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jimmyhots
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Posted: 12/16/2009 4:09:01 PM

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I'm thinking of starting to train in martial arts and am wondering what art I should choose. My main goals are self defense and, secondarily, fitness. Amongst all the great arts out there I've narrowed things down to Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu. I would like to try a striking art and so am leaning towards Muay Thai. However, in a real street fight things often go to the ground, so Jiu-Jitsu, or something like it (e.g. wrestling, Judo, etc.) is probably important to know as well.

Some schools offer MMA, which to my understanding is usually a combo of Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu, or something similar.

Anyone have suggestions as to what they think the best choice is?

JH
beltjones
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Posted: 12/16/2009 4:34:33 PM
Originally Posted By jimmyhots:
I'm thinking of starting to train in martial arts and am wondering what art I should choose. My main goals are self defense and, secondarily, fitness. Amongst all the great arts out there I've narrowed things down to Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu. I would like to try a striking art and so am leaning towards Muay Thai. However, in a real street fight things often go to the ground, so Jiu-Jitsu, or something like it (e.g. wrestling, Judo, etc.) is probably important to know as well.

Some schools offer MMA, which to my understanding is usually a combo of Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu, or something similar.

Anyone have suggestions as to what they think the best choice is?

JH


You can't go wrong with either, as long as the instructor is good. I will warn you that there are "MMA" schools popping up all over with dubious credentials. Very often it's a TKD school with an instructor who claims to have been "grappling all his life" or that the original TKD (or whatever) has grappling in it, hidden in the forms or something.

Look for reputable teachers who will proudly tell you who taught them. Anyone who claims their lineage is a secret shouldn't get any of your money.
h34dsh0t_n00b
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Posted: 12/18/2009 12:43:57 PM
Originally Posted By beltjones:
Originally Posted By jimmyhots:
I'm thinking of starting to train in martial arts and am wondering what art I should choose. My main goals are self defense and, secondarily, fitness. Amongst all the great arts out there I've narrowed things down to Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu. I would like to try a striking art and so am leaning towards Muay Thai. However, in a real street fight things often go to the ground, so Jiu-Jitsu, or something like it (e.g. wrestling, Judo, etc.) is probably important to know as well.

Some schools offer MMA, which to my understanding is usually a combo of Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu, or something similar.

Anyone have suggestions as to what they think the best choice is?

JH


You can't go wrong with either, as long as the instructor is good. I will warn you that there are "MMA" schools popping up all over with dubious credentials. Very often it's a TKD school with an instructor who claims to have been "grappling all his life" or that the original TKD (or whatever) has grappling in it, hidden in the forms or something.

Look for reputable teachers who will proudly tell you who taught them. Anyone who claims their lineage is a secret shouldn't get any of your money.


+1

both will fit those goals you have. I have heard both good and bad about MMA school. I guess some are really good but I hear a lot of them don't really care to help you learn. Just a bunch of dudes that wanna kick your newbie ass and show you how awesome they are.

Which ever one you choose I would recommend going in with competition in mind since both arts have sports versions and for me in Judo this has really accelerated my learning.
rike
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Posted: 12/18/2009 12:57:34 PM
Chimp for the win.

Seriously, if the fighter is not fully aware and skilled in eye gouging, biting, scrotal ripping, improvised weapons, and running away he will get his ass beat on the street.

I pick Jiu Jitsu with a dose of the above.
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extxdpscamaro
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Posted: 12/18/2009 1:34:02 PM
Originally Posted By beltjones:
Originally Posted By jimmyhots:
I'm thinking of starting to train in martial arts and am wondering what art I should choose. My main goals are self defense and, secondarily, fitness. Amongst all the great arts out there I've narrowed things down to Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu. I would like to try a striking art and so am leaning towards Muay Thai. However, in a real street fight things often go to the ground, so Jiu-Jitsu, or something like it (e.g. wrestling, Judo, etc.) is probably important to know as well.

