 J-LineJon 
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Joined: Feb 2012  NH, USA
 Posts: 16 Feedback: 0% (0) |
Posted: 3/3/2012 10:12:59 AM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT This isn't something I want to test for myself, if it went wrong I could end up tearing up my hand. |
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Kali110505
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Team Member
Joined: Jan 2008 VA, USA
Posts: 2780 Feedback: 100% (543) Link To This Post |
Posted: 3/3/2012 11:19:16 AM
I have spoken to people who have done this in real life over seas. It was related to me that the weapon fired but the failed to cycle. I tried it with simunitions and it failed to cycle. That said a real firearm cycles a lot harder then a sim gun.
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Posted: 3/3/2012 6:18:17 PM
[Last Edit: 3/3/2012 6:19:10 PM by TDunn]
I have done it on a range live fire and there is no problem if done correctly. The gun will fire. The slide will not cycle.
The hazards to you in doing it are: 1) Make certain no part of your hand or body gets near or crosses the barrel for obvious reasons 2) Watch out for the front sight. If you don't have a grip and it moves slightly, it can cut you. Of course, the liability for both of the above fall to you if you attempt it. In real life situations, those are small concerns compared to being shot and it doesn't take much of a grip to cause the gun to fail to eject spent/load fresh rounds. |
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Posted: 3/4/2012 5:49:13 PM
Thanks guys, that's good to know for future reference.
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Posted: 3/5/2012 10:31:54 AM
It is possible to keep the gun from firing IF you're able to get the slide pushed out of battery. Hope I'm never in a situation where I have to try it though.
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Posted: 3/23/2012 6:21:41 PM
I don't know for sure, but my guess would be this:
It would depend on the type of firing mechanism, if it had an external hammer i think it would keep the hammer from dropping onto the firing pin. If it were an internal hammer (not sure the correct term) that may allow the firing pin to still strike the primer. Again, I'm just guessing here. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 9:20:47 AM
Yes, grabbing the slide firmly will stop the handgun from cycling after the first shot is fired. Let me preface this video by stating that this guy has done quite a few dangerous/unsafe things and put them on the web. His videos have been the topic of many discussions on this board, but, this video proves the theory. Go to 1 minute in to see the footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSTL04OsQqM&list=UULPOwny2pJUP1wG6banV8qg&index=20&feature=plcp |
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ALPHAGHOST
ARF.com Idiot
Team Member
Joined: Jul 2004 MS, USA
Posts: 35062 Feedback: 100% (658) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/18/2012 10:35:07 PM
Originally Posted By watertower:
It is possible to keep the gun from firing IF you're able to get the slide pushed out of battery. Hope I'm never in a situation where I have to try it though. generally, yes, if its pushed out of batter enough; that said, "enough" distance will vary from model to model, etc...wont work on revolvers (but stopping the cylender does prevent it) you are better staying away from the muzzle and controling |
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Posted: 4/19/2012 9:00:02 PM
you're going to get shot.
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darktide
Brain Doc
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Joined: Apr 2008 MI, USA
Posts: 1404 Feedback: 100% (13) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/20/2012 10:12:53 AM
[Last Edit: 4/20/2012 10:15:16 AM by darktide]
as mentioned above, You can easily stop a gun from cycling with your thumb... why would it be any different than holding a bg's slide? He'll get one shot off though... make sure you're out of the way with your super-ninja skills.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8sbb8eDjg |
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Posted: 4/23/2012 5:38:57 PM
This works better with recoil oporated pistols then simple blowback. On recoil pistols you have the advantage of a locked breech, on blowback you don't, and while I doubt the pistol will cycle I don't think you want to try holding the slide.
One thing, if you push the muzzle back on a 1911 so it isn't in battery, it won't fire. I image others work this way (it isn't good when recoil operated pistols fir out of battery). |
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Posted: 4/28/2012 11:08:48 PM
[Last Edit: 4/29/2012 12:44:08 PM by Kernman]
Originally Posted By LORD-eX-Bu:
you're going to get shot. That ^^^^^^^^^^^ The technique you are talking about is at best unsound. In a perfect world it would work. It's simple, push the slide out of battery and the gun won't fire. But the shooters first reaction will be to pull back and re engage. There are better systems of gun defense out there but they are mostly built around a base martial art. Systema has several gun disarm techniques. Google the Sonny Puzikas YouTube of his Montreal, Canada seminar. ( Sorry, I am having trouble attaching links) He does quite a bit of gun disarm work in the video. But, as you see in the video, none of it is something that you can pick up in a single quick lesson, you have to develop a little experience in the Systema style of movement. |
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Posted: 4/30/2012 8:36:42 AM
Originally Posted By Kernman:
Originally Posted By LORD-eX-Bu:
