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Posted: 9/19/2016 9:10:39 AM EDT
I wanted to give my impressions of an Appleseed to all of those who haven't attended one yet.  This is a Basic Rifle Marksmanship course of instruction.  In fact, it closely resembles what I was taught on the ranges of Quantico many moons ago.  So if you are looking for a classic rifle training program, this is it.  And yes, this is THAT Toccoa from "Band of Brothers".  In fact one of the instructors hiked "Currahee Hill" while he was there.    

The weather was almost hot to sprinkling rain the last day.  

The facilities were very good.  Nice ranges out to 300m.  And indoor flush toilets(!)

The instructors were all volunteers and very friendly.  Their organization, the "Revolutionary War Veterans Association" has a nation-wide network of instructors and other volunteers that provide marksmanship training around the country.

Equipment.  I used a basic AR-15, 2 x 30-rd mags, and steel-cased ammo.  I switched out my Vicker's Sling to use a GI sling that was encouraged for the COI.  I used my M-68 red dot sight instead of irons, which was allowed.  There was a mixture of weapons, from .22's, to  AR pattern rifles.  Shooting with a GI style sling, and  from a mat is encouraged.  There was a mixture of iron sights and different scopes.  No load bearing equipment is required.  There was a very diverse mixture of weapons and sights, so it was challenging for the instructors to keep up with all of it.      

The course of instruction itself was classic rifleman instruction, that you would have gotten in Basic Training in the Army, circa 1950's, and in the Marine Corps well into the 70's and 80's.  Before red dot sights were in common use.  It is iron sight-centric.  And is heavily weighted towards a classic M-1/M-1A/ M-16 type rifle, with GI sling.  This has it's good points, and bad.

You start with basic safety, handling, and range procedures.  Then you are introduced to the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship.  Shooting positions, sight alignment/sight picture, breathing, trigger squeeze, follow through/calling the shot.  You shoot in 3-5 rd groups to establish a pattern.  Once a pattern is there you are shown how to move that onto the point of aim.  It's a nice building block approach that gets people on paper at 25m, then gets them a 25m zero, and culminates in the "AQT" the classic Army Qualification Test.  This is a series of different sized targets that simulates shooting out to 500m.  

Interspersed between blocks of instruction are little talks on the Revolutionary War.  I found this part fascinating.  In fact you could attend one of these things just for the sake of these alone.  Very informative, not only from a historical perspective, but also to remind us of our past heritage.  And perhaps to examine our current one.  

Day 2 builds on the basics from Day 1.  You review everything you've learned to date.  You learn more about the Revolutionary War and the subject of Liberty.  You then proceed to shoot a string of AQT's, for those that want to continue and qualify as Rifleman.  You can also opt to go to another range and shoot longer distances to confirm your zero and learn your come-ups.  This is what I did and was very enjoyable.  In fact, after shooting paper and confirming our sights, we got to shoot some steel, which was a real hoot.  

Sustain:  The quality of volunteer instruction, for folks that would like classic rifle marksmanship training, as done by the military, circa 1950's.

Improve: Perhaps consider adding in additional material, such as RDS, and new slings, and new techniques, as leaned recently in the GWOT.

There is a disconnect, between what is being taught here, and what you will learn in a modern fighting rifle class.  As I said, this is both good and bad.  I like the fact that someone is teaching classic rifle marksmanship, which teaches you to shoot well with iron sights and slings, before you learn how to use the red dot sight and more modern techniques.   This is how I was brought up through the Marine Corps Marksmanship program.  Very old school.  Which I think still has a lot to offer.  It is a very solid foundation for any aspiring rifleman to learn the heritage of rifle marksmanship, both the physical skill sets, and your lineage going back to the Revolutionary War.  It could be a stand-alone program, if that's all you want to do.  

However, I would submit that once you have mastered these skills, you then need to learn how to apply them on the battlefield.  While I loved slinging up again (loop sling, and hasty sling) and it is very stable, I question whether you would be able to do this in a combat setting.  So if you are just target shooting, fine.  But if you are wanting to learn how to shoot to defend home and hearth, then you have to learn how to apply these marksmanship fundamentals in a more practical manner.  And when slung up, you are forced to change mags, operate bolt, etc, all with your right hand.  This may be fine for some situations but I would submit you need a better way to do these things.  Learning to operate your rifle with a modern sling, and reloading/manipulating controls with the left hand, and carrying all your kit on you (versus working off a mat) are a natural progression to learning how to actually fight. And finally, iron sights are good, but red dot sights are superior in most (combat) applications.  Being able to superimpose a red dot on target is simply easier and much faster than aligning iron sights.    

We went through this in the 80's/90's to the present day.  The Army (and to a lesser extent, MC)  adopted different T,T,P's concerning rifle marksmanship.  Instead of "Known Distance", long range target-style shooting, training was changed to unknown distance, shorter range, combat-style shooting.  Red dot optics were adopted.  "Slinging up" was no longer taught.  Weapons manipulation was vastly improved.  Now the purists on the shooting teams howled in protest (and again the MC still insisted on teaching the old ways much longer) but eventually it became acknowledged that more modern techniques were combat-tested and valid.