Some schools offer MMA, which to my understanding is usually a combo of Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu, or something similar.

Anyone have suggestions as to what they think the best choice is?

JH


You can't go wrong with either, as long as the instructor is good. I will warn you that there are "MMA" schools popping up all over with dubious credentials. Very often it's a TKD school with an instructor who claims to have been "grappling all his life" or that the original TKD (or whatever) has grappling in it, hidden in the forms or something.

Look for reputable teachers who will proudly tell you who taught them. Anyone who claims their lineage is a secret shouldn't get any of your money.


BIG + 1

Since moving back I've wanted to get back into Jiu Jitsu but the nearest to me is San Antonio and that's over an hour from where I work.
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Posted: 12/23/2009 12:04:19 AM
If you want to take something that applies to street scenarios (real-life application), I would strongly suggest Krav Maga.

...there's just no comparison with the efficiency and direct contact you learn with Krav Maga in dealing with adversity, plus you learn effective moves quicker. I personally train for the life or death situation........not the fight scenario. I don't have time to try and fight somebody in the real world, anything can happen in a fight. And I'll just stop there...

So, I guess it's all in what you want to be able to accomplish when confronted on the street; there's some crazy bastards out there that don't stop.
"He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send ten of his to the morgue."
bricktopvinnie
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Posted: 12/26/2009 11:12:44 PM
Find a martial art that suits your personality i train as muay thai fighter and i compete in submission grappling tournaments and also in M.M.A. be wary of anyone who claims to have the "best system" of any one style. I work as a security guard and bartend for night clubs go figure and my muay thai and jiu-jitsu have both come in handy, remember you may have to strike first and then it may go to the ground its better to be the one on top so remember judo, catch wrestling and greco roman can help you as well. be the most well rounded individual you can when it comes to being a fighter cause to be honest if your fighting multiple assailants its best to remain standing. Krav Maga is a great martial art to know its very very well rounded and is easy to pick up from what Ive heard and researched.
RonLauinger
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Posted: 1/19/2010 12:22:14 PM
Make sure it's real world training. I've visited many gyms who 'claim' real world training, but it's nothing but
TKD or watered down BJJ. The gym, or instructor, should have training in adverse conditions, as well as
in different environments. Most gyms/instructors as well as many students don't want to train hard. They
want an easy work out and they don't want to get bruised If you are serious, avoid those places.

You should train in the:
Dark,
Rain,
Under duress
When exhausted
etc..

You should also train in cramped quarters. At LMI, here in the Cleveland area, we have a 4x8 foot
padded room we train in to simulate being attacked in a bathroom stall, stair case or between two
parked vehicles.

Your targets should be:
Groin ripping
Eye gouging
cheeck tearing
ear ripping
throat crushing
bitting
etc..

If you are grappling with someone, why not reach down and grap his jewels and YANK them off or
reach around and gouge his eyes out. Remember, he is trying to kill you. Your job is to stop him
by any means neccessary. THERE ARE NO RULES,,

When you are looking for somewhere to train, make sure the instructor is good. There are alot of
nice gyms out there with fancy stuff, but like mentioned above,, It's the instructor,, not the school

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darktide
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Posted: 1/20/2010 10:41:54 AM

Originally Posted By RonLauinger:

Your targets should be:
Groin ripping
Eye gouging
cheeck tearing
ear ripping
throat crushing
bitting
etc..

If you are grappling with someone, why not reach down and grap his jewels and YANK them off or
reach around and gouge his eyes out. Remember, he is trying to kill you. Your job is to stop him
by any means neccessary. THERE ARE NO RULES

Ever try to 'grab' someone's groin wearing even moderately jeans? Not going to happen, bud. Better to just Beat the hell out of them then try to "yank" them...