you're going to get shot. That ^^^^^^^^^^^ The technique you are talking about is at best unsound. In a perfect world it would work. It's simple, push the slide out of battery and the gun won't fire. But the shooters first reaction will be to pull back and re engage. There are better systems of gun defense out there but they are mostly built around a base martial art. Systema has several gun disarm techniques. Google the Sonny Puzikas YouTube of his Montreal, Canada seminar. ( Sorry, I am having trouble attaching links) He does quite a bit of gun disarm work in the video. But, as you see in the video, none of it is something that you can pick up in a single quick lesson, you have to develop a little experience in the Systema style of movement. I agree if you're going to just stand there and try to push the slide out of battery and hope that solves the problem. In a defensive situation pushing the slide out of battery is just one aspect of a gun take away/defense, at least in the various techniques I've worked with in Krav. Redirect, control, counter are three key points krav teaches. In a gun situation, as you redirect the muzzle you try to push the slide out of battery. Hopefully the redirect is all you need, but at the same time if you can get the slide out of battery even better as it reduces the chances of you or the person next to you getting getting shot. As the redirect happens you become extremely aggressive and start moving, typically closing the distance to the attacker to eliminate the chance of them recoiling or moving away from you and being able to shoot you. Pushing the slide out of battery should NOT be thought of as THE defense. The more I think about it, the less emphasis I'd put on getting the slide out of battery, getting off the line of the muzzle should be the primary component of a gun defense. However, back to the original point, most semi-autos will not fire if the slide is pushed far enough out of battery. |
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quijanos
TMBTITWIGRS
Team Member
Joined: May 2002  AFG
Posts: 10667 Feedback: 100% (89) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/30/2012 8:45:31 AM
Originally Posted By TDunn:
I have done it on a range live fire and there is no problem if done correctly. The gun will fire. The slide will not cycle. The hazards to you in doing it are: 1) Make certain no part of your hand or body gets near or crosses the barrel for obvious reasons 2) Watch out for the front sight. If you don't have a grip and it moves slightly, it can cut you. Of course, the liability for both of the above fall to you if you attempt it. In real life situations, those are small concerns compared to being shot and it doesn't take much of a grip to cause the gun to fail to eject spent/load fresh rounds. This. IMO your best bet in this kind of situation is to get the muzzle pointed safely away from you and hang on. The gun won't cycle if you hold the slide in battery whilst being discharged. Its not a hard thing to do and have practiced this (live fire) before many times. I would suggest a sharp pointy object inserted repeatedly vigorously and simultaneously into said perp with your free hand. YMMV |
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Posted: 4/30/2012 1:42:54 PM
Originally Posted By quijanos:
Originally Posted By TDunn:
I have done it on a range live fire and there is no problem if done correctly. The gun will fire. The slide will not cycle. The hazards to you in doing it are: 1) Make certain no part of your hand or body gets near or crosses the barrel for obvious reasons 2) Watch out for the front sight. If you don't have a grip and it moves slightly, it can cut you. Of course, the liability for both of the above fall to you if you attempt it. In real life situations, those are small concerns compared to being shot and it doesn't take much of a grip to cause the gun to fail to eject spent/load fresh rounds. This. IMO your best bet in this kind of situation is to get the muzzle pointed safely away from you and hang on. The gun won't cycle if you hold the slide in battery whilst being discharged. Its not a hard thing to do and have practiced this (live fire) before many times. I would suggest a sharp pointy object inserted repeatedly vigorously and simultaneously into said perp with your free hand. YMMV You might want to be careful, if is is a blowback weapon you could get hurt practicing it livefire. |
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Posted: 5/1/2012 12:01:27 AM
Originally Posted By watertower:
Originally Posted By Kernman:
Originally Posted By LORD-eX-Bu:
you're going to get shot. That ^^^^^^^^^^^ The technique you are talking about is at best unsound. In a perfect world it would work. It's simple, push the slide out of battery and the gun won't fire. But the shooters first reaction will be to pull back and re engage. There are better systems of gun defense out there but they are mostly built around a base martial art. Systema has several gun disarm techniques. Google the Sonny Puzikas YouTube of his Montreal, Canada seminar. ( Sorry, I am having trouble attaching links) He does quite a bit of gun disarm work in the video. But, as you see in the video, none of it is something that you can pick up in a single quick lesson, you have to develop a little experience in the Systema style of movement. I agree if you're going to just stand there and try to push the slide out of battery and hope that solves the problem. Yep, because by the time you think, " Wow, that worked." it will have quit working. You better be going someplace with it when you start the grab or,........................You're going to get shot. In a defensive situation pushing the slide out of battery is just one aspect of a gun take away/defense, at least in the various techniques I've worked with in Krav. Redirect, control, counter are three key points krav teaches. In a gun situation, as you redirect the muzzle you try to push the slide out of battery. Hopefully the redirect is all you need, but at the same time if you can get the slide out of battery even better as it reduces the chances of you or the person next to you getting getting shot. As the redirect happens you become extremely aggressive and start moving, typically closing the distance to the attacker to eliminate the chance of them recoiling or moving away from you and being able to shoot you. Pushing the slide out of battery should NOT be thought of as THE defense. The more I think about it, the less emphasis I'd put on getting the slide out of battery, getting off the line of the muzzle should be the primary component of a gun defense. However, back to the original point, most semi-autos will not fire if the slide is pushed far enough out of battery. |
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Posted: 5/7/2012 2:40:04 PM
Anyone properly trained with a firearm will blade his body, and not extend the firearm where you can grab it. When you reach for the firearm, they simply shoot you because it is out of reach and bullets go further than your reach. Any dumb ass who puts his firearm out in front where you can get at it deserves to have it taken from them.
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