So, I would highly recommend anyone attend an Appleseed training class.  The fundamentals you will learn there are a very solid foundation.  And the history you will hear will inspire you to become a good rifleman.  This is an excellent start for those that have never been through classic military training.   But I would also submit that you continue your education to a good modern rifle training class, and perhaps even some SUT (Small Unit Tactics) for those so inclined.  This was an interesting counter-point to the Northern Red class I recently attended.  The classic training program still has it's value, but the newer techniques that are now available to us are a progression of these foundational skills.  I would liken it to those that follow WWII Combatives.  There are still many valid techniques there to learn, but also much has been learned since.  So it is an excellent idea to learn these classic skills, but also to consider the more modern techniques.  It is up to the individual to decide what applies to him, in his terrain and situation, and train accordingly.
Link Posted: 9/20/2016 7:28:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Thanks for the review.  I've been pondering starting up a program here too.

I've used a sling for shooting highpower rifle matches and it does help quiet a bit with accuracy and recovering between shots.  I think it could be useful in a battlefield situation where you are defending a perimeter or base against medium ranged attacks, 200+ yards.  You can get good accurate shots at ranges where the enemies AK-47 would be ineffective.  I haven't been to afghanistan, but I'd imagine it could be of use in certain situations there.  Unfortunately the Army principle seems to be accuracy by volume.
Link Posted: 10/1/2016 8:23:19 AM EDT
[#2]
I went into the US Army (Infantry/11B10) in 1975 and the army wasn't teaching sling use then.  Not once in the four years I was in did we ever get instruction on how to use a sling.  It was something we were issued and had to put on the rifles, but we didn't use them.

I became a pretty good shot with a rifle anyway.

When Appleseed and an RBC taught me how to use a sling I became even better.  That was about 10 years ago now.

I remember a instructor (RWVA) from out in West Texas who also did the carbine/run and gun competitions that Appleseed helped him a lot.  He put the "basics" to use to improve his rifle marksmanship in the competitions and it helped him improve.

There was a lot of back and forth early on in Appleseed/RWVA about expanding it past Basic Rifle Marksmanship, or even having an "Appleseed Advanced" type training program but it never really went anywhere.  The owner/leader saw it as a combination of distraction and resource drain and wanted to keep it basic rifle marksmanship training.

I would still recommend it to anyone wanting to learn to shoot their rifle better.  I've seen guys who competed in CMP matches come to an Appleseed and pick up things that helped them shoot better.  I've seen carbine course/run & gun guys come into an Appleseed and get so frustrated they packed up and left to go home (one guy at least twice as I was instructing at two different locations and saw him at both, before he went home - you don't forget someone that throws a fit on the range).

Don't expect to come out of an Appleseed and be an expert.  It's basic rifle marksmanship, the fundamentals.  They (Appleseed) used to refer to it as trying to drink from a fire hose.  There is so much information shared that you usually only pick up some of it.  Many people write that they've attended 2 or 3 before they really improved enough to get a rifleman's patch.  I know, when I was instructing, that only 12 to 15% of the attendees at an Appleseed would shoot well enough to get their patch in a weekend.

I keep trying to talk my youngest son and nephew into going to one but so far, no luck.
Link Posted: 10/5/2016 6:44:33 AM EDT
[#3]
That's a good review, Diz. I wish I knew you were going to be there. I would have signed on as an instructor.

I'll echo the sentiments here. Appleseed is a great way to learn basic rifle marksmanship and it offers a strong foundation for other training. If you haven't had any formal training, I suggest you start with Appleseed and progress to tactical shooting afterwards.
Link Posted: 10/5/2016 9:21:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Cool, that's not too far away to me, used to within 20min of Toccoa. Is there a sign up or entry fee? I think I might go to this one, might be able to even get a friend out who's been depressed for a while. Not a suicide threat, just going through a bad patch in his life due to the tragic loss of a loved one.
Link Posted: 10/9/2016 7:12:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Never mind I found their website and schedule.
Link Posted: 10/17/2016 8:39:13 AM EDT
[#6]
I had a good time here.  Was a little sore from spending all that time proned out on the hard pack, but it was good stuff.  Yeah I don't care who you are, you will benefit from going over the basics again.  In fact I would go as far to say that everyone should do this at least once a year, depending on you training schedule.  I had meant to attend an Appleseed for a long time, ever since moving to the Carolinas, and I'm glad I finally made it.  

I did pick up a few pointers myself.  I have been struggling with trigger pull lately as I re-vamp my shooting technique.  I was "dragging wood" as the old timers say, or having excessive contact with the stock with my trigger finger.  I have been working on this and been improving.  

I did struggle with the classic techniques a bit, i.e. slinging up, and right hand manip, but wanted to do it their way for their COI.  It's good to know this as a starting point, and then go from there.  Yes, I could see this applied in a static defensive position, where the enemy is several hundred meters out.  As long as you un-sling before the "FPF" (Final Protective Fire) or "mad minute"!

I came back to my home range and re-shot the course, using more modern techniques, i.e. a Vickers Sling, and left hand manip and actually did a little better.  I tripod on the deck, with both elbows and mag.  I just find this technique to work better for me.  It is practically as strong as being slung in, and certainly a lot quicker to get in and out of.  

These guys have an excellent COI here.  For people just starting out, after some kind of NRA safety course, this course would be an excellent foundation for rifleman skills.  Once you understand and can apply these fundamentals, you would be much better prepared for any modern "fighting" or "tactical" class.  For sustainment training, this COI will re-emphasize the fundamentals to kick start your annual training program.
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