Eye gouges- good.
Cheek tearing- Life or death that will not stop someone. Pain, yes; but it's not debilitating.
Ear Ripping- It hurts, but I've personally seen someone get their ear half ripped off, finish a fight, then go to the hospital... Not a fight-ender.
Throat crushing- Hard to do unless you're stomping a throat... or are we talking about trying a 'non-consensual sex choke' ?...


In a SD situation, Space is Life... Punch people hard and fast, kick them in the groin. Learn to wrestle so you can GET UP. Taking a fight to the ground is stupid as hell.
If your life is in danger, Ending the fight is #1... How doesn't matter(winning or running, doesn't matter), but there's no way in hell I'm going to practice things that won't END a fight... Causing pain isn't good enough.
Go at the eyes, Knock them out, or choke them out... there are no other options.
This is Self Defense–– If you get jumped, get up, get back, and get out. Defending yourself with 'damage' gimmick style self defense moves can prove dangerous in Close quarters–– Primary concern should be to MAKE SPACE...


Don't take this as me disrespecting you, Mr Lauinger. Just differing opinions/viewpoints of what should be of primary concern in a self defense situation.


As far as fitness- It will be HARD to find a better workout than Boxing/Muay Thai and/or wrestling. There's a reason that I'll pick a College-Wrestler any-day over 99% of the people out there in a fight. They have conditioning that is second to none...
Brave men tell the truth. A wise man's tools are analogies and puzzles.
RonLauinger
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Posted: 2/3/2010 10:19:46 AM
[Last Edit: 2/3/2010 11:02:20 AM by RonLauinger]
Originally Posted By darktide:

Originally Posted By RonLauinger:

Your targets should be:
Groin ripping
Eye gouging
cheeck tearing
ear ripping
throat crushing
bitting
etc..

If you are grappling with someone, why not reach down and grap his jewels and YANK them off or
reach around and gouge his eyes out. Remember, he is trying to kill you. Your job is to stop him
by any means neccessary. THERE ARE NO RULES

Ever try to 'grab' someone's groin wearing even moderately jeans? Not going to happen, bud. Better to just Beat the hell out of them then try to "yank" them...

Eye gouges- good.
Cheek tearing- Life or death that will not stop someone. Pain, yes; but it's not debilitating.
Ear Ripping- It hurts, but I've personally seen someone get their ear half ripped off, finish a fight, then go to the hospital... Not a fight-ender.
Throat crushing- Hard to do unless you're stomping a throat... or are we talking about trying a 'non-consensual sex choke' ?...


In a SD situation, Space is Life... Punch people hard and fast, kick them in the groin. Learn to wrestle so you can GET UP. Taking a fight to the ground is stupid as hell.
If your life is in danger, Ending the fight is #1... How doesn't matter(winning or running, doesn't matter), but there's no way in hell I'm going to practice things that won't END a fight... Causing pain isn't good enough.
Go at the eyes, Knock them out, or choke them out... there are no other options.
This is Self Defense–– If you get jumped, get up, get back, and get out. Defending yourself with 'damage' gimmick style self defense moves can prove dangerous in Close quarters–– Primary concern should be to MAKE SPACE...


Don't take this as me disrespecting you, Mr Lauinger. Just differing opinions/viewpoints of what should be of primary concern in a self defense situation.


As far as fitness- It will be HARD to find a better workout than Boxing/Muay Thai and/or wrestling. There's a reason that I'll pick a College-Wrestler any-day over 99% of the people out there in a fight. They have conditioning that is second to none...



Never,,
When your life is threatened, do everything you can.Going for the eyes and throat may not stop someone,, but may give you time to get away,, Same thing with going for the cheeks and/or ears, it may not stop the fight, but if it is a target that is available, and by tearing at them gives you the oportunity to do something else, WHY NOT. Attacking and ripping off body parts also has a psychological effect on some attackers.

A guy wearing jeans and you go for their jewels,, yeah, if you can grab them, great,, if not, great, JUST SMASH THEM, More and more guys are wearing sweats these days,, especially on warmer days,, or they are wearing shorts. Again, it is a target.

