less) inches from the CH.

And all the 1st place finishes in iron sight divisions and all the open and enhanced guns I beat would suggest it works just fine....

Posted: 6/16/2011 6:12:37 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

And all the 1st place finishes in iron sight divisions and all the open and enhanced guns I beat would suggest it works just fine....

It all depends on your application.

Posted: 6/16/2011 8:22:04 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

And all the 1st place finishes in iron sight divisions and all the open and enhanced guns I beat would suggest it works just fine....

It all depends on your application.

Fast and accurate shooting from 5 feet out to 150+ yards?

Posted: 6/17/2011 12:50:46 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Fast and accurate shooting from 5 feet out to 150+ yards?

150 yards is closer than NRA "short range" (200).

Again, YMMV. You probably don't notice the affect on POI as your head moves since the "small" rear aperture on the M16 is huge, relatively speaking, so other issues have a bigger effect, but it is there. It also depends on your target size/design. If you're interested, the USAMU has some training videos.

Accurate shooting to 600+ (some shoot to 1000, but it gets harder to keep the .223 supersonic at that distance) yards with a service rifle requires very consistent head position and the REALLY small aperture. The AR-15 can be an amazingly accurate platform.

Posted: 6/17/2011 9:26:39 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Fast and accurate shooting from 5 feet out to 150+ yards?

150 yards is closer than NRA "short range" (200).

Again, YMMV. You probably don't notice the affect on POI as your head moves since the "small" rear aperture on the M16 is huge, relatively speaking, so other issues have a bigger effect, but it is there. It also depends on your target size/design. If you're interested, the USAMU has some training videos.

Accurate shooting to 600+ (some shoot to 1000, but it gets harder to keep the .223 supersonic at that distance) yards with a service rifle requires very consistent head position and the REALLY small aperture. The AR-15 can be an amazingly accurate platform.

Yeah I know...

I don't know why you are splitting hairs here. When I am faster then guys with optics I think I'll be ok. Like I said in my 1st post, folk get all huffy about the way people shoot

Posted: 6/17/2011 9:33:14 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

I don't know why you are splitting hairs here. When I am faster then guys with optics I think I'll be ok. Like I said in my 1st post, folk get all huffy about the way people shoot

Why do you?

Posted: 6/17/2011 9:47:28 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't know why you are splitting hairs here. When I am faster then guys with optics I think I'll be ok. Like I said in my 1st post, folk get all huffy about the way people shoot

Why do you?

I don't, I answered a question and said what works for me. Never said you had to do it. Read more.

Are you on the AMU? You win rifle competitions? What's your back ground?

I compete and win my division more often then not. I beat people using open guns in a regular basis. I shoot against a pro and have beat him on individual stages. And no, you don't have to aim like I do...

Posted: 6/17/2011 10:08:18 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

I don't, I answered a question and said what works for me. Never said you had to do it. Read more.

Are you on the AMU? You win rifle competitions? What's your back ground?

I'm not on the AMU. I just shoot against them on occasion at the Nationals and Benning. Amazing shots.

I compete and win my division more often then not. I beat people using open guns in a regular basis. I shoot against a pro and have beat him on individual stages. And no, you don't have to aim like I do...

My point was that you will have POI shifts due to not having a consistent head position. It's the reason people often have different zeros from standing to sitting to prone at the same distance. That information might be useful to new shooters reading this thread who AREN'T shooting only at spitting distance on huge targets. NTCH is taught for a reason.

Posted: 6/17/2011 10:21:01 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't, I answered a question and said what works for me. Never said you had to do it. Read more.

Are you on the AMU? You win rifle competitions? What's your back ground?

I'm not on the AMU. I just shoot against them on occasion at the Nationals and Benning. Amazing shots.

I compete and win my division more often then not. I beat people using open guns in a regular basis. I shoot against a pro and have beat him on individual stages. And no, you don't have to aim like I do...

My point was that you will have POI shifts due to not having a consistent head position. It's the reason people often have different zeros from standing to sitting to prone at the same distance. That information might be useful to new shooters reading this thread who AREN'T shooting only at spitting distance on huge targets. NTCH is taught for a reason.