I have seen so many guys get hit by fists that simply stand there that I don't recommend just standing there and trying to hit someone who is trying to kill you. Especially if you carry a firearm or edged weapon. Hitting a head is much like hitting a brick wall. If you shatter your own hand in the fight, that will greatly reduce your effectiveness during the fight. Also, if attacker comes into you, because of past training, you may not have enough 'distance' to hit or kick. He/she may have already grabbed onto you. Your hands are free to do something and hitting may just not be the best option,, but tearing, biting, eye gouging, kneeing, etc.... may get attacker off you long enough so you can strike with elbows, palms, hammer fists, back hands, more knees, etc.. (if your are trained to use these tools)

Hitting is actually an art form. It takes time to learn to hit. It takes speed and power to actually hit someone and make it hurt. Same with a kick. I have seen many guys get kicked where it counts and guess what, because of dermination, they keep fighting. Hiting / punching / kicking someone is great if you are young, not injured, strong, quick and have no disabilities that may prevent you from hitting someone,, BUT... what about the senior citizen who can't hit hard enough to hurt a 23 year old,, or the 20 year old college girl who only weighs 110 lbs and her attacker is 250 lbs. Sometiimes hitting just isn't going to work like it does on tv. I've seen some big guys (military and LE) come through that didn't have a clue how to properly hit or kick.

In a real fight,, trying to stop someone by simply using one technnique, or thinking that one dynamic, perfectly executed hit will work is a misconception that hollywood tells. Do what it takes, and once you attack, ATTACK and don't stop until the attacker has stopped. There may be more than one attacker

Most fights end up on the ground,, so why not learn to fight on the ground ? Alot of the MMA guys will tell you that as well. The ground scares alot of guys so that is where they don't want to go there,, but if the odds are that I may go to the ground in a fight, you better believe I will be able to fight there.

There are alot of styles today that focus too much on 'hitting' and 'choking'. These are great in the ring or on the mats,, but on the streets, there are no refs and you shouldn't worry about being disqualified.

When you go and learn, learn as many different styles as you can. Don't just focus on one or two styles, or one or two gyms. Learn as much as you can and remember that having the right mind set is better than having the right technique. The mind set will help you avoid the situation if possible and will help you go home. The techniques only help the mind accomplish it's goals

For endurance,, MMA, MT are both great,, but you may also want to try Crossfit.
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www.LMIinc.com

darktide
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Posted: 2/4/2010 7:35:58 PM

Originally Posted By RonLauinger:

BUT... what about the senior citizen who can't hit hard enough to hurt a 23 year old,, or the 20 year old college girl who only weighs 110 lbs and her attacker is 250 lbs. Sometiimes hitting just isn't going to work like it does on tv.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/7/1/934975/wednesday-notes-dont-bring-a-knife


For argument's sake =)

another argument is my old training Partner was ~110lb 23? y/o college girl, and would beat my 250lb pro-fighter's ass with gusto... but she was an exception, and a pro fighter as well...


Not disagreeing with what you're saying, just saying "it can be done" and providing a bad-ass article... =)

Keep helping people keep themselves safe =)
Brave men tell the truth. A wise man's tools are analogies and puzzles.
RonLauinger
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Posted: 2/5/2010 5:29:34 PM
oh yes, A senior with knowledge and determination is a good thing,, and a surprise to todays
young punks.

I have a friend who just turned 65 and walks with a cane. I feel sorry for the poor sap who
ever tries to take his wallet

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www.LMIinc.com

msprague86
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Posted: 2/9/2010 6:37:54 PM
The School I go to for MMA covers, boxing, Muay Thai, and Brazilian Jui Jitsu. You have to have time and training in all three styles before they will let you fight in your first match. So I would do all three and then have one that you focus on, I personally prefer boxing cause I am a stand-up fighter. I hope that helps answer your question.
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TheWind
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Posted: 2/11/2010 6:14:51 PM
They all work
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DeathMetal
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Posted: 8/3/2010 1:47:08 PM
[Last Edit: 8/3/2010 1:48:15 PM by DeathMetal]
I have trained in Muay Thai and ju jitsu for several years and it will work great for street defense, but do not forget eye gouges and crotch shots. Krav Maga will probably give you more practical training for the street. I would like to study it but sadly I do not have a Krav Maga school close by.
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Posted: 8/7/2010 1:42:47 AM
selecting a system and putting all you have into it is imortant. muay thai will give you a well rounded stand up system and develop your kicks. If you LIVE in the gym then you will definitly get exposure to ground fighting techniques such as wrestling ,jiu jitsu, and sambo...stay late, ask questions, and kiss shins... often
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Posted: 8/7/2010 2:11:59 AM
Originally Posted By jimmyhots:
I'm thinking of starting to train in martial arts and am wondering what art I should choose. My main goals are self defense and, secondarily, fitness. Amongst all the great arts out there I've narrowed things down to Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu. I would like to try a striking art and so am leaning towards Muay Thai. However, in a real street fight things often go to the ground, so Jiu-Jitsu, or something like it (e.g. wrestling, Judo, etc.) is probably important to know as well.

Some schools offer MMA, which to my understanding is usually a combo of Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu, or something similar.

Anyone have suggestions as to what they think the best choice is?

JH


Mix in Western Boxing and some blade training and you'd be GTG.

Usagi
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Posted: 8/14/2010 8:49:02 PM
Pick one art (muay thai or bjj or mma) as a primary.

Do at least one of the other two for at least a year - preferably three years.
Get to a point to where you are comfortable in striking range and grappling range - standing and on the ground.
Have a couple of solutions for each of the major bad positions an opponent might put you in (or get into via luck).
Get to a point where you understand angles, distance, timing, and positions.

Groin shots, gouging eyes, etc. are good - unless the other guy has a dominant position. These tactics are NOT a magic wand.

Live practice (sparring) is critical.
TheWind
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Posted: 8/14/2010 9:02:49 PM
LOL don;t bet your life on just dirty tricks, I had a guy slip a kick into my groin in a tournament when I was a greenbelt. Damn that was like 40 years ago. The ref asked if he hit me....nope caught my leg.....I won the match...you never know when you will fight some crazy mfer....with a high toleration of pain or on PCP.
You need good techniques and the mindset to back them up
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You can't see the wind can you? ....But you can feel it and feel it's effects all around you correct? 1GunRunner

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Posted: 8/23/2010 9:05:39 AM
Can anyone here tell me the difference between Japanese Jui Jitsu and BJJ? I have BB's in Hawaiian Kajukenbo and Japanese Jui Jitsu. I'm currently living in Guam and want to start training here. I have found a few BJJ schools, but I havn't had the chance to sit in and see for myself what the style difference is.
TheWind
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Posted: 8/29/2010 6:13:59 PM
The GRandfather befriended a Japanese diplomat. In turn for his acts of friendship he was taught a form of Juijitsui. In turn he modified what he was taught to fit into his needs. THey concentrate on on ground work. I taught a private student of Horians, over a decade ago. He was great on the ground, but had trouble getting an opponent there, I taught him from my style. How to get a guy to the ground, how to use a stick and knife and how to fight more than one opponent.
Juijitsu is a genaric name, as Karate is. There are so many forms of it. The basis of the origional forms was nage wasa, throwing techniques. On the Japanese battlefield it was honorable combat, samuari v. samurai. It was harder to strike through your opponents armour than to throw him and force him to land on his neck. A broken neck ends a fight. Arts as Akido and Hapkido are derivatives of Jujistsu, both coming from Daito-Ryu Akijitsui.
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You can't see the wind can you? ....But you can feel it and feel it's effects all around you correct? 1GunRunner

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Knees_And_Elbows
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Posted: 9/2/2010 9:53:49 AM
If you look into MT try and find a Kru who is a instructor under Ajarn Chai Sirisute (check the thai boxing association of america TBA website). You will start to notice a trend that most of these instructors are also trained under Erik Paulson for MMA/CSW (Brock Lesnar and other UFC/MMA pro fighters trainer) and Guro Dan Inosanto (Bruce Lee's training partner) for kali/FMA/Silat.