That's great. You can 5-150 yards spitting distance but in a tactical match with 'off' shooting positions often with no-shoot targets infront of shoot targets leaving 3"s to hit... Yeah it's a piece of cake.... Much easier then hitting a bullseye

I never disagreed with have a consistent cheek weld have I?

Posted: 6/17/2011 10:29:22 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
That's great. You can 5-150 yards spitting distance but in a tactical match with 'off' shooting positions often with no-shoot targets infront of shoot targets leaving 3"s to hit... Yeah it's a piece of cake.... Much easier then hitting a bullseye

Run-in-gun is fun. It's just that it's still a very short distance.

I never disagreed with have a consistent cheek weld have I?

Actually, you did. You don't have a consistent head position and yet win matches in your chosen sport.

Never mind. Use what works for you.

Posted: 6/17/2011 10:41:18 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That's great. You can 5-150 yards spitting distance but in a tactical match with 'off' shooting positions often with no-shoot targets infront of shoot targets leaving 3"s to hit... Yeah it's a piece of cake.... Much easier then hitting a bullseye

Run-in-gun is fun. It's just that it's still a very short distance.

I never disagreed with have a consistent cheek weld have I?

Actually, you did. You don't have a consistent head position and yet win matches in your chosen sport.

Never mind. Use what works for you.

Their you go

And just because I don't face fuck my CH doesn't mean I don't have a consistent cheek weld, trust me, the bald patch in my beard would say other wise

Just because the army teaches it doesn't mean it's the best not only way either.

Posted: 6/17/2011 10:44:16 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Just because the army teaches it doesn't mean it's the best not only way either.

Like I said, with your rifle and at that distance, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. The sight error induced by the short sight radius of the carbine and the huge rear aperture will have more of an effect.

Posted: 6/17/2011 10:49:43 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Just because the army teaches it doesn't mean it's the best not only way either.

Like I said, with your rifle and at that distance, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. The sight error induced by the short sight radius of the carbine and the huge rear aperture will have more of an effect.

Are you under the impression I'm using the large aperture?

Posted: 6/17/2011 10:51:31 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Are you under the impression I'm using the large aperture?

The "small" aperture is huge.

Posted: 6/17/2011 11:03:16 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Are you under the impression I'm using the large aperture?

The "small" aperture is huge.

Lol, ok as opposed to the large battle aperture? Sorry I don't have an aftermarket tiny rear aperture on my rifle. Lol so you are arguing for the sake of arguing? So by putting your nose on the CH with any aperture you do know that they will all HUGE right lol. I'm done with this lol. So how do you do at those matches...

Posted: 6/17/2011 11:09:16 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Lol, ok as opposed to the large battle aperture? Sorry I don't have an aftermarket tiny rear aperture on my rifle. Lol so you are arguing for the sake of arguing? So by putting your nose on the CH with any aperture you do know that they will all HUGE right lol. I'm done with this lol.

Lookup "pinhole camera".

So how do you do at those matches...

Fine. I frequently win in my class.

Posted: 6/17/2011 11:33:12 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Lol, ok as opposed to the large battle aperture? Sorry I don't have an aftermarket tiny rear aperture on my rifle. Lol so you are arguing for the sake of arguing? So by putting your nose on the CH with any aperture you do know that they will all HUGE right lol. I'm done with this lol.

Lookup "pinhole camera".

So how do you do at those matches...

Fine. I frequently win in my class.

Like I said do what works for you and good shooting.

Posted: 6/17/2011 11:35:24 AM EDT

[#48]

I don't care how anyone shoots but NTCH doesn't work for me at all.

Posted: 7/29/2011 11:52:07 PM EDT

[#49]

I set my stock far enough back so that when I raise the rifle, my cheek (wield / weld?) lies where my eye relief needs to be for a proper sight picture. I will say this, I use the larger aperture and the HK style front sight. I know that the larger hole isn't the right one but I often have to wear my glasses (I'm far sighted but when my eyes get tired I have to wear my specs no matter what and I HATE shooting with them) and looking through the smaller hole is just plain fuzzy for me. If I were using the proper aperture and could see I'd move my stock in to get closer to the CH.

Posted: 1/25/2014 1:49:45 AM EDT

[#50]

Nose on -dont mash it

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - nose to charging handle??? what works for you??

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