I highly recommend MT as a practical form of stand up self defense. There arent many flashy moves or elaborate blocking methods, its barebones and to the point and you dont need years of training to apply it correctly. That being said, some jiu jitsu/CSW training is invaluable for those times you cant keep the fight standing.

I also highly recommend Kali/Eskrima as a secondary art if you can find an instructor (look for Guro Dan, Doce parese, sayoc, dog brothers instructors). The timing, awareness, and multiple opponent training you pick up from stick/knife sparring is amazing. And most people i know carry a knife for defense, perfect way to learn to actually use it.

The school i train at teaches MT, Kali, Sayoc Kali, and MMA/CSW and has a blend class also strictly for street/self defense applications of the techniques we learn.
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Posted: 9/2/2010 10:43:01 AM
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 10:44:32 AM by TheWind]
Good advice! But be careful of those out there that make claims. I trained with Guro Inosanto a few times. I do not teach those arts as part of his system. I teach as how they have influenced mine. I also trained trianed with Grandmaster Presas...I so liked that guy...he told me. 'what I teach you will fit over your art' He was so right. I was greatly influenced for the better. But many instructors like to over impress with paper. I have only one allocade that matters to me...those I have taught that years later address me as 'Sensei' I teach, if I help you learn to have a better life I a rewarded.
Homeland Security is the American People

You can't see the wind can you? ....But you can feel it and feel it's effects all around you correct? 1GunRunner

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TheWind
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Posted: 9/2/2010 10:43:13 AM
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 10:50:21 AM by TheWind]
Silly computer...it must stutter.....can't waste a post. I was talking on the phone with Larry Hartsell a while after training with him. We wound up talking about who we learned from...mine was Bob Popilock, his was Bruce Lee. But our conversations were the same....not about movies and fights but wisdom passed down...
I saw a newspaper article about and Air Force Sgt in Texas. He had saved the life of a man in a gas station fire. All he care about was that the life was saved, not credit or honors....he was my student, I knew I had trained him right.
Homeland Security is the American People

You can't see the wind can you? ....But you can feel it and feel it's effects all around you correct? 1GunRunner

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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:51:02 PM
Originally Posted By jimmyhots:
I'm thinking of starting to train in martial arts and am wondering what art I should choose. My main goals are self defense and, secondarily, fitness. Amongst all the great arts out there I've narrowed things down to Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu. I would like to try a striking art and so am leaning towards Muay Thai. However, in a real street fight things often go to the ground, so Jiu-Jitsu, or something like it (e.g. wrestling, Judo, etc.) is probably important to know as well.

Some schools offer MMA, which to my understanding is usually a combo of Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu, or something similar.

Anyone have suggestions as to what they think the best choice is?

JH


Several reasons why I'd go with BJJ:

1) When it comes down to it, the fight will likely end on the ground.

2) If you don't want to knock the guys head off, grappling submissions are a great option. For some reason many seem to think every fight is a fight to the death. Most aren't.

3) It takes a long time to become an efficent grappler. The kickboxing comes faster.

I find that BJJ is a great core workout. Kickboxing is great cardio.

The "bite/gouge/etc" crowd has a point, but key is learning the core skills to dominate.
TheWind
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:59:04 PM
I taught a guy that trained with Rorian, one on one....he was great on the ground....but to get the guy there or deal with two....not good....they teach a form that is steeped in mat work....never go to the ground in a street fight, be prepared to , but don;t go there.
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You can't see the wind can you? ....But you can feel it and feel it's effects all around you correct? 1GunRunner

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